Need to check my stuff more regularly.

Due to the storage issues in a NYC apt., from which I am moving out TODAY!!, some of my "just in case" supplies were stuffed into the bottom of a long closet. Getting to them required me to get on my knees and pull them out or to pull lots of clothes out. I didn't do this often.

Well, I pulled all the stuff out to pack up some of it and decide what to leave behind. One of the 2.5 gallon containers of water was nearly empty when it was pulled out. I checked for signs of a leak all around the other stuff and closet and looked for holes in the container itself. The only hole in the container was about 1/4 inch long and less than 1/8 wide, and it was on top. The container had been dented on top, and apparently 90% plus of the water evaporated out of it. It must have taken months for that to happen.

I still had water in my stash, but I did not have as mucha s I thought I did.

I think checking my stuff will be much easier in the house, and, hopefully, I have learned a lesson.

I had several water containers that all failed at the same place. The containers were subjected to sitting in a row undisturbed in my garage. IIRC they were Reliance brand containers that were about 6 or 7 gallon capacity. Every one of them failed in the same place. Since they were in my garage I noticed the leaks early. I'm glad I didn't have them inside the house. The leaks were toward the bottom of the containers so I might have created quite the mess that way.

If it's the 2.5 gallon containers with the spout made out of the translucent milk carton material, don't use those for long term storage. The plastics degrade over a short period of time and leak. The 1 gallon containers made of the clear plastic hold up much better. Just be glad the leak wasn't on the bottom or it could've ruined your other stuff.

ME TOO!! Wow, there must be some design flaw or something. Did they freeze?

Whew, thanks for sharing that! I don't trust the cheapo plastics containers anyway but I didn't think they would fail so fast.

I have been using the Reliance Aqua Pak 5 Gallon water containers (blue plastic with the white spigot included) for a few years now ... and, so far, have not had any issues or failures with those.
I keep them stacked "2 containers high", and store them under the steps in my garage. It never gets cold enough for them to freeze there... so, I'm sure that helps.

But, if others are experiencing failures with those, I will definitely be checking mine more often.

Technically, Aquatainers aren't meant to be stacked while full of water. Sort of a design flaw IMHO to make them easily fit together and stackable, but to expect users to only stack them if they're empty.

Good point ... certainly, there will be much more pressure/stress on the bottom container when they are stacked.
I haven't had any problems with the Aqua-Paks yet; but, now I am thinking I will probably unstack those, instead of continuing to test my luck.

Stacking just two Aquatainers probably isn't that big a deal, but just thought I'd mention it. I'm sure it's stacking like 4 or 5 of them that Reliance is most worried about. Not only are the bottom containers more likely to fail under all that weight, but you also have to worry about one of the upper containers tipping over and landing on someone.

After all these years I still find myself using 2L soda bottles for water storage. Never had one leak or break so far.

There has to be a design flaw. The containers I had were the ones shaped roughly like a jerry can. I purchased them locally and stored them in my insulated, heated garage. The containers were in a row sitting on the concrete slab with nothing on top of them. I should add that they were only subjected to sunlight while I was pulling cars or mowers in and out of the garage and even then it would have been indirect light. The containers had a large molded X pattern on the side and IIRC each container failed toward the bottom edge of the X. The containers were all new when I purchased them at Academy Sports & none of them lasted a year.

The sad thing is that I have a lot of the 3L size Ozarka stackable water bottles stacked several layers deep in the same garage and none of them has leaked.

I bought some of the large round Reliance containers to replace the jerry can style Reliance containers but I haven't had them very long. Time will tell.

ETA: I went to several web sites trying to find a picture of the containers that failed. So far I haven't been able to locate a picture of them. Hmmmm, either I'm mistaken about them being Reliance containers or that model has been discontinued. I don't think I'm mistaken.

Just another FYI, but plastic water containers should not be stored directly on the concrete floor because chemicals from the concrete can leach into the water. Actually, these chemicals could also weaken the plastic over time.

Hey Arney,

Interesting, since worldwide many water storage caches are made of concrete. I would have thought if this were a major source of chemical contamination, concrete would not be so readily used as a building material for water storage units.

Well, there are all kinds of concrete and I'm sure that any concrete enclosure specifically designed to hold water would take that into account.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard this bit of preparedness advice before. I have heard/read it numerous times over the years. I just heard it again when I recently went through my city's 8-week Community Emergency Preparedness Academy program and it was the guest speakers from the local water utility who repeated this advice to us.

No, I never heard of this before now. I can imagine newly poured concrete may continue for some time to leach chemicals to the surface, but I would think that after some time/curing the leaching would not be an issue. Do you know what chemicals are leaching to the surface? Any published references?

Thanks-
Pete

No, I have never heard/read any detailed explanation about this phenomenon and I have tried searching the web in the past because I, too, have been curious about it. Typically you'll just see the preparedness advice to keep the plastic containers up off the bare concrete floor, like putting your 50-gallon water drum on a wooden pallet or keeping your smaller containers on a shelf.

Any civil engineers or construction types out there? Maybe they'd know.

Edit: I was just Googling a bit and ran across this webpage. Obviously, this webpage is a sales pitch for a particular product (which I'm not endorsing in any way), but it does provide some interesting insight into why keep your water off the concrete floor. Apparently, even if you never spill any water on your dry concrete floor, there could still be water present as water vapor, which can leach chemicals out of the concrete onto the surface. Again, not intended as a concrete explanation (excuse the pun) but does shed some possible light on the subject.

Oh, and I did read that concrete used for water storage/transport purposes needs to be certified concrete, so I assume that a concrete water reservoir is not necessarily using the same concrete as what is used in my garage floor.

We found this out the hard way - had six 2.5 gallon containers stacked on a basement shelf and they all developed leaks around the funnels around the same time (less than a year).

The water I'd stored in milk gallon-type plastic also mysteriously leaked when stored directly on concrete in the basement for only a few months. It was as if the seams on the bottom just came apart! Jugs of the same age/make that were stored off the concrete remained in perfectly good shape, however.

I've since heard about keeping certain plastics off of concrete, especially new concrete(?) but still can't find any hard scientific studies to back this up.

Just to be safe, I now keep water in several blue "Aquatainers" (singly stacked) far away from any concrete flooring, and make sure to check/rotate on a regular basis.

Two years running, and no problems.





...

Just a thought, could be that it not chemicals leaching from the concrete that damages the plastic, but that the concrete is acting as an absorbent, leaching chemicals/stabilizers from the plastic and thus weakening the plastic until it leaks.

Pete

It's possible, but I don't think that is the main method of action here. Again, this is just my educated guess based on less-than-scientific reading, but based on that link I posted earlier, I think that alkaline compounds are leaching to the surface of the concrete, and plastics are generally susceptible to attack from alkaline compounds, so that is probably what is degrading the plastic slowly.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Pete

Call me paranoid but after all that thinking about concrete floors and what it might do to plastics, it makes me want to park my car up off the floor of our garage now to keep the tires off it!

The containers that I owned all failed at the edge of a molded X in the side of the container a few inches (maybe a little less, it's been a little while) off the floor. The portion of the container next to the floor, including a seam, were in tact.

I was doing a bit more Googling and I ran across this. Just for reference, here's an example of a warning to keep your stored water containers off the concrete. Scroll down a bit to the "A few tips" section.

Actually, the guy also makes the point that "the concrete weakens the plastic" so it's probably something going from the concrete to the plastic, and not the concrete absorbing something from the plastic.

Actually, another interesting factoid I ran across while doing some reading--apparently concrete does not truly finish curing for a loooooong time. The concrete in the Hoover dam is still curing on the inside (I remember hearing that on an episode of Modern Marvels or some show like that on the History Channel). There are very old concrete structures that are still curing. One benefit of this slow curing is concrete's ability to slowly self-seal small cracks over time, which wouldn't be possible if concrete were totally hardened and static.

Obviously, in applications where you absolutely want the concrete cured all the way through, I'm sure that there are formulations or methods that allow that.

I think the Reliance containers I have are different from the ones you had problems with. Mine are blue, and shaped more like a "block" or cube; not a "Jerry Can style" shape.
I think I originally ordered them somewhere else; but here's a picture of the them at Aqua Pak at Amazon.com

I too had read somewhere about not placing them directly on a concrete floor; so, it put down a piece of plywood, covered that with a piece of plastic, and then placed the Aqua Pak on that.
So far, no issues with leaks or container failure.

> One of the 2.5 gallon containers of water was nearly empty when it was pulled out.

You're lucky. Louise and I buy those for safe water after and earthquake, and we keep them in the garage. We use them at Burning Man every year, then buy another set. Those containers fail on a regular basis. We have at least one fail every other year (out of 10 or 12), and they leak all over the garage floor. We have another one leak in the van every few years, wetting whatever's around it. Really aggravating getting to the campsite and finding something was soaked on the drive there.

The packaging is made well enough to get it to the store and on to the shelf, but that's about it. We store them with the spigots up, because that's where most failures are, but they'll develop cracks just about anywhere there's a crease in plastic.

I'd like to suggest something more costly, but perhaps more cost-effective in the long run.

What I use for water storage is the Scepter GI Runt (2.5 gallons). These things are very heavy-duty plastic and intended for military, expeditions and such like. No spigot. Large pouring spout with a smaller one built into it.

I have six of them, all still in fine shape after three years.

Scepter also makes a 5 gallon version, same design.

I found them at brigadequartermasters.com.

Not affiliated ...

$23 apiece, and we buy ten to twelve 2.5 gallon packs of water a year, so we'd start off with a couple of hundred bucks invested to fill from our tap.

I have to say the price gives me pause.

Philip, I agree, the price gave me pause too. And at that time the Runts cost less, about $19 apiece. I researched alternatives and weighed the decision for weeks.

In the end I felt these would be worth the expense because (1) I'd have peace of mind and (2) they seemed likely to last many years, which would save me the cost of periodic replacement.

Another consideration (that may not apply to your situation) is that in my apartment space is tight and water has to be stored near clothing, shoes, books and files. For that reason I want the least possible risk of the containers developing leaks.

As always, YMMV.

Yup, did it, and yup, the bottom one deformed. 2 high has not been a problem for me. I tried 3 high...no go.

Thank you for that observation / consideration, Nurit - I'll be relocating to The City soon and hadn't considered that. Like, at all.

That thanks is extended to all NYC posters, by the way. I'm learning a lot from you.

I found a picture of the containers I owned that failed.

Reliance 6g Desert Patrol containers at Amazon

Oh, those Desert Patrol jerry cans. Yeah, I've actually read that they aren't very reliable. I've never had any problems with some of Reliance's other products, though, like the Aquatainer or Aqua-Pak. Somehow, I guess they got the design wrong when trying to create a plastic version of the classic jerry can.

You're welcome, Yelp. Please keep us posted on your move, and don't hesitate to ask whatever comes to mind.

FYI,

Here's a pretty good review on different types of water containers

Water Container FAQ

After doing a little more research on different forums, this seems to be the general consensus of the commonly found containers.

Desert Patrol containers from Walmart are notorious for leaking. Almost every review I've read about them mentions leaks.

The translucent polyethlene 2.5 gallon water jugs with the spigot are even worse than the desert patrol. The plastics are biodegradable and meant to break down in about a year (some people say months, others have gone over a year), but it seems like it will happen sooner or later

The blue Reliance aquatainers are pretty reliable, some issues with leaks after being stacked on top of another one (specifically NOT recommended by Reliance if you read their webpage). Some people haven't had problems with stacking, some have. I have them and use them for camping, and they've held up well as long as you're not too rough with it. The spigot makes it very convienent.

The clear polycarbonate containers used for sodas and water are pretty reliable.

The military MFC's are really good, but expensive. I might buy a few to replace the Aquatainers that I currently use for camping. If only they had an on/off spigot like the aquatainers, I think that would be perfect.

> Another consideration (that may not apply to your situation) is that in my
> apartment space is tight and water has to be stored near clothing, shoes,
> books and files.

Yeah, that's a definite money-saver. The Safeway boxes of water would definitely wreck your stuff and do damage to the apartment.

I'll note that Fold-A-Carrier water jugs have leaked for us after years of use.

Any thing that folds or creases will develop pinhole leaks along the crease eventually. We bought more Fold-A-Carriers because we're satisfied with the service we got from them and because they seem to be worth the money in the face of fairly rough treatment.

I also use Fold-A-Carrier water jugs but for a completely different purpose.

When I am the lone person in aluminum boat with a tiller outboard the nose of the boat is often to to high to allow proper trimming. So I put a full 5 gallon Fold-A-Carrier in the nose of the boat to even out the weight. This is easier than (and not as hard on the boat) putting rocks in the nose and if I carry over to another lake, I just dump out the water and portage the empty jug to fill at the next lake where I have a cached boat.

Fold-A-Carriers are not very tough, but if the leak is in the top, with a sharp knife they can be converted into a folding wash basin.

Mike

Lots of good discussion here giving me much to think about. My move is complete, except for a few items, special fragile items that will get moved in someone's lap or hands. Still have a number of boxes to unpack. My new home state has seen fit to allow me to have certain rights (withholding political comment), by granting me a small laminated piece of paper. And I have a long list of things I need to do getting my new home ready.

Thanks.