Economic Issues

I once again find myself treading, lightly, into a borderline area, which is sort of TEOTWAWKI-ish.

I've been working for a while on an article - and it's turning into a book - on the demise of the volunteer fire service in America. I was researching a number of factors, and in the last year, something that I didn't really see coming when I started this was the fact that many responders are unable to respond not because of their JOB taking too much time it's because of their Jobs. Over and over again, I heard of people who were good responders, with years of experience, forced to stop responding because they work two - or three - jobs. This is a growing trend.

To me, as far as LTP goes, this adds a few things into my "shelter in place" strategy. As a firefighter, I'm already prone to be paranoid about fire safety, but in the last few months, I've really gone a little deeper into planning for prevention, because this slow-mo economic collapse is already affecting the place where I live - this morning, on my way to work, we got a "cover" call - that's where we send our engine to another station because they are on a call for along time. Well, I was on my way to work, I didn't make the call. And listening to the radio, I didn't hear anyone sign on to our station. After 15 minutes, two guys managed to show up for the call. As of this AM, we had 2 guys and one fire truck to cover 140 square miles of Bucks County, PA. The other folks are at the barn fire.

The past weekend was the one where the paid EMS company near me is shut down due to budget shortages, leaving the nearest ambulance 20 minutes, one-way, from where I live (that's on dry, daylight roads).

What I'm experiencing is the very real and very now "collapse" of what would be considered "normal emergency services" for folks who live in slightly rural or exurban areas. This is not limited to Bucks County. In my research, this same scenario is common all across America.

It might be a good time to clean your chimney, check your smoke detectors, install a few more fire extinguishers, take a first responder course.

Oh, and to the point of fire extinguishers. If you've never practiced on live fire with one, make a way to do it. Ideally you can do it in your yard, but if not, try to find a place to learn with LIVE FIRE not some dumb simulation. You can buy small extinguishers for $12 - it's well worth it. Make a fire with something oily and stubborn - soak some rags in used motor oil and hang some old curtains over it to simulate a kitchen grease fire. You want to experience the heat and noise and feel and smell of the process before you have to do it for real.

In light of this what are your feelings on purchasing a firehose and hydrant wrench? I have a fire hydrant directly in front of my house and I've seen fire hoses on ebay...

911 response to our neighborhood has tradionally been slow and on a few occasions completely ignored. Yes, we are served by volunteer responders.

-Blast

"...Make a fire with something oily and stubborn - soak some rags in used motor oil and hang some old curtains over it to simulate a kitchen grease fire...."

Good idea. But it might also be a good idea to let the local fireguys, and your neighbors, know before you light off that smokey fire. Or you end up with a firetruck in your driveway, with all those pretty lights flasing, siren winding down. Also a back-up person with another extinguisher, just in case you mess up...

Martin, Thanks for this note. I hadn't thought about the effect of the "slo-mo economic collapse" on emergency services nor adjusted my preparedness strategy, skills and supplies accordingly.

You know, this might be a good way of working with your neighbors to foster a better, more prepared community. Spread the word that you give some fire extinguisher training at a certain time/date for whoever shows up. I think that might attrack some people. Another possibility is to get the homeowners association involved.

I wonder what liability issues this might entail, though.

-Blast

On the one hand, the fireguys usually don't like people messing with their hydrants. On the other hand, it is YOUR house that is on fire, and they ain't there yet. But be advised, a 4" hoseline is a handfull, even for a big guy like you, 100 pushups or not, the first time you are on the end of one, alone. And you for sure want someone else to turn it on while you hang on to the nozzle end. Someone with some upper body strength, some hydrants are hard to open. I would also wonder about the quality of a firehose I got on e-bay. Might blow out the first time pressure hit it...

"...I wonder what liability issues this might entail..."

Probably more than you want to get involved in, this being the good ole USofA, litigation capitol of the world...

Nope. Most likely not enough pressure from the plug, and you're just going to block access to the plug if/when they show up. You can't do much with a single line without turnout gear and air anyway. Prevention prevention prevention prevention. That's the key. Don't let it start.

"...not enough pressure from the plug..."

Not being a real fireguy, I forgot all about that pumper truck. THAT is what gives being on the nozzle end such fun...

1. No, don't invite others, because "training" isn't the same as "practicing on my own" and if you are "training" and they burn their house down, you're blamed for bad/illegal training.

2. If you have/deal with an HOA, forget it. These little pockets of PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. demagoguery represent the worst of all possible scenarios for a free person, and if you're stuck in one, you're stuck living in a world that makes China look like like Sweden. Tracts governed by HOA's are the opposite of a real community. The little Goebels who aspire to run such institutions are the embodiment of the unseemly dark side of human nature, enforcing a conformist agenda of meek subservience to random authority as imposed by the subjective whims of a cabal of priggish busy-bodies. Acres of neatly trimmed lawns, each home with neutral and conforming architecture and paint, with nary a bicycle or play set visible in the front yard is a vision of a green hell.

Hmm. Think I feel strongly about that subject?

I don't think many folks realize just how much of America's fire protection depends on the courage, commitment and personal sacrifice of our dedicated volunteer firefighters. I salute you for your service.

Good points on fire safety, too.

Good luck on your article/book. I follow this and related subjects, too, as an emergency services and healthcare attorney, firefighter/paramedic, and federal disaster responder, and I shre your concerns.

Jeff

That might go over better if you joined yor local VFD. Just a suggestion. You seem like the kind of person they'd like to recruit.

Jeff

"...Think I feel strongly about that subject?..."

Why don't you tell us what you really thing about HOA's?

What, me put OUT fires?

Sadly, I'm in exactly the position Martin is talking about. Multiple jobs, little time. However I am finally joining the local CERT response team. Training for that begins in Septmember, I'm really looking forward to it!

I figured the whole fire hose thing was a bad idea, but I didn't know for sure. Thanks for input, Martin. I am still going to approach the HOA about sponsering a fire extinguisher class. I've worked closely with them on some other preparedness stuff, I might have enough pull to get them aboard with this. No harm in trying anyway.

-Blast

I knew I liked you.

Nobody is using a 4" hose as a hand line, trust me. What you want is a properly sized gated "Y" valve between the hydrant and an 1-1/2 or 1-3/4 hose, with a reducer if necessary, and an adjustable nozzle. The Y valve will prevent the FD from losing a connection point, and the nozzle is essential to control water flow and pattern. This assumes that there is pressure in the hydrant and that the whole idea isn't illegal from the get go.

But I am by no means advocating it. There are lots of ways to get hurt around both fire and water under pressure that many folks might not be aware of. Consider volunteering with your local VFD, or at least checking with your local fire authorities. They may be able to pressure test your hose for you, or even give you some good surplus hose for a small donation.

That being said, sometimes a little water now is much better than a whole bunch of water later.

I've put a y valve in my pool pump line and my aux. generator is in the pump room. I've attached some small diameter hose for firefighting purposes. The electric pump doesn't have a lot of pressure or volume, but it is considerably better than a garden hose, and it will flow water when the power is out or the water pressure is down or off, as it would be if there were a major urban interface fire in my neighborhood, which borders on a nature preserve, after a hurricane, etc.

Jeff
Professional Firefighter

Number 6 had a problem with his HOA, except the HOA wouldn't let him leave until he became Number 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs&feature=related

LOL! I love that show, still have them all on VHS...

-Blast

Volunteer firefighters are also in shortage in mine country. We have also seen a decline in firefighters. Although the reason isn't because the volunteers need to work more hours to make enough money. The economy is still OK here. The problem here is that most people are working much further away from there homes. This means many fire stations have a lack of firefighters during the day. Also many people have to stop, because being a volunteer firefighters is like a part-time job, but without a decent pay. It's really hard on them and there families, to continue.

As for budget cuts, well they are also trying to cut costs here. Some are made by centrally organising things, like maintenance, buying equipment, training, etc. Which is not necessary bad, but some are also done by shutting fire stations down...

As for fire extinguishers, don't forget to mention fire blankets. They can be very effective, are simple to use and leaves a lot less mess.

You haven't seen a grease fire until you've taken a 36" wok, filled it to the top with cooking oil and heated it until it auto-ignites. I had a summer job with a fire-protection company and that was one of the tests we had to pass for UL.

We had turnout gear for when the system under test failed (often), but they warned me that it was the old non-breathable type that would steam you in your own sweat if you got too close to the fire.

I don't know how volunteers manage it. Between one full time job and a family I don't have an extra minute to spare.

This is a big reason I got into prepping (is that good PC phrasing for the S word?...) in the first place: society won't just "collapse" because of economic troubles, but it may become extremely vulnerable to disruption. Where as now Chinese paratroopers can be on the scene within six seconds of an earthquake, things may be different if the planes are grounded...

Interestingly, I have never seen fire extinguishers in local malls or hardware stores. Am I just looking in the wrong place?

I have a friend who just got voted out as president of her HOA because of lies spread by the person who wanted the job. I forwarded this rant to her, I'm sure she'll appreciate it.

I forgot to mention that there are serious problems, not just with national fire protection coverage, but with the nation's disaster response system, as well.

Not to be political, but the current administration has done a pretty good job of trashing the nations ability to respond catastrophic emergencies. This started with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and the massive bureaucratic reshuffling that entailed. Add funding problems, inexperienced and unqualified political appointees, privatization of key functions to wholly inept contractors, etc, and you end up with an entirely different sort of disaster.

The component I'm most familiar with, the National Disaster Medical System, actually had to be moved back out from under DHS and back to DHHS by Congressional mandate, but now the administration is not releasing Congressionally mandated funds where they are supposed to.

The teams that actually put the medically qualified boots on the ground can't get needed funds and supplies. For example, applications for the teams from critically needed specialists were left to linger for years without action, team administrators had to choose between working without pay or letting critical planning and preparation work go undone, and now, the teams' individual medical and equipment caches, which are essential to their function, are being taken away from the teams, where the teams could train, maintain and immediately deploy with them, and "regionalized" into the hands of remote, clueless regional contractors, with the dubious promise that they will magically re-appear in good order when and where needed in a disaster.

I'm told that the pharmacists who received such a contractor-"maintained" pharmacy cache for the CA wildfires found it completely useless, disorganized, full of outdated drugs, etc.

One Congress-critter was so upset by this that he got the FEDGOV to rescend the regionalization of his local team's cache. My own team is sorta writing off the FEDGOV until such time as they come to their senses, and we are increasingly working with the state, which recognizes the developing gap and in preparedness and is really stepping up to fill it.

Technically, we are under a sort of "gag rule" about any problems, but screw 'em. I work for the taxpayers and citizens, not the politicians and bureaucrats. They can fire me if they want to. They've really hurt what was once a darn good, effective, cost-efficient, volunteer-based system, and the widespread opinions of the experts in the know is that Americans will die as a result.

I'm mad as hell, and I think every American should be, too.

See: http://www.nadmat.org/index.cfm/m/3/dn/Letters%20and%20Presentations/ if you'd like to learn more.


Jeff

I'll just say +10 to what Jeff just posted on this. Unless you're in it, you can't begin to imagine how much the bureaucrats have mucked things up. I have long been aware that if I actually followed all of the regulations that are imposed on us by DHS, NFPA, OSHA, NIOSH and the rest we would not be able to respond to a call, but we'd have a really nice powerpoint slide show and a 25 page report on why we didn't show up for the call.

Yep. Home Depot and Lowes have them, often near the tool crib, sometimes in the paint aisle.

Ace & True Value stores sell them too.

Remember: Never, ever ever put the kitchen extinguisher over/near the stove, that's the last place you'll want to reach if there's a fire there! Don't put it under the sink, you won't be able to get to it.
Mount it to the wall, in plain sight, away from the stove. If you have a spousal approval issue, look at these models that come in white:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=pr...&lpage=none

or this one (you can get at Home Depot)
http://www.homehero.net/fireExtinguisher.html

When I lived in a community with a HOA, I can't count how many times some house frau on the HOA board (or the male equivalent) typed up an "Official Warning" or "Official Citation" to put on a door in the neighborhood for one insane reason or another. I had a big red citation taped to my door because a trash can blew into my yard during a winter storm. The note cited "Improper Storage of Garbage Containers". It had happened that day, it wasn't my garbage can, and I hadn't made it home from work yet to do something about it.

Back to the original topic though...

I don't have more than one job now, but I've had to take on more work and more hours to make ends meet, so it's similar to what many of you are experiencing. I can't imagine trying to juggle this with a voluntary position at a Fire Department. My thanks go out to anyone who can manage it.

I fear that there are a lot of troubles that will sneak up behind us and catch us by surprise because of the current economy. Thanks for highlighting this one. It's information worth thinking about.

I'm from Israel...

And I'd kill for a spousal approval issue.

Consider just a shift in tactics - your local Fire Dept may already collect expiring extinguishers from the public and generally needs to dispose of them, talk to your CERT organizer about asking the local fire station to have an open session and *invite* the HOA members (and other members of the puplic) to participate. That way its not under the auspices of the HOA and you probably get a similar turnout.

Our CERT class had a session on fire suppression where we used ~20 of these extinguishers to put out the gas / grease fire Martin suggests. It was conducted at the station, in a clear area, under FD supervision - very easy and made an impression on everyone. We had some good extinguishers and some bad ones, ones that misfired from age, we had to learn to step back and continue suppression with another extinguisher. I had never handled a fire extinguisher to put out an actual fire, I went home and duplicated the experience for my wife and kids in the backyard. I look forward to rotating out one of my extinguishers so we can practice some more, but I wager your Fire Dept would be pretty eager to give folks some hands on practice.

Sounds like Bucks County PA needs to look at figuring out a way to pay for firefighters and EMS to me. Volunteers are a great idea but all tax payers deserve a professionally trained fire and EMS service that are paid a reasonable wage for risking their lives to save others and their property.

Any county/state that doesn't provide such services should be hounded until they do.
If this country can send tens of thousands of soldiers to foreign lands to provide better living conditions,spending upwards of a trillion dollars, we can certainly afford to provide decent fire protection here at home.

In my humble opinion.

John E

And this story just out from the AP on this very topic.

Wow, I didn't realize that three-quarters of the country's fire fighters and rescue people are volunteers!

When I worked at (major NW airplane manufacturer) the internal fire department gave extinguisher training every six months. Good bosses, like mine, insisted the entire department attend as often as we liked.

They usually dumped gasoline into a shallow tank of water, then lit it and let us go at it one at a time.

I've been on calls where I am the only one responding, and I helplessly tried with one other member to help a woman who had a car wreck when there was no ambulance and I still believe that all we needed was a dammed airway to save her. She left two kids, 5 and 8. That call sticks with me because it was a just lousy hunk of plastic that we didn't have, for lack of a crew nearby.

There are three things in that article that you need to think about:

1. Between 1984 and 2006, the number of volunteers nationwide fell by 8 percent, or nearly 74,000, according to information from the National Fire Protection Association.

During the same period, the number of emergency calls to paid and volunteer departments doubled. The statistics don't break down the increase based on department, but volunteer chiefs say they're busier than ever.

...and the reporting requirements for each call has increased INCREDIBLY. We do something called an NFIRS report for each call. Imagine applying for a home loan every time you came home. It's not quite that bad, but it is about 6 screens of data entry. For each call.

2. "I hate to admit it, but there's been more times this year where other departments have had to help us out," said Bill Fortune, the fire chief in Ogallala, Neb., about 20 miles from Big Springs. Of the 75 volunteer positions on the Ogallala department, only 31 are filled.

Every one of our structural fire calls and auto extrications involves at least 2 additional departments. There's no shame in mutual aid.

3. Small town chiefs have also dreamed up their own promotions, from paying volunteers a nominal fee, to rewarding firefighters with golf outings, movie tickets or banquets, to providing services such as free baby-sitting.

We can't afford that, but we have started to reimburse members for mileage and some members (fire police) for hours spent on scene.

None of it is working.

To my point: Don't have a fire, especially during the day. Get medical training, at least to basic first aid, and keep it up to date.

...and be careful with your training. Seriously.

It's funny, I live in NYC, so we have paid first responders, but 20 years ago, I lived on Long Island. I looked into joining the local department when I moved out there

I was told that before I could join, even as a probie, I had to live in the town a minimum of 12 months. Then I had to do fire school, and 6 months of "cleaning amd maintainence of the building" before I would be allowed to go on my first run.. At which point I stood up, told the cheif where he could stick his hose nozzle, and left

Long Island is not like the rest of the USA, in the same way Mars is not like Earth. Long Island volunteer fire companies have more money than they need, more bad attitude than they earn and more waste than the worst government boondoggle agency you can think of. While I'm struggling to afford a lousy $900 for a laptop for the company, Long Island fire companies send their members on $20,000 cruises to "discuss issues they face raising funds". Don't put Long Island in the same category as the rest of American volunteer fire companies. They are nothing like us.

I grew up on Long Island, lived there from the time I was 5 until I was in my mid 20's, and again from the time I was 27 until I was 31. I've earned the right to say that.

Thats really bad. Our situation is fortunatly a lot better. Somebody has to do some explaining when a engine goes out without the needed 6 man crew, but generally there isn't any problems with crew members during priority calls. But there are occationally are problems with non-priority calls, like free standing trash containers, etc. I really can't imagine such a situation happing in mine country. I'm really suprised such thing can happend without public outcry and politicians acting up.

I don't know if I would have the balls to say that to the guy who's supposed to come put my house fire out.
I work in a hospital, the one I would end up in if something "bad" happened to me. I make sure not to [censored] off the people who will hold my life in their hands even if I have a justifiable complaint.

I'm not trying to make this political, but does anyone see the war in Iraq as contributing to a lack of personnel available to serve as volunteer firefighters? I only ask because the last few EMRs I've run into all had experience in Afghanistan and (the first go around) in Iraq. If they're over there, they can't be here - and if they're continually on active duty and being called up for duty, it kind of dissuades them from volunteer firefighter service.

Volunteers of all types, anyone who serves, they deserve our support.

I lived in an apartment, so they were going to put the building out - I had good (VERY good) content insurance - hell, when I saw him at the funding drive a few weeks later and they approched the car with their had out I told him when to stick it with a universal gesture, and said my money would go to the deparment in the NEXT town. Oh - BTW, that department didn't do EMS/Medical - just fire. They was a seperate Ambulance Corps, who got a hefty donation. They DIDN'T have an attitude, and I spent some time stuffing envelopes for them


Marty
Turns out that now days, even if they have more money than anyone (and yes, I know the 3 equipment standards - Normal, Deluxe, Long Island) they are HURTING for people, MOST departments have had to hire daytime staff!

We have one member who's been deployed five times now. He's a "white hat" and we keep losing him to various sandy and rocky places where he shoots at people and they shoot at him.

If I may suggest taking a local CERT class, let me jump in. Our fire department teaches Community Emergency Response Team classes. We learned triage, limited search and rescue, and had hands on training with a fire hose and fire extinguishers on the fire department's training lot with fires in a tub of water.

I would hesitate to make a fire in _my_ neighborhood with oily rags under an old curtain, but never let it be said that I encouraged safety. I've lost track of the number of wild fires here in California, so one more shouldn't matter. Floating embers from burning rags are lovely at night.

Martin, I have read the comment of the forum members to this point and I read words of the truth. For as far as the Vollies go, it's dying by degrees. Sadly, I'm afraid that we haven't seen the worst of it yet. I've spent the last 34+ years heavily involved the Fire, Rescue, and EMS in North Carolina, both career and volunteer. We are seeing a serious downturn in volunteerism for a myriad of reasons. I suspect that aging of the "Greatest Generation" and their immediate off-spring may be a contributor. While I'm not bashing the youth of today, there's a noticable lack of work ethic. If it can't be accomplished with a computer or a Playstation, not interested. Personal financial issues on the part of young married couples, especially those with children weigh heavily on the ability of the local fire-rescue companies to recruit vollies.
The training requirements are brutual by comparison to when I joined in the mid 70's. I wholeheartedly advocate training and drills as we ( the vollies) are held to the same standards as our career brothers, but where does it stop. Firefighter I & II, HazMat, EMT, Rescue Tech, Emer. vehicle driver, NIMS, WMD, and the list goes on and on.
Another problem that we've seen is the "combination" departments that pay part-time people to work tours in their stations. This keeps a lot of folks who are career personnel out of their home districts even longer or takes them out of picture entirely, because they can do the job and get payed for it, the best of both worlds.
More problems than answers my brother. I could go on forever, but it begins to sound like a rant. Good Luck and be safe.

Excellent advice Martin.

My daughter looks forward to when one of the fire extinguishers starts to "go flat". That's when we sacrifice it in the driveway to let her have a little "live fire" practice.

I set a small (tiny) piece of plywood to burn in the driveway to let her practice Pull-Aim-Squeeze-Sweep.

One of the gals here at my office, a trained paramedic, recently resigned from a local VFD. Between her job, her son, and the requirements of the VFD, something had to give.

I know some police departments in my local area pay reserve officers when they're on duty. I don't think the get the benefits of a full timer, but I believe when on patrol they receive the same amount of pay as their full time compatriots.

Since benefits are so expensive, I wonder if paying VFD members while on duty wouldn't be a good way to keep people as well as holding the total cost down. Of course there would be many locations where even that option would be prohibitively expense, but I imagine many mid-size towns might be able to pull it off.

Thanks for the reminder.

Whenever I talk to people about preps, smoke detectors and fire extinguishers are always the first things I mention (along with an escape plan). Of all the scenarios that people prepare for, I think that a fire was easily among the most likely.

In 8 years at our house, I've only needed a fire extinguisher twice. But as I found, when you need them, you REALLY need them.

Then it's not "volunteer" anymore, is it?

And that's the crux of the issue - the basic concept of the volunteer service is, apparently, incompatible with the modern mode of economic activity. We had a post in this thread, I believe it was a person from Denmark, who cited "long distances to work" as a reason for the decline.

Again, this started as an article for a magazine, it's turned into something much bigger, because there's been ample newspaper reports about the "crisis in volunteer services" and they all cite the same five reasons:

- the decline in manufacturing facilities
- distance people travel for work
- increased working hours (Americans work more hours then the Japanese)
- increased training requirements
- increased pressures of family & school activity

There is absolutely NOTHING that the volunteer service can do about any of these five items. Certainly there are other industries affected by these five factors, but volunteer emergency services are uniquely positioned to suffer the most.

There are two paths leading to two different scenarios for the future of emergency services in America. The first is the path to 100% paid/paid on call or some new version of paid emergency service worker that's not really well defined yet (more on this idea later). The other path is to nothing - no nearby emergency services at all. This isn't as far-fetched as it sounds, as it's happening right now, starting with rural areas that simply don't have anyone to run calls. It's not about houses burning, it's about people laying entrapped in smashed vehicles, with no help coming. It's about dying from a serious cut. It's about a diabetic emergency turning into a diabetic coma.

As I mentioned earlier, we might end up with a new type of emergency service. In rural areas, or even semi-rural areas, it's not uncommon for a fire company to run only 100-200 calls a year, and of those calls, maybe 40% are actually emergencies, the rest are false alarms, good intent, station covers and so forth. Not only would it be expensive to staff a station with no calls for two weeks, it would likely drive the firefighters nuts just sitting around. One model that's emerging is to have the municipal road crew trained and on call as the fire department. That's the case in a few areas around here - the road crew members who want to be be firefighters are paid - as road crew - and are kept "on the clock" - as road crew - when they respond to a fire call. That's not a bad model if the road crew member is interested. That's not always the case.

Another model that has been used out west is to use prison labor. While out west, they use prisoners for wildland fires, it's not inconceivable to outfit a low-risk prisoner with a tracking ankle bracelet that's associated with a fire station and some apparatus, and have them trained as firefighters, or at least as apparatus operators (which would be a big help). Sure, it seems radical, but then again, could it work? Maybe. We have the largest prison population in the world, maybe there's an option here to provide a needed service and to teach a needed skill.

The point is that the model we currently have, which is to activate the pagers and hope for the best is failing so fast that it's clear that in 10 years, there can't be anything like what we have now. And for some of us, the end of the volunteer service is already here.

Yes, you're right about that. It would be something of a compromise between full time staff and all volunteer. It definitely wouldn't work in all cases.

Volunteer systems work, maybe, in communities where folks work in the community, rather than commute, and work at jobs with the flexibility to respond to the batlight. Not many communities like that anymore. We live in a service economy that requires employees to stand the watch, and not leave to save lives. Price of economic change.

Add to that the steady attrition of rural community hospitals in favor of larger centralized medical centers, and you have nowhere to go and no way to get there. Loss of community hospital ER's concentrates the work at the remainder, as does the increasing number of uninsured, un-doctored patients for whom the ER is the only available source of primary care. The ER's are burdened beyond the capabilities of personnel and physical plant, so they go on 'bypass'-they stop accepting ambulance patients. Excess capacity in in-patient hospitals has been systematically eliminated, resulting in hospitals that reach max capacity and stop accepting admissions and stop doing elective surgeries. This becomes a crisis in most hospitals during the flu season. Add any sort of mass casualty incident and the whole system will stop working.

Only twice in all that time? Wow, I go through several a year...

-Blast

"...when you need them, you REALLY need them..."

Yes you do. And one thing to keep in mind is that the extinguisers you buy at the hardware store, etc, don't last long at all. A few squirts and you are done. So you have to get on a fire fast, when it is still small, hit it at the right spot first shot, and hope a lot...

Same problem here. But we do pay volunteers for there time in training and when they are called up. It's not uncommon that volunteers this country will be payed a small volunteers fee. The fire service will often also make arrangements to pay the company's where the volunteers are working at, so they will be less reluctant to release them. It will costs money, but it sure is cheaper than having payed professional firefighters.

I have seen plenty of initiatives to get more volunteers. Some firestations even sent everybody in the workable age in town a personal letter, asking them to join. Another station is trying to get the housewife's, etc...

I think the problem is getting worse, and affecting even the professional fire/ems services. Locally, fire, ems and even police cannot fill vacancies because of the lousy pay. Nor do they have the equipment to do their job. Fire, ems and police budgets not only don't grow, but get cut. IMO, the most basic and important local government services are being slowly strangled by lack of funds. No one seems to mind, except them.

Our HOA has to spend a big part of its budget hiring off-duty police to provide security. There had been several instances of major vandalism, and we needed coverage the police simply could not provide. I've tried for 8 years to get a "neighborhood watch" program set up, but no one wants to get involved. While I agree with most of the anti-HOA things said, credit to ours for recognizing a problem and spending $$ on it.

OTOH, there was a lot of favorable publicity when the county executive opened a new "doggie park." After all, the dogs needed a place to play . . .

sorry if that last comment sounds bitter.

"...No one seems to mind..."

Well, John Doe Citizen sure minds, when he/she doesn't get the level of service desired. They scream like a banshee. But they also are the first to gripe when taxes are raised to pay for that service.

10-4 on the doggie park comment...

I am very fortunate to live in a small city (20,000) that has had an outstanding volunteer fire department for many years. The department is in the process of transitioning to a full time paid department. While our department is very well equipped and its members well trained, I know that is not the case in many rural volunteer departments. Several volunteer departments have discontinued service because their equipment is so old and broken down that it is dangerous. Many residents of these areas refuse (or cannot afford) to pay the annual "fire dues" that fund the department. I suspect most of those good folks would easily come up with the money if their house were actually on fire! It is sad that volunteers are willing to do the work, face the risks, and help raise money, but there is little community support for what they do. The increase in their homeowner's insurance premiums would easily help fund these small departments.

Several times a year? Maybe Blast is a good descriptive name…

You have no idea

-Blast

That story still brings tears to my eyes.

I almost moved into a neighborhood that had this same problem. Its a paradoxical thing nowadays. If a neighborhood in Houston has any crime, people just move out. Hey, its a lot easier than donating a few hours a week, and you get a shiny new house! (yes, thats sarcasm).

Of course, all generalities are false, I am only speaking about what I have been personally exposed to.

Martin, I wouldn't be surprised if this "lack of neighborhood watch" parallels the same problem with the VFDs, and if your article turns into a book this could be a related sidebar.

I have never understood from the beginning how volunteer firefighters and EMTs manage to do what they do. The criteria must be astounding, and there can't be many who fit:

1. Have a job that pays well enough so you can volunteer.
2. Have a job that allows you to leave on a moment's notice.
3. Live, work and volunteer all in the same area.
4. Have a spouse that doesn't b***h about the dangers and your absenses from birthday parties and ball games.
5. Be in good enough health to do the job.
6. Pay for your own training.

Just the logistics of making it all work must be staggering.

The cost of the war in Iraq is currently about $648 BILLION dollars, with no end in sight.

The number of fire departments in the U.S. in 2006 was 30,635.

If you divided those billions by the number of fire departments (less those on Long Island, of course), they would each get over 21 million dollars.

But our 545 People have other priorities.

Sue

Well i'm don't about the situation in the US, but in europe the divorce rate with fireman are a lot higher than average...

A lot of young bucks got into the VFD because it gave them a way to get out of high school. Once they passed the initial training and application process they were issued a beeper. When it went off they would bow out of class and drive to the FD. They usually kept their bunker gear in their vehicle.

It was pretty well known that with a little sweet talk and casual bribery a guy in the VFD could get the dispatcher to beep them to get them out of tests they were unprepared for or particularly odious events. The school policy was that membership in the VFD was a community benefit and was to be accommodated. Employers were generally sympathetic to the need for regular training and occasionally trot off to an emergency.

The VFD was something of a civics club. They participated in all parades, were on hand at all major celebrations, and had annual fire safety awareness events at schools and the mall.

Once a guy got into the VFD the tendency was to stay involved for a very long time. Being part of the VFD can be addicting. After they got too old or otherwise involved many people would join the auxiliary or shift to supervisory rolls.

Why not join a department? Might be interesting for you.

Two jobs, two daughters, one wife, and no time.

However, I am joining the local CERT and will start those classes in September. At least I can do something.

-Blast

Not in our district. Pagers not even issued if you're in school. Also, you can't get a full Fire I cert unless you're 18 now - no live burn training, and no hydraulic tools for those under 18. Nevermid that these "kids" can kick my ass and are smarter than can be. They are "children".

We lost TWO barns on Monday morning, 11AM (first structure fire lit the second) because (among other things) there were only 2 adult firefighters around. We had 6 juniors, all off from school and in the area - none of them were allowed to respond because none of them were "old enough" to operate apparatus and the engine that rolled only has 2 seats. They drove to the firehouse, put on their bunker gear, and watched the smoke from the station.

in mine country, many firedepartments has a youth section, for children below 18 years of age. Volunteers would teach them the basics, have competitions and just let them play with firefighting equipment (they usually get the old stuff). They will not be exposed to real fire training or any of that. It's a way to bond people to the fireservice. Many youth member will become real fireman when they get older.

I know of one town, who will actually pay children in there youth department an actual (children)wage, so they would join the youth section more easy, instead of working in a supermarket or something. If they manage to get through the selection, they can even get a job guarantee when they turn 18. All that to hopefully bonding the to the fireservice, so they can join.

On on hand I support and believe in professional training, standards and firm, simple rules.

But rushing toward an all-professional and adult FD when the manpower, or finances aren't in place to support it leaves gaps that put property and even the most professional firefighters at risk.

In building trades most states used to maintain what they termed the 'ratio'. The ratio of licensed journeymen and either helpers or apprentices. Three to one was popular. Which means you could have three unlicensed people for every one licensed.

Perhaps firefighters could benefit from a similar system. Perhaps a one to one ratio. One adult and fully trained firefighter for each underage or not fully trained one. Limit the age to above 16, good grades and having passed a basic training and practical application course.

Just an idea.

Of course, on the other side, the general thought in firefighting seems to be that buildings and property are expendable. Rebuild with insurance. Lives are more important and firefighters are not encouraged to take risks. In part because the cost of even a minor injury, or worse a serious injury or death, pretty much sinks the FD, possibly even the county, budget.

OT: IMHO this might change if the nation had national health care. The US pays twice, sometimes three times, what most western nations pay for the same treatments. This ripples through the economy and nation. What we have isn't working.

Boy, reading this is eye-opening! To my mind, the last place to cut spending should be fire/EMS. Emergency Services are at the top of the list of what "government" should do.

"To my mind, the last place to cut spending should be fire/EMS. Emergency Services are at the top of the list of what "government" should do."

I have noticed over many years that when the state/county/city currently feels "monetary stress" and cut/reduce services, the services they cut are the most visible ones: fire, EMTs, police officers, libraries, parks, etc. This happens too frequently to be an accident. It seems to be a standard response, to "teach" the taxpayers a lesson. I find this especially offensive when it comes shortly after the bureaucrats have voted themselves raises.

You practically never heard them say, "We've got a shortfall of funds for the next year, so we're eliminating some non-essential jobs in management".

Sue

I'm curious, if the "kids" can't go and actually help fight fires, why do they have turnouts and why do they respond to the fire station?

By the way, I'm not condoning using children to fight fires, or as EMS providers either.

If a person isn't old enough to enter into a contract and can't be held legally liable for their actions, they have no business fighting fires, responding to EMS calls or driving emergency vehicles IMHO.

John E