U.S. to ban flame sources aboard airliners

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6975474/

Now we're screwed.

Slightly different angle here (cnn.com).

What I thought was interesting about the cnn article is that TSA seems to be worried this
particular ruling is dumb enough that even the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. will think it goes too far.

You know, I had a long reply for this, but I am just going to wait and see what happens. This is just the beginning of the end for anyone who flies frequently. Watch, soon wont be allowed to carry anything on!

Garrett

Didn't someone on this forum suggest to have the passengers naked for boarding and then to strap them to their seat ... ???
(and without any luggage... of course)

I'm often unsure of what the solution is to in-air terrorism. Clearly, taking over the cockpit of a passenger plane is not feasible, even if a large number of people on board tried. But if you wanted just plain terror, what is worse than being burned to death at 35,000 feet? I've seen the hairspray demo (something I used to do as a kid) and I also know that the interior of a plane is very, very flammable.

Certainy, theres more in-air danger from a lighter than there is from a knife. However, I'm not sure if it's even possible to prevent fire-making devices from coming on board. A lithium battery and headphone wire can make quite a bang, as can a flash from a camera.

The answer, which the TSA refuses to implement, is passenger profiling. I'm no threat, yet I'm treated as one. I suffer economic harm and and inconvinenced because I'm treated the same as a guy who has a Syrian passport, has been to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan in the last 6 weeks and is a cousin of a suicide bomber from Isreal.

that's just dumb.

Frenchy:

I don't remember that one, but I did post that the TSA may institute the dreaded "E.F.E." procedure and then the excrement will really hit the ocsillating blade.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
O.K, I have to bite and ask (even if I fear the worst...) :
just what is that procedure ?

Frenchy:

Good Grief!, you're French, think about it and if someone else with knowledge of supposedly secret government workings knows the answer, I'll let them tell you. If no one else knows (Don't expect Norad45 to chime in as he probably doesn't believe our Government would implement the E.F.E. procedure on its citizens.), I'll tell you tomorrow. If I don't sign on tomorrow, the Government has been monitoring me and I am history.

Bountyhunter

O.K, I'll wait ...
and if I don't sign on tomorrow, don't worry : it's just because I will be working at a customer site for the next two days, far away from home.

Another government agency run amoke! Next thing you know you won't be able to bring dental floss onboard.....hey I could strangle you with enough of it!!!!

I think we should do.... nothing. Absolutely nothing. Pull the TSA security, stop checking IDs,
all of it. The one thing we could do is educate the public about the relative threat various
"terrorist" attacks pose. Show how giving into the fear is giving the terrorists what they
want. Equate contempt for terrorists with patriotism. Smoking, obesity, traffic accidents,
the freakin' FLU kill orders of magnitude more people than any terrorist attack to date.

The solution to terrorism is to ignore it. Quietly work to eliminate it, sure. But the
general population should go on as if nothing's wrong. Because, based on the numbers,
nothing IS wrong.

Well said.


Robert

I remember right after 9/11 several forum boards coming up with every alternate tool or subterfuge to get a weapon or survival tool on board an aircraft. Well, suprise, even if your dressed like a 1000 year old arthritic leprechaun shilleleaghs are going to draw attention ( and being historically a weapon should) The real world out there hasn't changed. The odds fortuitously are against crashing on Vanu Atu, the Andes or getting hijacked. The odds of surviving a major crash are sadly even less. The odds go down even further that having survived a crash we won't be located reasonably soon. Yes, you could be a rare statistic and wind up eating Bountyhunter in the afghan mountains. But for the majority of us mailing our PSKs or EDC, BOB, FAK on ahead will avoid the FAA, CIA,FBI and we will be just as prepared in the real world. I'm more concerned with the Hare Krishnas shoving carnations in my face, getting a wingside seat by an emergency exit and hoping my brand of whiskey is on board to dull my survival reflexes anyway <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the flying public may reach the end of its patience soon.

Instead of a grudging acceptance of new restrictions, I've been hearing much more of a disbelieving rumble on the web.

This is usually followed by a rising tide of enough's enough.

You're right. Let's wait and see.

The Intelligence Reform Act = obviously not all that much intelligence involved, IMO.

And just HOW would a few matches or a lighter in checked luggage be a danger?

"... the TSA is concerned about prohibiting items that it cannot detect".

If they SAW a fireboard and spindle in your luggage, would they even know what it was?

"There is a concern that we just simply do not create rules that inconvenience the public but do not enhance our security capability." I wonder just how many illegal aliens from the middle east they've caught since Homeland Security was created?

I do wonder how much HS has done to REALLY prevent further terrorism?

So much of this BS is just eyewash, I think, much like companies that come up with all these "morale-boosting" ideas that wouldn't be needed if the people in charge had a working brain. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Sue

"If they SAW a fireboard and spindle in your luggage, would they even know what it was?"

Or what about a fire piston and a few scraps of char cloth and tinder?

Intelligence Reform is another classic oxymoron.

We must first have intelligence before anyone tries reforming it. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

This is a typical response to any perceived security or social agenda issue in this country. Implement more laws for criminals to ignore in the commission of their crimes. In this case, specifically, Richard Reid may have been able to light his shoe bomb undetected if he had used a lighter instead of matches. Let's ignore the fact that it was already illegal for him to a.) manufacture an explosive/destructive device and b.) transport said device onboard a commercial aircraft. There's probably half a dozen other statutes that were violated as well.

1. Make bomb - check
2. Smuggle bomb on plane - check
3. Light fuse - Dang it! I turned in my matches at the gate <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I guess all of you completly miss the point of this law :
- from now on, terrorists will fear to be fined for carrying a lighter aboard....
too big a risk .... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Frenchy:

I find it hard to believe that no one on this forum has any friends in Government service that is willing to lose their job and pension by telling us about the dreaded E.F.E. procedure.

Once again I will have to be the lone turkey seeking to be an Eagle by sticking my head above the crowd and "spreading?" the word.

Many things may change and words will have different meanings if the E.F.E. procedure is instituted.

Telling your boss to "Blow it out his ###!" may be seen as a Homeland security concern instead of an insult.

Telling a person you dislike to "Stick it up your ###!" will be looked at as being a party to illegal attempts to get by the TSA inspectors.

A business person saying "I've got to run now" may have a whole new meaning and anyone working on a business deal in the airports who says "I have to sit on it", or "I'll have to sleep on it", will risk being thrown to the ground, handcuffed and hauled away. Anyone with stomach problems will be looked at suspiciously.

For the time being, we are being protected by anal retentive people who are thus far a majority over anal explosive people. The increasing amount of giggling as more people learn about the possible introduction of the E.F.E. procedure does not bode well for the retentive majority as the explosive minority seems to be converting some borderline potty sitters.

Run out and buy Kohler, Toto, American Standard, and Crane plumbing company stocks, so that at the very least, you will profit somewhat when the E.F.E. procedure is rammed into our society that travels by air.

"E.F.E." stands for:





























ENEMAS FOR EVERYONE! ! !

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm not. We should demand the return of our freedoms. The citizens of this country need to be armed, educated, vigilant, and united rather than disarmed, ignorant, indifferent, and divided, if we intend to secure for our posterity the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

Liberty is paramount. When we exchange Liberty for a false sense of Security, our destruction is assured.

I think that even the most cursory assessment of the general populace will determine that the proportion of terrorists bent on mayhem to the number of responsible, law-abiding citizens is so small as to be almost statistically insignificant--so why do so many people seem to believe that the scare tactics that have been used to usurp the rightful freedoms of the vast majority in the name of "security" are appropriate?

Has any of it made us more "secure"? I submit that the answer is a resounding "NO".

Amper:

I know that the answer to in-air terrorism is mandatory possesion of at least a 4" fixed blade knife (Preferably handed out by the air line at the boarding ramp to every passenger) by everyone on board and a "You're ### is ours!" attitude by every passenger on board toward any idiot who would try to take over the airplane.

Armed pilots with large caliber weapons shooting fragible ammunition and a "Hostages are an obstacle to shoot around if possible, shoot through if necessary", mindset with legal protection for all who attempt to thwart the hijacking.

Masses will overcome individuals or small groups no matter how the small groups are armed.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

In general, I agree with the idea. But it isn't guaranteed that
bad guys will be outnumbered by good guys. I know flights are large, but it's probably
possible to have a bad guy majority on a plane. A combination of buying up available
seats (and not using them) and putting your own people on the plane could give you
the advantage.

Maybe the pilot should just have a "knock out gas" button. :-)

Actually, if the media would stop giving terrorist attacks such huge coverage, that'd probably
help a lot. Terrorists are the signal, but the media is the amp and speakers.

Or even that funny gas that the Dentist uses. That would make flying enjoyable and also help those with fear of flying all at the same time. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just checked the TSA website. They are not banning matches yet, just lighters. You can check it out here:
TSA press release