One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival

http://onesecondafter.com/

Anyone else here read this book? It came out in March.

What do you think of the plausibility of the EMP as it plays out?


The book becomes so grim, so fast. I found it more disturbing that Cormac McCarthy's "The Road." And more interesting because One Second After focuses on a community as well as a particular family.

Makes me think some things one may not want to survive.

No doubt this EMP scenario is very enticing to America's enemies. I lost sleep over this book during the last 80 pages or so.

I hope those who say the EMP effect would not be as thorough as the novel plays it, are correct.

By the way, the book is not as artful as The Road, not by a long shot. Mediocre writing and editing, but that did not distract me from the compelling premise and plot developments.

Creepy.

After watching the Foxnews video on the link website, where on earth does Mr Forstchen get the idea that the USA would be taken back 300-400 years considering electricity generation hasn't been in widespread use since the the early 1900s which was a good 60 years after the invention of the electric filament light bulb back in 1835 by James Bowman Lindsay.

Some expert.

Apperently 90% of all Americans could be dead after the attack according to Mr Forstchen, what he failed to mention was that the other 10% just went to bed early and started to learn the piano.

The reason why "The Road" is a better read is because it's author, Cormac McCarthy wasn't writing a post apocalyptic survival guide. Like many great writers, he uses scenarios to write about the human condition.

McCarthy isn't really writing about the end of the world from a practical POV, the problem with books like "One Second after" and "Patriots" is the limited imagination of the writers, they do write from only the practical POV.

There's another post apocalyptic book out, can't recall the title but it's premise is that a biological agent is released that eats hydrocarbons, it's supposed to be used to clean up oil spills but it starts attacking every plastic product and hydrocarbon byproduct in it's path. Similar results as the EMP scenario. There's no real story, just a collection of anecdotal info that the authors obviously collected along the way of doing whatever research they did. There are parts of it that seem specifically contrived just to allow the authors to show off some obscure bit of trivia, like how some fighter pilots choose whether to eat before a long flight...it's interesting in it's own way but you can't sustain a story with trivia.

Most of the post apocalyptic stuff written nowadays reminds me of the really bad early Ian Fleming stuff, where the descriptions of spy stuff carried by Bond, James Bond and his predilection for shaken martinis substituted for plot and character.

One Second After is definetly not an 'apocalyptic survival guide' that's for darn sure. I thought the book was very well written compared to many many many other similar books out there. Was it 100% accurate on what would happen with an EMP attack... probably not. Was it pretty accurate as far as looting and lawlessness I think Katrina and other disasters has proved his views pretty darn correct. The big thing the book did was make YOU think about yourself being prepared w/out food or water or any gov aid.

Also, I don't even think you can compare it to "The Road" and FOR SURE not to "Patriots"... that book was horrid and was def. trying to pass itself off as a "survival manual for the 21st century".

I did research the author and he does know a good bit about history and war history so his battle `scenes`, triage and lawlessness are probably pretty darn accurate.

Anyway, it was a good read compared to the other ones out there.

Haha, I just found this review of Patriots.


PATRIOTS by James Rawles.
I have only been able to force myself to read 50 Pages or so, so far. MAYBE afer I have read more, I'll change my mind. BUT so far, this book seems written by someone who wants to bragg about what their survival group has accomplished, or has aspirations of accomplishing, AND.... promoting different products. I had to put down the book after reading "THANK GOD FOR MY EMERGENCY WAR SURGERY BOOK"

You forgot the comma in Mr. Rawles' name...;^)

He spells his name, James Wesley, Rawles.

And if you want to see him selling stuff, check out his survival blog, you can buy a retreat in Idaho or if you're a youngish woman you can audition to be his next wife...

His current wife is terminally ill and is, honest to god, conducting an online search for "Jim's" new wife via his website. No word if the dowry has to include rolls of nickels...

one last thought, I'm sure that the author of "one second after" has all the best intentions but anyone who claims that Newt Gingrich is brilliant is someone best avoided in my opinion.

If I based reading choices on authors' views of other people then I'd miss out on a lot of good books.

If I paid much attention to what Hollywood actors say about political figures it would be difficult, for me, to watch most films.

So, for me, it is better to judge the work itself.

Which in this case is not a great literary masterpiece but is a provocative take on an interesting subject matter.

Coincidentally, check out this article in today's Wall Street Journal.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574318630585925804.html


* JULY 31, 2009

Hollywood Destroys the World

The new wave of disaster movies and TV shows isn’t about staving off the apocalypse. It’s what happens afterwards that counts. Viggo Mortensen versus the cannibals.


A flood of postapocalyptic stories is now headed toward movie theaters and TV screens: Expect to see characters fending off cannibals, picking up day-to-day survival techniques and struggling to maintain their humanity amid the ruins.

Previous waves of pop-culture disaster, from the Atomic Age paranoia of “War of the Worlds” to Watergate-era flicks such as “The Towering Inferno,” have depicted calamity in stunning detail. Many of the new projects, however, actually skip the spectacle of doomsday. Instead, they’re more fixed on what goes down in the aftermath.

You make a good point Dagny, I was basing my comments on the one second author on what I read on his own website. He has co-written books with Mr. Gingrich and praises him on that same website. I've had the misfortune of interacting with Mr. Gingrich while attempting to photograph him, been verbally and physically abused by his security staff on his orders and think very little of him either personally or politically and anyone who claims him to be genius is as I wrote, someone who's writings I intend to avoid. If I miss out on some brilliant writing I have only myself and my experiences to blame.

To each their own...

Remember and stay indoors after the Event for the quiz show.

Wow

I tried to read his blog but it's so disorganized and all over the place I never go there.

I believe Doris Day got it right.

Que se ra, se ra...

Not having read the book I can't comment on it. However, I am more than a little amused by all the EMP (or any other favorite cataclysm of choice) TEOTWAWKI scenarios.

Mankind has gone through a lot during the past few millenia and we're still here. We could live without electricity for a while if we had to. In fact, a lot of people do right now as we speak. It might not be comfortable but we can make it. Even if our entire infrastructure were destroyed somehow we could still restore EVERYTHING. We've created it and we could do it again if we had to. We could probably survive even the worst imaginable scenarios. Maybe not you or me, maybe just a few, but enough of us to continue our existence.

In any case, whatever might happen, the ones that will ultimately ensure the survival of humanity are not going to be a band of survivalists holed up in their mountain cabins opening fire at anyone approaching their retreat but rather people from all walks of life uniting for the common good and rebuilding TWAWKI. Just the way it's always been done throughout history.

Unless you've exhausted all the Tolstoy, Homer, Dickens, Aesop, Vonnegut, Norman Mailer, Jones and all the masterpieces of world literature I see little need to pollute one's mind reading some second-rate wannabe-survivalist novels. Not to sound cynical but time is too short and looking after one's mental hygiene is important these days (too much TV! ).

Also, getting too much into all this survivalist mindset is bad because if anything catastrophic does happen, you will probably do as you are conditioned to (deliberately or unconsciously). Like grabbing the guns and running to the hills, which might really be the worst option of all.

An exclusive diet of TEOTWAWKI is not advisable and would be very depressing, but there are some books in this genre worth reading -- even if Tolstoy, his masterpiece literature peers or some other first rate author didn't write them. For instance, I will confess to thoroughly enjoying Steven King's "The Stand." Crass as that may be. And The Stand was further motivation to be very attentive at pandemic planning meetings. On 9/11, a Tom Clancy novel came to mind. Wish some more people in certain jobs had read it. Whatever it takes.

I don't think TEOTWAWKI books or films necessarily instill or reinforce a survivalist mindset. Survivalists aren't the only ones reading them.

The bleaker fiction, like Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" and Albert Camus' "The Plague" (a high school class read) make me ponder the merits of stocking up on only one item: cyanide.

EMP - the subject of this book - is beyond simply losing power for awhile. EMP during nuclear weapons tests has permanently destroyed electronic devices and could have long-term consequences for power grids. That's why governments around the world are so interested in defending against it and the bad guys are intrigued by the offensive potential.

My biggest takeaway from One Second After, other than the need for good editors, was that in a non-apocalyptic disaster that could result in an extended power outage, there is extreme peril for people reliant on powered medical technology and medication that requires refrigeration.

One of the main characters was diabetic. And the consequences at a nursing home and hospitals were explored, as well.

My dog is presently being treated with a medication that must be refrigerated. She wouldn't die without it but her rump would itch for a while longer. Who needs that in a crisis?

Tolstoy, Homer, Dickens, et.al. didn't have a clue about that modern reality (EMP, nor my dog's rump) and if the others you mentioned had written about EMP I'd be pleased to read their take on it.

Lesser authors not blessed with the literary skills of the classics, can still be thought-provoking on subjects - such as EMP - that are worthy enough to warrant congressional hearings and scientific studies.

That said, One Second After, is second-rate quality. The original point of the thread was: is his EMP scenario plausible were an EMP to occur?

And now I will go back to reading The Secret Life of Bees.

Honey bees, not killer bees.

;-)

EXACTLY!

I did not have a "FULL" grasp on all the things needing "electricity"... to survive. We think lights, fridge, maybe air for breather... but WOW tons more stuff/medical related/security etc.. Book really illustrated that, and just how MOST people are SO reliant on power for EVERYTHING. (And propane/ng to some degree)

Speaking of refrigeration, what kind of portable solar-battery charger setup could run a small fridge in the summer?

A lot of RVs owners are using solar setups to power at least some of their needs. I'll start looking for those setups when we go camping in the next couple weeks. Would like to discuss them with some owners.

If I were dealing with a chronic health condition requiring refrigeration for medicine this is an area I'd be looking very seriously at. And since that day may arrive I'll look seriously at it anyway.

“EMP 101” A BASIC PRIMER & SUGGESTIONS FOR PREPAREDNESS is an interesting read. Once ALL the electricity gets turned off nationwide, most vehicles -- meaning cars, trucks and trains simply stop wherever they are -- transportation both personal and commercial stop. Don't be caught in a fly-by-wire airliner.

Food shipments stop; water pumps stop; sewage pumps stop; A/C gets warm and your furnace goes cold. Communications both commercial (radio & TV) and government (police and fire) cease. Hospitals will lose power and depending on how their back-up power is wired, they may lose that too -- not a good time to be in surgery.

I particularly appreciate the authors thoughts regarding the likelihood of an EMP "strike": Time to invest in a large Faraday cage.

As I understand the nature of a nuclear EMP, most of the energy is below 100 MHz. Many automobile electrical systems will survive due to the steel Faraday cage-like structure in which they're enclosed-- maybe -- the car still needs gas. Then again, that FM radio thingy in most cars is right at +/-100MHz with an antenna that takes what's outside and brings it inside, hmmm. I wonder how much a spare computer and other components would cost; cheap insurance? or is my tinfoil hat showing

Fortunately, with a car the EM pulse only has 2'-3' of radio antenna to couple into the car's system, which may limit the damage. Most of the serious infrastructure damage is caused by the miles and miles of wire the EM pulse can use to couple to our electric grid. That's where the huge spikes come from.

I'm not really informed well about EMP, but logic indicates it would only harm electrical equipment that was powered up at the time the EMP hits. Equipment that is not operating, or powered up, would not be affected. Is this correct?

That would be nice. My car rarely runs during the week and not that much on weekends.

On a normal day, unless you use your car for work, most people's cars aren't running the vast majority of the time.

My computer would be toast, though. Been wanting a Mac...

Maybe it's time for a spare. Hook it up to a solar battery charger and then I could still download photos from my digital camera which probably would not have been on, either.

Will want Zombie pics.

Nope, it's still a problem for stuff that is plugged in but turned off. As the electromagnetic pulse passes through power lines high voltages are induced (same principle as the magnetic field of a rotating magnet in a generator causing electrons to flow in the wire surrounding it). The voltages induced in the power lines by EMP are GINORMOUS and will easily arc across something as minor as an "off" switch.

Stuff that isn't plugged will be spared this massive voltage but as the EMP passes through its conductors a voltage will still be induced. The question is will the voltage be high enough to burn out the device? The fear is solid-state stuff (computer chips) won't be able to handle even the relatively small voltages induced in them.

-Blast

Blast has it. An EMP doesn't need the power turned on because it has all the power required. The only issue is how effectively it can couple (get inside) your electronic systems. If the system is protected by some form of Faraday cage (car body) and is insulated you may be lucky. On the whole though, a well executed EMP strike 300 miles above Omaha is likely to be extremely effective in taking out a high percentage of U.S. transportation and communication, as well as most of the electric grid. Ugly.

There was some technical analysis to the EMP levels that would actually be generated in the books scenario vs say, nearby lightening etc - not nearly as bad as you think, and as someone said - you can imagine what the US Government respose would be. Hint, they wouldn't have to worry about EMP on the other end, but worry about, oh solar level temperatures

"... where on earth does Mr Forstchen get the idea that the USA would be taken back 300-400 years considering electricity generation hasn't been in widespread use since the the early 1900s ..."

I suspect he's closer to being right than wrong.

For the first 300 of those 400 years, people knew how to survive where they were, with simple implements. In every settlement, most of the people knew how to grow food, one or two knew how to work metal, one or two could make wagons and wheels, some could make fabric, most could make clothing from scratch, someone could make boots and shoes, a few guys could build a grist mill.

The U.S. has 300 million people -- how many of them could do ONE of those things? Not very many.

It isn't the lack of electricity itself that we are so dependent on, it's all the things we need and use that are, in some form, based on electrical power.

America mostly manufactures for heavy industry. We've outsourced much of the 'simpler' stuff. Slam the import doors right this very minute, and we're going to be in a world of hurt. How are we going to suddenly crank up production just for things we need to survive, and do it without electricity?

Imagine molds carved by hand, basic materials collected and processed by hand, put together and built by hand... for 300 million people.

Food alone would be a massive problem, with overwhelming starvation. Who really knows how to grow it? Who even has seeds right in their home? Has their soil been improved, or is it solid clay or nutrient-poor sand? How many people have gardening books on hand, so they even know how to grow it? And if they can grow it, how do they preserve it for the other three-quarters of the year? Can it? Do you have the glass jars and lids? How many people know how to make containers from glass? There probably wouldn't be any lids, so they would have to use paraffin. Where do they get the paraffin? No jar lids means no pressure canning, just hot-water bath canning, and probably some sugar. Drying in humid country requires heat and insect protection. Pickling requires salt or vinegar. Does everyone have a goodly supply of salt and sugar and screening or netting?

How about medicine? Talk about the Dark Ages! No autoclaves, no centrifuges, no electron microscopes, most diagnostic equipment are just doorstops, no incubators, and most of the medications will probably be herbal (that strange old lady down the street with the 17 cats and her three acres devoted to herbs, everyone's new best friend!). Can you imagine how today's doctors would be dealing with the problems?

How fast can you manually shear a sheep? Pick enough cotton to make a yard of fabric? Pit a bucket of cherries? Shell a bucket of peas?

And I see two more problems: mostly the older people are likely to know how to 'do' things, but most aren't likely to have the strength and stamina.

The younger ones with the strength and stamina, forced to do actual menial labor? Stoop labor? Planting and harvesting potatoes by hand? Digging and preparing soil? Weeding by hand?

The MeFirst and Gimmee Generations doing this kind of labor? The tantrums, the screaming and the foot stamping would be heard from California to Maine, from Washington State to Florida!

Actually, I think the author understated his prediction. I think we would be taken right back to the Stone Age.

Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack:

• Critical National Infrastructures Report (low-resolution — 7.16 MiB)
• Critical National Infrastructures Report (high-resolution — 51.5 MiB)

This report is from April of 2008.

Susan hit the nail on the head with "Food alone would be a massive problem, with overwhelming starvation. " Next up is illness and the ability to help sick people... and the "technology" there to do this. The author was spot on when he said to look at 3rd world countries and "small" sickness problems they have and how HUGE they are compared to places like the USA where you can get "common" (read: when there is power) medicine. It's a VERY big snowball affect.

It's not the lack of electricity @ our home that would be the largest concern for the MAJORITY of the population (sure people who are elderly or need electricity to survive it would affect them directly).

However, after a VERY short period of time grocery stores would be out, and people would start to go hungry. We are not talking months we are talking WEEKS! Your average store doesn't have enough food on hand, they re-supply DAILY. Now imagine an emergency people know they need food and water and they rush to get it... stores will be out in DAYS if they don't limit, and weeks if they do. Either way in less than a month in MOST cases people will start running out of food.

Without electricity food won't be able to be transported, (even grown or harvested), fuel will run out, deliveries will be slow, and resources on the mass scale that we rely on now will no longer be available.

This is NOT an "End of the World" scenario here it's just how our society has evolved, and how complex everything is, etc.

The EMP Report is a read, and they acknowledge failures in their "tests" but it's just a "test"... not 100% fact so keep that in mind too.

Either way, there is no harm in being prepared.

I don't want to spoil all the fun but are you guys serious with all this doom and gloom?

What do we actually KNOW about EMP and how it would affect the infrastructure? There are precious few FACTS out there. Aside from a few isolated tests, nobody knows for sure.

Would our electric appliances and electronics survive an EMP? Maybe yes, maybe not. But think about the Y2K. Before it happened, every journalist out there knew all there was to it. Nobody really paid any attention to what the real experts were saying. And it the end it was much ado about nothing. Am I the only one to see a pattern?

What is the possibility of an EMP knocking out the entire US infrastructure? From what I've been able to find out, very small indeed. If it does happen though, it will likely be caused by a deliberate high altitude detonation of a nuclear weapon. This is totally beyond the capabilities of any terrorist group at this time and could only be pulled off by one of the major world powers. So if that does happen, it will basically mean the beginning of a nuclear war. At which point, whether you can keep the medicine for your dog's rump refrigerated becomes totally immaterial because you'll have a bunch of real problems to deal with.

I'm all for preparedness but you can't foretell what specific cataclysm is going to happen next and when. All we can do is some common-sense preparation and improving ourselves, physically and mentally. But I sure wouldn't base my survival plans on the latest scare, sensationalistic journalism or mediocre fiction. YMMV.

EMP or Not.

Knowing that the infrastructure of this country is what most rely on to survive should be alarming enough to be prepared

Doesn't North Korea have this technology now...

Doesn't matter if they do or not. The world's watching that devastated country like a hawk. Nothing dangerous is coming out of there except maybe pollution. Same thing with Iran as an actual threat to the continental US. Zero. I say Tom's right, the only major EMP strike in the US would come from nuclear war. IMO the real "EMP" is the dollar and the deficit, as a sharp rise in interest rates for US debt would be catastrophic. And unfortunately this threat is all too real. Then again, books about monetary policy and currency manipulation just aren't as exciting as post apocalyptic novels. Hmmm, how about this one: "Interest Rate Armageddon, The Day After OPEC Dropped the Dollar." Or maybe "Basket of Currencies, The Day Inflation Came Home." Nah, still sounds boring.

The discussion presupposes that someone can detonate a nuc' up there. To enter the argument and just dis the presumption is an interesting way of avoidance.

If two countries such as Iran and North Korea are working on nuclear weapons (they are) and delivery technologies (they are) and we know they will probably have a limited number of weapons in their arsenals, one way that they can effectively use a limited strike capability is with that high altitude burst.

It is technologically feasible and if a nuclear nation decided to do it there's not much we could do to stop it without a preemptive strike and that takes us to a political area we should avoid.

We are discussing the outcome of a successful EMP strike. The presumption may be wrong, but that doesn't make the discussion invalid. We as a nation aren't prepared for the aftermath.

I read the book 2 weeks ago.

I'm an Electrical Engineer.
I work in the defense industry. I've analysed some projects for some of their characteristics related to their EMP-resistance.

I don't expect any of my cars or my motorcycle to run afterwards (though they might - depends on many factors)


EMP is a very serious threat to the US though it is just one of many possibilities.
An EMP weapon is a very cost-effective way to attack the most electronically dependent nation that has ever existed.
An EMP weapon can be manufactured without using nuclear detonation to create the pulse though it would be shorter ranged.
But that just means a few more are needed.
For a nuclear warhead EMP all it really would take is 1 at high altitude.

Reading the book spurred me to put together a walk-home-from-work-kit for each car I might drive to work. I have been studying water sources and layup sites along the way. Since the walk home is about 40 miles, this is a non-trivial exercise.
Previously I'd just had warm clothing and boots in each car. Now my kit is built like I really mean to use it.

I hope it's just a thought experiment.

I wrote this AAR a week ago, elsewhere.

I'm just getting around to posting it here. An EMP attack is always on my mind. Our BoB's go on trips with us and I keep a GHB (Get Home Bag) with me at work (on a towboat)

I got off the boat yesterday in Superman's home, Metropolis, Il. I took advantage of the location to travel throughg the countryside in which I have my "escape routes" running.

Keep in mind that my escape routes are in the event that an EMP attack was launched against the country.

I took Hwy 45 southward from Paducah down to Fulton, Ky, and thence southward to Memphis, Tn via Hwy 51.

Hwy 45 runs between 2 of the escape routes (RR tracks) that I have documented from Paducah, Ky to Fulton, Ky. I found that the fields are all planted with corn and soybeans (subject for another post), there is an Amish community around Mayfield, Ky. The topography consists of gently rolling hills and many large/small creeks.

I-55 going south from Memphis, Tn to Brookhaven, Ms consists of gently rolling hills as well with more forest and (cattle) grazing lands.

All of this countryside is rich in wildlife such as deer, raccoon, rabbit, squirrel, etc. The natives are mostly an older lot and friendly enough to strangers that are also friendly and appropriately behaved. There are no water shortages through the areas although fresh water will still need to be filtered/strained and then either treated or boiled prior to consuming.

I have simulated EMPs and I can tell you anything electronic that isn't massively sheilded is quite vulnerable, as well as most transformers.

A conventionally fired EMP is really easy and cheap to build. It may take out a small city.

A nuclear EMP at altitude will knock out all consumer electronics in the CONUS, right down to the wristwatches and cell phones all of us use. I've mentioned before what the sheilding requirements would be to keep tech tools from being zapped.

Anyone read the prologue (intro) to the story "Lights Out". That seems like a pretty feasible scenario for delivery.

However, anyone who would attack us with an EMP of that nature would well realize that a retaliatory strike would not be preventable, and would not be so limited. Sure they might hurt us, but they would cease to exist. Even the Ayatollah prefers to keep what power he has to being vaporized.

Don't be so sure Benjamin. A ship engineered as a launch platform could fire the missile from off either coast and then scuttled. The crew either sacrificed or picked up by a second ship with no evidence. All they'd need is plausible deniability and the Ayatollah could sit back and say, "Who, Me?"

There's no nuclear fallout, no craters, Geiger counters read nothing -- pretty soon folks will deny there was a nuclear weapon detonated. The only counter is good intel and a preemptive strike. I'm not sure we as a nation still have the national will to stop it even if we had the intel.

I have read the results on the EMP Commission’s findings.

Some interesting facts.. Out of the 20 newer model cars they tested only about 3 or 4 of them totally died. They said that when hit with an EMP while running some stopped. Interestingly enough they only needed to be restarted (some required new fuses and a little tinkering) and they ran adequately.

And the electricity that is generated by diesel Generators would not stop. That is the great thing about Diesel they can survive an EMP attack.

Also lots of Buildings that house critical data and infrastructures are built with a Faraday barrier. A Faraday Barrier is something that will mitigate or Lessing the impact of an EMP. There was an article written on this in Military & Aerospace Electronics Magazine.

Before you all think I am the "it is all OK" person. The Truth is that it wouldn't be OK. The infrastructure would break down like Katrina I am sorry to say. The statistics are not saying that 90% of the population will die. The statistics say that 70% will die after one year of no electrical power. The truth is that we would be set back, and there is no denying that.

The good news is that people like us on this forum that are prepared and are adequately knowledgeable in the skills that seem to no longer be in style will do just fine. We will struggle and be terribly inconvienced but we can and will find solutions. Throwing us not so much back into the Stone Age, but more the colonial age...

I don't see Electricity totaly being demolished by an EMP. But as we went about fixing the infrastructure (if that level of organization could be acquired.) there would be more islands of electricity. If you think about it some people would get there solar panels back up and running. Towns that use Hydro electricity would get the circuits and fuses necessary replace. The diesel generators would be fed the fuel necessary and they can run even during an EMP.


Would an EMP produces an apocalyptic environment? YUP.. more colonial/wild west apocalyptic and a lot less Mad Max / Cave Man.

Googling "Faraday cage" yields a lot of interesting results.

Not just on EMP but also lightning strikes. Previously, I'd assumed a car was a refuge in a lightning storm because of the rubber tires. Nope. And my Honda Element's plastic panels reduce the Faraday protection. Dang. Argues for stocking up on bike tires and tennis shoes.

Don't know anything about this person or their qualifications, but they are concise:

http://preparednesspro.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/emp-101-part-iv-faraday-cage/

a car is NOT a Faraday cage sufficient to withstand an EMP incident. It has some similar components, yes. Most cars made today consist of fiberglass and disjointed parts, not a continuous metal material. In addition to that, they are on tires. Tires on a car do NOT serve as grounding. Folks are simply getting an EMP strike confused with a lightening strike. Now, IF you had an old fashioned car that was made of metal, that had its tires removed, that was also attached to an Iron or copper pole and that was ALSO on dirt—not gravel—then yes, you may have a car that doubles as a Faraday cage.

You can have an instant Faraday cage with a galvanized trash can or a large stock pot like they use in restaurants. (Be sure to clamp the lid down. Remember—continuous connection is key. Since Faraday cages are not fool proof, depending on the strength of the pulse, I would recommend burying such containers 2 feet under the ground, storing survival electrical and battery items. (Including batteries).

Be selective in what you protect. It makes no sense to protect a cell phone, for example, as the cell towers will be useless. If it were me, I would protect radios, communication devices (such as a HAM radio), batteries and all of their respective tools, thumb drives loaded with all of my vital information, and a laptop.


National Lightning Safety Institute

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/vehicle_strike.html

Electrically speaking, at lightning's higher frequencies, currents are carried mostly on the outside of conducting objects. A thick copper wire or a hollow-wall metal pipe will carry most of the lightning on outer surfaces. This phenomenon is called "skin effect." The same holds true for lightning when it strikes metal vehicles: the outer surface carries most of the electricity. The persons inside this steel box can be likened to protected by a partial Faraday cage.

If the car is made of fiberglass (a poor conductor) or a convertible, skin effect principles may not work. (Corvette and Saturn owners, please note this fact.)

School Buses. Metal buses are good Faraday cages.

Actually, to me those sound terrifying. At this time I am not worrying about EMP. Having looked into it, I haven't been able to find any proof Iran, NK, or other minor powers have the technology to get a nuke that high (+300 miles) above the USA. As much as a terrorist group would like the put us in the dark I feel they'd take the easier route of trucking the nuke into a city then detonating it, and even that I consider to be a low threat. Sidenote: I'll start worrying once a rogue power develops a rocket strong enough to do this.

Economic disasters seem much more likely to me at this time.

-Blast

p.s. I welcome any information or links indicating terrorists currently have the launch capabilities needed.

Actually what N.Korea has been doing lately comes close to demonstrating the delivery although not from a sea-based platform. Both N. Korea and Iran are years away from putting a warhead in position, but all that means is we have a bit of time if we decide to use it. If we keep saying that it will never happen we'll just convince ourselves that we're safe.

Once I get some near-term issues resolved and move out of CA (another topic entirely), my first major purchase will be a mule or two. Then I'll start collecting old mule pulled farm equipment. . .

So, because the "world" is watching means we should not be concerned. That sounds like even more reason to be concerned to me They know something is up, they are watching.

We already know that "the world" can not prevent everything bad from happening to us

Here's some links for Blast

Iran successfully tests Long Range Ballistic Missle.

Russia's Nuclear Stockpile for Sale

Israeli Iran Threat Evaluation

This took me back reminiscing about the tattie howking and berry picking days of my youth during the school summer holidays during in early 80s, lifting the tatties to the sound of MJs Thriller on my Sony Walkman. Imagine the Hullabaloo you would have nowadays keeping the all the school children off school for a few weeks to get the harvest in.

A few years without electricity might actually save more lives in the long run as all those folks with sedentary lifestyles might actually had to do some manual labour, they would get leaner and fitter. The health and diet industry might see a particularly bad downturn in its fortunes though.

Probably the worst aspect of a post EMP attack would probably be someone having the idea that slavery might be worthwhile re-introducing as the ruling elite probably wouldn't want to get their owns hands dirty down in the farmers fields.

Hmm perhaps 90 percent casualty rates might not be out of the question after all as everyone starts shooting everyone else for that potato (but even then would they know how to cook it after prising it from someones cold dead hands?).

What's a "tattie?"

I've picked berries as a youthful Oregonian, but can't recall howking a tattie.

---- I've since Googled the phrase and was relieved to see it's not related to phlegm.


:-)

Picking potatoes I believe...

Diesel generators contain motor windings, rectifiers, and regulators, just like any other sort of portable generator system does. They will fry out just as quickly as any other semi-conductor or coil of wire will. A diesel engine will keep running because it has no ignition system, except if the electronic fuel injection control system gets fried, then it is a piece of junk just like any gasoline engine.

Modern diesel engines will not survive an EMP any better than modern gasoline engines. Last I looked, there weren't too many dusseldorfs(sp) on the road.

Out of 20 new model cars, I know I can fry the solid state electronics in all of them just by inducing an EMF field consistent with an EMP. I've done it before, I can repeat it.

A faraday screen must have a tremendous ground connection in order to sufficiently mitigate the transients associated with an EMP effectively. The ground conductance needs to be on the order of thousands of mhos to be even marginally effective against a nuke EMP. Without the shunt, the field saturates and propagation through the screen is inevitable. I liken the effect to what happens when you hit a big bell with a hammer. If the bell is dampened, the sound energy is not propagated, but if the bell is not dampened (grounded), the sound energy carries through the bell and beyond.

A company called Sundanzer produce domestic Refrigerator and Freezers designed to be used with 12V solar PV. Typically if you wanted to run a Sundanzer Refrigerator of say 8 cubic feet in ambient temperatures of 100F then the amount of solar energy would be around 430Whrs/day with the PV array battery size assumming 4 sun hours/day @ 220W PV array with 335Ahr 12V Deep Cycle battery. For a Freezer of the same size then a 475W PV array and 740Ahr 12v battery would be required.

http://www.sundanzer.com/PDF/residential_system_sizing.pdf

http://store.sundancesolar.com/su80cuftdcfr.html

So the cost for the more expensive Freezer option would typically be;

Freezer - SunDanzer 8.0 Cu. Ft. DC Freezer -$1250
Solar PV array - Sharp 80 Watt Solar Panel NE-80EJEA x6 = $2574
Charge Regulator - Xantrex C60 Charge Controller - $179
AGM Batteries - 12V 105 Amp-Hour Sealed Lead Acid AGM Battery x8 - $2720

Total Cost including cabling - approx $7000

The SunDanzer 8.0 Cu ft. Refrigerator option would be considerably cheaper at around $4300

Of course if the ambient temperature for the refrigerator and Freezer operation are lower then the cost will come down as well.

The Polar Power SPR-10 is another refrigerator to consider if you prefer an upright. Don't own one now, but I might later. That said, I like the idea of a chest type freezer, more efficient as the "cold" doesn't spill out every time you open it.

The SunDanzer 8.0 Cu ft. Refrigerator option would be considerably cheaper at around $4300... the fridge is less... You can then use the Amazon Solar Panel kit.. hell, 2 of them <$800. And you are into it for $2000.

STILL, super expensive unless you want to be off-grid 100% all the time Which is not a bad thing

I think that if they whoever they might be would go the easy route build a device big enough to take out a major city then build a few more and pop them while in an airplane over the city of their choice. Think about all the chaos the would happen if they emp'd say New York, Washington dc, and LA and then just for fun they set off a few above our ports and electrical grid control stations. Heck fry the grid in New York and LA at the same time and we'd have to call troops home to contain that mess do it in the summer and the rioting would never end cause people would riot and loot for food and water and people would die in the heat and New Yorks pretty much our financial capitol they take that out and the repercussions would be enormous.

The electrical grid is sensitive and controlled from key points you don't have to fry TONS of points to hurt the majority of the USA... Doesn't even require an EMP.

Being prepared is a way of life

Thats it! You guys are freakin me out. My new EDC is a large steel box with a chain draggin on the ground. That way at least my cell phone and GPS will be safe....oh wait, nevermind.

I am betting all the cash machines will work fine but the banks will have lost all their data about which accounts had any money in them.

Gee, $7,000 seems like a lot just to run a refrigerator. How about something like this instead:

Alternative to solar/electric refrigerator

I see several advantages here, the biggest one being that you can use any relative heat source to run this sort of unit with. With some minor modifications, you could even run this thing using a wood fire, bunker oil, coal, whatever you can find and burn. You could even make a cheapo solar collector that would run this thing, which is going to cost far less than PV arrays and batteries.

I like flexibility and thrift.

Here's something coming soon that kinda knocks pv out the door.

Alternative solar refrigeration

$7,000 is pretty expensive but again that figure has to be balanced over the lifetime of the kit in question. Assuming a 20 years operational lifetime means an annualised cost of $350 per year.

A typical chest freezer of around 8 cubic feet (energy A+ rated) would cost me around £350 or $600, with its energy consuption stated at 223 kWhr/year or 610 Whr/day or about $100 per year in electricity running costs.

looking again at the http://www.sundanzer.com/PDF/residential_system_sizing.pdf energy usage table this would assume an ambient temperature of 76F assuming similar insulation properties.

The $7000 figure was based on the 100F ambient so if the conventional on grid freezer was used in a continual 100F temperature the energy consumption would I suspect be around double that so a 450-500 KWh/year figure would be more typical. i.e. its electricity costs would be $200 per year to run. The difference being $150 per year in addition to the operational cost of the grid tied freezer over that 20 year operational period.

You could see that additional cost of $150/year over the 20 year period as an insurance policy against grid failure and the consequences of no refrigeration facilities. The solar PV and battery system can also of course be used for additional emergency measures because the $7000 PV refrigeration system can also be used to power other devices in the event of an emergency or long term grid failure which takes higher priority over domestic refrigeration.

I figure I can get an entire solar system for my entire house for 15k or less.

$7k for a fridge setup is nearly half my entire house solar setup, and I get to keep my original fridge too!

Federal 30% rebate for going solar, and then 2.5$/watt rebate for my panels for grid-tie and I`m getting a lot closer to that $7k figure for my ENTIRE house L O L.

That is extremely interesting - thanks for the link.

Reading of such innovations always gives me hope. Technological advances that improve survival off the grid are not only terrific for those worried about the potential for the grid to go down but it is revolutionary for those in areas of the world that never had a grid to begin with.


:-)

I've read the book and have to give it a thumbs down. First off, the author's grammar is pretty awful, which tells me he doesn't have a lot of writing experience and/or schooling.

I thought the idea was excellent, but his setting and subplots were entirely cliche'. They've all been done before. This book is simply Patriots or Lights Out set in a different place, with all the cheesy dialogue included. I'd love to see it set in a larger city, and focus more on the specific daily struggles of the people.

I guess the only thing I actually liked was that not ALL of the good guys won, including the main character. I won't go any further so I don't spoil it for anyone.

I found that article (Looking for Jim's new wife) appalling, and even sent an email saying just that. Maybe the guy doesn't want a new wife. Maybe he wants a young blonde trophy wife. Maybe he wants to mourn for a year or 2 first.

Maybe I run with an odd crowd, but I know of three families where terminally ill wives found replacement-wives for their husbands. Strangly, I don't know of any opposite cases.

Different strokes and all that...

-Blast

Hmm, I don't know if I'd trust my wife to pick out her successor if she were terminal. My daughters might come up with more viable options. I think the wife would probably rather see me go down with the ship.

Oh, alright, back to the Naughty Corner I go...

The more I look into solar powered emergency refrigeration, the more frustrating it is getting. Specifically the cost of the 12V DC powered freezer/fridge when comparing AC powered refrigeration to DC powered and even the design of the units themselves and the lack of flexibility for multiple electrical power options i.e. a DC refrigerator just needs a switch mode AC-DC PSU to power the DC motor. The SunDanzer refrigerator seems to be a remarkably efficient design but even with this Freezer, I would want the SunDanzer freezer to have the facility to operate as a refrigerator as well (especially for the asking price) due to the fact that the temperatures they operate should be programmable i.e. a simple PIC based, 3 term controller be implemented for variable temperature control would only cost a few dollars to implement. This would allow the Freezer (-18C) to operate as a refrigerator (+2 to +6C) if solar power outputs are limited. (it would allow the Freezer contents to be consummed within 3-4 days during a major power grid failure then allow the Freezer to be operated as a refrigerator with a 60 Watt PV solar panel and Xantrax 300 portable powerpack battery. This would help reducing the spoilage of food)

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/chest_fridge.pdf

I cannot even find a supplier for the SunDanzer or even an equivalent design within the UK. Surely its not beyond most manufacturers wit to use a DC motor with an optional AC-DC PSU (for grid use) instead of an AC motor just for the added flexibility in the chest freezer design. Even an easily made cosy down bag designed to fit over a cheap conventional chest freezer retrofitted to act as a fridge with a baffled zip around the edge of the top lid might be worthwhile to save energy costs and increase efficiency (to reduce thermal fridge losses) for Solar PV operation in an emergency. (although a pure sinewave battery inverter might be required for the AC motor)

That makes a dang lot of sense and should be easy for a manufacturer to do. It may have just never occured to them.

-Blast

After having lurked on the forum for quite a LONG time, I registered today solely to add my support to this bit of wisdom, which I see was lost in subsequent 8 pages of postings. Sometimes we forget to live while we are thinking about living.

Also, a big thanks to the board. Most of your posts have been very helpful to me in my own planning.

Different strokes for different folks.
We aren't doom and gloom, at least I don't consider myself that for sure... I may enjoy a trashy survival novel here and there but IMHO 1 Second After was not that.

Either way I disagree with the other poster who thinks you are "programmed" and can never over come that. THat's like saying you are programmed to kill your neighbor if he takes your goat... and since your grandfather's grandfather did that you have to too...

I enjoyed my scouting trip for my possible walk home because I rode my motorcycle. Scouting gave me a route to explore and a reason to do it. Motorcyle is a fun way to accomplish it.

Who says preparing can't be fun as well?

I have to say that I don't see this Group as, "Doom and Gloom" I see this group as the type of people that are willing to look into the darkness and really look into what people don't wish to face or accept as possible.

I see this group of people as people who are seeking ways to ensure that things that would cause the average person a major issue become nothing more than a moment of difficulty. Where the average person carries very little on them in there vehicle and at there home, always expecting people to be there to help them, we are willing to take responsibility for ourselves.

This is a group that I see as light hearted and serious. Often I see people take themselves lightly but what they do seriously.

I know I for one don't sit in a darkened room sharpening my knives, and eating MRE's just surviving. I live a very very full life and take my level of preparedness as a challenge and a responsibility. May I add a responsibility that I feel many people don't wish to own up to take on or even look into.

I read for topical as well as contemporary content. I finished reading all of the classics I cared to a long time ago. They may be well written, but they lack the necessary interest that would captivate me and provide value of thought. While quite a bit of the current production is want for good, wholesome plot perhaps, it contains material I can better relate to, find more relevent to modern times, and stimulate the creative processes enough to keep my attentions.

This is not to say that we can't gain from reading of the adventures of Ulysses, or Gremio, or even a more recent Huck Finn. Surely much of the classic literature contains veritable sagas of the human condition and lessons which are ageless. I find that the more modern the writing, the more compelling the message in general, simply because it is often more relevant, and therefore more interesting to me. Critically it may not approximate the caliber of the classics. I attribute this decline in literature mainly to the expeditious nature of modern life, and the diminished standards by which our recent talent have been educated in the language arts. Good writing is timeless in quality, but often superceded by more current events.

"Classic" literature might not be the best term here. A lot of people probably struggle with true classic literature because they lack the necessary background and education. The present educational system getting ever more "lightweight" doesn't help either. But if you do invest the effort to decode the writing style and history behind the classics you will be rewarded with an unbelievably rich experience.

Classics are called that way for a reason, and not just because some old bespectacled ivory tower scholar decided so. They're that timeless source of human experience and knowledge that no Oprah Show 5-minutes-of-fame paperback bestsellers will ever come close to. Reading Chanson de Roland and Saxo the Dane and the Nibelungenlied might seem difficult at first. Once you digest them though, you'll laugh when somebody tries to sell you Tolkien (who was incidentally pilfering from those very same works, though couldn't quite match the talent of their authors). And that's just on example of many.

But it's not a matter of classic (old) vs. modern literature at all. It's just good vs. badly written literature. When I mentioned James Jones, Norman Mailer and Kurt Vonnegut, they are modern/20th c. authors, writing about human experience many of us could easily relate to. I think any of their books would be a far better read than some amateurish survivalist fiction. At least those guys knew how to write and didn't struggle with grammar. BTW, if a writer has problems with something as basic as grammar I wonder just how competent he could be about EMP - being practically semi-literate?

I've known a lot of engineers who weren't big on writing. They were technically very competent but just not interested in writing style. That's one of those books and covers things you shouldn't judge.

But Montag's firechief boss Captain Beatty makes for quite a convincing argument here against this point of view. And look what happened to that poor woman!! The firemen didn't have a problem getting a fire going either.

Darn, that probably means your going to have to read the book if you haven't done so already.

http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheit-451-Ray...644&sr=11-1

Although there are plenty of torrent files available for the whole film which are easily downloaded.

I love to read. One day a few years ago i realized in the Barnes & Noble that they had all these 'famous books' posters hanging on the walls. I hadn't read any of them!

So I started and some I couldn't stand,
(*cough*Moby Dick*cough*)but most were damn good. They have a great 'works' display and it opened my mind to all sorts of authors I'd never read on my own. Count of Monte Cristo became my favorite.

I have been lurking around these forums for a few years now and have learned MANY useful ideas from the great wealth of knowledge that many of the posters possess.

I never felt the need to throw my " two cents " into the mix until I read some of the comments in this and a couple of other threads recently.

First I'd like to say to those of you who feel that the author of this book is in any way " stupid , ill-informed , not a good writer or simply another trashy gun-porn writer " I say to you that you are obviously woefully ill-informed yourselves. Mr Forstchen is not only a prolific and accomplished author, but is a brilliant scholar and one of the few authors in the world today that gets listened to and referenced on a daily basis in the upper levels of the government and the military. He didn't just decide one night that he was going to write a book about TEOTWAWKI he did exhaustive research about the plausibility and the probable after-effects of the events depicted in his book. As to those of you who question his writing ability, I urge you to search out any of his 40+ novels ( including several science fiction series that are considered tops in the genre over the last almost 30 years ) and actually read them. In addition to his novels he has written HUNDREDS of papers , reports , and short stories that have appeared in such diverse publications as Armchair General , Jane's defense Weekly , Jane's Intelligence Review , Naval Operations , Civil War Times , Scientific American and Wired. Some of his papers about the civil war and alternate outcomes of WWII and Civil War battles have been required reading at Annapolis , West Point and the US War College. For those of you who doubt his qualifications/intelligence I point out that he has a Doctorate from Purdue in History with specializations in Military History , The American Civil War and The History of Technology. He also holds degrees in Psychology and Literature. On top of his academic background he has worked as a merchantman , construction , land management and farming and on top of all that found time to teach as a Professor Emeritus of History and Faculty Fellow at a fine college in North Carolina. He usually chooses to only write of things he knows backwards and forwards such as in his newest book he wrote about a man who saved and restored an old WWII plane and used it to help the town out when they were attacked. He is a pilot and restored and owns just such a plane so he speaks from actual experience not just words on paper.

I firmly believe that his rendition of a post EMP attack on the US is not only plausible but it could end up being MUCH worse. Until recently I lived right outside Washington DC and had for most of my life minus a few years in college and the military, and I can only shudder to think what the consequences of such an attack would do to such a urban area with its hordes of people and lack of resources. I recently moved right outside Boston and though it seems a much quieter place it also teems with people unable to see past their own noses at what may very well be coming to this country.

Some of you postulate that his premise is flawed , and that the nations that are hostile to us are unable to perform the deeds he writes about. You are probably correct , but what everyone seems to forget is that there is a country with the will , the resources , and one of the most repressive governments in history still out there waiting for just the right moment to claim HUGE chunks of land in the name of "Peacekeeping" or "Aid in Force" and if the initial parts of the plan can be pulled off - we would be in NO POSITION to stop them. How hard would it be for one of the tens of thousands of Chinese freighters that are at sea every month to launch a DONFENG-11 ballistic missile over the US. This is a missile that uses solid fuel so its prep time is as little as 2 hours and its flight time to target depending on where they launched from could be as little as 7 minutes to reach a height that would affect the majority of the CONUS. Scary thought huh? What about 2 , 4 or 8 just in case some failed or where shot down ( by our non-existent Spaced based anti- missile defenses ) . Do you think we as a nation would have the ability to deal with the thousands of plane crashes , train wrecks , car accidents and all of the other catastrophes on that day along with the failure of the banking system , Social Security System, power grid , water pumping stations , Nuclear Power Plants , refineries , and all of the related bedlam in time to find out just who and what hit us and retaliate in kind? Or would we take our lumps and turn to our supposed " Allies" for help in trying to simply hold up the sinking ship?

Even if we only lost most of the post 70's vehicles and none of the Diesel Trains , and supposing we could begin to repair the millions of transformers and powerplants - it won't help - it would be over before we lifted the first wrench. If you can't feed , clothe , shelter and PAY your workforce - you don't have a workforce. I know what my priorities will be on that day ( God forbid it ever come ) but I can tell you this - I won't be reporting to work , and I'm pretty sure I won't even call them and let them know.

Mr Forstchen's book scares the hell out of me - not because it could happen - but because there would be nothing I could do if it did.

Thank you all for listening to my rant ( or whatever ) and allowing me to voice my opinion on issues , which is still the BEST reason to thank GOD that we live in the US.

- TheDarkOne

I was forced to read these at secondary school in English literature class. Some of it was pretty dull and heavy going.

Lord of the Flies
1984
The Road to Wigan Pier
The Catcher in the Rye
To Kill a Mockingbird
War of the Worlds
The Time Machine
Brave New World
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
Ulysses
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Moby Dick
Jane Eyre
Kidnapped
Fahrenheit 451
The Hound of the Baskervilles
The Merchant of Venice
McBeth
Hamlet
Death of a Salesman
Gregory's Girl

with some others that escape me now. (seem to remember - a World War One sitting in the trenches play as well as the war poetry of Wilfred Owen)

The human condition got to become a bit tiresome after a while, especially when you were expected to formalise a written answer to an exam question detailing the tedious psychological impairment of some fictional character who inevitably showed signs of racism, sexism, mental disturbance, political insurrection, blah, blah, blah....

Gregory's Girl was a good read though..

Problem is that Mr Forstchen came across as a Pysops media spook and quoting his CV doesn't lead me to conclude any further that he isn't one especially after the rantings of the second fellow on his website link video.

Deterrence was a greatly used word 20 years ago. Politicos used the word all the time, especially whose constituencies were/are heavily involved in the military industrial complex. The word doesn't appear to have an contemporary context anymore or perhaps it has just gone out of fashion like the word Plimsoll.

Well said - and totally correct.

I still am not sure where you are coming from though. Are you simply not a fan of the writing , the author or the premise. What about this book or author makes you stop and say - I really don't like that? I'm not criticizing , I'm simply unsure how to reply to a statement that must have gone over my head. Excuse this simple country boy I must just be missing your point - but if you would elaborate I'd love to try and understand better.

-TheDarkOne

Just a few points here: I am specializing in military history myself and am just about to submit my PhD thesis. I do not personally know of anyone in the military history community who would consider Dr. Forstchen "brilliant" or a major authority. In fact, I think he remains largely unknown, or known only for his fiction. I am NOT saying that to belittle Dr. Forstchen in any way. He has paid his dues, he holds his doctorate, but the bottom line is that he has focused on writing fiction rather than scholarly research. You can't do both in a single lifetime, it's one or the other. So he has made his choice and there is nothing wrong with that. But I am not quite sure how that makes him specially qualified to write about something as technical (and poorly researched) as the effects of an EMP. Also, if he does hold a degree in literature I am surprised by his writing style. Again, this is not a personal attack, just trying to show some of the problems. At any rate, we are talking about a work of fiction, not a scholarly/scientific peer-reviewed publication with all the necessary references and apparatus intended for a critical audience. Take fiction for what it is but don't try to make it something that it's not.

#2



That is a scary thought but no scarier than the fact that there are literally THOUSANDS of far more powerful nuclear weapons based on US soil already. All prone to accidents, disasters, even psychos taking control and detonating them over the White House. That, right now, seems more probable to me than an outside attack. Outside attack by whom and WHY? Why would China want to destroy the US? Would you really want to destroy your main trading partner? Would you really want to launch a nuclear attack on any world power knowing that you're going to get hit back? As for "rogue" states, they seem to be more of a threat to themselves than anybody else. Terrorists getting any serious long-range nuclear capability, well, NCBMs don't grow on trees and contrary to Hollywood, you can't quite buy one in Ukraine for a crate of beer. Then there is Russia, always "dangerous", but again, I can't foresee someone like Putin evilishly launching nukes on the US just for the hell of it. BTW, to make it really scary, if the Russians with their nuclear arsenal ever decide to do so there is no way of stopping them, you could only launch a retaliatory strike and enjoy the last few minutes left on this planet. So that opens a whole range of interesting questions. What do you do about a potential threat like that? Does that mean we should preemptively invade Russia just because they have the capability to destroy everyone else? Oh wait, the US has plenty of nukes as well so the Russians could reach the same conclusion. So where do you stop?? Who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, and from whose point of view?

The only thing I can say is that we're all just men and we can all get along. How many of you know a single North Korean? How many of you have met an Iranian or Chinese fanatic bent on killing every single American? Remember, what goes around comes around so don't treat people you know nothing about like enemies and "rogues".

Frankly, I'd much rather just sit back, do something productive instead of losing my sleep over paranoia or maybe read a good classic! Well, if were all together in the same room right now I'd just buy everyone a good cold beer/favorite beverage of choice.

Good point, just because it may not be the way we might handle that situation, doesn't make it wrong.

I don't think China is gunning for us just yet; however, if we accept their "goods" and allow them to help finance our debt (we are) and then we effectively devalue the dollar by printing more (we're doing that too IMO), thus repaying the debt with cheaper dollars, how good a trading partner are we?
The Chinese are always looking for other markets.

As for them getting hit back by the worlds only remaining military superpower, that presumes we know who launched the attack. With a sea-based attack from a merchant ship, the gun isn't smoking. It's really very Tom Clancy'ish, but I can see this happening and while we'd know it came from the sea, our ability to determine specifically which platform did it would be muddied by the lack of sensors after the strike. Plausible denial would rule and with the Chinese offering aid and friendship following the attack, would we bite the hand that's feeding us?

Diabolical. . . we'd be blaming Iran or N. Korea with no firm evidence and the real culprit would be off-loading supplies in Long Beach.

Great observation. It flat-out creeped me out (in no small part because I live smack in the middle of Washington, DC) and that's why I posted the initial query on the plausibility of his EMP scenario.

Stephen King has become a wealthy man writing novels that appall literary critics and scare the bejeezus out of the masses. Lots of peops will pay for a good scare (scary fiction, roller-coasters....). No fiction, until "One Second After," scared me more than "The Stand," because of the initial plot plausibility. The Stand, a mass market non-classic (and better written) book, still begs the question: what is optimal lethality for a virus to cause societal breakdown or severe economic damage? 90%? 80%? 50%? 30%? The federal government no doubt has such analyses.

For written and film entertainment, a great plot grounded in non-fiction can compensate to a considerable degree for mediocre fictional characterizations and dialogue. That's assuming you're not too distracted by imperfect grammar, writing style or discriminating in whose works or what genre you'll consume. Reader reviews of "One Second After" reveal that quite aside from the plot, some folks find the writing intolerable. I found the writing tolerable but lamentable. At the least it needed better editing.

As to the initial point of this thread, just how plausible the One Second After EMP premise is apparently is in dispute.

But it might be a good idea to have a 1958 Plymouth Fury. Not named: "Christine."

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for getting off the sideline.


:-)

9/11 was very Tom Clancy-ish.



;-)

Blaster, you need to read the list of qualifications in order to really understand what I would call the "creepiness" of Ms. Rawles and her quest.

What would the opposite of actively searching for a replacement wife be exactly? Letting fate take it's course? Surely at least part of the joy of a marriage is the part where the couple find each other? Pre-arranging a second marriage before the first wife is even dead isn't love, it's hiring a domestic servant who gets to/has to sleep with the boss.

Good to see you aren't being presumptuous or judgmental.

Sorry, I meant a case where the terminally ill husband found a new man for his wife.

I read his blog every day and saw his wife's original post. Personally, I felt that if posting it made her feel better then it was a good thing to do. James's comments on it indicated he thought it was a bit squirrelly and he was just humoring his wife.

-Blast

Russ, if you can live your life without making judgements or presumptions, please share the methods you use. Everything posted here is opinion, and thus a judgement, you're obviously free to disregard or ignore.

Given that most everything thats posted here is someone's judgement about something it might make for very light reading.

And while we're revisiting the topic, I find it interesting that some humans think that they can control every part of their lives, forgetting that it's the randomness that makes the human experience what it is. Control is simply fear.

The old method of nation states conqeureing and taking doesn't exist anymore and just isn't possible. Its about a 20 hour flight to asia from the west coast of the US. Thats a loooong way. Even if this was a plausible scenario it makes no sense. Everything in this world is for sale, including natural resources. The Chinese can just buy what they need from willing US sellers. Or they can do what Japanese companies have done in South America. Buy the best farmland, hire local labor, and raise crops for export only. What I'm saying its a colossal waste of resources for any nation to militarily occupy another in any capacity, and always winds up being a pyrrhic victory for the occupier. It makes no sense from a logistical, economical, or practical standpoint. And China is not some homogenous entity where everyone sings in unison and works in lockstep. Do you really think the chinese people would tolerate this type of destructive behavior from their government? They already have a hard time containing the thousands of demonstrations that take place each year.