Food Caches

Being a resident of NYC, for at least the time being, with property in the suburbs, one of my thoughts with regard to being prepared for a serious disaster would be to have food cached. As the surburban house is about to get torn apart, it is not a place I can readily store thigns and expect them to be there when I need them. Carrying all the food I might need for more than a few days is simply not an option. I can and have enough in our apt. that I think we could eat for a month. But if I need to grab the BOB and bug out, a few days of meals will be in it and not much more. Having something hidden or cached and being able to access it, might be a life saver.

My thoughts right now are to use some food grade buckets, with some grains and legumes (converted white rice and beans) as staples, supplemented by some freeze-dried veggies and maybe some other things. I think one five gallon bucket could end up supplying enough to feed me for a while, and then I will be sick of whatever I've cached. If I put 2 gallons each of beans and rice into a cache, that would provide about 40,000 calories, approx. 20,000 each, according to my calculations. That could feed a couple people for a while.

Just looking for some thoughts on caching food for if and when something happens. Is burying a five gallon buckt with rice and beans a good or the right solution? What else would you put in or add to a cache?

well one thing I would do is mark the coordinates with a gps and make sure you avarage it! this function should be avaliable, just read the users manual

> use some food grade buckets, with some grains and legumes (converted
> white rice and beans) as staples

I'm confused. Are these going to be in Manhattan? Where are you going to cook? With what? In what? ... etc.

First let me say that I am completely unfamiliar with New York so this may or may not be an option for you but you may want to consider renting a small climate controlled storage space. I have two of them in different locations that I keep supplies at.

The downside is that there is an ongoing cost with monthly rent but the upside is that my supplies are stored in a dry, dark place that is maintained at 70 degrees year round and I have 24 hour access. Another plus is that it is very easy to rotate out goods that expire, etc.

Just an idea...

I am not seeking to cache food in Manhattan, right now. If the stuff in the apt. runs out, I should have left long ago. If I do this, it will be in a suburb, probably on our property. I can drive there in less and an hour, traffic permitting, and also get there via mass transit. There is a house, but soon it will be nothing but framing. The house is not an option, but the land on which the house is located is an option.

If I make it to a cache with my and/or DW's BOB, then I should be able to cook. Each BOB has something I could cook in and a few things with which one could start fires.

The storage area is a good idea, and we do have one. I'll be in it this weekend, so I should add some food to it.

The 0idea is to locate a cache of some food outside of NYC, in an area to which DW and I are likely to flee should the need arise, and be able to eat for some time solely consuming the cached food.

I've got other options in this area, like some gear with which I could try to obtain meat, fish, etc. and more importantly friends and family on which I think I could rely. It is not the only thing on which I would seek to rely. But I'd want to make it as complete and reliable as possible.

Hi Dan,

Is this a question of caching where or caching what? or both?

On the "what to cache" perspective:
Since this is long term you will want to look at your nutritional requirements. Requirements missing from your cache list above are water, fat and micronutrients (vitamins and minerals). Water is absoultely critical if you are going to store freeze dried meals or dry grains. DR has some recommendations on that here.

A bottle of multivitamins can cover most deficiencies in micronutrients in your diet but fat is a problem. Fat goes rancid/toxic relatively fast (approx 1 year storage if the ideal conditions are met) and has to be rotated relatively frequently.

Other considerations, if you go to the time and expense of cacheing supplies you may as well provide something to cook on/with and a clone of your bug out gear. Again see Doug Ritter's advice here. If you end up not needing the extra gear in an emergency you can always trade/barter with it or give it to a poorly prepared friend/relative.

I read a great couple posts recently on a similar topic by a favorite blogger of mine:
1. Food storage 101
2. Food storage 101 part 2
3. Eating out of your pantry

Check it out and see if it helps with the "what" aspect. On the "where" I'm sure there are some military folks here on the forum that would have a better answer to that question. All I can think of is a trusted rural relative or a secure mini storage facility... although both of those options may not be ideal for you.

Good luck!
Cheers,
Nemo.

Thanks for the info.

How to store things (what kinds of containers, what kinds of places) and what to store I think were my main questions. Where, that's probably going to be on my own land, and maybe in a storage unit. Got some ideas.

If you lack walls to secure your food, try one of the on-site storage vendors, for probably $75/mo you get a 5x10ft steel storage box dropped to your worksite.

I covet (but don't own) one of those steel storage lockers you see around public playgrounds and soccer fields, where the soccer associations keep their materials to dress and maintain the fields. Usually very secure, also very expensive, $500+ when I looked into them. Although Home Depot sells a smaller version for on-site tool storage for ~$240.

Any of these wouldn't look out of place on a construction site.

Dehydrated beans are more expensive but much easier to deal with. Let 'em soak for 8-10 minutes and you're done. Equally important as your food stores is having a proven method of preparing them. Backpacking, I used to throw food in my pack and go, which brought about some unfortunate surprises. Fuel requirements, cooking times and methods, don't always work out like you planned. So I say whatever foods you're storing, practice preparing them just as you would in an emergency situation so there are no surprises.

Even being in NYC, I bet there are places to cache stuff. For example, lots of buildings have access to the roof, and many of those roofs may have sheds or something for repairs. Throwing in a bucket of food may well blend in, and no one will look twice at it. If you get involved in rehabbing areas (like those folks that go and make empty lots into gardens), you might be able to drop a little goody bag in as you plant a tree or something, since you've got a hole already dug. Abandoned cars still have trunks. Probably not the best area for visiting, but still a thought (even if you have to trudge into Jersey ) Those fake rocks that people store their keys in may be useful too, or the fake cleaning supply-cans that are occasionally found.

If you don't feel good about 5-gal buckets, what about ammo canisters from surplus stores? Not all are metal, if you're worried about scroungers with tools.

I'd add some TP. Maybe some baby wipes too. Bottle of soap or alcohol gel. More firestarting tools, some space blankets or something similar. Extra batteries for whatever you're carrying for light/radio/gps. Ammo, if you're carrying something for food procurement (or extra fishing line, hooks, etc). All of these are fairly small and shouldn't impact the space too much.

For food, add some dried fruit, nuts, maybe a bottle of vitamins and some pain killers (advil, tylenol, etc). I'd even add some junk food/goodies, just for pure comfort value. Consider some hot sauce or seasoning packets, since beans and rice gets real old, real quick.

i am looking at Storage Shipping container for an cache on some land i have aquired.



new york has a rather large port i believe perhaps it would be possable to buy a surplus one.

here in the uk you can get a 40 foot container for for as little as £400 in battered condition or a recon one for £850. the seller i have visited had containers from 12ft to 40ft in assorted conditions.

Hi Dan_McI,

If you are talking about storing plastic containers of any size in a shed or any other area subject to ANY rodents / vermin, then protect them in steel. Rats easily chew through plastic.

Look at the Mormons / Latter Day Saints websites to get more real and factual information on long term food storage information.

Regards,
Comanche7

Since the majority of cashes will be buried underground they will have to be packaged in a manner that the conditions they will be exposed to will have little or no effect. This generally means waterproofing. One possibility would be to use those plastic totes and tubs made for storage by manufactures such as Rubbermaid. This can also be done using various sized plastic buckets. These buckets are the kinds that are often used to ship large amounts of food product designed for commercial use. Pickle buckets if you will. To increase the sealing of these containers is to place a bead of silicon caulk around the rim before seating the lid. Inside individual items or groups of items can be placed in ziploc type bags or sealed in vacuum packing bags. For even another barrier the container can be lined with trash bags. You could wrap the entire container in an additional trash bag as another layer. One note about the trash bags is that many are impregnated with various chemical compounds. These are meant to control insects or odors. They should not be used in direct contact with food substances. In placing these require a great deal of digging to properly place them. And the attendant clean up to hide the fact the cashe is there.

The best cashe that I have encountered is the double PVC tube cashe. Not only is this one of the better designs for structural integrity. It is the easiest to bury and quickest to retrieve of any other type. The minimum size to be used is dependent upon two things. Diameter of the widest item you intend to put in and length by the longest item. In general the most common size would be a 4 inch inner tube about 3 feet long with a 6 inch pipe long enough to fit the around the inner tube. This is a nice size that would hold an adequate amount of supplies while being small enough to be easily transported without being clumsy also to require too much digging. Of course if you have items that you want to store that would not fit this size adjust the diameter or length as necessary. The only problem with PVC is that it degrades when exposed to UV light. Because it is buried this will not be a problem.

To build this type the first thing is to get the pieces needed. Cut the inner tube to length. The end that will be the bottom will be capped. In PVC this is a domed shape item that is glued over the end. At the other end you glue in place a collar called a clean out plug. This collar has internal threads that accept a screw in plug that will seal the tube. These plugs have a large square block on the outside. This is used to remove the plug. Because of the size the best tool to remove the plug is a strap wrench so it might be nice to carry one with you to open them. But if you don’t have one available there are ways to jury-rig a replacement. A leather belt or strip of webbing can act as the strap. Then a metal bar or even a strong stick can substitute for the handle and supply the leverage. If you are unsure that this plug will adequately seal the threads can be wrapped with plumber’s tape. Load the supplies and cap. The inner tube is ready to be placed in the outer tube. You can place a handle on this tube so that when the outer tube is opened you can pull it out. The outer tube is constructed basically the same way with a couple of minor additions. Added piece one is a small block glued inside the bottom end cap. This block would be about a half to one inch thick. This acts as a standoff so the inner tube does not get stuck to the bottom of the outer tube. It makes life a little easier. The other change is a small tube is glued from top to bottom on the inside of the tube. Steel brake line is ideal for this but any other small-ridged tube would work. The purpose of this is that if the outer tube should leak and fill even part way with water could form a hydraulic lock. The resultant vacuum that could be formed could make it nearly impossible to pull out the inner supply tube. The small tube acts as a vent to allow air into the bottom breaking any possible vacuum.

With the cashe tube assembled and loaded it is time to plant it in a selected location. Once at the spot you need to dig the hole. First cut an area of sod larger than the desired hole. This plug is set aside to be replaced when you are finished to hide the hole. Then place sheets of plastic around the proposed hole. This is to catch the soil dug up. Some will be returned to back fill the hole the rest can be removed for disposal so that it does not reveal the location of the cashe. You then use an auger just large enough to produce a hole the tube will fit into. The auger can be hand powered for quiet if stealth is needed when placing the cashe. Or if noise is no problem you can use a power auger for easier digging. Dig the hole to the depth so that when the tube is in the hole the top is far enough down to avoid detection. If it is in a location where nothing is expected to disturb the earth 6 inches to a foot should be adequate. If it would be in something like a field that could be plowed you would have to go deeper. Once the hole is finished lower the tube into the hole. Back fill with the dirt dug up and tamp it down firmly. The tamping is necessary to prevent the spot from settling as much that could reveal the cashe to the curious. When this is completed replace the sod plug to hide the hole. Cart away any excess dirt. Move on to the next cashe location and repeat.

Why do I consider this a superior type of cashe? With the double tube construction the stored supplies are very well protected. Drilling a hole with an auger is much easier, faster and produces a much smaller footprint than a dug hole for other types. Being vertical even if it contains metal it would be harder to detect with a metal detector. They will be quicker and much easier to recover. Instead of digging out and/or unpacking a conventional cashe you only have to dig down far enough to expose the top. You then unscrew the top grab the handle and pull the inner tube out. At this point you can open the tube and empty it or tuck the tube and scurry away with the whole thing to a better location. One ideal location for this type of cashe is under a preexisting fence post. Pull the post dig the hole deeper place the tube backfill some and replace the post. The fence post will hide the cashe yet act as a marker when you need to recover it. If you do not want to remove a post you can dig beside the post for placement. One nice thing about using fence lines is that even if something happens to a fence other than the complete deliberate removal you should be able to track where a specific post was. This is because of the even spacing of most posts if some remain you can count the missing spaces. I have seen sites that have been abandoned for many years. The fences have decayed away. There will still be some post stumps left and you can pretty much tell where the missing ones were.

Just thinking out loud.

The storage area is a good idea as long as there is electricity, loose it and the computer that reads your entry code or card is off. And the power gate will not open. And the person that runs the place may have bugged out or if they are there they may not let you in without being able to confirm you have a right to be there (and this would require the computer that’s not working.)

This may leave you without food & survival items and the dilemma of deciding if you should break into the storage place. This would be illegal I’m sure and may make you the focus of the police who may consider you a looter. And at the very least you would be taken away for questioning and probably be charged for trying to break in.

More thinking out loud...

Where I live (South Dakota), any underground cache is going to be either innaccessible or extremely difficult to recover for 5-6 months out of the year. How many people have actually tried to excavate frozen soil? From personal experience, it's like chipping through concrete. It took a couple of us with 6 foot iron bars a couple of hours to 'dig' a 30cm/1 foot diameter hole through a foot of frozen soil.

Even if you reach the top of your PVC pipe, if it's frozen in place, you won't be able to retrieve the contents without the inner/outer tube method. How much bigger will your hole have to be to accomodate a strap/pipe wrench to open the outer pipe fitting? (Lots, which means even more work digging)

Also, while the cache location might be easily located in August, will you be able to relocate it under 2-4-8 foot deep snow drifts? For anyone who lives where the ground freezes, even for a short time, I don't think underground caches make a lot of sense.

Murphy says the cache will be frozen when you need it most.

Another thought - if things are so bad you need to access your cache, you're going to leave a lot of evidence (dark soil on white snow) that someone just recovered a bunch of hidden supplies - not a good idea.

Storing/hiding supplies in walls, with friends, family, 'in plain sight' - anywhere but underground would be a much better option in the snow belt.

Another storage idea that has worked for my brother is an old travel trailer. He has an old trailer (made in 1973) it’s 27-foot long. He does not use it for camping any more. The place he stores it wants $50.00 for a storage place that 4 foot wide by 10 foot long and 7-foot tall. But they charge only $20.00 to store a travel trailer per month. He uses it to store all kinds of things and it holds a lot more then the small storage area that cost more then twice as much. You can put a lot of food & supplies inside a 27-foot long trailer.

I have been wondering if I should bury food or store it in the house. We own a home on four acres in rural Ct. The question has been bothering me for awhile. If we needed to get out of the area quickly and a portion of my stock were buried on the property, would I be able to get back if I needed to survive on it? In the case of fallout or chemical release we would have to stay put so I would need everything in that cellar area.I have everything I need to keep a family of four going for almost a year and still building. I even have non-genetically altered seeds specially packed for planting up to 10 years. What advice would you give? I had even thought of someday buying a small parcel in a designated area further north in a safer area, and put part of it there.

The problem with burying anything, especially perishables is that you can't easily get to it. And depending on the time of year, snow, rain, etc, it could become a major problem. I like the idea others had about hinding stuff in plain site. Using the hollow space between a wall, intentionally mis-labeling the storage container and piling a bunch of seemingly useless stuff over it, etc, etc. Or if you wanna get really fancy you could always make a fake wall in a closet or cellar with a few feet of storage space behind it. Won't be foolproof but I guess nothing ever is.

1. 2x6 walls, semi anchor a bookcase/cabinet to the wall covering it. Mirrors work too.
2. Put items in old plastic 5 gal paint buckets, put them in a corner, throw a couple tarps and old roller covers on/beside them.
3. Remove floor boards, place items between joist, replace boards and cover with carpet.
4. Install fake duct work in basement.
5. Plastic 55 gal drums with sections cut out of the sides with weather stripping, hinges and hasp installed, bury just below surface, this way items can be removed easily, make sure you only store items that aren't subject to freezing depending on the area you live.
6. If you have a basement, cut out a section of the floor, dig out dirt, replace with waterproof container of some sort, place steel shelving/frig, washer etc. over opening, load shelves with light items making it easy to move.


If you don't tell people you have stored stuff most likely you won't have to worry.

You could always make sure you have some items in excess,like a dummy supply, lets say items you wouldn't really need, to offer as a token contribution, diverting attention away from your real preps.

False walls in closets and under stairs, make sure to add trim and moldings to add to the effect. Make sure not to make the area behind to deep that it draws attention.

Just a few random thoughts.

One other thing that jumped out to me right away was the calorie count. I have not looked into how many calories there would be in a 5 gallon bucket full of rice or beans, but assuming you are a normal sized man, you will require about 2200 calories in a day, if you are relaxing and not doing much. If you are having to do things that require a large amount of energy, that can go as high as 4000 calories. That means that the 40,000 calorie store you mentioned would only last you 10 days. If there are two of you, even less than that. I would find a calorie counter and try to figure out how many calories (approximately) you would require in a day, doing the types of things you would expect to do in a survival situation, and then figure out how much food you are going to need to make it for the duration you are expecting. I was surprised to see how many calories it took to maintain yourself on a backwoods hike, with 45lbs pack in the cold. If you walk for a total of 6 hours, and perform basic camp chores, you will be in the high 3000s. One other factor to throw in there is that you should maked these calculations based on ideal weight. In other words, if you are overweight, you will start losing your excess while eating the calculated diet, but within a short period of time, you should arrive at your ideal weight and be able to maintain it.

Hope this helps,

Smackdaddyj