Paradigm shift

DD1 expresses interest in marksmanship. She's 10.

Retired NCO (non commissioned officer--me) decides, based on previous training, to provide DD1 with air rifle & training.

DW (or D@!, depending on key/finger posisition, or attiude) argues that DD1 should learn 1) to throw a rock first (accurately) --to which I grumped, area vs. fixed target?, and to , then, learn the bow.

To me, this is back-asswards. In the military, rifle was first, followed by machine-gun, followed by pistol. In rare instances, we were trained in rocks.

It is arguable that rifles are easy to use, and rocks, difficult.

Should I train DD1 in rocks, first? Move on to flat trajectory?

I would think: rocks, slingshot, sling, Bow & arrows, BB gun & knife, pellet rifle & sword, .22cal rifle/.22cal pistol & start Martial Arts, .410ga shotgun, in that order.

THEN start with a M-79 40mm grenade launcher(grenade, willy petes, and buckshot), M-60, BMG .50cal, 20mm Oerlikon, followed by the 25mm Hughes, 40mm single, twin, or quad Bofors, 3".50cal Dahlgren up to the 16".50cal Dahlgren would be the correct order of training.

Ask me and I can tell you where you can find the large calibre stuff to play on.

If DD1 is a recruit, then rigorous training ala Wildman800.

If DD1 is a beloved volunteer, then find out what she wants and negotiate a short course of study in whatever strikes her fancy. See how it goes, consult with the vounteer, and negotiate a new short course of study. Repeat.

Find a great martial arts instructor who isn't you and support a long term comittment eventually with weapons training options, including archery.

I'd go straight for the guns! There are a few kids her age at the gun club and they really enjoy plinking around. The girls tend to shy away from guns a bit more. They are quite wide-eyed about the whole thing. And once peer pressure sets in -- well most girls don't shoot. . . . There are a few girls in the kids archery group as well. I wish I had started at 10 and not my late 30's.

I'm pretty reasonable shot with my guns, but not much of a marksman with a rock. That's because I throw like a girl (and I can say that because I am one).

My first inclination was to go straight to pellet rifles (how does one mount a bayonet on a Crossman?!), this is where I got into trouble with DW. Compared to the lowly rock, a rifle takes less practice (or skill, depending on your point of view) to grasp the fundamentals.

She's insisting that DD1 "prove" her interest in firearms by learning the basics of ballistics (rock, sling, bow, etc) first.

I'm still intrigued by such a course of study. Wildman, I like your syllabus! I'm qualified to teach the majority of the items involved (including sword--foil, epee, sabre), but will probably pass on the automatics for now, as she's 10, but will take her to a heavy weapons shoot to see if she's interested.

Nothing quite like watching a VW bug disentegrate

Your daughter is interested in something, she wants to learn it. Give her the chance to learn it.

You are basically saying; She wants to learn guitar, should I force her to go through piano lessons first? How would you like it if that was what you were told?

If she wants to shoot a rifle, teach her how to shoot a rifle... Definitely don't scare her away from it by forcing something else.

If she wants to learn more skills, then go from there...

She asked to learn how to shoot, not to become a weapons expert, much less an MI or an Operative from the Freehold of Grainne.

Let'er try shooting.

+1 on above - do what she ( your daughter) wants. Pick up the other skills later.

Sounds like a great idea to me!

Teach her to shoot, while she has the interest. The rock, bow, atom bomb can come later.

Be thankful she is showing an interest. Straight to a .22 rifle, go for maintaining a positive attitude.

I started my son at 10 with .22 rifles. He's now going on 13 and a pretty good shot. At 12 he went through the Hunter Safety Class as required by the state and did very well on the test as well as on the range. No doubt in my mind that the lessons at home were of much more value than the few hours of instruction he recieved at the class.

As for rocks, she can learn that skill on her own, little instruction (other than "proper" target identification) is needed.

One of my friends who shot a guy's eye out with his BB gun said he'd never give his kid one - he'd go straight to .22s because kids _will_ play with BB guns but not with .22s. shrug - I see no reason to divide up the training. No reason she can't shoot a gun, throw a rock, and learn a bow and arrow at the same time.

If your daughter has expressed an interest in marksmanship, start with what she's interested in and see how long it lasts. At 10, it may be 15 minutes, then on to violin.

I'd make sure to add something to the mix that has a fun factor to it. Balloons with baby powder in them is the most obvious. Instant gratification/positive feedback....FUN FUN FUN.

10-year-olds could care less about ballistics, arc-of-travel, BLAH BLAH BLAH. They (either gender) like to see things go POP!!.

Skip the rocks.

Rule 1: DW is always right.

Rule 2: If you forget rule 1, you will be reminded of it forever.

That sounds like someone advising another man to surrender to his wife. If you surrender once, she'll expect it every time.

You say that like it's wrong.

That she'll expect it, that's not wrong, but just surrendering, I've seen to many men do it and live lives that were not as happy as the stubborn and onery guys who simply do not surrender. I'd also say that the wives of those stubborn and onery guys also seem to be happier than those wives to whom their husbands had surrendered. If her fury allows her to get her way, you'll simply see her fury more often, imo. IMO, if her fury does her no good, then you are likely to see it less.

That may be well askew of the original topic of this thread, but it may also be a real paradigm shift for some.

Sheesh. Y'all don't seem to be up on proper handling.

The Japanese method: Nod and smile, while saying "yes". The aggressor always takes that to mean your agreeing. When in fact "yes" is a just a admitting to hearing what they are saying. Always agree but leave the agreement provisional. Never contradict. Always phrase any possible disagreement as "Yes, but...".

Also there is the classic American variation: "Yes dear". Once again the "yes" means that your listening.

When the admiral speaks you stop whatever your doing, look her in the eyes, pay attention. Women need attention but in return they can often thrive on just being listened to and taken seriously. After she has said her piece give her a smart "Yes" and do what you were going to do anyway.

I thought everyone knew those rules.

Here's an interesting idea. Why not treat women like people.

Ive seen DW and DD mentioned many times. What do they stand for?

Jeanette Isabelle

That works for me.

Jeanette Isabelle

Darling Wife & Darling Daughter

Always have treated women like "people" since by definition that's what they are....

Heck, I even treat men and dogs like people.

Cats, no.

I'm all for equality, but one can certainly see that men and women play by different rules during arguments.

I can honestly say, through experience, that I have learned that different people argue in different ways. It ranges from a female friend of mine who can argue me into the floor using pure logic any day (I really do like her!) to an ex-girlfriend who can argue herself in circles without any outside help from me (I really don’t like her!). To each their own.

I still hold by the definition of "people" that does not include cats.

Blast, no disrespect to Oz, but I'm not a big fan.

Causes me no end of grief with the DW/DD coalition, but I was actually relieved when one of the "outside kitties" expired.

I'm not a cold person, I paid to have this kitty spayed (& her offspring neutered) , kept her fed, warm in the winter, fed her kids and kept them the same; but, we have our own beloved pets.

It's oft been said that dogs have owners, and cats have staff...I am not a staff person, I guess.

Current Pet-O-Phile: 2 inside cats (one from northern Cali and one from okie land), dog (breed: attention hound), fish (multiple varieties), and a rat named "hamster".

didn't mean to ramble...but I guess I do miss Mau.

Unfortunately, in this country atleast, the tendency seems to be for women to treat men as animals who need to be trained. While men treat women as volcano goddess who must be placated but generally ignored. I'd say whatever works for people, but based on what I see on TV, I really doubt it works for anyone.

Probably not the best idea to base anything on what's on TV. Not sure where you live but where I live we treat others as we would want to be treated. We don't have a need to dominate anyone. We help each other, and by that I mean we do what needs to be done without assigning gender to each task or keeping score.

Sounds like a good way to live. I hope I didn't lead you to believe I base either my life or views of other people's lives on TV. My theory though is that if I see a concept on a sitcom or the news, its probably not a successful strategy. On the topic of TV, you do have to wonder how much of TV is art imitating life, or just as scary how much of life is starting to imitate art.

I don't really spend alot of time watching tv. Seems like a big waste of time. I'd much rather experience life for myself rather than watch someone elses concept of it.

The creepiest thing happened yesterday regarding my missing cat. We assumed she was killed by a big tomcat that's been beating up all of the outside kitties. She'd been gone for days and we'd written her off. Right after I posted the message about her, I went outside to get some tomatoes from the garden...and there she was. Not a scratch on her.

Not a dry eye in the house after that.

Anywho, thank you, kitty guardian angels.

I'm glad your kitty came home safe. Sometimes they just need a vacation. I think they take little trips like that just to check out what the neighbors are feeding their cats.

I think I do.

Isn't what was discussed people skills?

I really don't think that men or women often want all the things they say they want. We want others to set limits for us, and others want us to set limits for them. Which is why I would never tell a amn to surrenderall to his wife.

I will not allow limits set on me by anyone,no exceptions.I'm not about to let someone else decide what it takes to be me. I also don't want to be responsible for anyone elses life. If your an adult then you know what the limits are. IMO, No one should surrender to anyone else unless thats what they want to do, in which case, I don't see it as surrendering so much as I see it as just agreeing.

That is good to hear. I don't know the age of your cat; if she is still around when she dies, you can give her a proper memorial. I regret not being able to do that for Sunset when she disappeared in November.

Jeanette Isabelle