Equipped for CAS - new tools from Uberti

I received some new equipment for a sport I sort of took up recently. I decided to give CAS a try. After some research I decided to go for a Uberti 1873 short rifle and a pair of Uberti El Patron revolvers with a 5 1/2" barrels, all in .45 Colt. The El Patron is a factory tuned Cattleman 1873 with checkered walnut grips. Both were basically dead on with my first load and produced 4" groups at 25m offhand. The triggers are light, crisp and at the same weight for both revolvers. The sight picture is excellent and easy to pick up. The hammers have small checkered areas on the spurs. The checkering is just right - enough grip for cocking and smooth enough to spare the skin. As SAA clones the handle well and fit my hands perfectly.
The short rifle has a really smooth action and had POI at POA at 50m out of the box. I was able to produce a 4 1/2" group offhand and with iron sights. Optimized loads might improve that a bit.
Overall I am happy with the new guns. Their precision should be more than adequate for the distances and target sizes at CAS.

Interesting. Really good arms for Cowboy Action Shooting are EYE-TALIAN?? What is the world coming to?

Max, I see that you post from Germany. Does this mean that our cowboy sports have taken root in the old country?

Checking out Wikipedia, it seems that Uberti has provided replicas for most of the recent, good Westerns. Aw, shucks...

M_a_x... good luck with your new sport... I have a couple of friends that shoot CAS here in Florida...video is of a friend's wife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9RMeg34C6g

I have a Uberti Cattleman in .45colt too. Mine's not the fancied up El Patron model, but I love it. The trigger is fantastic, I can't imagine how good the trigger on the El Patron must be! Mine shoots to point-of-aim perfectly with 250gr RNFP bullets. I tried some 200gr once, and that was a disaster. Shot several inches low. I kept lowering and lowering the powder charge, until the thing felt like a .22short, but it still shot low. But put in the heavier bullets - perfection! These SAA clones are naturally pointing guns. You almost can't miss with one. I wouldn't jump right to "easy to pick up" on the sights. They are period authentic, which generally means "not that great". But they work. I put some orange paint on my front sight and that helped immensely. I don't shoot CAS - I imagine sight paint is forbidden there.

I have a companion Rossi M92 lever action rifle in .45colt. I love that rifle. I did my own action work on it and it really tuned up nicely. I shoot my Uberti-abandoned 200gr loads in this rifle since I can easily adjust for elevation with the tang sight. So it wasn't a total waste buying a batch of those 200gr bullets. My favorite bullets for the Uberti are Missouri Bullet "Cowboy #1" (250gr RNFP). I also like Bayou Bullet 250gr RNFP's. Powder? Everything seems to work well for me in .45colt, so I use a variety. TrailBoss, Unique, Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231. Theoretically, the case-filling TrailBoss or the position-insensitive TiteGroup should be best, but the others work just as well in my experience.

I think .45colt is my all-time favorite cartridge. Probably wouldn't be if I didn't reload, it's a little too expensive to buy commercially for my tastes. Those big cases are easy to reload for us fumble-fingered individuals. And they last forever, since it's a low pressure cartridge.

The oldest known revolver was built in Europe (The worlds oldest revolver - Youtube). So it´s only fair when we catch up building fine CAS guns.


Yes, it has taken root in old Europe. The shooters are really different from the usual crowd. I like that.

I like the Uberti Cattleman too. A friend shoots a pair of it and I got to use them in class for obtain my certificate and my star. That friend also thinks the trigger of the El Patron is a dream.
I went for the El Patron as the usual jobs are already done and it was not that much more expensive.
The El Patron has a slightly wider rear sight and front sight blade. That makes a significant difference in picking up the sight. Sight paint is allowed for CAS. You can paint your sights as black as you want. That´s more interesting if you shoot stainless steel revolvers.
I considered the Rossi 92 too. The 1873 won as it´s an iconic rifle that should have been in most western movies and made an appearance in "Firefly". Or maybe I just wanted to have one ( with that color case hardened receiver it´s a real beauty).
For me the .45 Colt comes as a close second to the .44 Rem. Mag. but it´s a photo finish. I reload too. I use 6.7 grs of Vithavouri N320 behind a 250grs H&N truncated cone bullet or a 230grs H&N truncated cone bullet (different OAL). The rifle does better with the 230 grs, for the revolver there is no real difference. I am contemplating trying black powder loads too. I am not really satified with loading data I got from fellow shooters though. Pouring 19grs of Swiss #2 and some cereals in a cartridge does not seem right.

I bet you start casting soon. Makes it even cheaper when you are lobbing big lead.
i like the 357 mag with 38 special rounds. A pinch of Alliant Red Dot and lead wheel weights go a long way.

You are right, sort of.
I started casting bullets and making patches for my .54 Rocky mountain hawken rifle and my German jäger rifle some time ago.
For cartridge I prefer H&N bullets. They are galvanized with copper and have a resin coating. The bullets allow hotter loads and do not leave any lead fouling in the barrel. For now I decided to buy the bullets for the .45 colt and spend the saved time shooting.
BTW: Reloading is more expensive than factory ammo. Longer and more frequent shooting sessions do more than compensate for lower price per round . As long as reloading and shooting are affordable fun, I do not care. Other people spend money on their hobbies too.

Quite true! But you can easily delude yourself by only considering the cost of the components, conveniently ignoring the cost of your equipment and time!

Once you're set up for reloading, then adding a new caliber is basically free (not quite, but very cheap usually).

You've got to think of reloading as a hobby of its own, with its own cost of admission. But it's a hobby that just so happens to support your other hobby, shooting.

Yeah, after I found out how slowly one reloads with a home setup, I did a quick calculation (how much is my time worth?) and decided just to stick with the cheaper factory ammo.

So for those who are saying the El Padron or the Cattleman has a great trigger, just how good is it? I often hear that every revolver needs to be taken to a gunsmith upon purchase to smooth out the trigger. With the extra expenses and the enormous wait time, who'd even choose a revolver over a semi-auto these days? But if these revolvers are as good as semi-autos, then maybe?

You have to remember that these SAA revolvers are single action. Meaning the trigger only releases the hammer, but does not cock it (you do that manually). There is nothing "long and heavy" about a single action revolver trigger.

People who have not shot one, and are expecting a trigger like on a Glock or something, are usually rudely awakened by a premature discharge. Hopefully they practice good muzzle control and have the gun pointed in a safe direction, and the person who handed them the gun told them in advance. Some may call these "hair triggers" (they aren't really, but compared to a semi-auto typical trigger, they are much lighter). They are light, positive, with no takeup or stacking, and no grit (they trigger doesn't travel far enough for you to get a chance to feel any grit). At least that is the way my trigger is. And it's stock.

If you do not have specific goals for reloading, that´s probably a wise decision.
I have a fine hunting rifle that produces 8" groups at 100m with both remaining factory loads. My hand loads cut that down to 1/2" groups.
For my handguns I use bullets that don´t foul my barrels. Factory loads are not available with those bullets.
.45 Colt ammo is often sold out around here. Reloading makes it possible to have a reliable ammo source.


The Cattleman revolvers I shot had a smooth consistent pull with a little creep. The actual trigger pull varies between samples. The El Patron has a smooth pull and breaks without noticable creep. There is very little variation in the trigger pull between samples. It´s as good as good target pistol.



The El Patron comes factory tuned. It is match ready out of the box and has a really nice checkered walnut grip for about 50€ more. There is no extra waiting time either.
The choice is not about the best gun for self defense. CAS is a shooting sport with gun technology from the late 19th century. There are even categories for muzzle loading revolvers. The rules do not allow semi-autos. It´s a bit about nostalgia and mastering those guns. I do not claim that the choice to participate in that sport was a rational one.

Hahaha! Reloading never saved me any money, it lets me shoot five to ten times more for the same money!

Thanks, Max. Cowboy action looks like a lot of fun to me, actually. I just don't have all the time in the world...

Sounds like you have it figured out all the way around!

I enjoy the reloading as much as the shooting. Sometimes I have to go shoot so I can try out the reloads or even so i have something to load.

8 inches down to 1/2" is what it is all about.

reloading helps support re-cycling 164# of 9mm brass

+1 Reloading is in itself a great pastime!

My experience exactly. Modern semi-auto handguns can be shot much faster and have a superior magazine capacity... But in terms of sheer pleasure they just don't compare to a good old SAA. Also, the light, crisp trigger helps enormously with accuracy. The best groups I've ever obtained with a fullbore hand gun were shot with a single-action S&W.

A single action S&W or a S&W DA shooting SA? One of the best target pistols I have is a S&W Mod 19 which has an very light (but safe) SA trigger and full target sights on a 6" bbl. It's a .357 Mag revolver and only ever shoots .38 Spl target loads.

It was the S&W Model 3 "Russian", a repro by Uberti in fact. It was actually the only time I shot that gun (borrowed it at the range) but it just "clicked" with me I guess. The ergonomics are great, In general I find those big old-school six shooters much easier to shoot with accuracy than modern off-the-shelf semi-autos.

However, now that you mention it, I've also done some great shooting with various DA S&W models on SA. And one particular Taurus in .357. Can't remember the model though - it had a heavy 6" barrel and a custom trigger job. That thing was sweet to shoot. And I absolutely agree about .38 Special target loads. Much more pleasant than .357 and dead accurate.

I am still learning. It still is fun as I started with realistic expectations.
Some buddies try to cut ammo cost. They chose to reload .38 Special which is a very poor choice in Germany. They use the cheapest components they can get (and still don´t beat the price per round of factory ammo). The result is a failure to fire rate at about 3% due to the quality of the primers. That´s no fun as they are guaranteed to have at least one shot not go off in every match or practice session.

Technically that is reusing. That is even better than recycling.
I give away my 9mm brass to shooting buddies. I do not shoot it much and some factory ammo is cheaper than .22lr. I prefer revolvers because they do not distribute the brass on the entire range floor.

You are lucky with that. For me it had negative side effects. With more practice time the impact tends to be closer to the center of the target. So I do not only shoot more for actually more money. I also have expenses for travelling to matches I would not have shot before. That is made worse by the fact that I decided to get a license for black powder as well when I took the class for reloading (in Germany you need to take a class and have a license). I had to buy a percussion cap rifle and flintlock rifle and attend some extra matches.
On the other hand it´s great to find your name on the upper part of the score lists.
And yes, starting CAS was partly inspired by this too.

Do you have a shooting alias for CAS like clubs in the US do?
What kind of character to you portray?

One of my friends is a High Planes Drifter IE blackpowder, one revolver with percussion caps, balls and spare cylinder etc. Wait for the smoke to clear.

Our Boy Scout troop make money for their camping trips by picking up the brass
for the more elderly shooters.

Odd about the 38 special primers. That is one of the more accurate rounds here.

We have shooting aliases in Germany. I haven´t picked one yet. A fellow shooter already called me Magic Max for my skilled hands. It was not for my gun handling though. I am an amateur illusionist a can do some tricks with a deck of cards. So the character might go the direction of a gambler.




I like black powder too. However I mostly shoot it with a rifle.



It´s not as odd as it may seem. The .38 special is a popular accurate round. It may even be the most popular big bore round here. You can get an abundant, reliable and cheap supply in literally every gun store. That is why it is a poor choice for cost oriented reloading. Buying low price and low quality (small pistol) primers with bigger tolerances in height and diameter can result in unreliable ammo. The also use a multistation press and cheap brass. This may cause light primer strikes due to tolerance stacking and primers moving in the pocket.
I use decent brass and decent primers and I ream my primer pockets. That is slightly more expensive but after a couple of thousand round I still have not had a FTF with my reloads.

Although I still keep my 9mm brass, I don't reload it at this time. Or .223. I'm set up to, and have reloaded these in the past, but not anymore. Because you can buy commercial in these calibers for about the same price you can reload it. OK, I *do* reload small amounts of .223 for my target rifle, but I don't reload for the AR15 anymore since that's mostly a plinking gun for me and I shoot basic/cheap range fodder for that. I reload lots of .45colt and .45auto, .40s&w, and .38spl. Occasionally .380auto, but I don't shoot that much.

I still have my Uberti revolvers and I am very satisfied with their performance. They fit either hand well.
However the rifle developed problems with extraction fairly quickly. They failed to fix it at the gun shop and after a few attempts I decided to trade the rifle for a Winchester 1873 short rifle (they are actually made by Miroku). It has a great trigger, a smooth action and really good iron sights. Only the spring for the safety is a little stiff. For me the fit of the stock is perfect. It is just point and shoot. In hindsight I should have opted for the Winchester in the first place.
People who where allowed to handle it said that it was really slick out of the box. By now more than a thousand rounds went through it without any problem.
I may be a little biased as the equippment (and a bit of practice ) allowed me to place second at my last match.

Do you have a handle for your character yet?

Do you have the shotgun shoots as part of the sport there? The local ones have a flying pop can that releases after you hit a spring releasing target and then you try to shoot the can out of the air with the second shot. The shotguns have to be either exposed hammer pump or break action.

Also they have some side competitions with derringers.

Some of the Canadians had some spectacular outfits and guns.
The laws in Canada were not as restrictive as I thought for owning or transporting various firearms. In some cases (short barreled rifles) they can be less so than the US.

As I picked up the habbit of playing clawhammer banjo I decided to go with "Banjo man" for now.
We do have to shoot shotguns here. They can be side by side, pump action with exposed hammer or lever action with exposed hammer. I use a Sauer & Sohn 12 ga. side by side. As gunfighter I can use a shotgun with internal hammers.
We usually shoot indoors. That does not allow for flying targets. To many shots go into the ceiling already.
Derringers are not allowed. Sport shooters do not get permits for them. Our side matches often involve shooting Sharps rifles on the clock.
Some people around here also have spectacular outfits, knives and guns.
Some try to cheat with their loads. It´s a real nuisance to spot for a shooter when the .38 has less of an impact than a buckaroo´s .22.