Cooking when the power goes out

The current hurricane (Florence) thread got me thinking about various topics and one was cooking. We use a thermal pot for various slow cooking menu items (stew, chili, whatever). It’s very efficient; put the stainless steel inner pot on the stove burner (electric/induction/gas) just enough time to get it hot and then into the insulated outer container. Web search for “thermal cooker” — lots of manufacturers, primarily Chinese, some Japanese.

We use ours a lot without a hurricane or EQ. But during an emergency, the efficient use of stove fuel might be a concern. The thermal pots pair nicely with a camp stove using your favorite fuel.

Thermal cooker @ Amazon

It is simple. When the power is out, we are camping out. nothing is-more convenient than a one burner iso-butane backpacker stove, and I also have a two burner camp gas stove, plus a decent supply of fuel for both

This is a natural outcome of my outdoors orientation, but decent camping/outdoor gear is generally very useful when the trappings of civilization fall away.

What do I do when the canisters are exhausted? Time to hunt for firewood or break up the furniture for kindling and cook like the old days....

I can set up a full kitchen with propane, wood or charcoal. The advantages of being a scout master. In addition, we have a plethora of backpacking stoves, including a universal fuel stove.

And then we come to the question of "What's for dinner?"

A lot of people focus on freeze dried food, but while light weight, they require water for preparation. For a situation where I will not be carrying the food on my back, I much prefer canned goods, many of which are essentially MRE capable. After all, potable water is likely to be a critical resource, so dehydrated foods are not so optimum...

While MRE's work, I feel that for the money, I can get more with regular grocery store goods, plus what we can harvest from our garden.

I do have a modest stash of FD items, because you never know.

You start with what is in the fridge, then move to the freezer, then start on non-perishables. Eat what will go bad first.

At last, a valid reason for an ice cream binge.......

When we moved to our new house a couple years ago, we were forced to install an induction type stove.

During the renovation work we had a bedroom converted into the new kitchen, but the main gas lines were on the other side of the building, so it would have been tremendously expensive to bring a gas line to the room.

I didn't like this setup a bit, as an induction stove is useless when the power is out.

I solved the problem, killing two birds with one stone, by purchasing a gas powered barbecue for the porch, a model that has a traditional gas burner on one side, which I could use to cook in case of a power outage. The barbecue and burner are powered by a rather large propane tank, and I could keep using it daily for weeks before the gas runs out. An earthenware pot is good to keep the food warm for a long time.

What really concerns me is the issue of heating if the power goes out. Wa have a modern methane furnace with radiators and a big pellet stove in the living room, but neither would work without electricity, leaving us in the cold. I've been thinking a while about purchasing a gasoline generator to power the pellet stove during blackouts, but I would have to run an extension cord from the generator, set outside on the porch, and the pellet stove on the inside, leaving a door or window cracked open.

Pardon the thread hijack, but can you run your main heating system off the generator? It sounds like it is powered by natural gas (methane=natural gas?) to produce the actual heat source. My furnace is natural gas. The electricity is only for the controls/fans/etc., and uses very little electricity to function, so it runs fine off the generator and keeps the house warm. Based on the exact installation and local codes, you may want/need to install a separate electrical box or switch to allow you to connect the heating system into the generator.

[Hijack continued:]

Check the manual for your pellet stove. They draw very little power, and some are now designed with the ability to operate on 12VDC for exactly the reasons you mention.

That's very interesting -- I had heard of a traditional "haybox" for that purpose, but had no idea they were available commercially.

Given the cooking pots, insulation and other materials in a modern home, do you think an efficient version could be improvised? When the thawing meat in a freezer needs to be cooked, for example?

what worked for me during the 9 day outage in 2004 was to use a small tail gate propane grill to circumvent the need to use hot water for cleanup...

thawed ground beef and hot dogs were cooked directly on the grill... as chicken and pork chops thawed they were cubed, and along with some onion and bell pepper were skewered into kabobs, utilizing bamboo skewers

my double burner Coleman propane camp stove was used to produce water to shave with (used solar heated water to take afternoon showers when I got home from school)

last year for Irma (retired by then) a single #1 bottle burner to make hot water to pour through my drip coffee maker, and to heat a pan of water to heat canned soup/stew directly in their cans (though not that efficient, but did not burn any canned soup)

I plan on replacing the single burner with one of the flat Asian style burners that typically use butane, but has a propane option

a Coleman leaded gas single burner is my back up as well as standard fish cooker and full size propane grill that work off a bulk propane bottle

DO NOT FOREGET THE COFFEE!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

To power the main heating system I would surely need to install a bypass switch, as the power line of the furnace goes directly in the wall and not in a standard socket.

It's a job I'd need to leave to a licensed electrician for technical and legal reasons.

But there's another concern with powering the main heating with a generator.

I just realized that my furnace It's really what you English speakers call a gas boiler, one that use heated water that pass through radiators, and not warm air, to heat the rooms. Sorry for the misundertanding. So, for my heating system to work, I also need water and constant water pressure, something I would not take for granted during an hypothetical, widespread power outage.

That's interesting to know for a future purchase, thanks. But I don't think my stove has that feature, being an older model I got used and reconditioned from the dealer.

As for heating; how much do you really want to spend on it?

If the house never gets below freezing on the inside, then there is no danger of bursting pipes and burstings cans. So then it's a matter of keeping yourself warm. Proper clothing works for that.

Personally, I rarely use the heater, unless I got people coming over. I'm just used to the cold. The temperature inside my house does not drop below 11C.

As for cooking; as an outdoor person, I got plenty of stoves and fuel.

Bursted pipes due to freezing are not that uncommon in my area during winter, but generally they do accour in vacation houses that have been uninhabited for months. I could easily prevent that by leaving a couple of faucets to drip constantly.

As for heating, I'm with you in this ragards. I don't mind the cold much, although my SO would have something to say in the matter...

The house itself has a pretty good insulation and, with proper clothing and warm food and beverages, we could easily go on without heating for several days and no serious consequences.

I still wouldn't mind having that type of woodstove that all families in my region had in their houses, including that of my grandparents, until a few decades ago. It would heat a room but you could also cook on it.

Something along this lines.
www.woodcookstoves.ca/wood-cook-stove-rosa-xxl.html

Coffee...


I make my own cold-brew-coffee (CBC). It’s super easy, directions are available on-line. While I normally take my hot coffee with all the chemicals (cream & sugar), I cut the cream & sugar in half for CBC. What you brew is a concentrate which normally requires two additional parts of water/milk. Think of it as cold espresso. CBC has a low acid content which makes it palatable strong and black. It still has all the caffeine though, so use a small cup

Few thoughts.....
Cooking: We too have the gas grill (propane). Large cylinder. usual grill style with side burner. Could be used multiple ways.

In addition we have a an old Coleman 2 burner camp stove. White gas or small propane canisters (with the adapter). Can also be run off the large cylinder.

Last resort is our old MSR Whisperlite International. Single burner and can use white gas, gasoline, kerosene, jet fuel.... almost everything but urine.....

Keeping of food.... after Irma, we did the usual run through the refrigerated food, then the frozen. Then we started in on our supplies. One thing we DID find out.....Our chest freezer.... the lift the lid style.... maintained refrigeration temperatures for 4 (or 5) days and looked like it'd go for longer! Even with opening it numerous times! Enough large blocks of 'ice' (frozen bottles of water) kept it cold for AWHILE! It stayed below 38 degrees F! In Florida! Better 'conservation' of cold (less opening) and it could probably go longer. Plan was and is to move (refrigerator) things into it on day 2 of an event.

All empty space in our freezers are filled with frozen water bottles, trying to prevent thawing for as long as possible. Once thawed they are more drinking water.

Hi
Instead of hay in a closed box , use blankets in a closed box, and you're done
Use a food thermometer for knowing if safe
4 inches of blankets will do the job
You can also use a bucket instead of a box
You can also use a basket instead of a box
You can also use a bag instead of a box
You can also use a cooler as your box
You can also use styrofoam+aluminum instead of blankets.
Popsicle or pencil standoff where rigid bottom.

Design Principles for a Retained Heat Cooker | Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

Green Pail Retained Heat Cooker


https://energypedia.info/wiki/Heat_Retainers_-_Thermos_Flasks_and_Fireless_Cookers
....
Construction manual of a heat retention bag ...
Guide to Designing Retained Heat Cookers ...
Performance Test ...
Pilot study ...


https://energypedia.info/wiki/General_Kitchen_Management_Practices

compare r-value like an inch of sawdust is r-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_insulation_materials#List_of_building_insulation_materials

http://www.nienhuys.info/ics-wood-stoves.html
Sjoerd Nienhuys. 2012. How to make a Heat Retention Box (HRB) for two pots, saving > 50% cooking fuel. Technical Working Paper #21, with design drawing in annexe, 20 pages, 4.2 MB,

Quite right, the cooking thermometer is the one element that can't be improvised. It's non-intuitive yet essential in these scenarios.

But of all the options you mention, which have you personally found, in practice, to be the most effective?

There are definitely ways to improvise a thermal cooker, but for the cost of buying one ahead of time...? We use ours on a routine basis, it’s not something that sits on a shelf unloved and forgotten until that very rare emergency.

FWIW, the outer insulation container (the jacket) has a stainless steel inner liner that fits the food pot (~5 quarts) that goes on the stove. Other brands are similar, some bigger some smaller. The stainless steel liner allows the jacket to be preheated with boiling water so that when the hot pot with the food is inserted, the jacket liner is already very hot and doesn’t take heat from the pot to warm up. 6 hours later it’s still hot.

I worry about our hot tub. Even at zero degrees outside, ours supposedly won't start freezing for a week or more (I'm not sure I believe that though). We could drain it, but then the back yard would turn into one gigantic ice rink. Unless you have a really big generator, backup power is not an option. 220v at 50amps is what the tub uses when the heaters and pumps are going, and you can't heat without the pumps running too (pumps don't have to be at full power though).

Another recommendation I've heard is a 120v submersible sump pump on a small generator with both the pump inlet and outlet under water. The heat of the motor supposedly keeps the tub from freezing. That would circulate water in the main body of the tub, but I am more worried about the plumbing lines freezing. A sump pump wouldn't circulate through the plumbing. I guess I'd try the sump pump, but if that appeared to not be working, raise the outlet and use the pump to quickly drain the tub. And just deal with the resulting skating rink.

I'd be interested to hear what other tub owners plan to do during extended power outages.

OK, we've moved from cooking with no power, to heating a house with no power, to maintaining a hot tub with no power. In a normal situation where we know the power will eventually come back, cooking would be my least concern. But at the end of the world when power would not be coming back, the hot tub would take last place in the concern department.

to add to CJK's comments on coolers, and for the members not familiar with the 2004 Florida storm season... we had 3 storms in a month's period or so... the first for me was a 9 day power outage, and the others 3 or 4 day events...at the time I had a 5 day rated cooler, an older Igloo, and a small cooler I used for ice at school for science labs...and no generator

I pre chilled the 5 day with a couple of frozen gallon jugs about the 35mph point, and transferred all the frozen solid meat immediately upon first loss of power... with a couple more frozen jugs (total of 4)....I did not open this chest until the afternoon of day 5 ...there was still partially frozen water, but the edges of the meat showed thawing signs... I cooked perishables first out of the "less efficient" cooler... a couple of gallons of cold tea, some lunch meat and hot dogs with IIRC 3 frozen gallon jugs... by the 6th day, we had resumed school, and I had access to one of the ice machines, and brought about 20# of ice daily to augment the coolers....after the first storm I purchased a 7 day cooler.... I had a generator for the 2005 season

for 2017 and Irma I forgot to get some bagged ice (mistake)but again loaded up the 7 day with frozen jugs, but by that time I had retired, was dining out for all meals, and did not store any frozen meat, only a few perishables... I had power by the night of the 3rd day, so only a couple of meals of hot dogs, a couple of egg and cheese sandwiches, and a can or two of chunky soup... I was supplying power to two neighbors so ran my refrigerator only for a couple of hours every six up until about 2300, and as a courtesy to the neighbors shut it off....two hours would put a skim of ice on the gallon jugs, and they really needed a little more time to completely freeze... a little planning and some bagged and solid ice worked for me, even without the high tech roto molded coolers

We own and use a 'briefcase cooker':

Briefcase Cooker

£9-£10 here and Butane refills £1 each. Very easy and very safe to use. Also an additional gas ring in the kitchen when needed, Christmas dinner, big BBQ, cooking at the table, picnics.

-

A large (huge) vacuum flask may be used as a slow cooker, Pre-warm, fill with rapidly boiling stew, seal and only open when ready to serve.

-

I have found it easy to get large 3-4kWh computer UPSs for nothing. Companies often replace the whole thing rather than just rebattery every couple of years and throw out the old one!!!. I have the heating boiler wired to a standard plug which is simply plugged into the UPS which is then plugged into the wall. It will run our system for some days easily, either bridging the blackout or giving time to set up an alternative

For camping - and power outages, we have the standard Coleman 2 burner propane stove, a portable / tabletop propane BBQ and also a MSR PocketRocket.

With plenty of propane and isopro fuel for these and along with a inverter generator to power the freezer and fridge, I think we are good for a few weeks of cooking. Any longer duration of an area wide power outage, then there may be bigger socioeconomic, logistical and security problems to deal with besides just worrying about cooking.

I have two Pocket Rockets, and they are the greatest - lightweight and hot! I actually prefer the original model, which I have used for about eighteen years, to the newer version. both get the tea brewing in splendid fashion...

I've got one of the old, standard, Coleman two burner propane stoves. Maybe a 1/2 dozen of those green propane cartridges, and then an adapter hose so I could hook up the two 20lb propane bottles from our propane grill (which we rarely use anymore, having gotten the Traeger pellet grill). I guess we could cook on the pellet grill too - we have many bags of pellets - if I hooked it up to the generator to run the pellet feed and fan. That seems like overkill, but it would work. I'll have to look how much power that draws, I may be able to power it off the small 400 watt inverter we have in the car and a disconnected car battery. I'm sure the grill will run on that, but maybe not the initial startup where it has to heat a wire to ignite the pellets. Maybe you could replace that automatic pellet ignition function with a few matches though. Or use the generator for power to initially ignite, then switch to inverter for run power.

I would be very doubtful indeed about the "briefcase cooker" linked to above.
Apparently they have a very poor safety record, with a number of explosions reported.
The failure mode is said to be leakage of the gas, which ignites and plays a flame over the gas cartridge which then explodes.
I prefer an LPG cooking ring with a large refillable cylinder that is a reasonable distance from the flame.

There are lots of different manufacturers of that butane stove design. We use one made by GasOne (same basic design but stainless steel body) for power outages here and no issues.

That said, it’s an open flame burner, so set it up and use it with that in mind. I recommend not using a pan that extends past the burner support. Using a large pot, pan or skillet that extends over the butane cartridge compartment is asking for an accident.

Our friends in France are more concerned with what you cook when the power goes out. After all, that's not a reason to eat well! Here are some recipes from our Friends, using simple canned tuna. note, if not comfortable with French accent, use closed captions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LevWbxhIHhE

I had the opportunity eat at the French mess when the French military hosted us at their base in Djibouti. Regardless, the French mess was like a French restaurant; best dinner I had the entire time I was deployed to the Indian Ocean AO. This was long before the U.S. mil had an established base there and I’ll bet the quality of the food dropped.

I have read several rapports from several countries, they all point to the issue of overheating. If you use a pan which is too large (or some places that put a large rock on it), then the heat will reflect back to the fuel canister. This can caus eit to over heat and explode. But most do have a warning about the maxium size pan to use, people just don't read it...

The Iwatani version has a heat shield, the GasOne might as well. I've used that style at work and at home for a few decades with no problems. Ymmv. You do have to use it carefully and mind the instructions.