200 miles from home

We are heading up north early Friday for a few days. One of the what if's that I have always thought about is, how would we get home if there was a major natural disaster (earthquake) that took out the bridges and tunnels on the roads back to home.


Using my scenario that if an earthquake were to hit and take out even one bridge and or a couple of tunnels, your drive home would cut be off completely and you have the below details and options to decide from on how to get home. (see the last paragraph for the main question)


Details:

The highway we will be traveling up is an older 2 lane (with the occasional 4 lanes and passing sections) that traverses north through temperate rain forest then into one of the PNW's longest river canyon / mountain passes that eventually opens up into a semi arid region. The canyon area can see quite a bit of snow in winter.



In the summer, day time temperatures of 100F plus is very common and can last for weeks with little rain...if at all. The current average temperature today is 67F.



The area through the canyon is sparsely populated with only a few villages that only number in the low hundreds of people to a couple of small towns with less than 1000 people. The small towns only have the most basic of stores and gas stations and accommodations are limited.



On the highway route through the canyon, there are 2 crucial (and old) bridges that must crossed along with 5 tunnels and should be noted that neither the bridges nor the tunnels have ever been seismically upgraded. It is a well known fact that the bridges and tunnels are very vulnerable to an even a moderate earthquake. This picture shows a railroad bridge in the foreground. The highway bridge is in the background. Take note, it is suicide to attempt to swim cross that river here...


The only detours are to head back up north and take 2 alternate routes of which the first route is along a very narrow, windy mountain pass that sees snowfall in the tens of feet per year and daytime temperatures of 90F or more. This route has no services, and no towns or villages for over 70 miles in one area.


The second route is over a more modern 4 lane highway that traverses through some of the very rugged terrain which again receives tens of feet of snow in winter and high temperatures in summer. It should be noted that both these alternate routes have bridges that are vulnerable along with the chance of snow and rock slides. This is a much longer route (by having to first head back north and then swing to the east then eventually travel south.)

A few more details:

- On each side of the canyon and river are 2 separate train lines. These tracks also go over bridges and through various tunnels that may or may not be passable.

- The highway tunnels do not go under any water etc and a few of them may be bypassed by hiking/climbing around them one side or the other. Keep in mind that this is extremely steep country and it is not as simple matter of jaunt up and over a hill. That hike/climb around may take some hours.



- Even in the hot summer, water is available from many creeks. Due to the low population, pollution is generally not a problem, however keep in mind that water by nature can have it's own nasties that need to be dealt with.

- Due to the semi arid climate in most of the canyon, finding game or food is a real problem as I wrote above, the area is sparsely populated. That said, there is some small game and also deer, mountain sheep and the odd moose. Once you descend south out of the canyon into the beginnings of the PNW rain forest, your chance of finding edible food increases dramatically.

- Crossing the main river without a proper sized powered boat is suicide...people die every year on this river from not repsecting it's power. That said, if you were to attempt to traverse cross country and get out of the canyon which is not difficult in some areas, you will still need to cross the river at some point. Once out of the canyon and into the valley, the river is wide and fast flowing for any boat unless you are an expert canoeist or kayaker. Even if you were not able to travese the river yourself, this valley leads into a major metropolis and large population are where you may be able to get someone with a proper boat to get you across the river.

If you were caught in this earthquake scenario, and you chose for whatever reason to attempt to walk home (lets leave out the questions of why would you even try? etc) what gear and other resources would you want to have with you? This question is not based on the regular traveler who has usually takes nothing but a cup of coffee in his car, rather the question is for you who travels equipped to survive.

This one is difficult for me to answer on several grounds: One, I have never traveled one hundred miles alone, let alone two. Two, when I travel more than one hundred miles I am in someone else's car so, not including the usual gear the typical American has in their car, what emergency gear we have is what I brought. Three, when I travel by myself outside The Metroplex alone, it is to visit with someone I know so if something did happen to the bridges, my visit got unexpectedly extended.

Jeanette Isabelle

Teslinhiker,
you ever been to Teslin?
What gear? The one I have in the truck.
If my wife & dog are in it, the whole subject is moot.

upgrade your shelter and sleeping supplies

dedicated water filter and transport to redundancy

MRE entrees with heaters for a couple of weeks

alternate transport...mountain bikes with tire repair tools, heavy duty racks and panniers...bike rack

upgrade your travel clothing, footwear

redefine or reconfigure your GHB packs if necessary...I assume you have minimum of water/first aid/navigation/fire making equipment already on board...expect trekking accidents..additional elastic wrap, foot powder etc

long gun like Savage 24C .22lr over 20ga (slugs) for foraging and protection

rugged solar array for recharging Nimh cells for LED head and hand held lights....or redundant lithium cells

Kernmantle and precut line for improvised Ranger/SF Swiss seat with locking carabiners, heavy duty leather gloves

have a safe trip

Does the river freeze solidly enough in winter to support walking, skiing, snowmobiling?

In seasons other than Spring flood, is the river floatable by today's large river rafts?

What is your feeling about flying ultralight aircraft home?

It's funny, I got stuck on a bridge for a while on the commute home tonight and thought about having to hoof it if it and the others between work and home were somehow out of service. Of course, my trek would be on relatively level ground, and only about 60 kms, so not nearly the scale of yours.

I'd start by thinking of what you're going to wear.

First off, I'd want REALLY good already broken-in footwear, a REALLY good pair of already broken-in back-ups, and a few pairs of REALLY good socks. Your feet will be your salvation. Take REALLY good care of them! Blister care and moisture protection would be right up there too, as would a repair kit for my footwear, including the socks.

Your clothing will be essential too. It's your first line of protection against the elements. Plan for all possible weather and bring back-ups, including underwear. I'd pack multi-tasking (weather-wise) clothes where possible, to lighten your load. Plan a layering system, and consider "wickability" to help you stay warm and "soakability" to help keep you cool. I like wool and synthetics personally, but I am partial to loose fitting cotton when it gets hot.

Drifting a bit into shelter, a wool poncho retains warmth when wet, and helps protect you from the wind. It's easy to wear and can be used as a blanket, it's fire and heat resistant, and it can make a roof for a lean-to if it's not too wet.

No the river does not freeze. It is too fast and deep.

Yes, large river rafts guided by pros take thrill seekers on a trip down the river. It is highly regulated due to the danger.

An ultralight is out of question for many reasons, chiefly it does not fit in the trunk of the car...

Here is a brief video of the river. It shows how fast the water can flow.

Good answers Bacpacjac. All you suggested is close to what we already carry in the trunk of car. If someone has to walk any significant distance, the proper footwear and clothing is crucial. Depending on the time of year, the requisite temperature range of sleeping bags are also in the trunk. There is a post I made last year here that listed the typical contents that are always in the car trunk. I'll see if I can search for the post and link it here.

Edit: Here is the Car trunk post.. If the above scenario ever came to fruition then having a car trunk of kit to choose from would make it much easier.

Looks like axe country to me. Fire, shelter, travel and signalling could all be dependant on it. I'd throw in a saw too, as well as a sharpening stone.

Cordage will probably find multiple uses as well!

Excellent! I keep mine in waterproof bags to keep them dry. Dry bags are durable, versatile and pretty light.



Awesome! I like redundancies in my essential gear but not my responses. Sorry if I'm being too basic.

Since Hoofin' is the mode,I would have my Best pair of boots(Browning upland bird boots) re-soled before hand,5 pr. Columbia- Heavy Merino wool socks,my shades,1-wool watchcap,1-booniehat-sand,1-merino shemagh-tan/red,Filson wool coat,2-Capilene longsleeve shirts,Filson wool pants,extra pr.of pants(Bel.Congos),5pr. silk boxer briefs,1set of silk long underwear top/bottoms/balaclava/socks/gloves(this set rolls up to about the size of a softball)2 pr. Swiss gaiters,German gauntlet mittens w/trigger finger,Bug juice,chapstick-30spf,3'x5' No see-um netting,Austrian poncho w/wooby,100'paracord,my CS bushman kit,2 fortified DR psk's,Rem.870 w/25rd bandoleer,2-1qt. canteens,c-cups/pouches on a U-belt,Kool-aid,1/2lb. black oolong,1lb. Java estate-fine grd,2-1/2lb.cones of panocha,1/2lb. salt,3lbs Velveeta,1lb.Halvah-marble,2lbs.Medjools-pitted,5-tins brisling sardines,2-tins Skoal,1-slv. Nag Champas,2-pks.pyropops(waterproof m-40's),10-1gal.freezer bags,2-trashbags-40gal.x3ml.,2-pks. hooaahs-All in My, Lowe Alpine pack.,All aprox.35lbs. including what I'm wearing,aside from sidetracking the downed bridges/tunnels,I'd hump the road/RR tracks as much as possible!Roadkill is edible 9 times outa' 10,& If you are on the road or RR tracks,the animals will likely find you!

DELETED due to misunderstanding where the OP was in N. America.

I believe home would be The Teslin Range in British Columbia,a trifle North of Lewiston or Chiliwack for that matter,lol!

The scenario as i understand it is getting 200 miles home from roughly the point one or more bridges or tunnels make the route you drove in impossible. Further, as I understand it, ours no to question why but to suggest how to get home.

So, I would do the STOP thing. The theoretically possible ways to travel are by land, water, or air.

Land:

Perhaps your vehicle is rugged enough to exploit jeep trails, old wagon trails, intact railroad lines, and some cross-country. You may be able to stitch together a reasonable route if you carry detailed maps and have spent time evaluating each link in your intended path.

You will need to carry a lot of fuel, spares, repair tools, etcetera. You will need to plan for a lot of walking if the route proves impossible, the vehicle breaks down irrepairably, etcetera.

Perhaps you can tow one or more ATVs, that should have a greater chance of making an overland journey of this type. The same supply considerations apply.

If you have to walk with a family all or a substantial part of 200 miles in rugged territory, it will take you at least several weeks and likely a couple months. Living off the land will be required. Les, Jac, and others have made gear suggestions. I would suggest adding a lot of snares, a few gill and throw fish nets, a couple of collapsible crawdad traps, and a lot of fish hooks and line. You will need some rope and some climbing gear to get past / over landscape obstacles, with the addition of something that floats people and gear to get past / down water obstacles.

Water.

Following the river seems the most likely way to travel 200 miles with family, even if you mostly walk the banks. If you have a large, whitewater raft designed to travel this kind of river, I would seriously consider using it - even if you have to "line it" downstream along the side of the river much of the time. Gear suggestions remain the same.

Air.

Apparently the ultralights or pocket blimp are out.

I am in Canada, British Columbia to be exact. The route home goes through the Fraser Canyon.

I was thinking the same as I went through the first post, your not going to hike 200 miles unless you do it regularly. Even the mention of the bicycle, your not going to make it 200 miles unless you are already used to riding that far. People who bike and hike 100 miles have to work up to it. Co-worker of min started riding a couple years ago and does urban exploring by continuting when the city bike paths run out but thats still an easy ride compared to the mountains. He goes out 2-3 times a week and so far has worked up to 37 miles before his legs got too weak to pedal. Same with hiking, even if you did long hikes last summer, if you havent done any yet this year your body isn't going to be in shape, you'll not make it even half way.
Sorry to be a downer and negative but I've had to think about this myself as my family farm is 250 miles away so I've had to think realistic. I've been able to travel 20-25 miles in a day with my family, though they are 3 and 5, older kids can do more. I figure in a true life or death situation I could double that but am still no where near the 200-250 miles needed.
You need to look at ways to bug in at the 200 mile from home location. take work laptop and work from there or have plenty of vacation saved up. Make sure your pay is direct deposit and online banking bill pay setup so you can continue to pay utilities on time if needed. Take extra clothes to have some to change into without needing to do laundry each day. Research all the hotels and motels so you don't overstay your welcome at one. You have researched the plan B detours it sounds like, what about plan c and d and e, how far away is the major 4 lane highway which will be repaired first, can you make a 400-500 mile detour to eventually get home?
Vehicle in good shape, tires, belts, hoses, fluids to make an extended detour if needed, do you have a toolkit packed in case you need it. My parents had to replace a brake caliper in a hotel parking lot whn I was in college, dad always took hit tool box so it wasn't too bad to run to the closest auto parts store and swap it out. I carry tools and a tarp to lay on and old clothes to change into should I need them.

Good points Dweste.

The tunnels and the bridges are the choke points. If by chance that you could get past these, most of the canyon country is wide open, albeit mountainous but the elevation is fairly low.

Following the roadway which follows the river is the best bet and although the highway may be unsuitable for vehicles, foot traffic might be ok. That said, there are still a few areas of the highway that hug some narrow spots and rock slides could make the highway completely impassable.

Given that, getting home via land would be impossible and a person would be better off finding refuge in a small town or village if possible.

I'll have to take some pictures on Friday on the way up that will give a better visualization of the area and terrain.

I agree about being in shape. I am in very good shape. I walk to work (15-18 miles) per week and hike on a regular basis. However the thought of walking 200 miles is not something I would ever want to contemplate. In all likelihood (in my lifetime or the next 400-500 years if we go by the earthquake expert guesstimates) this scenario would never occur but all the replies here have been interesting thus far.

Also keep in mind, the original intent of the post was to get ideas on what type of gear etc people keep on hand in the likelihood that they had to walk any distance on foot.

I agree that hiking that distance would be a tremendous challenge. Whether you bug-in or try to keep going, fatigue, weather and general biological necessity are going to force you to take shelter along the way. I'd make sure you've got good solid basics for that. Tent, groundsheet, tarp, rope, pegs/stakes, etc. A repair kit, shovel and mallet would also be in my kit. You could improvise but I prefer that to be Plan B and Plan A to be more dependable. The longer the stay and the tougher the environment, the beefier the gear.

I didn't make it very clear, the bike comment was for a push along pack mule ala "Comrade Trahn on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, just a little west of the scenic Mu Gia pass photos" for the added equipment you would need for a 200mile trek

As a simple earthquake event, you're not alone, civilization hasn't collapsed and disaster relief will consist of authorities collecting resources to ensure survival of all and reopening access somehow. You might get helicoptered out of a stretch of road that's isolated by bridge collapse or landslide at either end. Or high-lined over the river or something. But there would be rescue. Eventually. Your long-term survival isn't completely dependent on your own resources though getting back to work on time won't be a factor for your rescuers.
You mostly need the ability to wait it out and deal with your family and others who might be stuck with you but who were dressed and supplied for the beach they were heading for on their vacation.

This situation appears to me to be one where you'll have to take up temporary residence wherever you are until the damage is repaired. That river looks to be a natural barrier with a capital BARRIER!

Maybe you should look at how many places could be used to buy a charter aircraft ride from where you might get stuck to where you need to go? I'd find all the small airports along the route and then make some inquiries as to whether a charter service or someone you know who has an airplane could be retained just in case. (if they are allowed in/out of the area)

Bear in mind that while there may be a canyon airstrip, mountain/canyon flying requires special skills and only a limited assortment of aircraft are compatible with those places.

I'm thinking that backtracking to Lewiston and catching a flight out is vastly preferable to trying to walk 200 miles. Even waiting a month for the flight would be a better choice than walking 200 miles. (Cost is not being considered in my discussion)

I agree with most of the poster here - the river is a truly significant barrier, and it might be worse after an earthquake and during the inevitable aftershocks. Most likely the wisest course will be to hunker down, using the abundant food and comfortable camping gear you can carry in the car. This goes double if you are not alone, and have to consider traveling over that terrain with your family.

If alone, consider carefully chosen, lightweight backpacking gear as the core of your outfit. Drive as far as you can in the car and then transition to a mountain/touring bike carrying your gear, which will probably weigh in the neighborhood of forty/fifty pounds including food for two weeks.

The bicycle vastly increases your range, if you can get it over the bridges and through or around the tunnels. It is no trick at all to travel 50-70 miles per day with a fully loaded touring bike, so it might be worthwhile to portage around obstacles in two or more stages if you will then reach clear roads or trails.

If that doesn't work, you are down to your backpacking outfit. Keep it small and as light as possible. Again, for a fit, experienced hiker, the distance you will need to trek is perfectly feasible. For sustenance,go with freeze dried stuff, especially since you have abundant water - MREs are way too heavy.

I would spend some time investigating trail networks in the area that might serve as alternatives if the roads are blocked. Google Earth is a fantastic resource here.

Overall, keep your options open. Stock your vehicle with versatile gear. Thee is always the possibility, I take it, that the focal point of the emergency might be at your "away"location and that you might be occupied there for a considerable time.

You might consider looking carefully at the geology of this region, especially with regard to the location of faults and any earthquake history. That information will help you refine possible scenarios.

Again, it is likely that your most reasonable option will be to shelter in place. Opening the transportation arteries will be a fairly high priority once rescue/recovery efforts are underway.

Whatever happened to "Beam me up, Scotty!"?

Dweste touched on it when he mentioned raft. Seems to me the only way out on your own is via river. White water rafting is something I've never felt the urge to try . . .

Other than that, find a good place for a shelter and set up camp.

This thread reminds me why I carry so much gear and extra food/water when I travel. You never really know where you will be when it hits the fan and you are on your own.

Geez, mate, that scenario is an old grizzly with a sore tooth, and you're asking us how to take its temperature (non-oral thermometer) and come back alive.

Well, maybe that's overstating it a bit.

200 miles is the worst-case scenario, but it's do-able for seasoned backpackers. If it's primarily on established roads, you can cover a good distance each day -- provided you have adequate food and footwear.

You'll probably have to carry extra water in places, unless you are very sure there's accessible water ahead. That adds to your pack weight, and reduces distance travelled per day.

Aside from standard backpacking gear, a few things come to mind.

- Information is going to be hard to come by, but if there is a radio station still transmitting in the area you'll want a small radio to tune in. Same with a cell phone -- if you can get a text out to let family know you're okay, that will relieve a great deal of worry.

- A portable solar option to charge spare batteries for lights and other items may be worthwhile.

- Any quake strong enough to take out tunnels will leave the mountainsides extremely unstable. You may need to cross a landslide or work around it. Some rock scrambling gear and the skill to use it might be a worthwhile option.

(Outside of the parameters posed, though, I have to say that if you are in a relatively stable zone with your vehicle and gear, I think the only real option is to stay put. Someone will be along in due course. Unless there's a town with a pub and air conditioning just over the rise ...)

I agree with unimogbert, an EQ isn't a scenario where you'll have to befriend hostile natives, learn a new language, join the local tribe, fight to the death with the largest in the dominant clan, and marry the native princess to get along and survive in a new world: your new world is defined by the bridges on either side of you, and whether there are points of civilization between those bridges. If you took the essential traveller advice, and left word with someone of where you were going and kept to your itinerary, unless that person is lost in the EQ, someone will be coming to get you, eventually. Alot of someones will also be doing aerial surveys of the roadway and bridges to assess damage and pick up those trapped by structural collapses, eventually. Communities that are cut off will want to be fed, eventually. County commissioners will want to make sure that these people get fed and rescued in this scenario, else they lose in the next election. Aerial rescuers will be looking for cars, bikes, people on foot - they'll be traversing the entire roadway. So stick to the roadway, and make yourself visible. Carry a map - if you can safely walk to the nearest village, or at least walk to see if the bridge is out before that village (most habitable locations tend to be at or near water for some reason), do it - you may see others who are trapped with you, or at least be able to wave at them on the other side of the chasm. If they're organized, they can get you across or point you to an alternate crossing. You won't be alone then.

A 200 mile march over unknown hostile is a fool's errand here. Bring water and food, shelter for warmth, comfortable boots, and changes of socks etc. It would be good to have something visible to lay in the road and mark your location to aerial surveyors, or your direction if you decide to take off and walk. Be prepared for the normal variances in weather and heat/cold. I think a bike would be extremely helpful in covering more road ground quickly - but every foot venturing off the road will decrease your chances of rescue. Make your attempt to reach the nearest civilization, but be prepared to wait.

Good point signaling ... My flight bag has a PLB, Laser flare and signal mirror. Good items for a long road trip.

If you want a true catastrophe scenario from earthquake think of all the trouble that a landslide damming that river could cause! Could create a northern Lake Powell for you to motorboat on :-)

The more I think about it, the more practical pulling a trailer with a jetboat filled with MREs starts to look....just in case.

Good point on the PLB - if you have a PLB or SPOT, activate it. It will fix your initial point of distress with responsible authorities. They may be abundantly busy with other rescues as well, but at least you're assured of being known and getting on their list.

Consider Murphy's law.

I'd wait a week or until I saw search helos before activating the PLB. Less chance of getting lost in the initial chaos. Also lets the authorities handle the more urgent cases first.

Agreed on waiting to activate the PLB, as long as you're equipped to wait it out. Again, my impulse is to stay in place at or near my vehicle, or at or near a place of civilization is its nearby - but in overthinking mode, if you had to cross a river, having a PFD and a rock helmet in the trunk of your car would be small and reasonable equipment with which to attempt what is surely a life-threatening Western river crossing. You can actually participate in some white water rescue training, I did this on the Snoqualmie 30 years ago, basic advice though is lean back, don't try to keep your head above water, and swim like hell at 90 degrees to the current when you hit a break in any rapids. It can be incredibly tough, and you may not make it alone. Weigh your options carefully. Your odds of making it out of the water go way down without a PFD and helmet. Its such a remote possibility, I honestly wouldn't put mine in the trunk for a road trip in this or other remote areas, but in terms of space requirements, its alot less than hauling a boat...

Two other obvious observations - drive as far as you can in the direction you want to go - if you hit an obstruction, you have fuel and you can drive in the opposite direction to see how far you can go there too, then return to the first obstruction if you want to go further in that direction. If you hit an avalanche, you need to assess for stability and further avalanches before crossing. Take your time, make sure, rather than getting buried and trapped in after fall. And I know from experience, crossing an avalanche area with your bike can be an ordeal, so you might lose your transportation if you cross.

Okay, so I thought you were in the wrong COUNTRY!

Actually, your route would be easier than ID/WA. Two hundred miles would probably be doable. The pioneers went 1800 miles, mostly on foot.

Take the same gear you would use for a long hike, with extra socks. That extra pair of boots that was suggested would be good, too. Lots of firemaking stuff, a lot of water purifier tablets or a good-sized pot, a good waterproof poncho and a hat (an attached hood obscures your vision at a bad time). A tarp for shelter, you're going to need some quality rest where you can stretch out.

Stick to the main road whenever possible. That's where the (few) people are, and the road is easier to find if you need to call for help.

Take it easy! The early settlers traveled by oxcart, at two mph (3.2 kph). Perseverance over speed. Stop and rest enough. Stop at the small towns and chat. Be willing to lend a hand along the way. Someone may be driving your way and be willing to take a passenger.

Just remember that if your family is at home, what has happened has happened. They have probably dragged the necessary stuff out of the house (if affected) and are living on your stored food. Killing yourself to get there won't help anything.

Sue

I continue to re-read the thread because it's an interesting challenge. I've planned to hike 40 miles but not 200.
I've only lately hiked as much as 14 miles in a day so I have a little sense of what it might take.

For Susan - note that the *survivors* of those ox trains moved so far and so fast. The non-survivors didn't. There were many non-survivors for various reasons.
The travelling parties also had the benefit of numbers and tools and skills and pre-planning (sometimes poorly) for the journey. They could hunt to supplement food and they chose their travelling season.

Teslinhiker- how many in your party? What ages/condition?
Your 2nd posting suggested that the real question was "how would you hike 200 miles?"

Was that the real question? Or was it more specific such as- 200 miles along the Fraser River from x to y in all seasons while accomodating a 3 and a 5 year old child without use of firearms for subsistence hunting? (or something like that)

I also have been intrigued by this thread and re-read it. So, first of all, thank you for sharing this interesting challenge.

I think Sue has made a key point about the likely speed of travel and the mindset for such a trek. This is more a slow migration, meander thing than a sprint, summit-fever stampede.

To me this raises two areas of concern: first, you are going to have a lot of living to do along the way, and second, endurance and finishing are the primary goals.

You should consider what makes living worthwhile, even fun, for your family and prepare to meet those wants and needs. I imagine many opportunities to teach life lessons to any children; maybe each child will need a lesson plan to consider most days along the way. Morale will be a big deal: a few presents /suprises, especially if a birthday or holiday or two can be anticipated to occur.

Add some stuff aimed at ensuring endurance. Mechanically, spares crucial to walking come to mind; repair tools and supplies for such things make sense. Psychologically, as a leader you may want to set the tone that you are going to get home, it is going to take a while, and needing to relax and take it day by day. Rest days, regularly and whenever butts are dragging, as well as celebrations are going to make sense. Perhaps your spouse could be morale officer.

You are going to want alternate route information for both sides of the river. Hopefully, and I would expect, most of the journey will be boring slogs along intact road or railroad. At each point where that is impossible due to earthquake damage, you want to find a safe way around even if it means backtracking a bit. Plan to make the kids to complain about being bored and tired, not scared.

If not taking the on-the-water option, then the biggest problem would seem to be spots where you must cross the river to get to the road and railroad. In such places, I would take a very hard look at staying on your side of the river instead, even if it means slower going.

Thanks for all the replies. There has certainly been a varied response and makes for interesting reading on every person's perspective.

I'll see if I can answer some of the questions and address some of the comments directly later.

I would like to clarify a couple of general points though. This thought exercise is just that...This scenario is not something I would ever really envisioning to occur yet it gives me something to think about when we drive up that route. Walking 200 hundred miles after any disaster is not going to be anything close to easy and I used this upcoming trip to highlight a very worse case scenario where there is a major obstacle (river and possible tunnel collapse) in your path from getting home.

If this scenario ever played out for real, I know that attempting a 200 mile walk home is not in the cards, we would stay put and seek shelter/help in the nearest town or village. In fact, I would be quite content to stay there as the area is actually quite different then most here envision a canyon highway route and as I mentioned last night or earlier today that I will post some pictures after the drive up.

There a couple of airstrips that I know of. These are of the dirt/field strips where only a small Cessna type plane could comfortably land/take off from. Flying through the canyon proper is an unbelievable experience for the eyes and as I noted earlier, this area is also very wide open and not all that high so most small planes would have no problem.

I agree, this whole area is criss crossed with old logging roads etc and Google Earth is very good tool. Not a week goes by that I don't use it to "explore" new areas.



Again I agree. The kit already in the car trunk makes an unexpected stay much easier. We always have shelter, clothing, food and water. With these needs met, there is not a lot more to really worry about when it is time to stay put and hunker down until help arrives and or conditions improve.

Of course. Non-survivors of various other endeavors didn't move so fast, either. But the people walked with the oxen, and the speed of walking oxen is about 2 mph, mules were a little faster, esp if they wanted to wear them out.

But the biggest killer of the pioneers on the OR/CA trail was disease: cholera (mainly), small pox, the flu, measles, mumps and tuberculosis, caused by having to drink from the water sources contaminated by the travelers ahead. After that was accidents.

Sue

I agree, it is very doable. Using this scenario as an example but without the bridge and tunnel issue, I would not hesitate to start walking if we had to. There is plenty of water available, food may be an issue after about 4-5 few days though..


Cellphone coverage is non-existent. CBC radio is sporadically available in a few spots though.


Not really a problem for lights this time of year. You live further north then I and know how much daylight we enjoy this time of year. Right now it is not getting fully dark until almost 10:00 pm and daylight breaks around 4:30 - 5:00 am. Winter is a whole different story..


I think one of the towns has a pub or two...good idea!

And there is always the chance that you are closer to home than farther. Two hundred miles is a long way, but if you were three-quarters of the way there when disaster struck...

Always caught between Mother Nature and Mr. Murphy.

Sue

Attempting to cross the river in question is suicide..The video I linked to, the water flows at a rate of 200,000,000 gallons (757,082,400 litres) per minute. At 25 miles an hour (40 km), twice the volume of water flows through Hell’s Gate during high water than Niagara Falls.

Now if you were to get about 90 miles downstream into the wide river valley, the river still flows too fast and is too wide to even contemplate swimming, however at this point, crossing on a powerful enough boat is done every day.

2 adults, early and mid 40 years of age. Both in very good shape with extensive long-term wilderness hiking and camping experience in all seasons. Now that I said that and with my luck, next thing you will reading about ole Teslin being lost, cold and hungry and subsequently needed rescue by SAR...



More a blending of questions. The 200 mile walk is the distance between the furtherest north of the canyon route to home. The post I made about 6 above this one explains more on my idea of this topic.

I understand the mortality rate for pioneers along the Oregon Trail in the 1840s was over 30% - as you say, mostly disease and accidents. Of course, there was a 'base line mortality rate' that was experienced by those who didn't migrate, and that rate was probably appreciable.

One thing I have experienced on multi day trips, either climbing or bike touring, is that on about the third day your body shifts gears, so to speak, accommodating to the new regimen, and life becomes more comfortable. Even so, rest days are a good idea. It is a common practice for thru hikers on the Appalachian or Pacific Crest Trails.

More important than the volume of water that flows is the temperature of the water. People swim in the ocean all the time with a tremendous volume of water, NBD. Water in the PNW rivers I've been in has been glacier melt -- it's above freezing. Unless you are dressed for swimming in frigid water, you will not make it across.

Agreed on the rivers and the feasibility of 'crossing' this one - this ain't the Montlake Cut, or even the wide Mississippi. Fraser River valleys and most others in the PNW are cold, snow melt rivers, very cold, very fast, lots of currents, eddies, rapids, numerous hidden snags formed from downed timber. You generally don't swim in them, you sure don't want to fall into them, or wade very far out fishing. You need a PFD and helmet to survive in most enter-the-river-current scenarios out here. Your chances greatly decline without them. My comments were on the lines of "if you had to cross a river" - which I'm not going to do if stuck by avalanche up the Fraser Valley.

I was thinking about the river last night. Someone had mentioned to the effect of what would happen if an earthquake caused a rock slide that closed off the river. This is certainly possible due to the river here threading it's way through the mountains and into some very narrow spots where the river is not that wide. In the linked video, the canyon walls are only about 120' wide...

That potential 200 millions of water per minute water flow would have to go somewhere and take out the land and highway in lower areas close to the river. This would result in a whole new set of problems as the few areas along here where people live (and where you might may be waiting for potential help/rescue of sorts) would be vulnerable as these areas are typically close to the river. If the river was to be obstructed, seeking very high ground would be a priority. In this case, I would think that the higher the better as that much water is going to cover a lot of low land in a very short time span?

That would be another good reason not to just charge north without some information.

Even if you had to go back a ways to a decently populated area, you would be more likely to get some useful information there than from some six-house wide spot in the road.

Hang around, help out, keep your ear to the ground. Information will be important to many people, and it is likely to be disseminated quite quickly once available.

You might even find other people who want to go the same way. And one who knows the area between here and there certainly would be an asset.

Sue

After driving the route home late this afternoon, I realized no matter what gear and experience a person has, this country is simply too rugged and unforgiving to attempt a walk home.

This picture was taken way above the highway that you can barely see as a thin line going left to right just above the railroad tracks in the distance.

As long as the RR tracks or Hwy is there,Walking wouldn't be impossible,It's that Snarling river that really takes one out of our Element,& at the same time that river would provide the necessary hydration to walk out!

I think it would depend on whether it is one of the ways to get back to home and family, or the only way. And our easy familiarity with speeds of 70 mph on the ground and 500 mph in the air grossly affect our thinking of speed/time at 2 mph.

I'm sure you could do it if you had to, but it probably wouldn't be your first choice.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -- Lao-tzu (604 BC - 531 BC)

Sue

I don't buy into giving up.
I would agree that walking home is pretty much your last option and makes trailer with jet-boat look like a sensible item of preparation for a road trip :-)


But consider that someone, several someones likely, in the past explored their way along that route. They didn't have the benefit of road/railways or man-made clearings down near the river. You might have to bushwhack when the road/RR is on the other side of the water but the initial explorers had to thrash the entire way. If the river is crossed frequently by bridges you wouldn't have to walk the whole way without a road even if all the bridges are down.

(that might be an interesting research question- just how DID that routed get explored?)

To me the biggest single issue would be food supply for the distance. Surely the explorers packed supplies on a mule or horse train. And they supplemented with hunting/fishing. While we might have modern clothing, footwear and stoves, we generally don't have 200 miles worth of even lightweight food stashed in our backpacks. Nor do we usually have pack animals to carry it for us.

Late additional thought- it might be a worthy experiment to pick a section and just try it and see what you'd learn. Often there are game trails that only appear after you've spent some time adjusting your vision to those details.

The area was first explored by canoe and a lot of people lost their lives when they tried to navigate the river through the canyon. Later during the Cariboo Gold Rush, 1000's of people died on the same river and in the canyon before a primitive road was punched through. Even today, the highway is often closed due to rockslides, snow, avalanches etc. There is no other road through the canyon and the alternative detours are what I mentioned in the original post.

As for bushwhacking, the steep rugged mountains in this region are covered in thick, nearly impenetrable PNW rain forest growth that makes bushwacking for miles and days a non-starter. Even if you could find an alternative route high above and away from the canyon, year round snow on many mountains poses a whole a whole new set of problems. There are number of old and new logging roads, however my maps and Google Earth seraching of the area do not show any that are interconnected along the whole canyon length.

The more I think about it, the better alternative would be to stay put in one of the villages or head back north into less hostile and more open country where there is a much larger population base with better infrastructure and eventual assistance.

Oh yes, the PNW rainforest changes things.

From the pictures I couldn't get a sense of that density.
I've taken a few hikes in the wet side of Washington and been astonished at the density.

(Posted pictures look about like Colorado which is quite passable under the trees.)

In addition to survival supplies, trade goods might be the thing to have as you'll probably be staying awhile (Unless you decide to buy and bring that jet boat I keep mentioning :-)

Really for that situation, the thing to bring is a well stocked cabin/retreat/bug-out destination further up the river.