Why I don't carry a gun

I was reading a different thread (Equipping the "indoor-type") and was amused by the discussion regarding carrying a gun.

I am a small female. I do not carry a gun, and I probably never will. DH has taken me out shooting several times with borrowed hand guns. For some strange reason he seems to think that I am a decent shot. I have also held several shotguns and rifles, but never fired one. I am no longer afraid of the idea of having guns in the house.

However, I doubt that I would even use a gun, even if our house were invaded and my life were threatened.

Here's my philosophy on what to do if I have a useable gun in my hand when I'm in a threatening situation:
Empty the clip / chamber as fast as possible, probably by firing the gun. Possibly firing the gun in the general direction of the enemy, but quite likely not.

Since I am a small wimp, my goal would be to render the gun unusable by the enemy. If an assalant got within arm's reach of me, I would be easily overpowered and the gun taken from me. When that happens, I don't want the gun to be loaded.

Does anyone else share my views on what to do with a gun when threatened? Can anyone point out any serious flaws with my plan? I've discussed the matter with DH, and he accepts my plan, but I can tell that he doesn't like it.

-Kuovonne

I'll agree with you that if you do not have the proper mindset to use a gun (and many people don't), and the dedication to become reasonably proficient with it, then generally speaking you are far better off without one. Kudos to you for recognizing that. You may change your mind someday however, so at least keep going with your husband as much as you can.

I'm not an SD expert but from what i've been told there is a rule of thumb that if you draw a weapon, the situation has to be so dire as to require that level of force to stop the attacker. If you are not going to need that, then don't show it. In your situation, if there was that level of threat and you aren't willing to shoot the attacker, don't go for the gun, don't even acknowledge it's existence. Drawing it, and not using it would only make things worse i would think, especially if it were taken from you. Even if you weren't shot, the attacker might use it on someone else.

Having a gun around is a serious undertaking. It requires that you have thought through what you would do, in what situations, with a review of the law in your area and how you would deal with the consequences, legal, emotional and moral. It's like a baby, you have to know where it is at all times, what condition it's in etc. Then, if you have decided that you are willing to go as far as shooting someone else to protect yourself or others 'within your mantle of protection' you need to practice so that you can do it when called upon.

I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of my guns. I used to think, when i was younger, that these issues and decisions were simple and that i would be able to do it if need be. This was around the time of the LA riots and i was glad to have them then. Now i'm not so sure, and in that case, having the weapons around is only a liability.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

Very well said, mate... you can't see it through the monitor, but I'm giving you a thumbs up <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

The only flaw I see is that being the small wimp that you imply, you might need the gun to defend yourself, while a bigger & stronger intruder/bad guy might not. He can beat you to death with most any blunt object or even with his fists if he's of a mind. Your handgun may be the only thing you have to prevent that from happening. By giving the bad guy an unloaded gun you've just donated a blunt object for him to use.

If you have the mindset, a gun is a great equalizer and can help you to prevent blunt objects from coming into use. It's all about mindset. Either use the gun as Sam Colt intended, or lock it in a safe and forget it's there.

BTW, after he's finished with you, he can always get some ammo and make the gun usable again. Maybe not against you, but his next victim will have you to thank. Some people really do need to be shot, think of it as a community service. $.02

My suggestion would be to try a Martial Arts class. It will give you a good base in awareness, focus and self confidence. After that, the step to firearms won't seem so daunting. After all, firarms are just another martial art.

IMHO, there are too many people out there, who think because they have a gun, and maybe even carry a gun, that they are prepared for a situation where they may need to defend themselves or a loved one in a real life threatening situation. Some of these folks are the same people who buy the latest-greatest handguns, super-illumination devices and maybe a laser.... Put your toys away; learn how to shoot, learn the situations when to shoot.

I believe without the proper training, most of these well intentioned individuals are more dangerous to themselves and innocent bystanders than to a threat. Those who own guns should be required to have extensive training. While learning about the possible need for a weapon is intimidating and may bring on paranoia....("...who's that guy in the quickstop counter, is he robbing the place or is that just Snickers bar he's pointing at the clerk....") it's all a part of the learning process.

Look at the odds of falling into such a situation, then decide if you want to learn the skills needed to handle a gun in a defensive situation. The chance of this happening to you is slim. Do you want to be prepared, just in case? Or do you want to play the odds. If you want to learn to be prepared, you'll also need to learn how to read situations that might warrant the use of a firearm. While you are learning this, learn all your state and local laws as well as real-world play acting of situations. What is right, what is not.... (If you offered play acting in a room with Prosecuting Attorneys, Police and lawyers.... I'll bet you would not get one definitive answer from anyone. There's too many variables.) You are preparing for an unknown situation.

What brought me to this mind-set? I wanted to get a business associated CCW, a carry permit. I was a proficient handgunner....I thought....wrong. There's a huge difference shooting at a still target, with lots of time to aim, then there is in a real defensive situation. I have been in training now, specific to defensive pistol use for a year and a half; and the more I get to know about the subjects, the more training I feel I need.

Going out and shooting twice or even three times weekly, will help ready a person, (to a point) with the initial skills needed. Start out slow; maybe with a .22, just to learn trigger-control, sight and target acquisition.
After a couple of months, start shooting center fire pistols. Again learning trigger control and sight acquisition. When you think your getting good, find a group that practices defensive pistol training..... keep going.....It's a whole new game. Getting tactical training through Associations like IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) is a must.

Keep in mind, if a situation arises where you may need a gun, you'd better know your equipment, be familiar with your decision-making process to make the right choice, and follow through in a stressful situation, all in a split second. Otherwise the outcome will not be good.

Sorry for the dissertation; for me, it's a very important subject, as it should be with every gun owner IMHO.

Good advice Malpaso. There are a number of non-gun related self-defense options.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

"If an assalant got within arm's reach of me, I would be easily overpowered..."

It's the "what happens next" that is what you should consider. Is it worse to defend yourself, or is it worse to let someone do harm (or worse) to you.

"I doubt that I would even use a gun, even if our house were invaded and my life were threatened."

You seem to be implying that you think that your life is not worth defending with lethal force. I however, think otherwise, and I would defend YOU with lethal force if necessary. Any life is worth protecting. (and predatory criminals should be instantly killed...) You deserve your shot at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Smart people, long since dead, thought so.

It may be helpful to think about things from another perspective. If your husband's life were threatened, would you want him to defend himself, or would you want him to just accept his fate - whatever that may be? Your answer is likely how he feels about you. If you think that you'd want him to fight back, isn't it fair to prepare to do that yourself?

My wife is not that big, but she knows which end of a pistol is the friendly end and which is the angry end. I would not call her an expert by any stretch, but she was sworn in as a Deputy anyway.

Should you wish to rely on a firearm as defense, you need to practice with it. A lot. Until you hate practicing with it. Read books from Gabe Suarez. Practice more.

If you choose that it is not for you (and that's no stigma) then you may want to make sure that your firearms are locked-up so they are not stolen or used against you. Get a safe. Then consider another defense. This could be reinforcing your bedroom door and windows and creating a safe area. (Have a cell phone handy for 911.) Or it could mean getting out of the house immediately if you hear a strange noise.

Honestly though, if you are a small person, there is no greater equalizer than a firearm in trained (and small) hands. Your life has much greater value than the life of a predatory criminal intent on doing you harm. Really.

"The Lord made men, but Sam Colt made them equal”. Supposedly said about Sam Colt, But I am unable to find anything else about it.

Not TV, the police reports in the paper.

Are you being serious?

You have some personal ethical issues and mindset about a potential assault on your person. The presence or lack of any inanimate object; firearm or other has little impact on that more important tool. I would suggest contacting your local police about any community opportunities to improve your personal awareness. You need to become proactive about your safety. Weaponry is a often poor solution to unknown dangers. The USA with the world's largest nuclear arsenal was successfully attacked on 9/11 with box cutters. And now, as a note to contributors. This thread has allready spun into a cat's cradle of inappropriate posts. My moderator's arsenal of options is fully loaded.

No matter what your sex or size, call on me and I will equalise." - Samual Colt's original advertising slogan. Which is why a pistol is often refered to as an "equaliser."

"I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of my guns."

I'll be happy to relieve you of their burden! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I could just throw in a quick comment.

If you have made a personal decision, thought is through, then don't let other people tell you differently if you feel strongly about it. Firearm ownership is not for everybody.

But, burgler alarm ownership can be for everybody (renters might have to think twice, though), and dog ownership might also be a good idea, depending on house/apartment, schedule, and allergies.

An alarm will let an intruder know that police are likely on the way, and a properly trained dog will let an intruder know that he should pick up the various parts of his anantomy and report to the hospital to have them re-attached.

I like firearms, but they are not the be-all and end-all of any situation. In order to use them, you have to be awake and in the proper frame of mind. Everybody reading this who has a gun by the bed had also better have a decent alarm system installed or have a sufficiently loud dog with sensetive ears to wake you up in case something happens.

I choose not to carry one for practical reasons; space, weight and cost. I use the space for water and clothes, the weight for extra food and the cost is much more than I would spend on the entire kit.

Its a balance

I think this all goes back to the basic idea that your mind is your best survival tool. Whatever your choice of equipment and techniques, practice it before you need it. I have studied martial arts for many years, as well as doing a stint in the military, and have come to view self-defense as just one more survival skill. IMHO, if there was just one correct way, everybody would be doing it.

Nice post. The most well thought out response--both for and against having a firearm--that I've read in a long time. I think it takes guts to declare in certain circles that you choose not to keep a firearm because you're liable to have all kinds of abuse heaped on you for such a stand. I choose not to have a firearm, whether for recreation or self-defense purposes.

Regarding the self-defense angle, it's a decision based on my circumstances, my perception of the odds of ever needing a firearm, my wife's wishes, and like Kuovonne, some thought into the other possible negative repurcussions of having a firearm in the house. I'm not saying no one should have a gun, but for me, right now, no thank you. But I'm also open to the possibility that that may change sometime in the future.

As you point out, not only do we need to take the risks into account, but also the tremendous costs involved in responsibly keeping a firearm for self-defense, particularly for concealed carry--in psychological commitment, equipment, time, and training. If Kuovonne doesn't feel comfortable with firearms and thinks that the possible negative outcomes of having one are unacceptable to her, fine. She's an adult who has thought through this and I applaud her for making the decision. There are other ways to address and mitigate the risks, as others have already pointed out.

And if someone wants to say, "Well, if she gets raped, it's her fault for not having a gun!" then I'd say, "Grow up". For one thing, you're blaming the victim. It's like blaming the people in the World Trade Center for not having antiaircraft missles or parachutes in their offices. And secondly, does that comment reflect the kind of society we want to live in? As much as some of us decry the "decline of civillization" and see chaos and attackers around every corner, most of us in the West live in relative affluence, peace, and freedom. Even so, sh*t happens occasionally, even to the most prepared of us--including the well armed--and when we're down, I would hope that the people around us would have a spirit of helping and understanding, rather than, "Tsk, tsk, you only have yourself to blame".

To me, the spirit of ETS is not just personal responsibility for myself, but also the willingness and compassion to jump in and help others in need. I think the recent Everest incident and leaving a climber behind is one example of this clash of ideals. Or Ors' recent post in Around the Campfire about the young lady with the flat tire. OK, she was incredibly clueless, but more importantly, thank goodness for people like Ors who made the effort to help.

I decided to carry a firearm after my local convenience store was robbed. The person stabbed the clerk in the head (nobody said crooks were smart). If I had been there, I would have had to make a decision to watch the clerk get possibly killed or intervene & possibly get stabbed myself. I decided that these two options were unacceptable. This was in the pre-cellphone days.

Wow! I didn't expected a response to my post.

Here's some clarification:

1) I do not carry a gun, and I am not interested in intensive training and practice. However, I have access to guns, as DH likes them. I should have mentioned this in my first post.

2) All of the guns that I have access to are securely stored. Other people in my situation might choose to pretend that the firearms aren't there; however, I don't feel comfortable doing so.

3) If I am threatened, I will not just let myself be killed. (I might let myself be robbed, but not killed.) First I'd try to get away, and if that failed, I'd resist. As others have pointed out, there are many ways of resisting.

4) I will probably never have a usable gun in my hands when under attack. If it happened, it would probably be because DH had a gun and became incapacitated before firing all the ammo. So, although it is a very unlikely secenario, it is possible, and I thought it worth pondering what I should do.

Hope that clears things up.

-Kuovonne

Thank you for that. Please consider having just enough training to get one round on target. And if all else fails - sell yourself as dearly as possible.

Hi,

I didn't read all posts and I don't CARRY a gun (coming from Germany is not always easy).

Here's my philosophy (I share it partly with you):

Empty the clip / chamber as fast as possible, be sure to hit/kill the enemy (you have to practice for this).

Repeat this while enemy is on two legs.

Result:

You killed/wounded all.

If not and you got overpowered:

1. There are no more shots left to be directed against you.
2. Practice harder

"For some strange reason he seems to think that I am a decent shot."

From what I've seen, females are much easier to teach shooting then males. They'll admit they don't know what they're doing and listen. Guys grow up watching shootem up movies and already know how to shoot, complete with bad habits and some ridiculous techniques. (Personally, I hope all the little gangstas learn to shoot from DMX and Vin Diesel. That silly sideways grip just gives me a better chance.)

I've had a CCW for years and would have no qualms if it came to a choice of me (or family and friends) and them. Remember, they're the ones that put YOU in that situation.

And finally, this is something that's already been alluded to: criminals rarely have just one victim. The victims can be numerous and spread out over years. A former girlfriend was badly raped in a parking garage. The night she told me about it she cried, not for herself but because he was still out there and some other girl would have to go through what she had to. Some people give up their rights to live by their actions, some people just need shooting.

>>>>"From what I've seen, females are much easier to teach shooting then males. They'll admit they don't know what they're doing and listen. Guys grow up watching shootem up movies and already know how to shoot, complete with bad habits and some ridiculous techniques. "

I've seen the same thing with boys vs men. At summer camp, we have an NRA certified instructor at the rifle and shotgun ranges. The boys come in listening to every word the guy says, because they know they don't get to shoot if they can't strip, clean, and reassemble the rifles, and pass the range safety tests. Once a week, however, we have Scoutmaster shoots, where all the "men" get to use the range. Even if you know what you're doing, why wouldn't you listen to a guy who has spent his entire life teaching how to use firearms. It's funny when you get one of the adults who has something basic like a misfire and they sit there for a while, not knowing what to do... (The rifles are old rimfire 22's, it's not uncommon for a misfire every hundred rounds or so) the kids listen and handle it fine, but, there's always some one of the adults that really should pay attention, but doesn't. They sit there, trying to pull the trigger over and over, usually with a bunch of young scouts on the benches watching... last year, one of the little tenderfoot scouts about 11 years old, said "mister ____, if you just open the bolt and close it again, it should fire ok."

That poor guy felt pretty small, and the range safety guy couldn't help but have a little smile. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Didn't expect a response? Gun usage/ownership/possession is one of those hot topics like religion and politics! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Probably because it involves those two at some point!

You've done the only thing most people ask of others: try something and see if you like it. You know guns exist, you know how they are used, and you know your limitations. The fact that you have acknowledge that you may have to use a gun after your husband has been incapacitated. I think this alone shows that you are intelligent enough to realize the world is a dangerous place, and bad things can happen. Living in a utopian mindset will only get you killed. Doesn't matter whether you choose to use the gun or not. Just the fact that you've gotten the facts and made your own informed decision, shows that you're using the best weapon you control. If you don't know what that is, please, step away from the firearm.

Gee, I leave town for a week and DW decides to kick the hornet's nest. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'll be the first to admit that I'm bummed she won't take a more active role in firearm defense. She can outshoot me with a little .380 semiauto versus me with my 9mm Taurus 92. Unfortunately, the Taurus is physically too large for her. There's a nice 20-guage pump shotgun in the gun safe with her name on it. I just haven't found the right magic words to get her to shoot it. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That being said, I respect her choices (even while actively working to undermine them) when it comes to armed defense. Currently, the chance of a home invasion at our house is slim to non-existant for several reasons. First we live in a relatively well-to-do neighborhood. There is crime here but 90% of it is bike theft. Second, our house is hardened against easy entry. The doors, door locks and windows have been upgraded to withstand being kicked in. Third, we have a monitered house alarm. Fourth, multiple baby gates with tricky locks seperate the bedrooms from the rest of the house (may seem weak, but are attached to wall studs with 4" screws). Fifth, this is Texas. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for out and about, she doesn't go to "bad" neighborhoods. Sure, crime can happen anywhere, but statistically if you aren't a young black dope-dealer it's unlikely you end up face down in a pool of blood.

When it looked like Hurricane Rita was going to hit Houston she took a refresher course from me on the guns. Scenes of Katrina were still being played on TV and she realized there was a potential for trouble. She wanted to be ready.

Finally, having ONCE decided to keep tickling her after she said stop I am completely confident in her ability to defend herself. I'm 14" taller and 80 lbs heavier than her, but suddenly I had a pissed-off cougar in my hands. It was three days before I could use my hand and a week before walking didn't hurt. I'm still not sure about the hearing in my right ear.

-Blast

RE: having a pissed off cougar on your hands......

Sounds a little like my wife. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Think back to the old TV series The Incredible Hulk. There was one line......

Mr Mcgee, don't make [her] angry.....you wouldn't like [her] when [she's] angry... <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She'll put up with a lot. She has after all kept me <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But you don't want cross her. I heard a great line once.....cross her and she's tougher than a 99 cent steak.

G_d do I love her.

Hi Kuovonne,

From one small woman to another, I applaud your sense of self. You know how to safely handle and correctly shoot a gun, so no one should fault you for making a conscious decision to stop there. I think it's great to be comfortable with yourself and your abilities.

My DH knows how to shoot, but he doesn't want to own anything other than his rifle, which we don't even keep in our home. I'm still learning the basics (very slowly), so I haven't the right to seriously consider gun ownership yet. When this changes, we might come up with our own plan of action for home defense in regards to the gun(s). There is a chance that we may never carry, and I can accept that.

The decision not to carry a gun is at least somewhat helpful for you to come up with other (perhaps better) ways of defending yourself to the maximum of your other abilities.

First, I would say that I'm glad to see you are thinking about it. Certainly step one. If you don't feel comfortable and your husband can't convince you to change your mind, then you are talking about a VERY specific situation in which he has been incapacitated while leaving a loaded gun behind. Chances are pretty slim, but so be it.

Second, I think you should address your estimation of yourself. My wife can sometimes come across with the same idea that she wouldn't be up to the challenge. I've found that having a child changes my mindset and I've seen it change hers. People can and should defend themselves with everything they are willing to use. Adding a child to defend into the mix makes this even more true.

Third, for you I would be less worried about an unarmed gun left behind and more focused on how you can improve your chances without it. I recommend taking a Women's Self-Defense course at your local gym/Y/shelter/sherriff's, taking martial arts (our class often gives Women's Self-D seminars) and generally rethinking your ability to disable someone who's bigger. I've seen a 90 pound 15 year old stop a 30 year old who was more than double his weight and probably 5 times his muscle mass. Do NOT count yourself out.

Sounds like you have the main stuff covered - alarm, secured house, etc., Dogs are good and Neighborhood watches are also not a bad idea. The only thing I'd really like to see you do is change your attitude... it seems like a "victim's" attitude. I should mention that criminals often pick up on that vibe since it spills over into actions and how you carry yourself.

Oh, and a whistle directly into an assailant's ear can incapacitate and startle enough to get away. It's just one of many non-lethal options open to you. So maybe research what you are comfortable using (especially in an enclosed space).

Your post is quite fascinating. I've run across your attitude in several other women, even friends. And I'm not wanting to sound nasty about this (really!), but... I get the impression that deep down, you are of the opinion that anyone's life is more valuable than your own. I just don't understand why some people, knowing how much true evil there is in the world, think that even the life of a whacked-out meth maggot is more precious than your own.

So your plan is to "Empty the clip / chamber as fast as possible... my goal would be to render the gun unusable by the enemy. I would be easily overpowered and the gun taken from me. When that happens, I don't want the gun to be loaded."

Why don't you want the gun to be loaded? Because they might kill you with it? But you've already made the decision to die, haven't you? You aren't making the incredibly dumb/silly assumption that if you don't cause trouble, he won't hurt you, are you? That old "turn the other cheek" crap of the ultimate victim? Will you beg for mercy from a psychotic right before he blows your head off? What makes you think that the guy isn't there to kill you from the get-go? Murder is NOTHING these days to many people-- it's like drinking a glass of water.

And would you think the same way if your SO was down, you were still up, and had a gun in your hand? Suppose you were babysitting for your sister or best friend --- would you be willing to "donate" the kids' lives, too?

Where do you draw the line?

I've always wondered (perhaps wrongly) that women who think that way might have been taught some behaviors that they just can't seem to break away from:

Dependence on someone else (daddy, brother, boyfriend, husband, total stranger resembling John Wayne) who will always be there to defend them from bad people and situations; or

That awful "be ladylike" mode that I was raised in back in the 50's (thankfully, it didn't take very well <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), where you were supposed to take whatever anyone dished out. IOW, the education of the ultimate victim.

Is it your highest purpose in life to be a statistic? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sue

I'm with Susan. 100%

You're pretty much saying you'd rather have your husband and yourself killed/raped/tortured than defend yourself.

To each their own, but I will bet you're also the type that will blame society/police/goverment for the attack afterwards.

Susan, you kick ass.

I agree with Sue as well, but I don't think it needs to get personal. Just because a person has an issue defending themselves, it's not right to pass judgement and then assume facts not in evidence to make a point.

Let's just look at this rationally and try to help her out instead of lambasting her. I think there's plenty of argument on here for why she should think twice about her stance and several have made suggestions on what else can be done. I'd say I'd rather have her in the fold and learning and changing her mind slowly than to just say her viewpoint is invalid and make her feel like dirt.

This reminds me of a time when there was a nice woman in my karate class who had been abused. She was reluctant to "spar" with anyone, but I finally convinced her to try it out with me and we built up rapport. After some very encouraging signs that she was "getting it" and was starting to come out of her shell, another guy in class got a little to carried away and didn't think about her situation. She never came back. I hate to see that happen because it tends to perpetuate the situation. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Wow, what to say?

I am very suprised to find that people think that
I am a victim or act like one. I am not a victim,
and have never been one. I have never had to defend
myself with more than words, (except maybe the time I
raised my fists to a bully in elementry school).
And I've done more than my share of walking alone
through bad neighborhoods in the middle of the night.

I don't value the life of a criminal more than mine,
as several people have suggested.
However, I do doubt my ability to use a gun to completely
disable a criminal, especially one that is high or has friends.
And I don't like guns enough to invest the time and money
it would take to remove that doubt. (Other postings on
this thread have made this glaringly clear to me.)
So, my choice is to render the gun unusable by the enemy
and move on.

What is wrong with prefering to avoid or run away from
a bad situation? What's wrong with knowing that I would
be easily overpowered, because I've made a conscious decision
that, given the odds, I'd rather spend my money and time
on things other than gun training and martial arts?
(If you think I've got the odds wrong or the money & time involved wrong, please tell me why.)

-Kuovonne

p.s.
My purpose in posting on these boards is to let
y'all know the thoughts of someone who is slowly being
converted to preparedness, even though I think some
of what y'all talk about is overkill.
Thanks to this group, I now carry (and know how to use)
many preparedness type items that I did not before.

Of course, if I'm publicly told that I'm stupid enough times,
I'll go back to lurking.

Hi Kuovonne,

You've clearly thought through the situation. As I said, it's pretty unlikely to happen, but it *could*. That's what the site is all about... situations that could happen and how to prepare for them.

Anyway, I personally have no problem with those who don't like or want guns. One of my best friends is adamantly opposed to even the 2nd Amendment. He doesn't think any non mil or LEO should have them for ANY reason. I am quite the opposite, but I respect his viewpoint. I think that some folks get carried away simply because they so emphatically believe something that they can't see the other side of the coin or that it might have some basis in valid argument. I certainly hope you don't take a few "out of the ballpark" comments and decide to go back to lurking. You are obviously not stupid and have done more than many on the subject; which is to educate yourself and think about the situation and the consequences as they fit YOU. Thinking and learning, is more than the general populace can say about themselves. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Learning to handle and effectively utilize firearms is a large undertaking. I, am in fact, a little out of practice at the moment. Same goes for Martial Arts. Both cost money and take time. At least for Martial Arts, money and time are both big factors in people not sticking with it. I completely understand the situation as my own workload has kept me out of class quite a bit for the first half of this year.

I would say that even a couple of hours at a women's self-defense seminar would be VERY helpful. You can practice things lightly and slowly with your hubby until the next class is held, like 6 mo. later. They are typically free or very low cost. I know that many are "donation" driven and will allow someone in for free if requested. Several of the women in my class have come over full time to karate from yoga and aerobics since the workout is as good and costs about the same, and they get permanent benefits... maybe there are kickboxing or similar hybrid MA classes you would enjoy.

I'm glad that you clarified that you questioning your ability to defend yourself WITH A GUN. That changes things. Hopefully you don't feel that way about yourself in general, but even that can be helped with time and encouragement.

I would just leave you with a parting thought... Avoidance is important, but sometimes it is not possible to run away. Certainly in the home it poses problems. And with kids, I'm sure you wouldn't be willing to leave them behind. Don't ever count yourself out. Keep moving and fighting until you are dead... you just might win. Go for the throat and eyes and groin in a life or death situation. Learning to kick hard to the side of the knee might disable your attacker enough to get your kids and get out too... Even the weakest kids in our classes could probably snap my knee if they hit it right. Legs are mighty powerful. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately my family has become acutely aware of the fact that one can carry a gun, know how to use it confidently, nail an armed criminal with it, and yet still be killed by that armed criminal. I've always wanted to train enough to be confident and comfortable with guns, despite this painful association, but I realize they are not the be-all, end-all of home/personal defense. Sometimes you can do all you can and still lose. I would hope that no one else here has come to realize that in the same way I have.

Hey Kuovonne,
first, let me say, that from your past posts, I'd say you're FAR from stupid... for those that gave that impression, shame on them. Second, if you're absolutely convinced that firearms aren't for you, then so be it... some folks just won't ever be shootists. But, I'd like to point out, that learning to be a competant gunner doesn't require expensive or years-long training. It sounds like you've got a pretty competant instructor living with you, and if the teacher-pupil relationship just doesn't fit husband-wife (I can't seem to teach my wife ANYthing), the NRA offers training free of charge (and not that it matters, but some of their best instructors are female). Your first gun doesn't have to be expensive, my wife's first gun was a H&R .38 that we got because she liked the way it felt in her hand. While she doesn't often go to the range with me, I've seen enough of her shooting to be confident in her ability to put two rounds in the center of mass, and when that little .38 is loaded with Hydra-shoks, I would NOT want to be the person she's shooting at <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. As far as the matter of whether the bad-guy has friends or not, in most instances... one, or twelve, when there's hot lead flying in their direction, 99 times out of 100, they'll head for an easier (and safer) target... but, as I've already said, if guns just aren't for you, then so be it, but don't let that stop you from continuing to contribute to our little circle here... I for one, enjoy getting perspectives of folks that don't always agree with me... I said it before here, I've never learned a thing from somebody that agreed with every word I said <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

Don't stop posting because you received a few negative posts. Guns are much more likely to elicit an emotional response than other survival gear, either pro or con. Therefore the issue of whether to use one or not is likely to become heated. That does not mean it is not a worthwhile topic. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This forum, moreso than most forums I frequent, is extremenly civil. However, we come to forums to express ideas and exchange information. This leads to discussion and disagreement. Discussion and disagreement lead to education. If we all agreed on everything, we'd never learn anything.

If someone tells me I'm right, I may have learned one thing. If someone tells me I'm wrong, I have probably learned two things. Whether I choose to change because of it, is still up to me. Nevertheless, I have learned something, and that makes it a good day.

Christina,

If you are able, would you please give us more detail on the gunfight you are referring to. It sounds like something we could all learn from.

Thanks!

Part of me really wants to, if it would help somebody, but the other part of me remembers that this is the internet and I should keep details private out of respect for my family.

The only lesson I learned was this: Make right with your conscience and the people you love, because whenever you take a stand to defend yourself and others like that, you're just a roll of the dice away from tragedy. It takes incredible courage to do that, I think.

Something similar happened when I was helping teach a self defense class. There was one young woman who, by the way she was in the class had also been abused. As part of the class, we had the participants practice striking a kicking shield. When she was practicing each of the techniques, she looked as if she was trying to kill someone. It didn't seem like she was just really into the training, it looked she was thinking of someone she'd like to use the techniques on. I'm 6'3" and well over 300 pounds and she was hitting so hard that she was throwing me off balance...and she was an average sized woman. It really wasn't my business but I was concerned for her situation and wanted to recommend some local agencies that could help her if she was being abused. I was very concerned about her mental state.

In that respect, I highly recommend "The SAS Self Defense Handbook". It discusses the mental aspects of self defense as well as physical ones. It's straightforward and no nonsense and effective. Though the techniques should be practiced, they are simply "incapacitate the perp and get out of Dodge" techniques. Unfortunately there is still a need for such materials and training, but forutnately quality information is available.

"Look at the odds of falling into such a situation...."

dbeeksci you hit the nail on the head in my case. I packed a long time ago, but I learned I am a very intimidating person. I am 6'5" 250 lbs, and when the muscles relax in my face I just look dang mean. I found that the way my face looks combined with my size just scares the heck out of people.

This is my best story out of many: When in D.C. once, a friend dropped me off one night to where I was staying in a rough neighborhood. He drove off quickly, I was crouched over getting my bag ready to sling over my shoulder. Five gangstas surrounded me on the sidewalk, but dispersed when I stood up straight and they saw my height and the mean-ass look on my face.

Okay, maybe I still would have got slotted if it happened on a different night. But I've faced other potential instances many times and have never had any problem.

I've always been told "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." Problem is, not meaning to boast, they have to make me fall first.

Lots of opinions on a touchy subject (for some) I guess. I will give mine. I have been around firearms of all types all my life (35 years), I am comfortable and proficient with just about anything that goes bang. As a hunter I have over 100 big game kills and know what it means to take life. You say that is not a human. Ok, I have fired my weapon at an individual on one occation, without hessitation. Technically we were both in the wrong. The person had attemted to Break&Enter, a family member jumped on the hood of his vehicle to prevent escape as law enforcement was on the way. Then the guy tries to drive off with my family member on the hood. I fired twice hitting the vehicle both times (family member out of the line of fire, mind you). The Deputies came, and I handed over my weapon. My family member was thrown from the vehicle a little over 1/2 mile down the road. The county P/A looked over the case and did not prosecute me. The A-hole that should have been charged with B&E and attemted murder, got off scott free as well. So don't look for the government to protect YOU. It is your responseablity to your children and family, and God who gave you life, to respect your own life and protect yourself. I may have been in the wrong as far as the letter of the law was concerened, but I, nor the prosecuting Attorney felt I was in the wrong in this situation. Would I do it again.....absolutly.
Now as far as my home is concerned, with a person forcing there way in to do whatever; I have two dogs that should deter you. If you are so stupid as to contiue to enter, you will be put down. Period. No hesitation.
What is your life worth to you?
One thing that saddens me today is there are people out there who care more for a damn animal, than for another human being or themselves who are made in the image of God. Love those values. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Any after saying all that, a gun is not the end all and be all of self defense, it is a tool, and a good one at that. Now that I am 10 years removed from my encounter that could have ended with a life lost, I am more consience about avoiding danger, but if danger finds me, so be it.
Only you know what you will do in the face of injury or death. Just be prepared to do it, and live with it.