to Chris Kavanaugh

Chris,
For I am one of several young people one this forum who are all interested in the outdoor world.
The topic “careers” came up today at school and well… I need some advice.
I looked at SAR teams around the world but they are only voluntarily based. There does not seem to be a lot out there for us outdoor enthusiasts to make a decent career out of. The only real option is to work in the tourist sector 
Maybe you could enlighten us/me with advice and personal history of how you got were you are.

reinhardt

Being in a similar position to reinhardt, i'm very interested too.

Reinhardt, The late Joseph Campbell always told his students to "Follow your bliss." Living ( I hate the phrase work) outdoors for a living means most of us have to give something to society in return; extractive industries that often devour what we love, tourism which hopefully only extract greater love and value for it or the sciences. I more or less stumbled into my avocations. Service during Vietnam was unpopular and I faced a family tradition of naval service. I somehow managed to enlist in the Coast Guard( to my family's tearing of hair and clothing-mine) and had a rich experience. Military service truly does offer opportunities and training with a little forethought. My university time was well served by it. When your paying for a english lit class with 6 years of benefits no 'doctorate' is going to read class struggle into the seating arrangement of Stephen's short story THE OPEN BOAT. Not without a former lifeboat coxswain in the front row <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I was in a introductory field course in archaeology one summer. The grad students were making jokes about 'blowtorch archaeology' in Alaska. I said something to the effect I loved Alaska in the winter, and had my own snowshoes and bear rifle. Quietly smoking his pipe was my future mentor who was a seasonal associate at the Fairbanks campus of the state university. Quess who got an actual job in the field ( the rifle and snowshoes helped?) Once there I found myself discussing conservation issues with several people from many backgrounds. Next season I found myself as a paid intern for a major conservation group. The fact I knew how to ride a horse and wasn't a vegetarian ( this was the start of the Yellowstone Park Bison controversy) helped make a few key friendships with the locals. Is there a pattern here? Not according to my family <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, but if you want a career OUTDOORS, you have to GO OUTDOORS. There are countless opportunities. You just have to be there when inspiration and lots of friendships come together. That, and a bear rifle and snowshoes in Los Angeles excavating a section of the notorious Alleyway of prostitute cribs, opium parlours and saloons under a freeway cloverleaf <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Several careers involve working outdoors. I have made a small list, but keep in mind it is not all-inclusive. As far as the outdoor rescue work goes, yes it is almost all volunteer. Average is 98% volunteer. The remaining are made up from employers like the National Park Service (US) and Border Patrol (US) even some Fire and EMS departments have a “specialized rescue” organization, such as Los Angeles Fire Department’s Urban SAR.

Forest Service (US)
National Park Service (US)
Ministry of Lands, Air & Water (Canada)
Coast Guard (US and Canada)
Wildlife and Fishery
Archaeology
Astronomy

These are very broad and each has its own sub-category. As Chris K said, the main idea is to get outdoors.

Reinhardt,

I don't know whereabouts in UK you are but, if you want to get involved in volunteer rescue I can help you as a member of British Civil Defence (HQ in Boston-Lincolnshire).

Speaking of tourist sector, I have been in Plas Menai in Wales for power boat training. These guys over there were excellent people and instructors were very good. They also do trekking and rapelling etc. Maybe a visit to a place like that may give you some insight about the tourist sector. They always need new instructors.

Burak

Speaking as a near-sighted computer programmer who is most comfortable indoors, breathing filtered air, sitting in front of a computer screen or watching digital cable, I found your message well written.

I like looking over the fence from time to time. Grin.

Blimey! I also had power boat training in the Menai Strais. What a coincedence. We must have gone to the same place. I also did climbing in their excellent indoor climbing hall. Fantastic <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Some other careers that might be of interest could include:

Geologist
Veterinarian
Wildlife Biologist
Marine Biologist
Game Warden

Good luck,

John

I was there three years ago. I liked it a lot, especially the exercise under the bridge. Then we moved to Lincolnshire. The rescue boat we practised on in the dike there was 3.5 meters with a 75 bhp engine. A team member had hit the bank with it at full speed while I was on board and we flew over the bank right into a field. I almost broke my neck and the team member still carries the nick name 007 due to the abilty to ride boats on the land <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Burak

I grew up not 10 minutes walk from the Menai Bridge!! My parents still live there. I often walk along the straits when I'm home. Maybe some of the people I've seen on the water were you guys?
<img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Guys,
Thank you all for the advice you have given me. I’d like to do a special mention to Chris K for being able to share his story and putting in the effort.

Burak,
The offer sounds fantastic! And I would love to become part of such a team but sadly the situation does not allow it. Reason in order to fund college I have to work.
But if the offer is still on in two years I will take it up. It sounds like an experience too good to miss. BTW I live on the East East South side of Birmingham (Solihull).

I’d like to know more about National Park Service, Veterinarian and the Coast guard service.
After reading this I am considering working in the tourist sector, even though I enjoy working more with people with a similar level of knowledge in that particular area, I would be able to do what I enjoy doing most.

First aid is still very much on my mind as is the police force (mounted police/armed response unit) or becoming a Visio therapist (PE teacher told me to consider it).

Reinhardt

Ditchfield,
do you know what you would like to do?

Considering your tag-line;

You could work some / any reasonable job long enough to get seed cash for a small organic farm in some nice rural section of (land of your choosing) and hike / hunt the neighborhood at will. So long as the farm runs well enough to pay the taxes and mortgage youre all set.

I would also love to do something based outdoors. Infact I couldn't do anything but. I am currently looking towards archaeology and I am currently studying it. I'm also interested in park wardens and geologist. The A levels I am studying are: Archaeology, History, Chemistry and English literature. Almost anything historic interests me with the exeption of stately homes and formal gardens <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. I don't know what I'll end up doing. I'm just going to let time tell.

pete, hope you don't mind me asking, but do you like chemistry? i was wondering why you chose it with the other subjuects you've got listed there. only i've done a little chemistry myself.
steve

Pete,
Maybe I should take on your attitude - sit back and jump at the opportunity when it comes - but I feel I really should think about. Teachers are curious, I'm getting anxious. You see I made plans since I became a teenager and they never worked out because of my jumpy lifestyle.
But it’s a dream come true to obtain a career in the outdoor life. Therefore I’m continuously scanning the horizon.
My uncertainties (about a career) come from my father. He is a very wise and specialised gentleman yet he cannot perceive a career that suits him.
Reinhardt

Reinhardt,
I too like the outdoors, but I also like working with machinery,
That is why I became an Agriculture teacher. I can work indoors or out. By the way I like your saying at the bottom of your posts.
Dale

My first choices as A -level subjects were: Archaeology, History, Geology and photography. After speaking to a careers advicer, I decided to change Photography for chemistry to give my a slightly wider area of qualifications. I chose Chemistry because it is something I am intrested in and I achieved relitively highgrades at GCSE. However, one thing I loathe is written work. I know that almost every job involves lots of this, Archaeology as much as any subject but Chemistry seems to consist mostly of the above. There is also the lack of much outdoor work.

Unfortunatly geology was cancelled due to lack of interest. This was a shame because it was one of the areas I was looking into as a possible career. Luckily I will probably be able to pick it up next year as an AS level. If I really enjoy it, I can always stay an extra year at college so that I can take it as a full A level.

i remember doing a computerised thingy to work out what your job was likely to be, i filled in the answers, and lo, the answer came back.......dustbin man. hmm, don't know whether or not that made me try a bit harder in exams! but all i can say is t the moment i'm not a dustbin man, time will tell tho <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I seem to remember getting that answer as well....."Likes the outdoors" <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh my old man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat,
He wears cor-blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat.
He looks a proper nana
In his great big hobnail boots:
He's got such a job to pull them up
That he calls them daisy roots.


Heh heh... let all the non-Brits wallow in confusion for a while. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Mate, but, a certain mob of Orangemen called THE IRISH ROVERS put that to music with a full explanation years ago.

Dale,
my father is into argriculture - reason for saying but it is v true though.
Where do you teach?

Reinhardt

In Northeast Arkansas, just in the flatlands of the Mississippi Delta, but I live in the beginning of the Ozark mountain foothills.

Stargazer,
Could you tell me where I can find more information about the following :

Forest Service (US)
National Park Service (US)
Coast Guard (US and Canada)
Los Angeles Fire Department’s Urban SAR.

Thanks in advance,
Reinhardt

The Canadian Coast Guard
( http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/main_e.htm )
is run by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans
( http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/home-accueil_e.htm ),
and is not a branch of the military, unlike the USCG.

Aardwolfe,
thank you for the links. It was a wealth of information once I was able to navigate my way around the site.
Do you or anyone else know where I can find info regarding the contents of the following careers?

Forest Service (US)
National Park Service (US)

Reinhardt

I can't provide you with any first-hand information but I've heard that nowadays, the US Park Service is looking less for people with outdoor experience and more for people with a police background. <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Sadly, it's a sign of the times -as the National Parks get more and more crowded, the need for Law Enforcement personnel becomes greater. Some parks, especially along the Mexican border, have been all but taken over by drug runners and people smugglers. However, if you're still interested, and if you're eligible (I have absolutely no idea if you need to be a US citizen to apply for any of these organisations) a couple of years with any police force may not go amiss. (I've also read somewhere that there are an increasing number of calls where the Park Service has had to go out and rescue one of their own Rangers who's gotten lost; a side effect of hiring people without much wilderness experience. So I would guess that a stint with the Military Police, and taking a couple of courses in Wilderness Survival, Escape and Evasion, etc. might look very good on a resume. Just my uninformed thoughts - I've never really looked into any of these careers myself.

Aardwolfe,
That’s some good points you made there. I think a few survival courses on my CV wouldn’t go amiss. Paperwork for a paper world.
Ref the Law personnel need, its sounds very romantic chasing bandits through the forest but I guess the real world is different if not more boring.
In the mean time I’ve done some more research by talking to a Canadian guy (Canada is the area I would really like to work) and as far as he knew (he’s a chef) there are still people called forest rangers that basically look for after the forest and search for missing people. Is there any truth in this? That’s sounds like the perfect job description to me.
Also been planning my future a bit more: what I’d like to do after A levels is to work with a volunteer SAR team in the UK for one year to get experience before ultimately going to Canada the year after for another year.
This way I really discover what I would like to do before I set of to Uni.

Well, as far as the Law Enforcement thing goes, I only know what I've seen on a National Geographic documentary and an article I read in Backpacker magazine (April 2003) about "Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument" on the Mexican border. They get an estimated 300,000 visitors a year; of these, 3,000 are legitimate tourists, the rest are drug smugglers and illegal aliens. A Park Ranger was murdered there last year, by a Mexican drug smuggler running from the Mexican authorities. So that part's less romantic, as Buffy would say. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know about Forest Rangers - it may depend on the province, I don't think it's a federal responsibility. In Alberta, they have (or used to have) Fire Lookouts, whose job is to live in a remote cabin and report any smoke or fire that they see. This is seasonal employment, at best.

Search and Rescue is primarily handled by the military but there are a large number of volunteer SAR organisations. Far from getting paid to do it, these volunteers have to shell out large sums of their own money for the "privilege" of volunteering their time.

I suspect most of the outdoor jobs are connected with tourism - ski instructors, backcountry guides, hunting guides, climbing instructors, etc. - or with the oil industry (prospecting, inspecting pipelines, etc.)

I went to the Canadian Google (www.google.ca) typed in "Forest Rangers" (in quotation marks) and clicked "Pages from Canada". Don't know if this will work for you, but I did find this reference to Forest Rangers:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2003/n29au03b.htm

(N.B. forest rangers battling fires in Alberta and B.C.)

It appears from reading this article that Forest Rangers are Provincial employees.

And I found this on a childrens' web site (sorry, but I take my intelligence where I find it <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

http://www.whatdotheydo.com/forest_r.htm

But it appears to deal with the US Forest Rangers (see the reference to Montana).

Or this reference:

http://www.utoronto.ca/env/lib_hold/db1/files/10129.htm

I'll see if I can find any further information for you. Probably a university degree in biology, oceanography, geology, or "earth sciences" (?) would be a good starting point.

Aardwolfe,
I’m flabbergasted by your response. Thank you for giving your time to such a qualitative post.
I found all three links useful. Yes even the kid’s one too it just explained it a bit more (in simple language!) the news one too as it showed the caliber of these men and women.
Shame there was a faulty link on the University of Toronto webpage.

In the mean time I’ve also done some more work on careers. I am applying on a course offered to go to the British Parachute Regiment for one week to see what it is like a recruit. This will give me a deeper insight into the armed forces and whether it is for me. This part is important as I am considering becoming a Clinical physiologist in the Royal Army Medical Corps.
And my teachers told me to look at becoming a physiologist so I will need to find a work placement for that too.

One thing is clear though I am not planning to go to uni before I really know what I want to do. Nothing worse then discovering afterwards that it isn’t for me.

As I mentioned before I appreciate your efforts and if you do have more information than please do not hesitate to post it.

Best regards,

Reinhardt

I went to university right out of high school but dropped out halfway through my first year. Bummed around for a couple of years, ended up going into the military. Got through Basic Training, God knows how (toughest thing I have EVER done), did five years and finally got tired of hearing all this talk about computers and KNOWING that I could learn it if I tried. Took two correspondence courses while I was in the military (to finish off my first year of university), got out of the military, went back to university planning to get a 3-year Bachelor's degree in computer science. 6 years later, I was working on a Master's Thesis in mathematics - which took me three more years of being nagged EVERY FREAKING day by my MOTHER - God Bless Her <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Btw, I dedicated my Master's Thesis when it was finished:

"To my father, without whom I would never have started; and
to my mother, without whom I would never have finished."

Life is a funny road - most of us have no idea where we'll end up.