Generators Aren't Going To Solve Your Problems if.

...they don't have the capacity to run the equipment they are connected to or you can't afford to run them.

We just had a 7 day, 4 hour long power outage in the area where I live as a result of the tropical storm leftovers of Hurricane Irene.

I've been in full-on Emergency Management mode for much of this time, and time and again, I've heard the same story:

"The generator didn't work when the (well pump, freezer, septic pump, hot water heater) kicked on."

It also gets EXPENSIVE. If you have $300 worth of food in the fridge, and you need to run a generator for 7 days 24/7 to keep it on, it's often cheaper to just call the food a loss and run the generator intermittently.

OK, back to my day job and my emergency management job..it's raining hard again..and it looks like we're headed for the 4th river flood of 2011 - it's never flooded more than twice in a single year since records have been kept..

I was under the impression that a freezer only had to be on about four hours a day to keep the contents frozen.

Is this wrong? Or were you just using it as an example?

Sue

Generators and Gun Safes.....two things where it's usually a good idea to buy a model that's bigger than you think you'll need.

also folks think that a generator is going to allow them a "normal" life when the mains are down.it's for the %100 essential items and not a Hollywood shower and so on---

Use a remote termometer (with cable) to monitor the freezer's temperature. I can't telly exactly at what temperature things start to spoil, but you should know that the water in the food will start to thaw well before the temperature reaches 0c/32f. It's not an immediate concern, but if the food is allowed to reach 0c/32f it really should be eaten as fast as you can, not stored for months and months after the ordeal is over. Ideally, it should be thawed and eaten right away. In a less perfect world you accept a degradation of quality and refreeze what you can't eat.


Friend of mine had a tiny deep freezer in the bedroom his bachelor condo (-30c/-22f). That freezer disturbed him in his sleep. If he switched it off for 8 hours the temperature inside would be somewhere warmer than -10c/5f. It is not good for precious high quality meat to have that kind of temperature cycle every night. He used his knowledge of chemistry to mix denaturated alcohol and water to a freezing point of -20c/-4f. About half a gallon was plenty to make sure the freezer never got colder than that during his sleep. Add a timer to switch the freezer off between 11pm and 9am and you also have a bachelor's backup wake-up alarm...

My non-scientific observation is that folks 1. Panic 2. Buy a generator, any generator, 3. Start it up 4. plug things into it until they don't work.

The hardest thing for folks to understand is the need for "surge" power. When things with electric motors start, they demand more current then when running. Sump pumps and refrigerators/freezers are the most common, but some medical devices may also be in this category. You need a generator with the power to handle the "surge" demands as these motors start up.

When I was still using a portable gennie, I was able to keep the fridge and freezer cold enough by simply running one at a time for 4-5 hours, getting cooled down, then switching to the other. Usually (YMMV) a fridge or freezer can hold food at a safe temp for that length of time.

A freezer will stay frozen for from 4 hours to 36 hours without power, it really does vary that much.
The shortest holding time would be for a small front opening unit that is not full, and in warm suroundings.
The longest time would be a large, fully stocked, top opening freezer in a cold place.
And remember that meat, for example is still safe to eat for at least a couple of days after it defrosts.
Most freezers have a "fast freeze" setting, this reduces the temperature below that normally achieved. Use of this control before the power cut will reduce the internal temperature and therefore increase the holding time.

Refrigerators wont normally stay cold for as long.
Perishables should be consumed promptly or discarded if the power is off for more than a few hours, unless of course an unheated area is at a similar temperature to the fridge.

A reasonable sized generator should be able to run a fridge and a freezer.
As the fridge needs near continous power, it might be best to only plan on useing the fridge for perhaps the first 2 days of a long outage.

If preparing in depth for long term power outages it would be worth considering ultra high efficiency freezers and fridges.
They use little power and can be battery powered, with the batteries charged by limited generator running, or from PV modules.
My fridge uses less than 1KWH a week !
That would be a week from a single deep cycle battery, or months from a limited fuel supply used to run a generator for perhaps an hour a day.

That is exceptionally efficient, even the very expensive Liebherr and Miele small larder refrigerators will be rated around 120Kwhrs/year. What type of fridge do you have?

I know that you can operate a Vestfrost SE225 freezer to operate at a fridge with a thermostat controller which will get you around 36KWhrs/year. Enough to be easily powered in sunny weather by something like 60W PV panel/Pure Sine Wave Inverter and Deep cycle battery.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/chest_fridge2.pdf

Also when powering AC motor equipment that use a capacitor start (most refrigerators and freezers) a pure sine wave output on the gennie inverter is a recommended such as the Honda Portable Silent Generator EU20i esp with a butane/propane gas conversion. (the fuel is much easier and safer to store on site than petrol)

I'm just back from a friend's place in southern Maryland (on the Patuxent River near the Bay) where the power was off from Saturday (Irene) to Friday. I spent six days there. We think a small tornado or some other isolated wind event cut the straight-line swath of damage on the roads/utility poles leading out of the neighborhood.

TV cable back on two days later and it was just yesterday (Monday) that cable Internet functioned. The landline telephone still wasn't working when we returned to DC (Day 9 after Irene hit).

They'd had a backup generator (propane-powered) professionally installed a couple years ago after a blizzard. I just e-mailed them to ask precisely what make-model it is. It runs a lot quieter than the portable generators that ran at neighbors' homes (another reason to have earplugs around).

The propane was topped off the day before Irene hit. Six days later, the gauge showed 35% left. That ran the septic pump, well pump, sump pump, fridge-freezer full-time, ceiling fans, lights (too many, in hindsight), just-in-time hot water heater, washer-dryer, laptop computers, flat-screen TV for one movie each night. Fortunately, the house is on the water and heavily shaded (none of those trees fell, thankfully) so it was comfortable without a/c.

Did not use the stove/oven, microwave or other kitchen appliances other than the coffee maker. We cooked on the gas grill outside. Augmented lights with candle lanterns and other candles (carefully).

At the 35% point of propane storage -- and the roads still impassable to a propane delivery truck -- we began to be more conservative. Filled a huge Coleman x-treme cooler with 40 lbs of ice ($5 at BJ's) and sodas and bottled water to avoid opening the fridge and allowing shutting off the generator more frequently and longer. By the way, this Coleman cooler is one that I happened to have in the back of my Element. I often keep a cooler in there and threw this big one in for this trip - just in case.

We spent an hour at Starbucks in the mornings and evenings to use the Wi-Fi.

My friends now own their own 150-quart Coleman x-treme marine cooler.

Love the backup generator but it is expensive to operate and if the roads are impassable for fuel refill to run it then at some point you'll need to backup the backup if you're not real stingy in its usage.

The biggest bummer of the power outage for us was that the boat lifts didn't work so we couldn't lower the boats back into the water.

So we enjoyed low-tech, unpowered days at the beach. Would have been a lot more unpleasant during July's month-long heat wave.

Man, this is so true.

One of my "acquaintances" posted on Facebook the day before Irene hit: "Hey, I'm going out today to buy a generator. Anyone know a good brand?" Idiot... like there were any left in stock? (this was Virginia Beach)

I wrote back: "Sure! First, what do you plan on running? Second, add up all the running currents from what you want, then take into account the surge power, so add 10-20% on top of that. Then get a lot of fuel and some oil. You're going to have to top both off at least once a day. Then get a chain or something to secure it, since they tend to walk away during disasters."

She did NOT end up buying one.

Your route is generally the one I would want to follow. Have non electrical alternatives available - gas light, coolers, hand tools, solar panels, and just get off the grid.

It occurs to me that we all have a generator handy for small items, at least. It resides within our various motor vehicles and can handle the small stuff.

Generators seem to be an attractive item for theft. They are always getting swiped from RV's parked along our local beach

Just found out my friends' generator is:


Generac Guardian Series 10KW

http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Products/Guardian_Series_10_kW/

Good topic! I picked up my first generator in the mid 90’s after a rather severe and rare ice storm hitting and knocking out the power for 11 days. At the time I had 5 or 6 horses here (only a couple now) and water became an issue fairly fast as it was cold and outdoor troughs froze. I still have that gen as a back-up with a Honda as my primary.

If a major storm or Earthquake hit, I’d save my fuel for mainly the water pump, water heater and recharging as I have a wood stove for heat. I have acreage with a well ventilated shed a good distance from my house and barn that I store around 40 gallons but that wouldn’t go all that far either. I’d probably just use as much frozen and refrigerated food fast and then go to my pantry, especially if I thought I was in for a long-term outage. In a minor storm where power would be restored in a few days then I'd burn the gas on hand and try to save the food.

The just-in-time hot water heater and the Washer-dryer is the problem.. Usually these are huge power sinks typically 7-12KW for the hot water heater and 2-3KW for the washer dryer. So I'm assuming a 20-30KW gen set installation. With such a large gen set just turning over it will consume the propane quite readily without any load.

A much smaller Gen set to cover just electronic and lighting base load will probably be just 300-500W

Energy efficient devices are the way to go;

LED lightbulb 3-10W - Typically a 3 bedroom house - 150W max

Freezer - 30W

Fridge - 15W

TV 80W (can be a huge difference in power draw if you turn down the backlight i.e. 80W for a 40 inch Flat Panel to 200W on full brightness.)

Hi-Fi - 20W

Computer desktop (PC) - 30W + Monitor - 25W

Modem/Router - 15W

Boiling water and cooking can be provided by the direct use of the propane within the propane tank itself. Converting propane gas to electricity is around 25-30% efficient using a generator at the rated maximum load for the generator. It doesn't make sense to then convert the electricity into hot water at 40-60% i.e. if using an electric hot plate cooker ring. The energy in the propane to heat hot water this way would then be about 10-15% efficient. Using a kettle with a heat exchanger base such as Simplex No4 kettle over a propane ring is 80% efficient i.e. will use 1/5 less propane fuel.

For washing clothes a mangle and a clothes line might prove to be useful. It also keeps the ladies a little fitter as well...

since 04/05 I've acquired a small 5cu ft chest freezer, and a Honda 3500w portable...luckily haven't needed to try my plan yet...

which is to switch all the frozen foods from the refrigerator freezer to the chest freezer, and fill extra space with drinking water frozen in 1gal jugs...electronic remote thermometer to monitor interior temps... run generator to maintain temp and recharge car batteries (2) only (for sleeping ventilation and portable TV)...

add the perishable non frozen foods (cold cuts) to one Coleman Extreme with frozen gallon jugs (in 04 this kept 40F temps for 3+ days with occasional opening, IIRC) eat them first....frozen jugs in the other Coleman for cold drinks

agreement with neighbor to power their shallow water well if needed..

propane cooking and kerosene lamps... electric chain saw...good portable drill to install/remove plywood over windows

Interesting AFLM, thanks.

This was their first long-term generator experience since having it installed (and my first generator experience). They did not imagine that the power would be off so long. Or that additional propane deliveries would be impossible until the roads were clear of downed and sagging lines.

It was instructive (for them and me). And encouraging, insofar as any situation involving mild to modest temperatures might play out (didn't need a/c or heat).

1) Next time in a multi-day event, the propane consumption will me monitored more closely. The only imperative is that the septic/sump/well pumps be functioning.

Anything else, including the refrigerator-freezer, were matters of convenience. There are plenty of stores/restaurants nearby and this is a weekend place, we could have come back to our fully-powered DC homes at any time.

2) in the future the road situation won't be evaluated simply in terms of whether the Jeeps (they have two) can navigate but what it means for ingress-egress of emergency vehicles and support services such as propane delivery.

It was the deteriorating road situation (lines began sagging further) that finally caused my friends and their neighbors to lose patience with the power company and local government.

After local officials and media were alerted to the inability of emergency vehicles to access the neighborhood -- a week after Irene came through -- the power company responded swiftly and in sufficient numbers to make substantial progress.

Looking at the specs for the 10KW Generac generator, I can see why it was burning the propane so readily.

@half load (5kW) - 4.73 litres per hr - 405 Kg per week.
@full load (10kW)- 7.31 litres per hr - 626 kg per week.

No load (just turning over) will probably be around 10-15% of full load fuel consumption rate so will consume around 60-90 kg per week. With 35% left after 5 days I would assume that the tank size was in the 150-200 kg range, i.e 300-400 litres in size. That is a lot of propane and would be very expensive to run. Running a heating (cold winter) or cooling system (hot summer) continuously (say 2kW continuous load) would mean that the emergency electrical system (tank+generator) would last around 75-100 hrs or about 3-4 days.

If you power a single 100W incandescent light bulb continuously with this setup using the 10KW Generac generator + full propane tank, the light bulb would burn for about 16-21 days.

If you power a 100W (light output) gas powered lantern it would burn 200kg of propane in around 140 days.

Efficiencies matter and Solar PV makes sense to power low powered highly efficient lighting (LEDs) and electronic devices.

Another tip to keep your freezer cold with no power is to freeze jugs of water in advance. This way you still have the large thermal mass of several gallon milk jugs sized blocks of ice.

I used to sell the big honking generators at HD. People figured they were the end-all solution to a power outage. They don't figure on the noise, which can be pretty loud and annoy the neighbors. They don't take into account fuel and it's cost. They don't take into account maintenance, turning it over once a month, doing some preventative every 3 months. And finally they don't realize that once the generator is placed on a cement pad, and wired into the house by a qualified electrician, it pretty much becomes part of the landscape and isn't moving soon. In fact, in many places, it does actually become part of the house/real estate and must specifically be exclused from any sales.

Had some people complain about the fact they couldn't run all their appliances once we explained the different loads that could be placed on the generator. They figure that the generator will run the entire house more or less indefinately on a load of fuel. People need to read the brochures and plan for the generator they are getting. It's not a small feat to keep one running right.

I lived off of generator power while in the Sinai desert. Two gennies, odd and even, ran 24 on, 24 off. With a squad of troops it was still a pain to keep them fueled, maintained and in good running order. And we had a more or less infinite fuel supply, albeit in 5 gal cans. I can't imagine trying to keep a large gennie fueled and maintained alone. Oh, the gennies were sandbagged in - imagine a 3 sided box - for noise reduction. That was fun to do too.

I solved the fuel problem in my IL days by having a generac natural gas fired 10KW beast installed with automated switching. Had old folks on board who could not tolerate loss of central heat. Now I am less affluent, more mobile, and living im Palm Beach, so i acquired a portable 5KW gasoline machine. Gasoline storage is dangerous and tedious in the amounts necessary for a prolonged outage. I think I will store a modest amount, with a layered defensive plan involving ice chests and camp stoves, charcoal grill and canned food. I worked daily for three years with 5 high-cost propane Onan RV generators, and concluded that propane-fired generators were very clean and convenient to service during their frequent, complex breakdowns.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!get a carbon monoxide alarm! I can't tell you how many people nearly- or did - kill themselves because of the fumes! We had one guy with a CO reading over 700 in his house and he SWORE it wasn't from the generator! BTW our meters have 2 preset alarms. The low one is 35 and the high is 70! his was 700!!!

my 2KW rund my fridge, my CPAP machine, a few lights, and can run the furnace (all it needs to do is open the gas valve - we have steam, so no pumps/fans)

That's all we NEED - that said, I'm thinking of putting in a 10-14KW whole house unit - we have NG to the house, and along with the portable as a 2nd line backup, I should be good. The 10-14Kw unit is more a "it's nice" than a "we need"

I've thought about generators in the past, and have always concluded that I had no real need for one.

In the event of an extended power outage during a disaster, what do I need that requires electricity? Refridgerator and freezer? - nice, but certainly not a necessity. If the food inside spoils, it wasn't very expensive in the first place anyway. Much less than the cost of a generator. Lights? - you would certainly want some light, but I think several LED flashlights and loads of batteries would be perfectly functional. Washer, dryer, electric cooktop? - Don't need them. Heat? - that would be nice too, assuming the gas to the furnace wasn't disrupted along with the electricity for the fan. But we've got lots of cold weather gear and very good sleeping bags, so we could survive without.

The only thing I can really come up with that would be a necessity is communications. That could be cell phones, or computers/modems/routers/etc. Of course, you are dependant on the infrastructure to support these devices to be intact. HAM radio would be best, but I'm not into that.

So I can only come up with a use for a smallish generator. One big enough to charge cellphones, run a computer for short periods, maybe to power a charger for NiMH spare batteries, etc.

But I don't live in an area that is prone to disasters or has frequent power outages (I have been without power for probably less than 4 hours total over the last 30 years). For those of you that do live in problem areas, what essential things do you use your generator for? I can see if you have long and frequent power outages, you might grow weary of having your refridgerated foods spoil all the time. I'm lucky in that I don't have to deal with that where I live.

I don't live in a problem area but needs are driven by circumstances so here are mine. The two external things that drove my choice to own a moderate sized portable generator are midwest winter storms occasionally take out power and without power we have no heat. Similarly severe weather in warmer months can also take out power with resulting loss of refrigerator and the sump pump.

Generally those are events that can be worked around but my family comes with a built in set of challenges that had to be factored in. My son is on a very, very restricted diet due to Celiacs disease and several food allergies. Going out to eat is pretty much not an option and finding stuff he can eat at the local markets is a challenge. So... the answer is make sure we keep enough of his stuff around and make sure we have the means to make it last. Having the ability to keep the heat on or the basement dry are just very nice side effects due to the size generator I grabbed to meet the "real" need.

Of course being prepared has resulted in no major power losses since we bought the generator. Go Figure!

- Eric

If you live in an area with below freezing winter temperatures, keeping the heat on in your house (if possible) is a big deal. You may do fine with cold weather clothing and sleeping bags, but your pipes will not do so well.

The most common heating set up in older houses in Anchorage is hot water baseboard fed by a gas boiler. Most of these setups require an electric pump to circulate the water. When the power goes off, the heat goes off also. In the part of Anchorage where I used to live (the "Hillside") loosing power was not uncommon, due to requent high winds and lots of trees blowing down. I had a portable generator.

My present home is down on the flats, where power outages still happen, but more rarely. For a variety of reasons, when I moved in here I didn't have a generator. A few years ago, we had a widespread major wind event, with ambient temps in the 0 to 10 F range. Power was off at my house for ~36 hours. I barely managed to keep my pipes from freezing by a combination of desperate measures. We moved our propane patio grill inside (I know, a serious safety issue!) and also used a smaller portable propane tent heater which we moved from room to room. Several of my neighbors were not so lucky, and had pipes break. They had many thousands of dollars of repairs to plumbing, floors and walls. Frozen pipes ain't no joke!

I now have a portable generator stashed away. I also had an electrician wire a switch and "pigtail" onto the furnace. This is a common modification up here, and allows you to throw the switch which isolates your furnace boiler from house power. The pigtail can then be plugged into the generator. If wired correctly, it is a safe set up for running your gas boiler. You only need to run it periodically, just enough to keep the house barely above freezing (not necessarily comfortably warm).

I have a small copper water line that supplies a hose faucet out on the front of the garage at my house. One year I forgot to turn off the water to that line from inside the house and the pipe froze. Luckily I had nothing in the garage that could be damaged by water, but even still...it was not a fun experience. It made a loud kaboom and next thing I knew there was water and ice everywhere in the garage. Then I had to go shut off the line, cut out the pipe, and repair it (which was not fun out in the cold and icy garage).

Anyway, we do have a generator wired into the house. A few of us in the family had them installed back in 1998-99, because of the whole y2k thing. We decided on a diesel unit, as I have a few 1000 gallon tanks of diesel on hand (since I'm in the construction industry). This is what we had it set up to run:

-basement sump pump
-a few hall lights, the kitchen lights, and the ceiling fans in the bedrooms
-a few key 110v outlets: in case I need to power some small appliance
-first and second floor furnace
-our three refrigerators
-the two electric garage door openers
-the water heater
-the washer and dryer
-the kitchen microwave
-the central alarm system* (security/fire/carbon monoxide) *This has a battery backup, but I made sure it would get power anyway.

Off the top of my head, these are things I decided not to wire in after careful consideration:

-Central air> This draws an absurd amount of power and I didn't really feel it necessary with the ceiling fans in the bedrooms.
-Stove> The range top is natural gas, so that can still be used to cook.
-Security Cameras> This has its own backup power supply.
-Modem and Router> This is backed up by its own UPS.
-Main desktop Computer> I didn't want to hook this computer into the dirty generator power, but it does have a UPS that will keep it running for at least 15 minutes in a power failure. Otherwise, I've got a few battery-powered laptops.
-Main cable tv box and main tv> I've got a portable tv and a few portable am/fm radios for information, so I didn't bother.
-Phones> I've still got a self-powered landline, so that doesn't require generator power as long as you have a wired phone plugged in (of which I have two in the house, kitchen and master bedroom).

For me, the most important things to have powered were the sump pump, the furnaces, the refrigerators, the garage doors, and the alarm system. As they tend to cause me to worry if they aren't working. Also important to me was the hot water heater, just because it's so annoying when that goes out.

mine is a convenience...I weathered all previous including the 04 and 05 hurricane seasons without one...the 3500w was a gift from a friend, and cost me $8 for a gasket to rebuild the carburetor

the house is all electric, but over the years have accumulated the hurricane supplies and techniques through lessons learned...multiple propane bottles, ice chests, kerosene lanterns, water storage tanks, propane stoves, etc

before retiring, my daily routine was to get up at 6 and to work by 7...sleeping was a major consideration for me...if you are not a resident of the Gulf Coast, its hard to realize how opressive the heat and humidity can be... the house was built pre air conditioning era with many windows, however most of the windows had been painted shut....I started acquiring battery powered fans prior to the first of the 3 storms in 04...originally I was going to purchase a small window air conditioning unit, but have changed my mind..

my current plan is to run intermittently for two items... battery charger for the 12v batteries (I have a GoalZero 7w panel just in case), and freezer to produce ice for the non frozen perishable foods... I've made arrangements with the neighbors to power their shallow water well if necessary (I covered over my well when I inherited the house).. additionally I quit fighting with a gas powered chain saw and purchased an electric one...the generator makes it usable if necessary

most of the convenience and recreation gadgets are 12v and can be charged by the car's cigarette lighter and the generator is overkill

We live in an area of frequent and often long power outages, and used portable generators for several years, then installed an automatic standby generator. Here are our critical reasons/circuits:

Critical:
1. Sump pump. This automatic pump keeps the basement dry by allowing water to flow into the sump, essentially a 55 gallon drum buried below the basement floor. Without it, the basement will fill with water, destroying everything it touches, e.g. the HVAC system, hot water heater etc etc etc. Not a theoretical threat in our area. The first year we moved in, a storm took out power and a neighbor who did not have a generator ended up with 3 feet of water in her basement. And such a "flood" is usually not covered by your homeowners insurance. To us, this was and IMO is a fully sufficient reason by itself to have a generator.

Other significant reasons:

2. Fridge: food and insulin. Insulin is expensive to replace, especially when I try to keep a minimum 3 month supply on hand.
3. Medical devices: power assist devices for DW so she can move around the house. The techs who installed our automatic standby generator told me that 80% of their installations were due to medical devices needing power.
4. heat and hot water: both gas operated, electricity only to power controls and fan.

Convienence:

5. TV and internet.
6. a few lights here and there

Les, did you ever get the windows open?

I rented a small, old place in SoCal many years ago, and the windows had also been painted shut. No A/C. I called the owner and asked if that was by design, and she said she didn't know they were sealed (she had never lived in it), and gave me permission to open them. It was a real job, but it made a difference in the summer. But I don't know FL, whether it would be worth the effort, with your high humidity.

My neighbor there had a higher-class older home, and he said he would open the low windows on the shady side (they were almost on the ground!) and also the upper-floor ones on the sunny side, and that really helped. His house was a lot cooler than mine, and there was always a breeze flowing through it.

I guess when you could afford to build a nice house in the 'olden days' (aka pre-A/C) you could design for thermal convection.

Sue

Susan...short answer is no...I inherited the house 7 years ago and they were pretty permanent by that time...I have 27 windows installed prior to 1940 (1927 I think) and the glass is pretty fragile, and probably would cause more damage than worth if I forced them...the house is not a true Cracker home, but very similar in some ways... tall ceilings, built on pilings, wide porch, etc...with central heat and air, and a couple of large floor to ceiling windows replaced by jalousie crank out, it's only a problem during prolonged power outages, like the 04 hurricane season.. about 7 days

since retirement, I don't have the need I once did

most of my comments are just to pass on ideas and solutions that have worked for me in the past, or address problems I've encountered

regards

for me, it's the Medical Devices thing - sigh

As to #1 - Yes, yes a thousand times YES. A generator is a backup for critical systems - not a replacement for the mains.

As to #2 - Add to your list ingress of the repair vehicles. At one point, they were evaluating the use of helicopters to get replacement poles in...even that didn't work. They needed bulldozers and land clearing machines just to get started on the multi-day power restoration.

As to your last item:

I'm a "local official" and I was unaware of WHO had no power - we just had a count of "142 customers without power" on their web site.

(I call electric utility:
"Addresses of those without power please?"
"Sorry, we can't provide that information."
"Ummm how do you know it's 142 customers if you don't know who they are?"
"Sorry we can't give more information" )

Then people started CALLING ME..."the power is out" - and that's been where the action lies.

Heaters require electricity, even gas fired ones.
If you don't heat your home, your pipes can freeze.

Where many of us live - no electric = no water.

Our outage from Irene was only about 40 hours, but it was enough to convince my wife that we needed a generator. The previous owner of our home had installed a standby generator, but took it with him when he moved. He did, however, leave the transfer switch meaning that all I need to do is have the electrician move a couple more circuits onto the switch and hook up the new generator.

Our big motivator is the sump pump; mine went about 10 hours unpowered until a neighbor brought his generator over to run it, and it seemed like it ran forever. If our basement had flooded the cost of renovation would have exceed the cost of the generator, and that's not even considering loss of refrigerator/freezer contents. We seldom lose power, but it will only take one or two events to make this investment pay off for us.

Ah, RE saying all heaters needing electric - says WHO? My hot water heater doesn't have an electric line even going to it - it's an old fashioned pilot light/mechanical valve water heater - no electric needed

It's true that most gas heaters need electricity, but there are exceptions.

The more modestly priced ones use a piezoelectric lighter and forced air fan, which I assume cuts costs by requiring a less robust heat exchanger. Line power is mandatory for operation.

But there are units (premium cost) that use an old-fashioned pilot light and a heavy duty exchanger. They have forced air fans also, but do not need them to operate. A couple of these units kept my parents' house from freezing after a fire knocked out the main panel. They work.

Gas HEATERS for AIT - I was talking "gas hot water' - my furnace is steam, and the only thing it needs any electric for is to open the main gas valve

It is by your outhouse??

What, I've actually NEVER seen a gas hot water heater that needed electric! Seriously! Steam heat is kinda old, but then again, my house was built in 1947

http://www.lowes.com/pl_Gas+Water+Heater...aters_Pop_Cat_1

Look - not ONE of them has an electric heater

Not an electric heater, an electric igniter. Newer ones are doing away with the pilot light and just igniting the big flame from an electric ignitor when needed. Saves the gas wasted by the pilot.

KG2V, you're just not modern enough to have to depend on a noisy, smelly, gas-hog generator!

Poor little guy! *pat,pat*

Sue

Sue,
Recently I've been feeling distinctly 'non modern' - so much going on in my field (computer programming) and a lot of it I just don't like, and I'm feeling seriously old fogy. Call me old fashioned but I don't like HTML5, jQuery, and CSS for interfaces for non web apps

Well, *I* don't even know what that means!

Sue, dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming

A shame, really, it is. At the company where I work we are constantly trying to hire people with A++ skills in HTML5, jQuery and CSS. To give you an idea just how much we want this talent, employees to refer a candidate that is hired will get a bonus in the THOUSANDS of dollars when that candidate hits their three month anniversary.

We also have job openings in project management, art direction, and more. But we don't really train up people - we hire people with skills already in place.

I'm A+++ in rebooting windows servers, can I get a job?

I think that they call it Progress

BTW playing the duck bummaphone in a medieval smock sounds a more appealing past time than Facebook

Surely the Internet is best past its sell by date much like CB radio. It is a little weird that most governments see super fast broadband as a engine for economic prosperity but if the result is a society of mindless zombies like South Korea then living in a communications back water isn't so bad.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perthsh...imperative.html

well, HTML4/XHTML I know, learning 5, I'm OK with CSS (wouldn't call myself an expert) and some experience with jQuery - but you're way too far away

Actually CB radio is still quite useful to see where the traffic backup is.