Just For Fun

Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Just For Fun - 01/30/16 03:53 PM



I want to get off the island so I will need the inflatable raft. I need water while on the island and water to take with me in the raft so I will need the water purifier. I need something to store the water but the pot looks heavy and the legs may poke through the inflatable raft.

The first aid kit looks comprehensive so I should be able to improvise a water storage container with items from the first aid kit and items on the island.

I can take one more thing and I need a way to signal for help. The options are the flare gun and mirror. Having read every article Doug has probably written, I'd go with the mirror.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 04:23 PM

An inflatable raft is a really bad way to get off a deserted island unless you know where you are, where you want to go, and the wind and water are very cooperative in getting you there. The island is almost certainly a better place to be than on the raft.

For me, it's water purifier, knife, matches, and tent, in that order.

Without water, I've got three days to live. With a knife, I can make shelter and have a good shot at making a fire. With the tent, shelter gets a lot easier, and ditto fire with the matches.

I don't need a mirror if I can build signal fires. An argument could be made that the flare gun could be used for signalling and for firestarting, but I think I'd rather have the matches.
Posted by: Alex

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 04:52 PM

1. Tarp - shelter, heat reflector, cordage, water still/collector/storage/carrier, raft's shell/sail, aerial signal, fish trap, shoes and clothes, wind screen, etc. The larger the better.

2. Knife - multitool. It must be a large knife.

3. Mirror - day signaling. Must be a large one. Other day signaling measures, including signal fires, require spending possibly limited resources.

4. Flashlight - night signaling, fire maker, night light. 4xD cells incandescent Maglite please. Modern D-cells have a tin shell and a lot of power, so with a knife you can strip a piece from one and short battery terminals with it to make fire many times. When depleted, the reflector can be tried for fire starting (depends on its type and size, those fascetted in LED lights are useless)

The actual list will depend on the actual items quality, your condition, weather, and location (which includes possible island resources and chances to be rescued), but 1 and 2 are essential, even if 3 and 4 are nothing at all.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 05:05 PM

The pictured knife looks a lot like the model with a fire rod in the handle (Strike-a-light). That would lessen the need for matches. That pot looks very heavy, but it would certainly work for boiling water, hence scratch the water purifier. I would go for mirror, knife, tent, matches. My choices could vary depending upon the environment of the island - desert? rain forest? steppe?

This thread catches my attention because I am making plans to travel to an island whose population will vary from two to seven during my unfortunately all too short stay. I WILL pack a bit more....
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 05:10 PM

Come to think of it, the first order of business is to find a nice natural shelter,like an open cave or breezy rock shelter and then the stakes, poles, fabric,etc of the tarp/tent can be usefully recycled.
Posted by: Alex

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 05:15 PM

My plan exactly smile Tarp should provide much more scraps than a typical tent. It resembles a dozen or even more of animal hides used by primitive men. The costco blue tarp is probably pictured (I have 4 of these). It's huge, watertight, and reinforced with quite a strong, easy to get out "thread".
Posted by: bws48

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 05:16 PM

Quibble about the water purifier: does it 1) just "purify" non-salt water to make it safe to drink OR 2) does it make salt water into fresh water?

If it turns salt water to fresh, it goes to number one on my list; if it is just a "purifier" of fresh water, it drops down a lot---you have to have fresh water to purify, something that may be scarce on the island. The tarp may be more useful for catching rain water.
Posted by: Alex

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 05:22 PM

The Katadin Mini is pictured: http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Mini-Ceramic-Microfilter/dp/B00G3QNRG4 so, that's just a fresh water filter. You can do fine for many months drinking straight from the surrounding water (if it's not salted).
Posted by: bws48

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 08:23 PM

OK, with the water filter out, and assuming that I am on the proto-typical South Pacific deserted island, and that I am looking at staying on the island for a while,(not sailing off on the raft) my picks would be:


1. Tarp: a real multi-tasker: shelter, ground sheet, rain collection, hammock, etc:
2. Knife; another multi-tasker, if not the ultimate multi-tasker
3. Rope; another multi tasker; can unwind strands for fishing line etc; increases the uses and options for the tarp.

but number four is a hard choice between Matches and the Pot. They sort of go together. But since the matches will run out, and the pot is useful even without a fire, I'll go with that for number four.

That leaves the problem of making fire. . .oh boy, I'm Tom Hanks in Castaway!

In general, I prefer things that will last and not get used up. But if I got 6 choices, I would add the matches even though they will eventually get used up and the hand saw (not really much of a multi-tasker) which will be very useful in cutting wood and help take the load off the knife...
Posted by: haertig

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 09:34 PM

I think my choices would be (no particular order):
---
Water filter
Knife
Mirror
Tarp
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 09:45 PM

Scratch the raft. I'll stay on the island until I'm rescued.

Points on scratching the water purifier have also been made, especially if you have the tarp. Include tarp.

The first aid kit in the picture looks comprehensive. A comprehensive first aid kit can be used for things besides first aid so it's a multi function option: Lister bandage scissors or EMT shears, rolls of tape, alcohol pads for tender, iodine for purifying water and a possible emergency blanket. Comprehensive kits tend to have miscellaneous non-medical items.

I have shelter, either natural or the tarp. I need fire. If the knife includes a fire rod, include the knife. Otherwise, use matches.

I may not have enough resources for a signal fire so I would still need the mirror.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Just For Fun - 01/30/16 10:01 PM

My 5 minute take on this scenario. Probably could think of a lot more if time permitted.

Fishing rod
Aside from the obvious use for the rod. The fishing rod provides a means of catching fish 24/7. Depending on the locale, there are not too many islands where there are not some species of fish to be had. Remove one of the rod eyelets and it can be improvised into a fishing hook with very little effort. Just ensure that the hook is crafted into a circle hook style in order to better the odds of the fish staying on the hook. Also, most fishing reels - depending on fishing line size (normally rated as test), can hold anywhere from 150 yards or more of line. Keep about 100 yards of line on the reel and use the rest for a multitude of survival uses.

Tent
Much better and versatile option then the tarp.
Keeps the mosquitoes and bugs at bay when sleeping at night and also offers shelter from any wind.

Cut the tent floor out. During the day, use as a tarp, rain collector funnel etc. At night, put back inside tent and use as a ground sheet.

Bonus points if the tent has a fly. It can used to make an improvised carry bag, poncho etc.

As for the tent poles. I would remove the poles and replace with thin, flexible tree branches instead. Hint, I know this would work. Years ago on a hiking trip, we somehow forgot a tent pole that had been removed from the tent bag in order to have the cord replaced. 10 minutes work with a knife on a suitable tree branch, we had a workable replacement. It would not take much more effort to make 3 similar for the tent depicted in the image. With a bit more work and using some of the removed shock cord or fishing line, getting the tent to stand not be difficult. The tent pole sections and shock cord can now be used for a number of purposes. In particular, the aluminum ferrules on a tent pole section can be squeezed down then sharpened on a smooth rock to make a spear point of sorts. Lash the tent pole to a suitable and straight tree branch, you have a makeshift spear for any small animals or even to spear a fish.

If the tent did not have a fly, it would be easy to cover the tent in leafy vegetation in order to help shed rain.

Knife
Debated about the knife or the hand saw. Both can be brilliantly used in any survival situation but the edge (no pun intended) goes to the knife.

Pot
Too many good uses not to include. Cooking vessel, water collector. Depending on locale temperatures and assuming you have fire, at night the pot can be filled with small rocks then heated on the fire until hot before bedtime. Bring the now heated pot (with the rocks still in it) into your tent to use to keep the chill off. You would be surprised how effective the pot will radiate warmth in the tent.



Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 12:22 AM

Folks living without the benefits of modern technology (matches) tended to keep a fire going for very long periods; even carrying hot coals wit them when transferring to a new location. Your matches, used sparingly, and supplemented with other techniques, could last a very longtime .
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 05:59 AM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Folks living without the benefits of modern technology (matches) tended to keep a fire going for very long periods; even carrying hot coals wit them when transferring to a new location. Your matches, used sparingly, and supplemented with other techniques, could last a very longtime .


True, but cultures that don't have modern fire tech have many methods of building fire that most modern Western people won't be able to do. Think bow drills, hand drills, fire plows, etc. A lot of city folks don't know how to even select wood, much less prepare it in a way that will allow them to successfully build fire even with matches or a lighter! I've seen folks at campgrounds that can't get a fire going easily even with a can of lighter fluid.

Fun topic! It would be hard to pick the items without knowing more about the island. If it was an island in Alaska then shelter and fire tools would be high priorities to me. But on some equatorial islands there may be high enough temps to not really need fire and of course no suitable wood to build a fire to begin with. In a situation on the latter type of island a reverse osmosis desalinator would be very useful!

Just off the cuff I'd say a tent, mirror, matches and flare gun would be pretty handing in any situation. If there is wood to burn then the flare gun would be a bit less important.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 01:38 PM

Ok, I'll play. I'm going to assume that we're somewhere tropical, and that we're naked and afraid. LOL! No EDC stuff in our pockets, and my eye glasses got smashed on the swim into the beach.

FAK - If this sucker is well stocked it will provide a lot of options. It would be ideal if it includes penny cutters, gloves, triangular bandages, iodine, potassium permanganate and glycerine, magnifying glass, mirror, purelle/rubbing alcohol, cotton, plastic bags, safety pins, pen light, re-hydration stuff, etc....

Tent - This will provide shelter and possible resources for other projects. I'm hoping it has a decent fly that I can use for water collection, protecting the fire, etc. I can cut the floor out and use it as a tarp. The mesh windows could be made into a fishing net. I can use some of the cordage and maybe the zipper pulls to fashion a fishing rig. Lots of options and some built-in bug/little critter protection!

Knife - I'm hoping to I can use it and my brain to find a good rock to strike to make sparks, and to make things using the resources on the island, including the gobs of washed up garbage that we should find there.

The fourth one was a tough choice. I debated between the matches and the boots, and then I picked the pot. My thought is that I can use it to get a fire up off the ground, collect and boil water, for cooking, for making a sea-water still, for protecting fire embers, etc...


As a related aside, did anyone watch the Les Stroud series called "SOS Island", the Bear Grylls series called "The Island" or History Channel's "Alone"? There was the expected controversy around the authenticity of the shows, but I found them interesting to watch.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 03:04 PM

Great point about garbage washing up on shore; it is virtually ubiquitous. I have found working flashlights (dive lights), an unopened can of Pepsi (didn't stay that way for long!) navigation charts, coils of yellow polyester rope, and glass and plastic net floats, just to name a few.

All in all, is you must be thrust into survival mode, let it be along a coast somewhere (add fresh water and you will be in pretty good shape).
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 03:39 PM

Knife - the single most important tool.

Tent - immediately solves the shelter problem, which is more urgent than water or food. Protects against sun, rain and insects, helping to get a good night's sleep. It also is made of a great deal of material and cordage, which could be used for improvising various things if necessary. In my experience, tents collect dew overnight, and if that works on the island it's a water source. It would also collect rain water. I don't see why anyone would pick a tarp when they could have a tent.

Matches - if there's one thing Naked and Afraid has taught me, it's that without a proper fire-starter you're stuffed. Even if you know bow-drills, getting one to work on a strange island where you not familiar with the local wood is hard. If you don't get fire quickly, chances are you'll be too tired and dehydrated, or sick from drinking bad water, to get it at all.

Pot - needed to purify water by boiling. Could also be used to carry fire around. This is the choice I'm least sure of.

I was actually quite tempted by the sunscreen and insect repellent. Sunburn can be debilitating, and insects can make sleep almost impossible. However, I figure the tent will deal with both. First aid kit could be useful, but I don't know what's in it. Few kits have potassium permanganate, for example. Boots: but I'll already have footwear, won't I? A mirror would be useful for signalling, but hopefully a fire would work instead.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 04:05 PM

Is this island tropical, temperate or sub-Arctic?
Posted by: bws48

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Brangdon
. . .I don't see why anyone would pick a tarp when they could have a tent.. .


I thought about the tent and chose the tarp because I assumed that the tarp would be the size of the one I have, which is 11.5 feet by 15.75 feet. It seemed to me that much material could be cut and fashioned into a variety of useful things. Also, the large size would collect a lot of rain water.

Most tarps have a silver side and blue side, which might also help in setting up some sort of signal.

It seems to me to be more flexible to meet different needs than a tent. But no doubt the tent would be more comfortable and effective shelter.
Posted by: Tom_L

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
A lot of city folks don't know how to even select wood, much less prepare it in a way that will allow them to successfully build fire even with matches or a lighter! I've seen folks at campgrounds that can't get a fire going easily even with a can of lighter fluid.


That's an excellent point, one that gets overlooked far too often. Many times I get the impression, also from following various discussions on these boards, that we put a lot of focus, probably way too much for our own good, on modern gadgets and gear in general as opposed to the basic albeit mundane survival skills such as fire building.

Originally Posted By: Brangdon
Matches - if there's one thing Naked and Afraid has taught me, it's that without a proper fire-starter you're stuffed. Even if you know bow-drills, getting one to work on a strange island where you not familiar with the local wood is hard.


True as well, even though I think it has much to do with our lack of skills, or better put a general lack of hands-on practice in the field because there are so many other modern, convenient fire starting methods available.

Starting fire with a bow drill is not neccessarily a very difficult thing to do. As a matter of fact, it may look deceptively easy under the right circumstances. If the environment is dry and with lots of wood and natural tinder available it doesn't take all that much skill IME, providing you know how to build a fire correctly in the first place (a skill sadly not all that common these days).

I have been able to start a fire with a bow drill using different kinds of wood. Oftentimes, the actual selection of wood doesn't even seem to matter as long as it has the right properties - hard to describe but fairly simple to figure out through a little trial and error. The wood should be neither too soft nor hard and above all as dry as possible.

That said, in anything less than ideal conditions the chances of success drop dramatically. Rain, wind, too much moisture in the wood will ruin your odds very quickly. Also, the bowdrill method requires two hands (or better yet three smile ) and it takes a lot of physical effort. Hard to pull off if you're injured, in poor shape, dead tired or with a skull-splitting headache.

I would definitely recommend practicing primitive fire starting techniques, the bow drill being my favorite and probably the easiest by far (I have had little luck with any other method). It could come in useful sometimes and under the right circumstances it is surprisingly reliable. So it might work reasonably well on an arid island, maybe even in a tropical environment with little recent rainfall.

Unfortunately, when fire is needed the most the circumstances tend to be anything but ideal. Add a little Uncle Murphy and it becomes a gamble. So in terms of survival preparedness there is all the more reason for carrying a ferro rod and prepackaged tinder, plus a BIC lighter for good measure...
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 05:50 PM

My question, as well. There is a big difference among those environments.

just for fun, let me jump in and suggest an actual island that has been deserted during historic times - San Nicolas Island, off the coast of Southern California. It currently hosts the US Navy, whose biggest issue today would be a beverage shortage in the PX.

It is renowned as the location of the 'Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island," who lived alone on the island for 18 years during the 19th century. AFAIK, she had none of the items available on our proposed list.

San Nicolas does have some permanent springs, productive tide pools, and edible native plants. Much better climate than those frigid, windswept Alaskan Islands....
Posted by: Russ

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 06:24 PM

Hmmm, still thinking, trade-offs and combinations. FWIW, the knife pictured is a Mora in high carbon steel so could be used to start a fire if the right rock is available.
Posted by: Alex

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: bws48
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
. . .I don't see why anyone would pick a tarp when they could have a tent.. .


I thought about the tent and chose the tarp because I assumed that the tarp would be the size of the one I have, which is 11.5 feet by 15.75 feet. It seemed to me that much material could be cut and fashioned into a variety of useful things. Also, the large size would collect a lot of rain water.

Most tarps have a silver side and blue side, which might also help in setting up some sort of signal.

It seems to me to be more flexible to meet different needs than a tent. But no doubt the tent would be more comfortable and effective shelter.


My point exactly. These tarps are an incredible source for zillions of improvizations, easy to setup and take off, and incredibly heavy duty! You can cut a piece and have no noticeable impact from that on your shelter, contrary to any tent (many folks above plan to cut something from the tent and still retain its bug/weeatherproofness properties after that, but even if you use only the rainfly for something unusual - you can quickly ruin its waterproofness really easy with the typical PVC/urethane coating used for that). Besides, the tent pictured is really not suitable for any serious shelter from elements, as that's the cheap Wnzel Alpine 3 person tent: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PAT60S even the rainfly on it is a joke smile

The FAK could be definitely essential if we know its content. The one pictured, is quite a good one actually (but not ideal, as Jacqui expecting): https://www.optomo.com.au/product/sports-first-aid-kit/ However, I would adjust my kit replacing the mirror with it. So my revised list would be:

Tarp, knife, FAK, flashlight.

A flashlight is better for the night signaling because you can use morse code to convey your message clearly and effortlessly any moment and to any direction (imagine that you heard a ship/plane/copter coming in the vicinity of the opposite to your shelter side of your densely "firewooded" island (tall trees), where you can run, but cannot bring your 3 piles of wood quickly). Also, with the signaling fire, you need to build and feed 3 of them (distress signal) in a wide enough row every night - that's a lot of resources and energy to spend (still doable, granted the island provides plenty of resources to replenish that energy daily).

By the way, I saw a lot of hype on preppers resources about the importance of having a glowstick, which being spinned on a cord should create a "highly visible glow ring" for signaling. However, from my astronomy (and thus light physics and visual perception) experience, a concentrated bright point is much more visible over a greater distance, especially compared to the barely visible glow produced by the chem.stick, dispersed over a large field of view (some may recall the laser beam test explained here a while ago supporting that as well). The wider motion of the light might play a role here, though, so if in doubt, I'd rather hold my >100 lumen flashlight with a long leafy branch in one hand and wave it around making sure it's well illuminated. Or I can illuminate in a SOS morse pattern a well visible from around tall tree instead. A green laser could work great for that as well, if you shake it in a fast "scanning" motion over the tree branches (had heard a loud "wow!" from the half a mile over the lake campground once, when played with my astronomy green laser that way at night, perhaps, thy thought it was an UFO landing smile ).

Another nice "flashlight on a rope" night signaling technique, I'm aware of, is great for the wide open horizon: attach it by the rear end to a 6-7' rope, make a knot (or a finger sized loop) at 2-3' and at the other end. Hold it over the shorter khot and swing the flashlight above the head, making sure it goes close to the horizontal plane, exactly 3 times, quickly switch to the end knot and swing 3 more times. Repeat until tired. That will create the well recognizable SOS beacon, efficiently visible to distant observers from every direction around you.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Alex
Another nice "flashlight on a rope" night signaling technique, I'm aware of, is great for the wide open horizon: attach it by the rear end to a 6-7' rope, make a knot (or a finger sized loop) at 2-3' and at the other end. Hold it over the shorter khot and swing the flashlight above the head, making sure it goes close to the horizontal plane, exactly 3 times, quickly switch to the end knot and swing 3 more times. Repeat until tired. That will create the well recognizable SOS beacon, efficiently visible to distant observers from every direction around you.


I'd never heard of that before, very cool!
Posted by: Teslinhiker

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Alex

My point exactly. These tarps are an incredible source for zillions of improvizations, easy to setup and take off, and incredibly heavy duty! You can cut a piece and have no noticeable impact from that on your shelter, contrary to any tent (many folks above plan to cut something from the tent and still retain its bug/weeatherproofness properties after that, but even if you use only the rainfly for something unusual - you can quickly ruin its waterproofness really easy with the typical PVC/urethane coating used for that). Besides, the tent pictured is really not suitable for any serious shelter from elements, as that's the cheap Wnzel Alpine 3 person tent: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PAT60S even the rainfly on it is a joke smile


Hard to tell, but that tarp in the image does not look all that big. I would guesstimate it to be at the smallest, a 6x8' or at the largest, 6x10'. Either size is too small to be much use in providing an adequate and walled shelter from rain, wind, bugs etc without some serious work.

Cheap tent or not, I still would choose it over the tarp without hesitation. Having a readily sealed shelter from the elements (wind, sun, rain and bugs) makes it a much better option then a tarp any day.

We have a similar "cheap" tent that my neice used when she tagged along with us on camping trips. That cheap tent has easily, 75 sleeping nights in it. So far, the tent has survived rain, snow, wind, flood and to this today, I would not hesitate to use it again for camping - or in a true survival situation. As for the tent fly itself, it measures 45" x 35". Not the largest, but I can think of plenty of uses for the fly in the same survival situation.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
My question, as well. There is a big difference among those environments.

just for fun, let me jump in and suggest an actual island that has been deserted during historic times - San Nicolas Island, off the coast of Southern California. It currently hosts the US Navy, whose biggest issue today would be a beverage shortage in the PX.

It is renowned as the location of the 'Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island," who lived alone on the island for 18 years during the 19th century. AFAIK, she had none of the items available on our proposed list.

San Nicolas does have some permanent springs, productive tide pools, and edible native plants. Much better climate than those frigid, windswept Alaskan Islands....


In that case:

Record lows are above freezing, but not by much, so shelter is a must, but could be improvised with local materials or an improved cave.

Fresh water sources, so the water filter goes down on the list.

Much of the available food can be eaten without cooking, but cooking would still be preferable.

A tarp is very versatile. Signaling can be done with local materials and fishing can be done a variety of ways.

So my choices:

Tarp
Pot
Rope
Knife
Posted by: Alex

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker

Hard to tell, but that tarp in the image does not look all that big. I would guesstimate it to be at the smallest, a 6x8' or at the largest, 6x10'. Either size is too small to be much use in providing an adequate and walled shelter from rain, wind, bugs etc without some serious work.


You are probably right, 6x8. Found it here http://stormprepare.com/Tarp.htm I hoped it's at least the one pictured above it on that shopping list..., still, you cannot make a raft out of a tent:



By the way, another wonder from the same russian guy, where instead of tarp he is using the polyethylene wrapping film.



2000' of that can be had for just $15, and provide a lot of interesting options, including quite a nice shelter:



The best deal I've found so far (in US): http://www.ebay.com/itm/172068497146
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 01/31/16 09:28 PM

We all seem to read various elements into the descriptions of the items on the list and make assumptions - the tarp is a certain size, the tent is a given quality, etc. I would repeat my strategy of searching for a cave, rock shelter or equivalent for shelter. I suggest this not just because the rock shelter might provide acceptable housing; there is the likelihood that the right cave will provide excellent refuge, superior to any tent or tarp.

I say largely because of my experience in Canyon de Chelly (NE AZ). There I spent a number of years excavating and exploring interesting cliff dwellings - one of which I dug for over four years. I noticed that the cave received early morning light, welcome warmth even in the summer. About 11 AM, as the sun climbed higher, a shadow lengthened from the back of the shelter, eventually enveloping the entire dwelling in welcome shade. Rain and snow were no problem. One winter I backpacked into the site, noting that solar radiation was growing an early crop of green grass in one area near the building - something I'll bet those early farmers used to good effect.

One year, I had to sleep at the site for several nights and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. I have had comparable times at other shelters throughout the western US and I prefer a suitable rock shelter to any tent.

Generally, the best shelters are those facing south and east (in the northern hemisphere). The Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island apparently made use of at least one such cave on her island.

Take your tent, its cordage, stakes, and poles, as well as your tarp, and recycle them once you have found the cave of your dreams.
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 03:14 AM

BTW, threads like this are very fun exercises that can really get you thinking about survival! grin Choosing four items is arbitrary, and anyone that hangs out at ETS will hopefully be better prepared than that, but it does help focus priorities.

In my mind a tent would be huge! Obviously a lot camper might have a tent along already as part of their normal load out but otherwise it's bulky enough that almost no one would carry one "just in case". That said, I think having a tent is huge psychologically. Being in a tent does feel like being indoors, making one much more comfortable in strange surroundings. A good test provides a lot of protection, too. It offers protection from the elements (keeping you dry) and protects from convective cooling (the wind blowing on you). It won't hold in a lot of heat but it will prevent many kinds of heat loss. Great for keeping the direct sun off of you, too.
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 05:38 AM

Okay, I'll play.

Handsaw. Tent. Pot. Matches.

Rationale?

Handsaw:
- A handsaw does the work of many knives and will outlast most
- Builds shelter quickly and efficiently
- Cuts all manner of materials -- trees, washed-up fishing nets, coconuts, green bone for the rich marrow, wet trees for kindling
- Polish one side for signalling (marginal)
- Add small cutting edges by grinding on a big, stationary rock (I have done this)
- Musical instrument for entertainment (tie me kangaroo down!)

Tent:
- A modern tent is a tarp, plus poles, groundsheet, mosquito shelter (malaria, black flies), sun/wind shelter.
- If disassembled, you still have: two waterproof tarps, poles for shelter/fishing/dip nets, fine mesh for minnows/bugs, and lots of thread/cordage

Pot:
- Very hard to improvise this simple item
- Potable water, water collection and transport, crude cooking, boiling scrap cloth for bandages, etc. etc. etc.

Matches:
- Making fire reliably without modern contrivances is pretty darn hard; just try it
- Fire solves a lot of survival problems (potable water, signalling, cleaning, disinfecting, deterring bugs/animals, morale)

Honourable mention -- I'm sad that I have to leave Wilson behind:
- Flotation device
- Water carrier
- Basket for carrying tasty, pinchy crabs
- Hat and sandals
- Lashing and bunjy cords
- Patient counsellor who listens intently to my pacing-and-planning-out-loud sessions, commiserates with my sorrows, and laughs at my inside jokes
(Sorry, Wilson, I'm sorry!)
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 04:06 PM

A lot of discussions on conditions so I will present four of them and what I would bring for each. In each situation I would choose the first aid kit.

Warm climate, fresh non-moving water with plenty of firewood:

This is an idea place for mosquitoes and the water may need to be purified.

I need the tent to keep the mosquitoes out.

Matches for building signal fires and drive the mosquitoes away.

Water purifier.

Warm climate, fresh non-moving water with a lack of firewood:

Tent.

Water purifier.

Mirror for signaling.

Warm climate and a lack of fresh water:

Where there is a lack of water, there is a lack of mosquitoes and firewood.

Tarp for collecting rainwater and shelter.

Matches.

Mirror for signaling.

Cold climate with snow on the ground and no other water source:

Tent to keep warm.

Matches to keep warm, build signal fires and boil water.

Pot to collect snow to melt into drinking water.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
No EDC stuff in our pockets, and my eye glasses got smashed on the swim into the beach.

You bring up an interesting point. Some of us need prescription glasses or medications just the level the playing field. I would say level the playing field; some items specific to our needs can be used in a survival situation. Prescription glasses can be used to start a fire if the sun is out. According to Murphy, the sun is not out when you need a fire the most.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 04:45 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
just for fun, let me jump in and suggest an actual island that has been deserted during historic times - San Nicolas Island, off the coast of Southern California.

If I were that close to the main land, I would use the inflatable raft.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 05:00 PM

Good luck! San Nicolas island is more than forty miles offshore and traveling there challenges fairly well equipped watercraft. You face heavy seas, a steady current, and winds from the northwest. If I were stranded there, I would be flashing my mirror full time, anticipating a better ride home than an inflatable raft. Did I mention the sharks? They love to feast on the abundant seals...
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 02/01/16 06:39 PM

And they are large, Great White sharks!
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Just For Fun - 02/02/16 06:29 AM

To hell with leaving. I intend to stay for a while and take a break from the RR.

Pot, because I gotta cook.

Tarp, because it will rain eventually.

Hammock, who wants to sleep in the sand?

Knife, I gotta be able to kill things.

Going back out to sea? Bad idea for me. I am a landlubber.


Kick back, enjoy the view, and try to make the most of your good fortune. You could be back sitting behind a desk dying a slow, agonizing death. Oh wait, I'm doing that now...
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 02/02/16 01:22 PM

I am with you on that Benjamin. Add some beer and it would be an almost perfect vacation!
Posted by: dougwalkabout

Re: Just For Fun - 02/02/16 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: benjammin
You could be back sitting behind a desk dying a slow, agonizing death. Oh wait, I'm doing that now...


+1. (Sigh)
Posted by: Phaedrus

Re: Just For Fun - 02/02/16 07:58 PM

If that island doesn't have internet access then get me outta there! grin
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/02/16 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
If that island doesn't have internet access then get me outta there! grin

If that island doesn't have food and drinks, the medications I need and people to be with, get me off of it.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/04/16 09:40 PM

I just returned from an island with no internet, no phone (neither landline nor wireless), but excellent food and companions,and surprisingly good weather. It's nice to unhook once in a while.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 02/04/16 10:15 PM

I am jealous
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 12:29 AM

I get huge "decompression value" from a camp chair in front of a campfire.
Posted by: Mark_R

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 03:58 AM

Yup. I had a friend in college who was a complete techno-addict until he took a couple of days disconnected. He turned into a bigger luddite than me.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
I just returned from an island with no internet, no phone (neither landline nor wireless), but excellent food and companions,and surprisingly good weather. It's nice to unhook once in a while.


Wildman calls it "Green Therapy". A basic necessity of life for me. wink
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 04:28 PM

I might add that technically I was "working" (albeit as an unpaid volunteer), assessing fossils in a remote location within Channel Islands National Park. It really is "Green Therapy" when work and leisure are indistinguishable.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 05:29 PM

I went from Dallas, Texas to a small community in central Florida. There are a lot of horse pastures and, on the other side of 484, it's nothing but trees. My anxiety has increased. How is being on an island suppose to help?

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/05/16 06:35 PM

Interesting question. I spent my childhood in Dallas and I yearned for the outdoors, which I found by moving west to Arizona and California for college and an NPS career. You, obviously, prefer a more urban environment.

The island in question, San Miguel Island, is remote even by park standards. I relish its solitude and remote location. The setting required exercise (hiking), and provided intellectual stimulation (what are those bony bits, anyway?), and gorgeous views of the mainland and the other Channel Islands,although San Nicolas didn't come into view until I was on the plane headed back to the mainland. There was interesting wildlife - Island Foxes, seals and other pinnipeds, and whales spouting offshore. Vegetation was turning a verdant green.

You could say the hills were alive....
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Just For Fun - 02/06/16 05:47 AM

Bingo!
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/06/16 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
I spent my childhood in Dallas and I yearned for the outdoors

Did you visit the Dallas Nature Center, renamed Cedar Ridge Preserve?

http://cedarhilltx.com/1700/Cedar-Ridge-Nature-Preserve

http://www.dallascounty.org/department/plandev/locations/19-escarpment.php

http://www.dallasparks.org/217/Cedar-Ridge-Preserve

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/06/16 02:22 PM

That there place was afore my time (1946-1953). I did get a bit of a nature fix by wandering through a branch of Turtle Creek which ran through the neighborhood. Come to think of it, that area featured rocks (and some climbing) and fossils. Some things never change.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Just For Fun - 02/06/16 08:45 PM

The outdoors is really the only peaceful time I know. I have spent most of my life outdoors, for various reasons, and I continue to spend as much time as can out there. It doesn't matter where or what the environment is, I just love being out there and away from civilization. I think I would have been happy as a mountain man a couple of centuries ago.
Posted by: Jeanette_Isabelle

Re: Just For Fun - 02/06/16 09:36 PM

For a person who wants to experience the wilderness in Dallas, there are areas along the Trinity River not suitable for construction so the land remains undeveloped.

Jeanette Isabelle
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Just For Fun - 02/07/16 05:00 AM

Away from the things of man.

Having a Jeremiah Johnson moment here.

Yoda on Degobah, before Luke came.

Robinson friggin' Carusoe, before Friday.

Lieutenant Dunbar dancing around a bonfire in front of a sod house.

Castaway.

Just gotta be alone, in the element, in the moment, once in a while.
Posted by: hikermor

Re: Just For Fun - 02/08/16 02:01 AM

It is surprising to see 'wilderness" and "Dallas" in the same sentence. By a good many standards, a strip of undeveloped, still more or less vegetated strip of bottom land surrounded by dense urbanization hardly qualifies.

When I think of wilderness,I have something in mind like the Gila Wilderness in New Mexico, over 550,000 acres in extent. I have spent a fair amount of time there and I would be willing to spend more. The Gila offers solitude, plenty of space, beautiful country, and plenty of room to roam, and those are the essential attributes of wild country.
Posted by: jshannon

Re: Just For Fun - 02/09/16 04:46 PM

Big Bend Ranch State Park, TX- the Solitario area is called "The Other Side of Nowhere"...lol