just another AR 15 thread

Due to a change in gun laws I can now acquire semi automatic rifles with a magazine capacity over two rounds. I intend to use it mainly for target shooting and maybe on a hunting trip or two.
I kind of decided to go for the AR 15 platform. One of the rifles that made it to the final decision round is the Sig Sauer M 400 or the the M 400 enhanced carbine. I might want to add a bipod and a scope or a red dot sight. Accessories like flash lights or lasers are off limits (highly illegal where I live).
Does someone around here have experience with this rifle? If so, are you satisfied?

Max.. I've shot a bit of 3 gun using the AR platform... don't have a Sig, but my cousin does, and I shot his... pretty much a standard AR.. forged 7075 receiver with the MagPul furniture... his shoots 1 1/2" or better at 100y...if you are looking for opinions for a competition rifle, I'd suggest a full float forend, mid length gas system, and a better trigger, but with the Sig name, you should be good to go for targets out to 200m or so...

So long as you know that what you are shooting is a varmint round OK. It shoots fast and flat but it costs a lot more to shoot than a .22 and it does not have the range or knockdown of a .308 or a 30-06.

I don't own any Sig Sauers but my three gun buddies that do really like them.

Meh. A lot of the new rounds do just fine with large game. Yeah, they're still a .224 round, but still.


Don't know much about the Sig, but check out M4carbine.net (less BS to sift through) versus AR15.com (lots of background chatter).

Any reason on this particular model? From what I've read, it's had a mixed history.

Why Semi-Auto, why not get a good bolt rifle!

http://www.sportingservices.co.uk/accuracy.asp

What's Sig's quality like these days? I heard in 2012 from a reliable source that Sig developed some serious problems. I don't remember the details anymore, except that it was about QC with the sear in the handguns. I don't know whether this might apply to your prospective purchase.

Here's an explained list for the benefit of those who may be unfamiliar with firearms.

1. Lower recoil for a given caliber. This is a definite plus as you move up in caliber. Bolt, lever, pump, and break action firearms dump ALL the recoil through the stock into your shoulder. A semi-automatic uses some of the energy to load the next round. Having shot all these except the bolt action, it makes a difference. I'm not small by any measure but I wouldn't want to use a 12ga pump or break action shotgun for birds. An afternoon of that and even with a recoil pad on the gun will give you a bruised shoulder.

2. Higher magazine capacity. Do I expect to need it except to cut down on interruptions to reload at the range? No, but it's nice to have if I do.

3. Exchangeable magazines. Some bolt and lever actions use a fixed rotary magazine. Loading a fixed rotary magazine rates high on my list of top PITA's ever.

4. Cost and availability of ammo compared to most bolt action rifles. Decent to good quality 5.56mm ammo is readily available and is CHEAPER than 22 Magnum (if you can find it) as of last night

5. Customizability. If you can think of it, someone probably makes the accessory for an AR. Even some that make you scratch your head & go "Hunh?"

6. Adjustability. The AR and similar Modern Rifles can be adjusted for comfort to fit a range from a small woman to a large man in seconds and reversed just as fast. Doing that with most bolt action rifles requires a permanent stock modification & is not quick.

For an off the shelf ar-15, the sig is ok, but it is a bit pricey. Not as bad as some, but more than you need to spend for a good M4.

One of the biggest advantages of an AR platform is perhaps it's modularity, along with it's popularity. What this means is the platform lends itself to easy customization. You can start with a bare-bones model, or even just a list of parts, and put it together (or find someone to do it for you for a modest price), for less than $700. Now that is a lot more than many good bolt action guns, but an AR is capable of a lot more than a standard bolt gun shooting the same or similar cartridge. While it is correct to say a good AR will do everything a bolt action can do, the reverse is not true. In certain applications, this difference can be extremely important. This isn't disparaging of bolt guns. They just have fewer applications.

Back to the modularity thing. Since AR's are component guns, it is fairly easy and relatively common for AR owners to modify their guns in various ways. In my case, I have an AR that I can swap out my barrel and forearm (referred to as the upper) just pulling two pins out of the receiver. I can then swap between a short barreled carbine with a compact hunting scope mounted on it, which I sling for expeditionary work, or a long heavy barrel with a bipod attached and a large, heavy, high powered target scope. I can also swap out uppers and change cartridge capabilities, or I can swap out just the bolt and magazine and shoot 22 from the same gun.

There's more advantages to having/using an AR, but these are the bigger ones to me. Of course, I like having a good semi-auto that I put together myself and will unload 30 rounds at 300-400 yards in a minute and bang the gong on every shot. But that's just me.

The short answer is: Because I want to own a semi-auto for recreational shooting.
I already have good bolt action rifles. One is a Mauser 98 System with a 24" barrel and chambered for 7x64 Brenneke (roughly in the performance class of the 30-06). It can shoot 1 MOA or better. The other is a Steyr Mannlicher chambered for 5.6x50 Magnum (performance is a bit over that of the .223 Remington round). The Steyr Mannlicher shoots 0.5 MOA or better out of the box with bullet weights of 50 grs to 55 grs. There might be a little potential for improvement with handloads.
UTAlumnus already did a good list of advantages of semi-auto rifles. I admit that the recoil of a .223 bolt action rifle is not an issue. However I intend to use it for falling plate matches. With a bolt action rifle you are seriously outgunned by the semi-auto shooters. Changing a magazine hurts as time counts. The .223 is the minimum caliber for those matches.

My next rifle purchase will be either the Ruger Gunsite scout rifle or the Ruger SR762. I haven't shot a 7.62mm rifle but I'm leaning toward the SR762 due to the advantages I've listed even though it's twice the price. Can anybody give me a recoil comparison in break or pump action shotguns to a .308 bolt action?

A standard 308 bolt action hunting rifle is about half the felt recoil of a solid pump 12 gauge shooting 3" hunting loads. At least it is on my frame.

The recoil characteristics differ. The recoil of the shotgun increases slowly to the peak. The recoil of the .308 bolt action develops faster and is more pronounced. I´d join benjammin´s rating. I rate it roughly at half or a little less. The .308 was an old Steyr SSG and my 12 ga shotgun is an over and under shotgun made by Mauser. The shotgun is a light weight hunting model.

Thanks! That puts it in perfect perspective for me. My 12ga is a Mossberg pump w/ turkey length barrel. Acceptable hunting recoil but more than an afternoon at the range.

Edit:
PS That's for anything except birds or skeet.

Max.. if they shoot multi gun (3 gun) in Germany, you might give it a try.. a fun all around shooting competition

If I find a range in a reasonable distance, I might give it a try. Unfortunately there are so many shooting activities that promise to be fun and so little time for it. I started shooting muzzle loaders this year and already promised some shooting pals to join them for a safety course for SASS.

My next gun will be a Beretta CX4 Carbine since it's already on layaway, but my next planned purchase is an EBR, probably a Daniel Defense.