Helping your neighbors

Here it goes...

I've been trying to figure out how to post this without it becoming a good vs evil of mankind or ammo vs everything else debate...

Recent world events have made me (and many others) look at their preparations and supplies. I'm happy to report that I'm not doing too badly...

So my thoughts turn to my neighbors. Disregarding the fact that I should be teaching men to fish(prepare)... What can I easily and cheaply start putting away to hand out after our little island of 200 homes get cut off when the bridges fall? Assuming a three to seven day wait period for assistance.

I'm thinking along the lines of ten to twenty goodie bags to be able to hand out that would help others but not cost too much in the way of dollars or space to start compiling.

A 1.5L bottle of water, lighter, roll of TP, tea light, el cheap flashlight, large garbage bag or two.

Or does it make more sense to just focus on expanding my own water storage and purification systems because people will need water more than TP?

I'm sure other people have already had this discussion but I didn't find what I was looking for when I searched.

Looking forward to your collective wisdom and thoughts...

200 homes -- How many people is that? 400 or more? You alone can't stockpile for the entire community. Just keep talking up preps and the need for your communities families and individuals to be prepared in case you get cut off.

Thanks for the reply Russ.

I wasn't thinking about stocking for two hundred houses.
I was thinking more along the lines of what extra stuff can I cheaply pick up while I'm shopping and throw in a rubbermaid and make ten or so people's life a little easier,post event.

If we assumed (dangerous) that the minimun food and water were covered (I know I listed water tho in my first list) what are the next items that people might not have or appreciate?

An AM radio? Tarp? Since we live in the age of Warehouse stores is everyone well stocked on TP and garbage bags? Maybe paper plates and hand cleaner will make a difference to someone.

I'm not trying start Bartertown or stock up on high value stuff to trade, just thinking about what I could potentially have extras on hand of to give away and that would help others.

200 homes, maybe 20 are prepared, another 20 semi prepared and the rest are SOL. Can you provide for 160 homes and the people in them?

Are you better off preparing for your family? I think so. Unless and until there is a mob at the door, what's mine is mine. And I don't/won't stick out as being prepared so that anyone would give me a second look.

For three or four days, most people would be ok. Granted, I don't want to hear the whining and sniveling that would accompany 4 days with no power, but frankly, most people can get by that long on the water in the water heater and what food's in the house. It's after that I worry about.

just some ideas in no particular order

if there are swimming pools available, you might look at a Sawyer .1 micron 5 gal filter kit from Adventure Safety Products
and prepare your loaner kits in 5 gal buckets so they can carry water

the ever popular blue tarp and deck screws... firring strips...roof mastic

Stanley "Yankee screwdriver" on loaner basis to attach said tarp, hammers, nails

mosquito netting or citronella buckets

1 gal cans to be made into charcoal cookers+ small bag of charcoal briquets... arrange group cooking time using available LP grills

demonstrate how to make a floating candle... glass jar 2/3 full of water with 1 inch cooking oil on top, floating wick in small aluminum "boat".....small block of paraffin to make light source

demonstrate how to flush toilets by pouring into bowl not tank

couple of short hose sections to access hot water heater drain spigots

couple of extra 5 day coolers for meds and formula... check out Engel Australia 12v refrigerators (pricey)

log chain w/hooks, and hand saw/chainsaw to remove downed trees blocking access

Clorox and directions to treat water and disinfect surfaces

garden sprayer (no "-cides") to use as shower

best thing is to share your knowledge...we have a problem here in Florida...when Craig Fugate was Emergency Management Director the state and local agencies worked so well in response, people looking for "entitlement" were lining up for their ice, water, and MREs when the wind on the back side of the storms was still blowing 40+

Jenks, first off, I commend you for such generous thinking. We need more people like that in this world.

I think you'll get some good suggestions from others, so let me approach your question from a different angle. I think that potentially the most beneficial thing you could do is help foster better relations among your neighbors. Strangers tend not to be so generous or trusting of one another or cooperative, although a crisis may temporarily short-circuit that instinct.

I think the Japan quake is an excellent example of what can happen even when most of the physical stuff, even critical supplies, are just not available. Granted, there are some definite and unique cultural differences between Japan and us, but still, when people are civil and community-minded, we have seen these communities pull through, even with little to no outside support for quite some time because people spontaneously pulled toghether and also shared what they had instead of hunkering down as individuals. I guess Cairo could be another example of neighbors taking care of neighbors, although in a scarier context of residents discouraging anarchy or thugs from causing trouble.

To share what you have is a wonderful instinct, however, without that social bond in place, in many cases, the gift goes out and maybe never comes back or never gets "paid forward". With a foundation of good relations among neighbors, I think your efforts will be much more appreciated and yield some surprising and surprisingly beneficial results if disaster ever does strike your neck of the woods even if your neighbors weren't really prepared. Good luck with this!

How about:

Extra batteries
Emergency blankets
First Aid Kits
Roll of cordage
Reusable bottle (the cheapest route for this would be to have on hand a supply of empty CLEANED gatorade type bottles)

For yourself, definitely expand your own preps. Others have made some great comments already. Anxious to see how this thread develops.

As you already said, "...teach a man to fish..."

I doubt you can prepare enough to save the masses, unless you are very very rich.

How about buying and distributing a good preparedness / survival book instead? I don't know a good one to recommend because all the books I like are more geared towards wilderness survival. Buying something commercial could get expensive, but you might find free or reduced cost materials from some government disaster preparedness group.

Meet your neighbors, talk to them and get to know them. Then hand them a preparedness book.

I like the way you think, jenks.

In no particular order:

Consider joining your local CERT (http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/), or at least getting trained (for free) if you don't want to join the local team. CERT can provide you with a pre-existing structure to provide assistance until the professional responders get to you, especially if you get some of your neighbors to join as well.

Get trained on first aid and trauma care, and build up your supplies to be able to treat more people.

You can never have too many garbage bags, particularly the large and heavy contractor bags. Too many uses to count. Same with duct tape.

Candles and small, giveaway flashlights. I maintain a stock of fake Photons ("fauxtons"), the ones I like are http://www.dealextreme.com/p/white-flashlight-keychain-22000mcd-10-pack-1100 (no affiliation).

Communications. We recently had a thread about maintaining community communications in the face of disaster.

Food, water, tarps, lumber, gas-powered tools, hand tools, paper plates, cups and plastic utensils -- all are expensive to buy and store in sufficient amounts to help more than a small subset of your neighbors. But if you have more than you need, you may be able to help some.

My thoughts go along the line of buying more (in your case a lot more) of stuff you already need, use or eat. Think about things with a long shelf life.

Rather than just expendables, think about community systems. Maybe good rechargable batteries and a way to recharge them. A generator (gas diesel propane) or solar panels set up with a battery charging system could be handy for a group. If your house was set up with an off-grid system to keep food cold, you could save a lot of your neighbors food if you also had a freezer bigger than you require. $.02

Thanks for the input folks.

I guess a little more background might set the stage a little better...

My neighbourhood is a little different than most.
Two hundred houses, close knit community within a big city.One road in , one road out. Middle class, not a "gated community"
In the hood, there is one small school with 32 of our children in it. They are all the kids of our friends and neighbours. Very close knit group who all bend over backwards to help each other. We know who the cops are and where they live. We know where the bucket heads live. We know where the paramedics live(this house for one).We also know where the elderly and immobile live.If you listen close you can hear the banjos start to play if a strange car drives past three times. I feel lucky to live here. (expect for the banjo music)

Most people have done some prep. Some extensive, some not. Everyone who will listen (and some that won't) has been exposed to lectures and letters.

Most people will get through the first three days. Not comfortably maybe but certainly get through.

The comment on water is a wise one but i think i'm ok there. Rain forest area, water table about 3 feet below ground level, one month stored water at a gallon per day for my family of four, several ways to filter and purify water in case of a long term event. Not much in the way of swimming pools but about half the houses have rain barrels. Not included in that stored water is 7 4gallon Reliance containers specifically sized to be handed out. (One thought i had was to include a bottle of water in the goodie bag with instruction to bring it back empty and i will refill it.)

I'm loving the input but what sparked this whole train of thought of mine was when i repackaged and consolidated my supposed 72 hour kit, i was left with rubber maid bins full of expired rations, aquablox, bottles water of unknown vintage, light sticks,cheap ponchos, hanks and hanks of paracord, matches, a whole bin of cheap one cell flashlights,crappy space blankets,half used right in the rain notebooks and the like.

So i thought to myself, rather than just have bins of spare stuff i should package it as if they were mini kits for other folks. Then i started thinking what else i could add to fill out the kits without breaking the bank or what is left of my storage space.

So if my request and answers seem a little "gearcentric", that is where I'm coming from.

Again, loving the input,thanks!

jenks

Mark-great thanks

Haertag, thanks for the reply.

Most folks have heard me drone on and have learned to fish about as well as they are willing to learn...

I remember there being a cheap earthquake book at REI once that wasn't that bad.

I have worked with the school and in addition to the school supplies each kid has a full on comfort kit and info goes home to the parents twice a year.

Chaos, that is the kind of post i was hoping for, thank you.

But i'm in Canada, so no CERT teams hear. I'm a PCP so i'm OK for first aid training. I've done some structural fire fighting training and light rescue/extracation.

We have Fire living in the community as well as two fire halls. (again, kind of unique area)

Garbage bags, tea light, cheapo flashilghts, that is the kind of stuff i was thinking about

Russ, i like that thought.

If i took my frozen water bottles out of my freezer, i could make space for other peoples' food and plug it into the genny. Most people would be better cooks than the wife or I so i might end up eating better. (Insert evil grin here)

If you're financially able, it would seem to make sense to increase the things you would need to the point where you could hand some out. I wouldn't bag them, I would hand them out individually, depending on need. Someone may have a box of 100 garbage bags, but just need TP. People with young children may not want candles, but really need a flashlight.

Generally speaking, needs are grouped by importance. In an at-home, generally short-term situation, you've got shelter and the need for first aid probably isn't great, so the list would probably go something like this:

1) Fire for heat, cooking or boiling drinking water. Lighters are quick and easy, but strike-anywhere matches can be 'subdivided' into plastic snack bags and spread farther.

1a)With limited burning materials available, a quick, cheap hobo stove would be invaluable: a large tin food can (emptied) and a can opener (church key). It works with a few charcoal briquets, conifer cones, twigs, sticks, construction debris. People often have quite a bit of food in their pantry, but no way to heat/cook it. Being able to provide hobo stoves to a dozen or more families would probably make you close to a god in your neighborhood.

2) Water will often be wasted by people who aren't used to conserving or survival problems. Stored water is great, of course, but clear plastic (polyethylene) tarps fastened along a fence, clothesline or railing and stretched out to drape into a container like a tub or clean garbage can will collect a lot of rainwater that won't need purification under most situations. Consider buying a large clear plastic tarp and cutting it into smaller pieces; a roll 10'x100' for ~$22 would make 20 5x10' rainwater collectors, working day and night when it rains.

3) Sanitation in the home almost always depends on water, but if you don't have drinking water, you often don't have flushing water, either. Using up gasoline for repeated trips to the river for 10 or 20 gallons of water at a time is less than smart. There is a free online book (including drawings and photos) called The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins that is excellent, where all you need is a standard 5-gallon plastic bucket and a $12 clip-on plastic toilet seat/lid. Clip-on toilet seat example. They are often available at local sporting goods stores for a similar price.

4) Food is something you could share, and if things get that bad, the more basic the food, the better. If there is a reliable source of water, some simple hobo stoves and matches, there is nothing wrong with cheap foods like rice, beans, spaghetti and sauces, spices, etc. If people turn up their noses at these things, they obviously aren't hungry enough. Buying bulk is cheaper. Dispense any grains/seeds/nuts into handy-sized sealed bags, then place in a freezer for 10-14 days to kill any insect eggs or larvae, or store with oxygen-absorber packs. If you have the room, you can store them there indefinitely. Some stores sell spices in bulk, too --WAAAAY cheaper, but choose carefully (if you're not much of a cook, ask someone who is).

5) Safety - here is where flashlights fit in. Flashlights need batteries. Sometimes batteries are all that are needed, people have the flashlights.

Also, organization and assistance between neighbors is often under-valued -- a stupid mistake. You know things they don't, so spread the word. They know how to do things you don't, so solicit their help and ask them to teach some basics to get everyone working together.

Sue

Very commendable, Jenks!

I'm not quite as altuistic but do think it's a great idea to help others out as much as possible. As others have suggested, getting to know your neighbours and developing a sense of community is a great first step.

We have about 100 houses in our area, and 10 on our street. We have two, single elderly neighbours that we keep an eye on and try to consider in our preps.

One of the most important things we've done is to make sure they know us. As they get older, dementia becomes more of a possibility. We can't help them if they won't let us, and that's more likely if they don't know us and become afraid of us during an emergency.

Home repairs would be beyond them, so keeping extra tarps, plywood, nails, etc. on-hand makes sense. If public transportation goes down, they won't be able to resupply so storing extra water, food, batteries, etc. makes sense too.

(EDIT: Eldery people tend to have trouble eating properly when they get frail, even when there's food on-hand, so I take a note from hospitals and Meals on Wheels. In the event that I can't get ready to eat meals to them, I keep a few packs of meal replacement drinks, like Boost/Ensure, stored for them. One of them is diabetic so that's the kind I get.)

We've also got walkie talkies for both of thrm, in the event that they need help between regular check-ins. Phones could well be down and I hate to think of what could happen because they had no way to call for help.

Printouts of emergency info such as how to make water safe, food safety during power loss, where to find water in your house, how to sanitize dishes after use, emergency hygiene, etc...

Dollar-store flashlights and radios.

The ability to charge their cellphones, iPods, etc at your place using solar panels.

Back when hurricane Ike took out our neighborhood power for a week we made sure every household had a walkie-talkie. Luckily there are a lot of hunters in our neighborhood and they all had the radios, plus they show up cheap at the local sporting goods store. Anyway, every house had a way to call for emergency help which gave everyone a great deal of comfort. Make sure they keep them on the same station.

-Blast

Are solar chargers for cellphones SPECIFIC to cellphones (and iPod things), or could a solar charger for use in charging a car battery be used?

Sue, electronically challenged to the max

In the same vein as taking care of the elderly, you might want to stock some powdered baby formula and bottles if there are little ones in your tribe. Again, I'm not trying to fan the flames of the breast vs bottle battle. Many people think and prepare as if the breast is the only way to feed a baby. If, god forbid, something happens to that lifeline, formula would be invaluable. A little expensive, yes, but totally worth it in my books to take care of the youngest and weakest amoung us.

I've got a big thing of formula on the list for the next Costco shop... Buddy down the street has a new family member.

And yes bottle vs breast is a very dangerous discussion to have but it has been shown that some mothers stop producing breast milk at times of stress, so the arguement becomes moot at that point.

Sue:

Yes there a many different plugs that fit into what ever electronic device you are trying to power so you do have to pay a little bit of attention. Most solar power chargers will have several adapters tho. A lot of manufacturers have moved to a USB to device cable which simplifies things somewhat. The hand crank charger that came with the eton radio has a USB charging outlet. I can make that work with my Tundra phone, the Ipad or the kids ipods or DSsssss.

Good call Jenks! A lot of people take breast milk for granted. It's the one gap they don't anticipate. You can improvise diapers, wipes, cream, etc. but not infant food. They can only eat breast milk or formula.

There is instant available, and you can even get it in presterilized bottles. Powdered is more complicated (i.e. boiling water, sterile bottles) but cheaper.

I have a solar panel designed to plug into my truck to charge the 12v battery. Keep that charged and then just get chargers designed to plug into a car's 12 volt system. Those are available for cell phones and some laptops. My truck has a standard lighter (optional these days) with two additional accessory jacks.

Jenks,

Maybe the parable of the fishes and loaves works best here. You might want to contribute your spare stuff as the starting point for a central store of goods that could be drawn upon in the event of major event. Have your neighbors contribute to the stores a little bit at time, an extra pack of TP or canned soup or dry milk, etc. Have a defined list of needed items so you don't get the junk people have lying around.

Now, if the logistics of that get out of hand (and it may quickly put a burden on the organizers) instead create a emergency supplies phone chain (or walkie-talkie chain as Blast suggested)so that after an event you could organize an inventory of stuff on hand and also gather information on who needs what. A central spot to take in supplies from those who have for those who don't.

In your situation this might be workable, since everyone there is known by someone else and "outsiders" might not be able to mess up the communal effort.

Obviously this idea isn't simple to plan or execute but given the nature of your community might be a good fit.

Thanks for the tips on the solar chargers, guys!

Charge the car battery and charge the cell phone! Too obvious, Russ, too obvious!

Jenks, you meant a large MULTI-PACK of formula containers, right? Factory-sealed means a lot to a stressed mother, even if a little outdated. Bulk, divided at home, doesn't work here. It's like giving someone a gob of antibiotic ointment on your dirty fingertip.

Sue

Great discussion and so many excellent ideas already. Think all this has been covered to some degree but we're big on redundancy around here....

Handout of things people can do in the situations most likely to occur in your area -- others have already suggested, great idea. The biggest expenditure on this item will be your time. Knowledge that we on this forum now take for granted, such as water from the water heater, water purification, best practices in rigging outside toilet, etc. -- this would be priceless knowledge to someone with no background in this arena.

-- what would be in that handout could be a lengthy thread on its own.


Extra Tools: Might it be a good idea to have extra axes, chain saws, hand saws, heavy-duty extension cords, generator, shovels, hammers, etc. Not everyone has that stuff (especially not in my area).

Refrigeration: If you have the space, a large freezer (hooked to a generator) or extra Coleman coolers (that in the meanwhile you can use to store gear) would be priceless as your neighbors struggle to keep food from spoiling. If all you did was create block ice in your freezer for your neighbors during a power outage, you'd be a hero. You'd save their food and some meds from spoilage.

Water: If you have room for a water tank that can hold a few hundred gallons... Or rain barrels that could

Food: No one is going to starve to death in a week, but a sustained power outage will probably be occasion for a mass cookout. Good to have briquettes on hand or plenty of propane for your gas grill. You could combine your effort to be neighborly with an ongoing charitable effort -- store certain packaged/canned food items in bulk but rotating out to charity (in advance of expiration, of course) and replenishing for emergencies.

Ham radio: Being a licensed operator could be handy. In a crisis, people are hungry for news.


Would be good to initiate some discussions with neighbors now. Among other things I'd inventory what skills your neighbors have. Are there any doctors or nurses? Mechanics? Anyone else with practical skills in a crisis?

Was reminded the other day that one of my dog owner buddies a couple block away is a nurse. Filed that away.....

I've been thinking about this lately, and I've come to the conclusion that most American families have got TONS of stuff crammed into their garages. OK, it's often a big pile of random stuff. But stop to think about it for a minute ... suppose you could get everybody on your block to agree to SHARE collectively all resources that are contained in their garages. I bet you could assemble a lot of answers to basic survival needs.

Sure, this approach doesn't get you past the essential needs for food and water. But it might stop you from needing to collect a bunch of other hardware items.

So the question boils down to this ... just how do your think your neighbors are really going to handle a 1-week disaster? Because chances are that if they decide to pitch in and share with their garage goodies, everybody would do a lot better.

cheers,
Pete #2

If people are in my neighborhood running around looking (looting) for basic necessities, I will do my best to make it look like I have nothing. That's a time when being overly kind could leave you robbed and dead. It all depends though. Your neck of the woods may be different than where I live. I have full confidence that the folks around me could carry out a violent looting spree in a time of desperation.

Sue, are you dissing my fingertips?

Actually, you make a very good point. I was only thinking about my buddy and his new kid but there really is no harm(other than space considerations) of a multipac. Not sure handing a new mom a baggie of formula and saying "trust me" would be a survivable event...

Regarding the baby formula, bear in mind that people will need clean water, possibly bottles and a heat source / sterilization too …. And while you’re about it there is the other end of the baby too ! I’m not trying to make it hard, but formula on its own is only part of the story.

Seems like you already have a great community established, so perhaps what you could work on is building a community response plan to an emergency. Sounds like you have school buildings / community buildings within your neighbourhood, so you could call a community meeting and try and get a few people onboard to help with a neighbourhood plan. You may even be able to raise funds to buy communal facilities like a large generator, emergency blankets, long life food, or giant bottled gas etc items to equip the school as an “evacuation centre” …. You may even find a space that you could stockpile items ?

Russ, do you have one of those small solar panels that is designed to sit on your dashboard? If so, that won't charge your battery, only maintain it from losing it's charge over time. To charge a car battery in a reasonable amount of time (ie, one sunny day) you'll need something stronger, like a 20-30 watt panel or bigger.

-Blast

I would tend more towards overstocking things for myself and family, and then giving away any excess as the need arose. I don't think I'd specifically stock stuff for neighbors. Because I just couldn't afford to. That would cost a phenominal amount of money and require a lot of storage space. I would share what I had, but doing something like buying 17 axes I couldn't use myself so I could give them away just doesn't fit into my way of thinking. Nor would I consider "sharing under threat of force". If someone trys to TAKE what I have by force, no matter how desperate they appear, then that's where I draw the line for being a nice guy.

Haertig:
Good post. I am not independantly wealthy, nor completely altruistic.

My original thinking was more along the lines of; two for me one for you.

What would be the stuff that would benefit others if i had excess. TP? Garbage bags? The discussion has grown from there.

Well, that, and I'm justifying bins of "stuff" that is over and above my needs...

I can't afford 7 extra axes or 4 more chainsaws. In fact, I have a proper chainsaw on my list of wants, but can't drop the money to do it. But if i'm buying a box of orange garbage bags, i can afford to drop a couple into a "communal" bin.

Make sense?

Around here you'll occasionally see red cross shipping containers which I assume contain disaster relief supplies. You could contact them about how to get one for your area or do it yourself. Shipping containers are relatively cheap and very sturdy/secure. It could be placed next to the fire dept., local school, park, etc. Good luck.

Blast -- The Sunlinq 25 Watt panel is stored in the back of my truck. The 25W panel is set up with car jack 12V output. I got a smaller one first and realized that wouldn't do what I needed and was only designed to charge AA batteries. It works, but it's limited.

Don't forget to use a charge controller as well if using a 5-10+ W solar PV panel with an auto SLA battery to prevent damaging overcharge condition.

jenks ... your plan is admirable, but i see one possible downside. If you pass out a dozen "survival gift baskets", you might very well get extra visits from other nosy neighbors demanding that you given them something too. You can't rule that out - if people get desperate. It's quite likely that word would spread that you are "giving stuff away" - and then you could get problems.

I don't think this should stop you from being altruistic. But it might be wise to have a personal plan about who exactly you are going to give these supplies to, and how you might keep it quiet.

Be aware that if you have a local school, very likely the schoolyard might function as a community center in a serious emergency. It would make sense to evacuate wounded people to that location, if hospitals are crowded. So one alternative is for you to take the spare survival gear and get it functioning at the schoolyard (or community center). That way you can help everybody, and there's no claims of personal prejudice.

cheers,
Pete #2

I think the broad answer is that you build community; meet your neighbors, be a good citizen, share knowledge (and tools) and help out.

With regard to keeping things charged, almost everything I have plugs into either USB or 12V car cigarette lighter plugs. I have several 12V to USB adapters. I also have a couple of inverters.

If you rely heavily on rechargeable batteries, make sure you have a charger that runs on 12V. You lose a lot of efficiency (and therefore runtime) when you use an inverter.

Agree that this is best.
Use a large 12 volt battery, charged from a decent sized PV module.
Then charge all small gadgets from this large 12 volt battery by means of in car chargers.
The large battery may be either in a vehicle, or not as prefered.
For regular use a deep cycle battery should be used, but in an emergency vehicle batteries will do.

If a vehicle is being used, then remember that an extra battery may be charged at almost no extra fuel cost, when the vehicle is being driven. This second battery can then be used indoors for lighting or charging cellphones etc.

Exactly. In this America, there's a whole lot of "what about me" and "it's not my problem" mentality. In other words, "I deserve something without needing to work for it."

My personal plans DON'T plan for supplying half the planet. I'm more than willing to share knowledge, or somewhat sustainable resources. Heck, even if I have extras of stuff, they can have it, but I'm not going to intentionally "plan" for extras to get rid of. It's too difficult to decide in advance what will be desperately needed.

Sure, if I have a spare flashlight, they can borrow it. But when those CR123's run out, hey, sorry, you should have your own flashlight buddy.

Want some water? Go grab your water hose and I'll show you how to drain your water heater. Get a bucket too. It's too yucky? OK, well just go thirsty.

Hungry? Let's go after one of those deer in the woods by the freeway. What, it's illegal? OK, well don't come to my BBQ tomorrow night, cuz you might get arrested for eating illegal venison. Or rabbit, or whatever else I can hit (still need to get them better sighted-in, unfortunately no decent ranges by my house!)

I guess a big part of your plan needs to be knowing your community and your neighbours. None of us can predict how people will act in an emergency, especially if things get dire, but we get some important indicators the rest of the time.

It sounds to me, jenks, like you are part of a closeknit community that is building a great sense of cooperation. Will everyone buy-in? Probably not. Should you let that stop you from continuing to try? I don't think so. You don't need to turn your house into a refugee centre but that doesn't seem to be your intention either.

If I was you, I'd keep builing on that sense of community cooperation. I wouldn't want to take on full responsibility for everything and everyone, but rather, keep empowering your neighbours now, when things are calm. You've got buy-in from the school already and that's a great foundation to build on.

As an already outted leader, people will naturally look to you when things go south. Preparing to stay in that role may just give people that extra boost of confidence they need to pull through, just try to ensure that it's not at the expense of you and your family. (I think you've considered that.) It could be a blessing or a curse for you, depending on the scenario, but it sounds to me like you're already setting the stage for people to be more proactive in taking responsibility for themselves. Kudos!

Excellent knowledge base from this post alone. Thanks everyone.

I agree with the posts which recommend the building of the community before the disaster and then sharing knowledge after. If you share anything past the first day or so, it should be tools or mechanisms to make them self sufficient or help them contribute to the long term support of the community. Just having a role and some responsibilities will help them and the community. Your preparation will place you in a leadership role, and they will look to you not just for survival knowledge and guidance, but for leadership in general.

So much for the thread being "gearcentric" lol.
Great points and great discussion.

I totally agree with the posts in regard to building a stronger community. Ours is strong now but can always be better. One thought I had (not gear related) was having a preparedness column in our monthly community newsletter. There was a post somewhere about a schedule for slowly building a kit over a period of time to keeps costs down.

Has anyone done this? Maybe start a new thread and write one by consensus?

Jenks

I suspect most of us have improved our preparedness somewhat slowly over time rather than going out and spending a large sum of money all at once.

There are several aspects to a slow buildup that make sense. Rapid spending all too often makes for relatively poor decisions compared to slower paced spending. You also have the opportunity to buy on sale and take advantage of bargains.

Many of us also improve our preparedness by simply organizing existing gear more quickly and taking other low costs measures - anchoring the hot water heater, taking the mirror off the ceiling, finding the camp stove, etc.

Circumstances vary and we aren't beginning from the same spot. I have always had a fair amount of camping gear that adapts very easily to some sort of emergency/survival situation - if I have it organized and available, that is. Oddly enough, not everyone is like me in that respect.

Prepping is more than going on a spending spree.....

I am sorry, I didn't read carefully enough. In the realm of just gear and supplies:
String and rope (shelter construction and rescue)
Plastic sheeting and shelters
Water purification materials and equipment (Filter, purify and store; bleach, pots for boiling, cloth or coffee filters for filtering)
Enough food for about 1000 calories per person per day (bulk dry or canned storage)
Medications (known needs and treatment for things that arise; have hard copy medical references handy)
Sanitation and cleaning (bleach, alcohol, soap; TP would be nice, but be prepared to improvise)

Shelter, water, health and food; beyond that you will have to scrounge and build. Unless you are storing in a warehouse and you can afford to fill it.

Nice ideas here but unless you know your neighbors real well you might be better off taking your supplies intended for others to your local church.

Reguarding the Ax thing...

Good ones are expensive, some can be had very inexpensively at swapmeets or yard sales if they require some minor work. they might need a new handle(haft) or the edge may need some work. Some smaller sizes like a "boys ax", tomahawk or hatchet could prove invaluable if you need to process wood for fires, make stakes for tarp lines or set poles for a latrine.

My point is you do not need 10-20 of a specific tool, 3-4 of anything when loaned to the right individuals to make something happen is very amazing. if you do get some of the same types some spare handles is also a good idea, as in; "if you break it bring it back so (you or) I can fix it."

Or possibly some bow saws would cover the wood processing.

Very cool topic you brought up. Lots of good responses.

Back to equipment:

If your community does decide to invest in a few axes, saws etc, then spray paint them fluro pink (to make them distinctive) and when the disaster comes hand them out to a specific "work crew" with a leader and a specific task, and then ask for the leader to ensure they are returned, ready for the next assignment.

there are some pretty interesting videos on improvised solar ovens for cooking and water treatment online... some use tires, stuffed with newspaper for insulation, then lined with foil for a parabolic reflector, and a top transparent plate.... others use foil glued to cardboard to reflect to a cooking pot inside a transparent cooking bag...good use for your obsolete space blankets...

Jenks, I just read this and thought of you, and your ETS-grown project:

http://m.dailyastorian.com/mobile/article_b70b2184-74e6-11e0-bd77-001cc4c002e0.html

"A proposal to use shipping containers to store residents’ personal emergency supplies ... The containers could hold residents’ own supplies, such as backpacks containing enough food, water, medicine and clothing to last several days.... Residents would rent space – probably large enough for a five-gallon bucket -- in the containers for $5 a year ... a 20-foot container – half the size that the committee is considering -- would hold 684 buckets with an aisle for access, or 912 buckets with no aisle. Proceeds from the rent could pay for the containers, buckets and some city staff time within five years."

The container sounds like a good idea. There are shortcomings, but it would be a very approachable way for many to people to start to think about survival. Even those who are already prepared could benefit from an off-site storage location.

Of course you would need to secure the container, you don’t want it getting washed away or destroyed during a disaster, or robbed!

You would need a way to ensure everyone gets their own stuff back and the container doesn’t get ransacked when it is opened; that makes me think that a community owned and communally stocked container may be more manageable ?

However offering people a $5 bucket to store personal items could be a nice idea – backup the family photos etc and may raise some cash too for the rest of the project ?

I can see that container/storage idea possibly working in rural areas, not any place near a metropolitan area. (Note the article was talking about Cannon Beach, Oregon.)

The system would not work where I currently live and have lived in the past (suburban and urban areas). When the supplies are actually needed, it would get looted or at least people would try. You'd need a healthy amount of security (including firearms) to protect it. If the rented location is secret, that might be doable. A rented location that's known for storing survival gear, no, I would not store survival gear there. It would likely cause more problems than it would solve.

Also, if the disaster is so bad that you're one of the few people with survival gear, then I can easily imagine a community (including the government) suddenly getting the idea that you should be required (forced) to distribute the items to those in need.

By the way, I'm not sure how it is in other countries, but in America we have storage facilities where you can rent space for whatever you want to put in there. The regular storage facility would still get looted if there is known to be survival gear there. Again, I'm talking about a time of desperation where people are acting substantially less civilized. Your mileage may vary.

A small unit in a neighborhood could be workable. Park it on a centrally located fenced property.

I seriously doubt that any part of the government, federal or local, is going to confiscate the contents unless they're REALLY desperate for a bunch of buckets. Too little contents for the effort.

The main problem with those intermodals is that they are metal and they sweat badly with temperature changes. Using an adhesive to tack some sheets of foam insulation on the walls and ceiling might help. Doing this, people could include larger plastic totes with more supplies. A 20' unit has over 1,000 cubic feet, which would be over a cubic yard per family for a neighborhood group of 30. That's quite a bit of storage room, tightly packed, for survival gear.

Interesting concept.

Sue

In my opinion the best answer to your question is to contribute (goods, time) to a local organization which helps your community. A food panty would be one example though there are more.

Jeanette Isabelle

My neighbor 2 doors down has solved this for himself only, he purchased a 20 foot container and parked it on his property, he uses it to store construction materials and what not. Its not a community shelter though, I suspect some of our neighbors don't like the sight of the container, and I don't have the property layout to replicate his. The neighborhood pool might have the space, but then you have local security issues. I have my own supplies in various parts of my house, my detached garage, and in a detached metal out building - assuming one or more survives, so will some part of my stuff.

The rented storage location is interesting, question I have is access in the event of an emergency: will the attendant be there to let you in their locked gate, is the locked gate self-service, or will they be off, fending for themselves or their family?

At the Red Cross we disperse alot of shelter supplies (cots, blankets, etc) around King County, in dozens of locations - churches, community centers, and some dedicated Red Cross locations. All are reasonably secure, they aren't sitting out with just a padlock between them and whoever wants the contents. Then again, folks are less interested in stealing a bunch of cots and blankets, its not like rolls of copper wire or wiring left in walls - which I hear is already being stolen from Joplin MO this week.

I wonder about this. Would a person who does not have a preparedness mind set know what to do with cords?

Jeanette Isabelle

I would beg to differ. People can have any number of health issues and therefore would be better off going hungry than eating something that would make them worse off. For example, a person may be able to eat the beans but not the spaghetti.

From my observation, there is a higher percentage of preparedness among people with health issues than in the general population. However there is always the possibility that the disaster they are facing also took away or separated them from their preparedness.

Jeanette Isabelle

Very good point. My son has Celiac disease and would be much much worse off if he ate something with with even a minuscule amount of wheat gluten in it. That is one of the main reasons why I started getting equipped since it is highly unlikely that his dietary needs could be safely met without some extra planning on my part.

-Eric

It all comes down th the actual persons. Skills and ingenuity isn't restricted to carpenters or preppers. Some people won't be able to make emergency repairs even with the most well stocked set of tools and materials. Others will do whatever it takes with whatever at hand, surprising everyone including themselves with their ingenuity and creativity.

The way I see it, preparedness is all about taking some elements of chance out of the equation. So you don't just "happen" to have a cord lying around - you deliberately stock lots of it because it is so highly useful.

Same thing with skills and mental preparation. You don't wait until SHTF for occasions to practice your skills and ingenuity, raising the odds that you have what it takes when you need it.

In a SHTF situation you must work with what you have, including the particular members of your community. Some non-preppers will surprise you in a positive way, others will be a huge disappointment. You may not know which is which in advance - but it is a safe bet that at least SOME will be able to make good use of whatever tools and materials at hand.

Anything that you have and don't know how to use becomes a trade item.

Sue

"...there is nothing wrong with cheap foods like rice, beans, spaghetti and sauces, spices, etc. If people turn up their noses at these things, they obviously aren't hungry enough."



I wasn't talking food allergies and health issues, I was talking about people wanting to pick and choose during a survival situation, when they didn't have the sense or foresight to store the foods that they're complaining you aren't providing for them.

Anyone who requires certain types of foods and doesn't keep enough of them on hand to survive for a week or two would seem to indicate a serious lack of survival instincts.

Sue

Or they have not read my entire post.


Jeanette Isabelle

There is interesting psychology surrounding people and food. Allergies aside. You need look no further than the vast array of eating disorders in western society, and top that off with people wanting to try and exert some form of control (choice of food) when a stressful situation, and I suspect there will be some interesting outcomes.

To draw from TV experiences, often in the first day or two people can be a little relaxed, even fussy, about food, but when hunger kicks in and food runs out the situation does change. For example in The Colony(s) they start to catch rats, eat cat food (at least one person anyway), and cockroaches … something which could not have happened on day two no matter what the situation was.

I always remember seeing an interview with a bushman (in Africa) and he was asked what was the most important skill for a hunter, his one word reply “Hunger”.
When the food runs out and we get hungry, we slowly realize that anything edible becomes fair game and even the inedible can be an option. I refer you to some of the early Arctic explorers like USS Jeannette where the crew boiled and ate leather, and even more grim: the fate of The Whale-Ship Essex (on which Moby Disk is loosely based) where the crew were drift in lifeboats for many weeks …

Hey I’m not advocating anything here, just pointing out that being fussy about food is a luxury which most of us can afford; given limited options we can all adapt (allergies permitting); given desperation, anything is possible.

Thanks for the information. I've learned something new today. I share a name with a ship.

Jeanette Isabelle

Why not think of the possible here, instead the impossible?
How I help my neighbore already:
Wildfire burned down her house last summer, she got away with the cloth she wore, her purse and the car.
Everything alse went up in flames.
We took her in, she lives in our daughter's room and now we build her a house on her property.
Having an unexpected house guest for nearly one year is a strain on everything, including relationship.
The moral of the story: get insurance!!
It DOES pay!!

If anyone has had their curiosity piqued by the Essex reference one of the better books on the subject is:

http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Sea-Tragedy-...m=AG56TWVU5XWC2

Worth the $13, I bought mine when it was closer to $24, many libraries have it as loaner for free.

One interesting aspect is that misconceptions about island tribes, and fear of cannibalism, played a big part in making their situation much worse. Which supported my idea that a lot of survival is mental, you are controlled by your fears and assumptions, and knowledge base.