Deteriorating Signal to Noise Ratio?

More and more lately I find myself wondering if it is really worth my time hanging around on ETS? Over the years I've gotten a number of worthwhile tips on ETS, and found a lot of interesting discussion. Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age, but it seems to me there lately has been an overall deterioration in the amount of useful "signal" vs useless "noise" on this site.

The "Save a Life – Surrender Your Knife" thread is a classic example of what I'm talking about. It started with a tiny bit of (possible) signal, regarding a supposed impending ban on pointy knives in the UK. Never mind that Ian (who actually lives in the UK) points out that he has never heard of such a ban. The linked article is from a highly reliable website called "countercurrentnews.com". Doing a quick google search, the only other sites that seem to be carrying the story are such places as "sharktank.com", "angrywhitedude.com", and "rightwingnews.com". Certainly no reason for skepticism here, is there?

The thread goes on for no less than 6 pages (currently) of mostly noise. Even if this alleged campaign is for real, does anyone think all this ranting does anything to stop it? Did anyone change anyone else's mind?

Also note that dougwalkabout correctly points out (on page 1) that even if this is for real, it is really only a concern for folks in the UK. Since as far as I know, the UK is still considered a democracy, it seems to me that it is really up to the people over there to decide if they want this ban or not.

I bring this whole thing up because I lately I find myself checking in on ETS less and less, for the simple reason that there doesn't seem to be as much worthwhile discussion as there used to be. I've also noted that quite a few of the regulars, people who almost always had something worthwhile to say, don't seem to be around as much as in the past. I can't help but wonder if the signal to noise ratio has something to do with that? While I still (for the moment at least) check in on ETS from time to time, I more and more find myself wondering if I should even bother.

I see you've edited your post at least a couple of times in the last 5 minutes?

I also don't think the Campfire Forum should be a place to create extra work for the mods either.

Not only did I edit, I have now deleted. After further thought, I'm not interested in this topic.

In general I agree with AKSAR on the s/n ratio in some threads; I try to avoid those threads. Even topics in the "Around the Campfire" forum need to adhere to basic forum rules. Some threads need to be put out of their misery sooner rather than letting them die a lingering death. Better would be for members to not post in the thread and let it die quickly on its own. Best would be to not start the thread. But some folks think that if they read it on the internet it must be true, so they share it here.

Along with the propaganda from the "mainstream media", there are sites like The Onion, "AMERICA'S FINEST NEWS SOURCE", if you like total BS and sarcasm masquerading as news. No Billy, you cannot believe everything you read on the web.

I'm open to suggestions as to what I can do to improve the s/n ratio.


chaosmagnet

You can't and you shouldn't have to. As long a people keep responding, that "signals" some interest. I find a lot of the topics are ones I have no interest in...but wouldn't want a mod to have to select for s/n ratio. That's in the eye of the beholder. As in most forums, lack of clicks on a thread eventually wins out. Then (months or years later) some mope who can't read a date revives a defunct thread.
That's the price you pay to avoid edited and censored sites. Just "filter" with your head and fingers.

People who'd equip and train themselves for survival are particularly sensitive to risks. I know because that's the case for me. Sometimes that useful characteristic, combined with a certain political point of view, ends up responding to risks that may not be there, like in the case of the supposed knife ban in Britain. Sometimes people want to vent about those fears. Perhaps the only way to address is to avoid political threads -- and "political" means more than gun politics. Stick to gadgets, techniques, or ideas we can use in an emergency or to prepare for an emergency. I don't see how the supposed British ban is a gadget, technique, or idea I can use in an emergency.

This is a good forum. Let's not let it go down the drain.

I do not think that you could do that. It´s hard to even tell the s/n ratio on an objective base.
It´s not that hard to not read topics I have no interest in.
After all the sheriffs have enough work and do a good job. IMHO there is no need to increase their workload.

Bingley has a good point there.
If it is "a gadget, technique, or idea I can use in an emergency" then write about it. If not, then don´t write about it.

I don't see a problem there at all. Old hand folks here may simply age-up and out, loosing interest into already perfected survival subject in favor of something else. Or they might have found a more "thrilling" survival forums like AR15.com (I don't, by the way, exactly as other thematic forums are way too hectic and require a lot of attention to filter out noises and trivial discussions). But perhaps, exactly that's why some younger members (who might be coming from those forums) may feel the urge to wake up ETS forum a bit by shaking everybody like in that UK knife thread?

Personally, I'm less frequent here after I have noticed that this forum don't keep or is not able to lookup messages history for more than like 3 years back, or something... That's pretty much what's discouraging me from actively sharing a general knowledge or personal experience here - I know, it will be gone soon... But if you could just add those good old signals to the today's minuscule noises, you are concerned with, - I'm sure you would see the noise/signal ratio near to zero.

That is interesting, I just checked and it is limited to 3 years. I am not sure why, I can go back and view very first post from 2005.

Maybe there is something we can do about that, but than again maybe not.

It's exceedingly rare to see a thread go wrong at ETS. I don't really see any issues. If anything I said added to the problems I apologize.

This is the main reason I had only 13 posts ALL LAST YEAR. The threads I visited mostly were commentary in nature...all fluff and no REAL content. Opinions, he said/she said stuff...I read the first post in a thread, and if I don't care, I move on.
Perhaps I've outgrown the site...hopefully not because I learned a lot in the first year or two after I joined. I haven't watched the news in 25 years, I haven't read a newspaper in 30 years, I'm not into social media AT ALL. What I've learned on this site I've actively searched for.
Is ETS still relevant..absolutely. I respect the mebers with thousands of posts...but I know I'll never be one of them. I don't even have 200 in six years! I'll quietly learn what I need to, and research stuff that is relevant to me and my family.
Thanks to all the old timers for being there and passing on your knowledge to everyone willing to take being prepared seriously. Not in a radical way, of couse, but in a responsible way that encourages everyone to grow and help look out for each other.

I participated in the thread at question; I don't think my post stepped over the lines, but if it did, I apologize.

I value different points of view on topics. I have found my preconceptions challenged by people who have had different experiences in different situations---different from my own, which challenge the conclusions I have drawn from my own experiences, and in several cases, caused me to change my preps.

So, for me, it is not just about the equipment, but when and how what is needed and how to use it, or avoid the situation entirely.

Facts and experiences, our own and that of others, are building blocks we need. Opinions, are just that: to be treated as information, but not evidence. I always try to remember "I could be wrong." So can the poster's opinion.

This forum has a tremendous base of real world experiences and expertise to share, and points of view about those experiences. I do not consider respectful, even sometimes heated, discussion of those experiences and points of view "noise." They do, often, need some thinking about. Unsubstantiated opinions, not so much.

For example, most recently, I learned a lot about Ebola in this forum that I never heard in the news. We had several members who were quite well informed on the subject, and I, for one, learned and appreciated their factual (and fact based opinion) input.

I hope we all can take a deep breath and focus on exchanging facts, information and yes, fact based opinions based on our experiences that can help other members be prepared for eventualities that we hope they never have to endure.

Mere discussions of piece of equipment "A" is better for survival then "B," without a full exploration of the context of its purpose, use, and alternatives, including opinions on these topics, is really not useful to me. Wading through all of those details and discussion can sometimes seem like "noise," but often that is how I learn to make my own trade-offs and judgments.

In response to your request, I would like to say that you don't need to do anything (even though I said I am not interested).

The thread "Save a Life", which prompted this thread, is the most useful thread that I have ever seen on this site. I'll tell you why. There is one post in there by a guy who has posted only 55 times since 2008. The thread prompted him to share the fact that he had to shoot and kill a home invader. He's disabled and uses a wheel chair.

I have since introduced myself to this user in a private message and have become a sort of Internet friend. He has shared more information that has been extremely useful. If I could take just one nugget from this site over the years I've been here, then it would be the interaction with that one user.

By the way, in all my years of living, I have found the biggest gold nuggets of information come from natural conversations with people. If moderators were to meddle with the natural flow of conversation, then I highly doubt this site would get the type of gold nuggets that I described above.

The simple solution is to have users ignore threads in which they have no interest. Such a solution reduces your workload, keeps your site rich with gold nuggets, and encourages members to develop another survival skill. Yes, learning how to filter noise is an important survival skill.

Thank you for the positive comments in this thread about the moderation, I appreciate it.

It's worth making clear to anyone who is new or otherwise does not know, Doug Ritter owns the site and makes the rules. Blast is his appointed Sheriff. I am a volunteer deputy and I do not make the rules.

My preference is to have as little moderating to do as possible. ETS has been experiencing an ongoing wave of spammers attempting to register accounts, but even with that the workload is low and cooperation levels from posters is generally extremely high. For which I am very grateful.

Keeping in mind that I don't make the rules, I am always open to suggestions.


chaosmagnet

Thanks AKSAR for starting this thread. You have written far more eloquently then I could on the seemingly slow demise of this once great forum. I too share your thoughts and also have substantially curtailed my active participation here for quite some time.

I find that that this forum no longer suits my primary interest of outdoors adventure - and survival as the direction here is turning more concentric to just general commentary rather then advise and tips on how to be equipped to survive.

Much of this commentary and discussion can be off-putting as many times it turns into a long drawn out thread and which, 75% of the info is not relevant and only presented in a misguided game of one-upmanship of quickly (but not researched) internet gleaned "knowledge" wars with fellow posters.

I am contemplating in purchasing some semi-remote land for vacations, long weekends etc. Currently investing time, research and some money on solar and other alternative energy technologies with real world testing during longer camping trips to see if this would actually be right for us.

I have often thought about starting a thread here on this topic but do not think it would be all that worthwhile as another aspect of this forum is it does not seem to have many people who are actually outdoor active, let alone into short term, semi-remote living and survival.

That all said, I still check the forum multiple times per day hoping there will be some good threads to read and comment on...

I for one would appreciate such a thread. I'm not sure I would have much to contribute but I would be very interested in reading it.

One person's "noise" is another person's "music".

So long as things remain civil and reasonably on topic it would be a shame if someone didn't post or reply to a post for fear of thinking that their thoughts would be perceived of as "noise".

I know the number of my posts have decreased over the years because as I learn I ask fewer questions. On top of that as these old bone age I find myself spending less time in the "deep" outdoors. Still, I continue read the forums and reply when I think it might be helpful.

I have to agree with KenK's explanation.

I am still very active in the outdoors and value this forum very much. While I may not post a great deal, and sometimes it is only a brief response or a weak attempt at humor, I read daily and I have learned much from the discussions.

I too like Ken K's comment. Discussion should not be stifled. That being said, there are different areas for different types of discussions and this seems to work for me. I value the very objective and qualitative nature of Aksar's posts, and the experience from other members. Different perspectives are valuable.

There are times, although it is minimal on this forum, when people do discuss things without being critical or checking their facts. That is human nature and I don't think it can be avoided completely.

I for one would miss this forum greatly if it were not available.

Montanero saved me a lot of typing,thats my response to all this word for word.

Communities change. This one certainly has. I find that I have largely pulled back from it. But why is that?

I think this forum was at its finest when most of the members shared an overarching common cause. We were on a mission to educate and encourage others to develop knowledge and skills in wilderness safety/survival, disaster preparedness, and general self-sufficiency.

To achieve that, we had to have a "big tent" mentality. The forum had to be open and welcoming to everyone. We were opening the door for people who would be instantly turned off by the typical nutbar rubbish in most "survivalist" forums. And that meant the way we communicated (civil and respectful tone) was as important as the content -- it signalled that this was a place where reasonable people could discuss these topics in a rational manner.

The moderators got involved, certainly, when threads went off the rails. But with most community members on board with the common purpose, there was often self-correcting feedback when posts and threads strayed from the high road. We all recognized that the tone was at least 50% of the message.

So, from that point of view, it doesn't work to say "ignore the threads you don't like." A few toxic threads, with insults, baiting, political undertones, and an "us-vs-them" mentality, taint the entire well. Every post on every thread either opens the door or slams it shut.

My 2c.