Rain Gear

A previous rain gear thread is approaching the 2 year old mark and with BPJ and I preparing for hikes in the future it seems prudent to start a new discussion with that in mind.

I had originally planned on using my current rain gear, a frogg toggs pant and coat (as recomended by hikermor in the previous thread above) along with the rain cover for the backpack. However, I've seen several mentions of pack rain covers failing and that, combined with the (relative) inconvenience of jacket and pants has led me to consider something like this to cover both me and my pack. Something like this looks like it would be an easy option while backpacking.

Standard disclaimrs apply, no affiliations with companies or products.

I was wondering if there were other maybe better options available? Thanks in advance.

Ponchos are great as long as you are walking in a straightforward manner on a trail. When you have to scramble, etc., a poncho can get to be a tad cumbersome...

Nothing is perfect in the rain, a fact brought home to me as I just now returned from an aborted trip to Santa Rosa Island, a bit drenched and sodden.

The poncho does q pretty good job of keeping your pack dry,but I would still bag critical items in plastic.

It's like we have one mind, Mark!! LOL!

I pulled out my old rain gear last week and discovered that it's time for a new set. I've had them longer than I've had my kids (I'm guessing about 13 or 14 years) and it's still in great shape, but a couple of sizes too big for me now. With my West Coast Trail trip in mind, I'd like to invest in a new set that fits properly, and will work well in Spring in a rainforest.

Made by Viking, my current jacket/shell and rain pants are the "Tempest II" models. They are a little on the heavy side for my liking, and do take up space when packing, but other than that I have no complaints, including the price, which was reasonable as I recall. They have double stitching and heat sealing on all the seams, and they've stayed water proof all these years without any conditioning. They both have thin lining inside, which I suspect might have contributed to their longevity. The jacket has several pockets, pit zips & zipped chest vents, adjustable cuffs, a shock-corded adjustable waist, a good hood and big fleece-lined collar with velcro, snaps, reinforced shoulders/elbows & hip hem, it has zips for a zip-in-fleece and it's 3/4 length so covers my butt.

Would I buy them again? Yes, I would. But.... they don't make them anymore.

Also note that ponchos don't work very well in windy conditions. Go for a hike in sideways rain with your poncho....after that you will probably decide to get rid of your poncho and buy a good jacket and rain pants combo.

I am a fan of ponchos, but they do have their limitations. I have a set from Marmot that is very light and packs small that is always in my bag that is with me. The tops and bottoms are a size larger than I normally wear so they will fit over whatever I am wearing.

I do have a couple of friends who own military surplus stores. As I live in a military town, surplus military gear is plentiful and cheaper than in most places. I know you can find surplus Gore-Tex, woodland camouflage jackets for about $30 (US). The ones I saw were either new or lightly used. I am not sure about the price on the bottoms. Ponchos generally run $20-$25 in excellent condition (sometime new). Both of these friends may be willing to ship. If you do want to deal with them, I can facilitate that. I trust them both very much.

There is a wide variety of equipment available here and plenty of it. I can generally find gear for pennies on the dollar compared to other sources and places. I help my Boy Scout families get camping gear at much less than they could get anywhere else.

Sorry to go out on a tangent.

Most definitely will keep items bagged in the pack. Fire items are kept in a dry box, clothing in plastic storage bags, FAK in a dry bag, have bigger storage bags for larger items like sleeping bags, etc.

From what I understand, the trail we'll be on involves a significant elevation change, from about 750 feet to 2500 feet within the first 3.5 miles, and elevation further increases up to 3000 feet before the 6 mile mark. I'm not sure if that will be good or bad for a poncho. Heck, I'm really hoping we won't have to use it at all, but 3 days on the trail in April it's a good bet we probably will.

Thanks BPJ, I was hoping you'd find the info useful as well. The frogg toggs I have currently are very lightweight, but they don't seem to pack down very small, but maybe that's a relative thing. I'm hoping a poncho might be the optimum mix between keeping dry, being lightweight and packing small (or at least smaller than the current rain gear anyway).

No problem montanero, I may just take you up on that offer, although it may be a little while before I make a final decision. I'm still waiting for the verdict on whether a poncho will be a viable option, or if i should go the pants and jacket combo, or ... Like you said, there's a lot of possibilities, I also have to think about budget as whatever I get DS usually gets also.

I haven't seen Frog Toggs around here but I haven't been looking for them either. I will definitely keep a look out for them.

I use ponchos in my kits, but not as primary rain gear, particularly if hypothermia is a risk.

I've got a few rip-stop GI style ponchos, and one ruberized German army issue poncho, and they are great in a pinch for emergency use. I like their weight and packability, that it will keep my core and my pack dry, and you can make a good shelter out of one or two of them but, as as has been pointed out above, I've never found them dry enough in a serious rain to use them when I really need dedicated rain gear. I find the water runs off and soaks my pants, and I also usually end up with wet sleeves. I go by the old adage that there is no bad weather, just inappropriate clothing.

On the other hand, as someone pointed out in the WTC trip thread, in serious rain, you might be best to plan to be wet, unless you got a serious rain suit.

Aside from wind, a point that AKSAR correctly makes, another variable that affects the utility of a poncho is the amount of trail side brush you will encounter. A brushy trail makes a poncho rather problematical - not that brush is enjoyable in any kind of rain gear. One of the best things about a poncho is its versatility - ground cloth, shelter, rain gear, etc. I have used them for years and its just that they are better in some situations than in others.

I have that snugpak poncho. Very good for a poncho and the fact that it is closed at the sides makes it not flap in the wind as much as a regular poncho.

But it is not absolutely totally waterproof. It will get wet on the inside with any rain that is heavier than a drizzle. Not a nice feeling if you are only wearing a t-shirt and the wet sleeves stick to the arms. But that being said, it will keep the rain out. Only some of the moisture will seep through.

Hmmm, so BPJ, perhaps a combo of the poncho and the frogg toggs rain pants? Or just stick with my original plan to use the frogg toggs rain gear, use the pack's built in rain cover in addition to dry-sacking/bagging/boxing critical items inside the pack as well?

I've had a lot of positive experience with various military surplus ponchos. My ex-German army poncho (green rubberized type) has accompanied me on a good many outdoor treks over the past 15 years, still going strong. It's absolutely waterproof and can be used to make a very decent lean-to (or equivalent) shelter.

Wearing a poncho in a warm climate gets hot quick, so you will sweat a fair bit after a while. Especially on a hard trek with a lot of physical exertion. Though it's no worse in that department than a rain jacket or anorak in my experience - those things tend to be even hotter because there's less ventilation.

As noted above, a poncho will not protect your legs very effectively, particularly if you're a tall guy like me. One solution is to wear waterproof pants or leggings, but I prefer gaiters instead. Works well for me.

I have not really used commercial ponchos much myself, but I've noticed the ones used by some of my friends (I think one of them actually has that Snugpack poncho) aren't quite as waterproof as the inexpensive military surplus stuff.

Great idea Mark! I do need a good new rain jacket though, for fishing at least.

Good point hikermor, and to that point I have spoken to someone who hikes the trail regularly. He mentioned the same things you did, his exact words were:

On trails that aren't trimmed back well, ponchos can be a pain because they catch on everything. On well maintained wide trails, they provide good coverage and ventilation (as long as it isn't very windy).

He added that on the trail we'll be hiking in April ...

You should be fine with a poncho ...

Doing more research but a poncho appears to be a promising option, with the pants maybe as backup if it gets bad

Herman, are you saying the rain soaks through the poncho fabric? or the wet just finds it's way in?

Tom I'm about 6'3" so I'm considering a poncho/rain pants combo (but what about the boots/feet?)

Don't know about a great idea BPJ, just something i'm considering. Whichever way I decide to go I sure hope it works

I have been know to double up rain gear along the rainy coast.

Once i used old goretex rain pants as my regular pants with light rubber bibs over.

Condensation was trapped in between the layers and I was quite comfortable. We were not hiking where there was a lot of elevation gain tho. so we weren't overheating but we were in inch+ per hour rains.

I have also been known to bring a poncho and jacket and pants. Then I had different options for wind, brush, ventilation and I used the poncho as a vestibule for my tent to cook under at times.

Frog Toggs are cheap and light and breathable. They make ponchos and whole suits. Maybe jacket, pants and poncho. Still might be lighter than a heavy duty rain suit.

We're about the same height then. Rain pants should do the trick - or gaiters alternatively, if you decide to go that route. Wear rain pants over the boots to keep your feet dry.

Either way, good water repellent footwear is essential, preferably with a Goretex membrane. Pretty much any sturdy hiking boots should fit the bill. I'm somewhat partial to Meindl, but it's a fairly expensive brand. There are many good choices available on the market.

For summer hikes, I really like my ex-British army desert boots ("Soldier 2000" pattern). Bought a pair in as-new condition 8 years ago in London for a measly sum of 20 pounds, still going strong. Reasonably cool in hot weather, excellent fit (for my feet at least - this is a highly individual thing) and totally waterproof. I've even worn them in snow - in fact, I'm wearing them daily when commuting to work these days, no problems whatsoever.

For hardcore trekking though, I'd stick with a well fitting par of hiking boots, at least ankle height. And make sure to wear the right kind of socks. Something like wool or polypropylene, that will keep you reasonably warm even if your boots turn out to be less waterproof than expected.

My advert bar on facebook keeps showing me this poncho. Maybe it's a sign?! LOL!

Yes, that is my experience that it soaks through the fabric.
It is made of something called Paratex Dry.

http://www.snugpak.com/technical-information#tech_2



I gues it is that "breathable" part that makes it to allow some moisture to seep through.

BacPacJac,

It is not cheap, but you can't go wrong with Gore-Tex. I have a 20-something year old Gore-Tex parka that has never leaked--even in torrential downpours.

I also have a newer (but still old) ultra-light rain jacket by LL Bean that doesn't list the name of the membrane lining inside the jacket. It has never leaked either. This is probably 15 years old. The newer LL Bean raingear has a ceramic coating and they have a whole line of options. I highly recommend getting something with pit zippers for ventilation. I also like the ultra-lights because if you get something with insulation, you will often be too hot and start to sweat. With an ultra-lite you can add insulation or not. Make sure you get it large enough to wear a layer underneath it. LL Bean jackets are a little large just for this reason.

The great thing about LL Bean is that everything is guaranteed, period. And they have free shipping. The downside is you don't get to try things on before buying (well, unless you go to Maine), but you can return and exchange and the shipping both ways is on them. Hmm, maybe you have an import tax since you are in Canada?

I have no relationship with LL Bean other than being a very happy customer.

Ponchos can be nice too. There are special backpacker ponchos that are longer in the back so they can cover the pack and still reach your knees. As mentioned before they can also be used as rain flies and ground covers. And, of course, they will keep your pack nice and dry. If you have the time and the funds, maybe you could make test hikes in the rain with each.

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Herman,

Breathable, does not mean that they have to leak. Some products use breathable waterproof fabrics but then don't seal the seams (I can't imagine why), or maybe it was just part of a bad batch of material. To make sure it was not sweat you were experiencing, you can confirm that it is leaking by draping some of the jacket over a clear glass bowl, and pouring some water on it. If it is leaking it will be easy to see through the bowl.

Breathable fabrics may also leak after being washed with soap and not well rinsed. The soap residue will reduce the surface tension of the water which allows it to penetrate the small pores of the lining. This is why you should use a soap specifically for waterproof fabrics.

Clearwater, thankfully I'm here in kentucky, so I don't have those conditions to deal with.

What I really need in the way of rain gear is a way to keep myself and the pack dry in the event we get a shower or two while on the trail. As we get closer to the date I'll know more about whether to expect clear weather, a chance of a pop up shower or two, or a wet, rain soaked weekend. I suspect that is true of any such outing.

I currently have the frogg toggs jacket and pants as previously linked to, and my pack has it's own rain cover, but as I mentioned, I've read and been told by many that the pack rain covers can and do fail. As far as the pack goes, that can be easily resolved by waterproofing and drybagging everything in the pack. However, I'm also concerned that the rain jacket and pants combo will be a pain to deal with on the trail. If it were just me I could take the time to stop and put them on, but as there will likely be a fairly large group of scouts and leaders, that may not be an option, which is why I am thinking the poncho to cover everything might be a better option. Just pull it out, put it on, and keep moving on.

As far as the rain gear goes, it's really a just in case option in my opinion, as I'm really hoping for reasonably dry conditions, but as this is a rain or shine event, I have to be prepared for it.

Thanks for the tips Tom, I hope my hiking boots will be waterproof enough to fit the bill. If not, I'll be wearing a thin liner sock under wool blend hiking socks.

If you visited the link I posted then that's why BPJ, I keep getting that too, I think it's part of Facebook's advertising, they can tell by your cookies or history what links and products you've been to and pop up ads related to them. I get it all the time, it was compasses, then it was sleeping bags, and now it's the rain gear lol

thanks for the info herman

if that's the case, then it looks like I'll have to choose between breathable or waterproof.

I suspect I'll probably go with that snugpak poncho, and when the event comes, if we expect heavy rains I'll do as clearwate suggested and double up with the poncho AND the frogg toggs, hopefully the combination will keep me dry, or at least dryer anyway.

Whatever mode you choose and whatever you are wearing, don't expect to remain bone dry - keep a dry change of clothes and your sleeping bag nice and dry deep within your pack. Between rain and perspiration, you will be at least damp. Water finds a way....

just be sure you are not wearing cotton for your innermost layer. Some sort of wicking fabric really works well in rainy situations.

Mark,



No you don't. See my previous post in this thread.

Ponchos have the great merit of being multi use. Rain gear (goes over everything), shelter, groundsheet. Use only limited by your imagination.
Regardless of what else you buy, put a poncho and some cordage in your bag.

I have seen something called rain chaps.You can put on your poncho and then the chaps remaining fairly dry.I feel the chaps would offer better venting.I plan on getting a pair to go with my GI issue poncho. The versatility of a poncho ranks up there with a bandana.The military issued Gortex suits and now issues a small tarp to take the ponchos place. The poncho is a multi tasker (thank you Alton Brown).A rain suit is just a rain suit....

BOATMAN
John

About a decade ago I paid for a couple pairs of Walls rain suits for me and the wife. They felt kinda like nylon, and they worked really well up at the fishing hole in early spring, or out on the trail, or riding the bike. well fitting, reasonably quiet, light yet durable. I still have my pair. The wife gave hers away. Then we moved up here to Alaska and she needed some more, so I bought her some tyvek like frog togs as Costco and she wore them a couple times and then gave them away. Not that she didn't like them. She just didn't use them and wanted room in the closet for her other things. I bought her a $5 umbrella a few months ago so when it rains and she has to go out in it she can stay a little dry if she wants.

Meanwhile, the Walls still fit. I bought an Eddie Bauer rain shell a few years ago when I was in Portland OR and needed something quick. It was on sale and fit well and looked good. I still wear it as an over coat once in a while. I also have a London Fog raincoat for more formal wear that I've had for 20+ years. It looks good, is slightly insulated with a zip-out wool liner, and works just fine. When we go out somewhere nice and I get dressed up, if it is cold and wet I will wear that.

At least the kid appreciates good rain gear, although now that she's down in Tucson, she doesn't need it so much. Well, maybe lately moreso.

hikermor, we've gone to nearly 100% non-cotton for our outdoor activities, we have lots of the under-armor type base layers, synthetic undies, and fleece tops. We'll also have our boy scout and other synthetic shorts to wear. I'm hoping the april weather will cooperate, if it doesn't we'll both have to rely on our 60/40 ripstop blend pants (i.e. if it's too cold for shorts). Not optimal, but best we've come up with so far (don't ask about the removable leg portion of the boy scout shorts, lets just say DW is NOT the seamstress she thought she was lol)

awesome, thanks treeseeker, sorry I missed your informative post there

Thanks for the info leigh, but I do have a couple of questions about that:

1) Doesn't a poncho need to be made a certain way to be used as a shelter? This is really not an issue here as my shelter will be provided via a hammock and rain fly but was just curious.

2) I think someone mentioned somewhere that if a poncho is used as a groundsheet, and then needs to be used as rain gear there might be an issue with mud and such on the poncho? I can't recall if it affected the poncho performance or if was just the inconvenience of having to wear muddy rain gear. Yeah, I know what harm is there from a little mud here or there right? But at any rate, I have a 5 by 7 tarp to use as ground cloth anyway, it's fairly lightweight and packs down nice and small too. Still, If I could leave it out and replace it with the poncho ... hmmmm. The main use I have for this item is to have a spot under the hammock where i can place my gear and take off my shoes, and also cover up said items in the event it rains.

I'd really like to know more about this

thanks boatman, I'll have to look into the rain chaps, any links you could share?

Thanks for the info ben, I carry an umbrella during the week, I have to park down the street and walk to the office, so in the mornings I have the umbrella in the truck for the walk to the office, and can use it and stay dry if it's raining. I carry it to the office even if it's not raining, in case it's raining when I leave the office and I can use it to stay dry on the walk back to the truck.

Unfortunately I doubt the umbrella would be as convenient or useful on the trail lol

If a poncho has grommets or tie strings at the corners and maybe at a few spots along the edges, it will make a perfectly fine shelter. For many years as a starving student, i backpacked with a standard GI poncho as my shelter and it worked just fine, being in many ways more versatile (and cheaper) than a tent. Do carry assorted lengths of cordage and learn your knots.

It is always a good idea to keep the poncho clean and these days including a thin painter's tarp or thin space blanket solves that problem. In order to avoid pcking around excess dirt, I will use a space blanket groundsheet beneath a tent, as well. They have been surprisingly durable.

I use my ponchos for shelters and love the convenience of that. (It took a little while to get used to not sleeping in a tent and now I have a hard time the other way around. LOL!) Grommets are great, and better quality ponchos seem to have more (and better) of them, but you can do without. Just use a rock as a button, and loop your tie-out around it. Works great on blown-out grommets too! As hikermor says, bring cordage and know your knots!