Concern for the dead

Disasters and emergencies may present you with a need to deal with the dead, human and otherwise, for some time before appropriate authorities and responders are available.

How do you prepare? What is appropriate? Does this have implications for your bugging-in or bugging-out gear or supplies?

Toe-Tags/Sharpie?

In the CERT class this is kind of covered in the triage section. Basically you should have a section removed from the wounded (duh), and wrap the body in whatever is available like a sheet. Also write down all available data (time of death, name, etc. etc.) and have someone guard the bodies 24/7 to protect them from looters. Thats assuming a natural disaster type situation where order would be restored rather quickly. I have no clue on something longterm. Would baking soda help keep the flies/smell down?

Do you mean freshly dead (like a triage situation) or coming across bloated corpses?

For the former, probably like LED said. After a day or so... well, then we cross into the second category. Burn or bury, just like they have for centuries. No, it doesn't really affect me much in my plans. I have a shovel already. I have a lighter already. The challenge becomes where (ie, not near my darned water supply!) and how (fuel for burning, how deep for burying).

Or, you know, keep moving. Preferably upwind.

We use a little Vick's Vapo-rub on the upper lip under the nose, or inside the face mask, to deal with the smell of the not so freshly dead.

If it's a long term situation, or you cannot preserve the remains, then you inter them. Down hill /stream. Min of 10 meters/30' from running water.
With as much respect as the situation permits.

When I went through CERT training we spent a lot of time on triage and first aid. While we didn't talk about it in training, the large number of shovels in our equipment trailer speaks eloquently about what we can be expected to do. If we don't have Vick VapoRub in there, well, I'm now on the equipment committee and we will soon.

We aren't a DMORT or a DMAT, but I think we'd do a credible job of helping the experts with unskilled and semi-skilled labor.

PDF booklet put out by International Red Cross: Management of Dead Bodies After Disasters
It's a very worthwhile read.

-Blast

Sobering but just what the doctor ordered. Good job and thanks, Blast.

Thanks, Blast.

Cody Lundin deals with this topic in pp. 274-284 of "When All Hell Breaks Loose."

Thanks, I found the above mentioned pages on Google Books

Interesting the special caution to journalists NOT to call for, or spread hysteria regarding, need for incineration or mass burial of dead bodies to "avoid epidemics".

Having had to deal with a few dead bodies I think you're going to find that hydrated lime comes in handy. It is also handy for dealing with other biological wastes, water treatment, construction, soil stabilization, and mud control.

Lime really helps with the smell and mess. Well limed the corpses tend to stay drier and be far less runny. More mummy, less infernal puddle.

Also, the first thought many have is to put bodies in plastic. This works for a few hours, and can be handy short term, or if you have refrigeration, but the plastic holds in moisture and you can end up with the worse soup imaginable. Wrapped in adsorbent and permeable material the water evaporates and after an initial royal funk, while the insides stew, the smell dissipates as the corpse dries out.

Interesting about the lime. I think that .pdf file above from Red Cross or whatever said lime wasn't of any particular value.

Feeding bodies to hogs might be a viable short-term solution to a relatively small problem, but it could also cause larger problems. Large-scale disasters seem to be where disease crops up on a regular basis -- see what is happening in Haiti right now.

The veterinarian I used to work for said that pigs are probably the biggest source of disease and parasites transmittable to humans after primates. (That's probably why they have been considered one of the top sources of organ donor material for humans, but the disease transmission problem is why it isn't done much, so far. It's also probably the reason why you can't sell feral pig meat in some states.)

"...organisms that are not pathogens in the native host species but which cause disease in other species, in this case, the human recipient." Source

The famous (or infamous) Swine Flu isn't the only thing that can be passed on to humans. There is also Anthrax, Brucellosis, Bovine/Porcine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), Erysipelas, Leptospirosis, Meningitis, various pneumonias, Rabies, Salmonellosis, Cholera, Tuberculosis, Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease, Dengue fever, and a bunch of parasites.

There's always a catch, isn't there?

Sue

Presumably, the pig fodder method of body disposal would complicate the process of identification of the remains and returning them to their NOK. I guess there is a branch of science somewhere devoted to forensic examination of animal waste. They need to make a living, too. ;-)

I don't know for sure why they would say that. Frankly I haven't had time or the energy to read the Red Cross pdf yet. If finishing my reading list is what triggers my death; I will never die.

Just a guess, but generally one of the main concern with the Red Cross is typically disease control. Corpses, contrary to popular belief, and a point likely emphasized by the RC, are not a major source of disease. Using lime to control disease from decomposing corpses is futile because corpses are not a major source of disease. The major source of disease are the infected living. Liming live people is generally frowned upon.

The benefits of lime are, in my experience, primarily aesthetic. The stench of rotting corpses is not dangerous or infectious. People used to think smells carried diseases. The term "malaria" literally means 'bad air'. Which is what they thought caused malaria. The fear of 'sewer gas' is a superstition that has survived into teh modern area.

That said foul smells are IMO not entirely secondary. The cloying smell of a rotting corpse can be literally sickening, even as they are not infectious. Also, In many ways, smells define how we feel and think.

The Red Cross is primarily concerned with keeping people alive. Lime should not be a primary concern. You wouldn't want to displace more vital supplies, food/water/medicine, with lime. That said, as individuals and families, a few sacks of lime would bring some welcome relief from the stench. Even short of dad bodies it is useful. A bit of lime regularly spread over the latrine trenches makes a big difference. A camp that smells sweet is going to be a happier camp and a less stressful environment.

About the lime: my obsessive compulsive disorder drove me back to the Red Cross publication mentioned above to resurrect (sorry) exactly what they said about lime use. It was in the FAQ section at the end of the publication, and as usual with brief replies, raises more questions than it answers. At any rate, I quote:

"4. Is spraying bodies with disinfectant or lime powder useful?

No, it has no effect. It does not hasten decomposition or provide any protection."

I hope this buries (doh!) the issue once and for all. ;-)

You are correct. The issue is now dead.

Sotto - I don't think there is any need to apologize. You didn't do anything wrong. I failed to make it clear why I was advocating keeping some lime around and your question allowed me the opportunity to explain.

Having some experience in the area I think I've got it right. Lime is useful in making the presence of decomposing bodies less offensive. I wouldn't post it if I didn't think I had it right. But I could still be wrong on some level. It wouldn't be the first time I got something wrong. Anyone who comes here and takes posts as written, uncritically, entirely on faith. Is doing themselves a disservice.

In choosing between someone with direct personal experience who has almost 2000 posts on a very good "being prepared" forum, and a government publication, I'll go with the experience everytime.

;-)

Good. We'll let it Rest in Piece(s), then. ;-)

Hey! Whatever became of The Notion,Soylent Green! Standard Disclaimer,for one of a Well-Known Member Here!

&The Most Infamous Disease of All? Malaria!

I guess I'm a bit compulsive about it, but...

1) Red cross isn't governmental.

2) Red cross has substantial hands-on experience dealing with dead people.

3) Bear in mind the difference between these recommendations.

Red cross does not recommend lime because it doesn't really have any benefits to their objective, which is to deal with dead bodies in a way that preserves dignity, makes the bodies decompose as well as making later identification easier. Sickening smell is not considered - bury them according to procedure and the smell is gone. Red cross is one organization that has the capability to organize this work on a large scale.


Art_In_Fl recommends lime because the smell is, frankly, sickening. Not the kind of smell you'd want to have around your house or your camp. Makes your life a bit easier. Not really a priority for red cross or similar relief organizations, but a big difference for you as an individual.


Having a bit lying around is much different than saying it is one of the first things you should be flying into a mass casualty scenario. Hence the, "no, not important" conclusion of the red cross pdf.

Art Definitely Hit the nail on the head! Lime is also used in Concrete/Cement as a Catalyst, for quicker drying times.The smell of Decomposition,Will stay with you for the rest of your Life,Once you've been exposed to it!Lime has been used for Centuries,In this Purpose,& I'm Surprised FEMA,Red Cross,etc. Haven't Suggested it's Usefullness,Especially in the Present Day,with RNA/DNA Testing Capabilities that are so Established!

Doesn't McDs purposely waft that smell into shopping malls.

Man!I must be a Necro-Cannibal,I just ate there Yesterday!:)Hey,You know McD's is Scottish,Right?:)

If I could just interrupt this lightheartedness for a moment to give cudos to the folks who help with this very difficult task. I'm thinking now specifically of the recent tragic events in Indonesia, the Philippines, and elsewhere around the world, and the grief-stricken families.

When I was about 18 or 19 years old, my future father-in-law and I were called upon to hand-dig a grave in a very small country cemetery on his farm in the midwest. It was about January 15th and smack dab in the middle of one of the worst and longest cold snaps on record--consistent 30 below zero F temperatures dropping down to -75 degrees with the windchill. We had to start with axes to chop chunks of frozen earth down through the 36 inch frost layer before we could even begin to use shovels. It was backbreaking labor and took two solid days. There was barely room for us to dig down in the hole with our many layers of clothes on. The wind was howling and it was snowing throughout the process. The whole thing reminded me of a scene from Dr. Zhivago. We barely finished in time for the service.

After the service, I was left alone to fill the hole and generally clean up. Thankfully, I was able to partially refill the hole using the end-loader shovel on my future father-in-law's Massey-Harris tractor. However the last bit had to be done by hand, and I could only partially do that because much of the dirt had refrozen into a solid block of ice.

The graveside service was for a fairly prominent farmer in the area, and I distinctly remember a very large stack of flowers that was left next to the grave as I was finishing up. They were mostly bunches of roses, and when I tried to pick them up to use them to cover the partially filled grave, the frozen blossoms shattered like glass. It was a very poignant reminder of the fragility of life, and the struggles we sometimes face while trying to survive.

We were paid $25 total for our 2 days of work and glad to get it.

Sotto, your description reminds me of reading some old-time, first-person accounts of life and death in the Midwest, when the body was held through winter and buried in spring.

Sue

Looking back, it sure would've been nice to dig that grave in shirt sleeves smelling good warm moist earth and fresh green grass.

This reminds me of an incident a while back when I was excavating a large cliff dwelling in Canyon de Chelly. Like most of the sites of this type, I knew there were more recent Navajo burials and I was concerned about how we would deal with them. My Navajo foreman, a really wonderful and unique individual, also had the same concerns.

When we met for the first time, he straightaway asked me not to excavate a particular room because a young baby, dying during a hard winter freeze, had been buried there "not very long ago." It was the only unfrozen ground available, being bone dry.

I had worked out this marvelous (in my mind, at least) random sampling scheme for excavating the site,and, naturally, this room was on the list. Needless to say, plans were changed.

About all I can add further to this rollicking discussion is to praise the body bag. Being around remains can be very disconcerting, particularly if the end was violent. Placing the body in the bag allows one to get on with the business of transportation and life gets back to normal.

In relatively isolated incidents that have high numbers of dead you can use cold storage to secure bodies, something like a temp controlled trailer is what I have recommended to some agencies during consult work. This will allow for ease of movement, eventual identification, autopsy if required, and the container can be destroyed or cleaned.

For long term, make a reasonable effort to track them and bury them or burn them. In the case of potential crime and eventual investigation burying them would obviously help should they ever need to be recovered but without preservation the time line is going to be rather short.

As for the vicks, I have heard this for years and it seems to be widely believed. However, consider for a second the intended effect of vicks. It is intended to open your sinuses and I find that it actually makes the funk stick with you longer. Throw a mask on and get the work done.

I vaguely remember an incident where the authorities used an artificial ice surface (skating rink or curling rink, I can't remember) as a temporary morgue. It was some sort of natural disaster in high summer. The artificial ice gave the coroner and law enforcement time to identify the victims and release them to families for proper burial.

I seem to recall that various teams in Haiti after the earthquake used Tiger Balm instead of Vicks to mask the smell of death. I can't say I've tried it. I hope I don't ever have to.

EDIT:
This is OT but it may be of interest. The link is to the cards listing the descriptions, effects, and possible identifying information for the recovered remains of people drowned in the sinking of the Titanic. I wonder if the cold, cold Atlantic water slowed decomposition enough to help the officials trying to identify the bodies? At any rate, it is a fascinating read.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/victims.php?angle=1-110

the RN's at the Vets Hospital ER in Minneapolis would put a tiny drop of clove oil on a paper mask,i would go out in the hall------

You can get oil of cloves from Asian grocery stores.

Most drug stores also carry it in the dental dept. for toothaches.

Very interesting, thanks! I'll have to test that on some unspeakably vile task.

Keep lots of the cheapest, most disgusting cigars you can find handy also. Smoke them after leaving the area of decomposition smell. It will kill the smell until you can shower / change clothes.

After working a decomp scene:

Pre-soak your clothing in Coke (not Pepsi, doesn't work except with coke), and add 2 ltrs. to each load of wash.

It isn't perfect, but it seems to help.

Just don't get the black juice from decomp on you if you can. If it does get on your clothes / shoes you might as well trash them. Either the smell never goes away, or I cannot mentally get the smell to go away.

If a fire was involved, all bets are off.........

I think the smell of cigars is worse than decomposition, not to mention the crap thats in cigar smoke, those things are worse than cigarettes.

I've read that hydrogen peroxide, perhaps Oxy-clean, and some of the bio-active enzyme and bacterial cultures used to treat biological spills can be used to clean clothing exposed to liquefied human.

Be careful with the bio-remediation agents as some are capable of digesting cellulose. Use the wrong type, at to high a concentration, for too long, and you could destroy your cotton and cotton blend clothing.

On one of my early jobs we used a commercial enzyme-bacterial brew that went by the name "Alive!" mix with warm water, let set for a time, and spray it on blood, sewage, liquefied crud draining from a dumpster, whatever. It liquefies the semi-solids, paper, eliminated the smell and dissolved many stains so they could be hosed or wet-vacuumed up.

Worked wonders on carpets fouled by domestic animals and post-crime cleanup where blood soaked the carpeting. Spray it on generously, let sit, wet vacuum up, repeat as needed. Use too much too long and it can dissolve the manila fiber backing. Allowing the carpet to loose dimensional stability and wrinkling. Whoops. No biggie; the carpet was toast anyway.

Peroxide and enzyme mixes are often better than the usual go-to agent, bleach. Pour bleach onto a large sewage spill and you get caustic chlorine gas mixed with the stifling pong of the sewage. Not the sort of thing most people were trying for. Bleach works fine on small spills.

Pine-Sol Followed Up with Murphy's oil Soap,Does a Real Good Job of DeCon, For Carcass Crud!

I'll have to get some oil of cloves and use it to deal with my neighbor's cigars. I don't know why he only smokes those suckers when the wind is blowing my way...

I Agree,Cigar smoke smell's like Burning manure,& If someone should ask,Yes,I do know what Burning Manure smell's like!....CIGARS!!!!

Not to be contrary but having lived most of my life in the Mushroom Capital of the World I'm more than familiar with the smell of burning horse manure (cured manure is the growth medium of choice for many mushroom growers). When those piles of curing manure are turned or, heaven forbid, catch fire, you don't want to be downwind of them. I'll take my neighbor's stinky cigars anytime.

Back in the 50's they use to sterilize the soil they combined with the manure with CS gas, or it's commercial equivalent. You really didn't want to be downwind of that operation. Of course, in those pre-OSHA days, no one was too concerned with respiratory safety.

To this day still not a big fan of mushrooms.

Bodies, other than the sentimental aspects of it possibly belonging to a departed love one, are just more dead meat.
That can be a health hazard, and the bodies need to be buried or disposed of in a manner that removes that hazard.

During a possible crisis that resulted in thousands of dead bodies, the old "let the dead bury the dead" might have to be followed.

I should have been more Specific,I had the Cool Job of Burning Human Manure,Whilst Serving in The Middle East! Burning Road Apples is Pleasant,I've eaten Breakfast,Lunch & Dinner,Cooked on a Fire,Created solely from Horse/Mule Dung!Cigar smoke smells like Burning Human Manure,Less the AV Gas!

The joke among cigar smoker is that there is a DIFFERENCE between cheap and expensive cigars. There isn't... they all stink.

Sue

"You must choose between me and your cigar."
--BREACH OF PROMISE CASE, CIRCA 1885.

Open the old cigar-box, get me a Cuba stout,
For things are running crossways, and Maggie and I are out.

We quarrelled about Havanas--we fought o'er a good cheroot,
And I knew she is exacting, and she says I am a brute.

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider a space;
In the soft blue veil of the vapour musing on Maggie's face.

Maggie is pretty to look at--Maggie's a loving lass,
But the prettiest cheeks must wrinkle, the truest of loves must pass.

There's peace in a Larranaga, there's calm in a Henry Clay;
But the best cigar in an hour is finished and thrown away--

Thrown away for another as perfect and ripe and brown--
But I could not throw away Maggie for fear o' the talk o' the town!

Maggie, my wife at fifty--grey and dour and old--
With never another Maggie to purchase for love or gold!

And the light of Days that have Been the dark of the Days that Are,
And Love's torch stinking and stale, like the butt of a dead cigar--

The butt of a dead cigar you are bound to keep in your pocket--
With never a new one to light tho' it's charred and black to the socket!

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider a while.
Here is a mild Manila--there is a wifely smile.

Which is the better portion--bondage bought with a ring,
Or a harem of dusky beauties, fifty tied in a string?

Counsellors cunning and silent--comforters true and tried,
And never a one of the fifty to sneer at a rival bride?

Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close,

This will the fifty give me, asking nought in return,
With only a Suttee's passion--to do their duty and burn.

This will the fifty give me. When they are spent and dead,
Five times other fifties shall be my servants instead.

The furrows of far-off Java, the isles of the Spanish Main,
When they hear my harem is empty will send me my brides again.

I will take no heed to their raiment, nor food for their mouths withal,
So long as the gulls are nesting, so long as the showers fall.

I will scent 'em with best vanilla, with tea will I temper their hides,
And the Moor and the Mormon shall envy who read of the tale of my brides.

For Maggie has written a letter to give me my choice between
The wee little whimpering Love and the great god Nick o' Teen.

And I have been servant of Love for barely a twelvemonth clear,
But I have been Priest of Cabanas a matter of seven year;

And the gloom of my bachelor days is flecked with the cheery light
Of stumps that I burned to Friendship and Pleasure and Work and Fight.

And I turn my eyes to the future that Maggie and I must prove,
But the only light on the marshes is the Will-o'-the-Wisp of Love.

Will it see me safe through my journey or leave me bogged in the mire?
Since a puff of tobacco can cloud it, shall I follow the fitful fire?

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider anew--
Old friends, and who is Maggie that I should abandon you?

A million surplus Maggies are willing to bear the yoke;
And a woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke.

Light me another Cuba--I hold to my first-sworn vows.
If Maggie will have no rival, I'll have no Maggie for Spouse!




-THE END-
Rudyard Kipling's poem: The Betrothed