Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA

“Volunteers needed to aid in a scientific study conducted by the NRA. This study will need soil and paint samples from various sources at the top of peaks within the wilderness throughout Southern California (in the Los Padres National Forest of Santa Barbara, Los Angeles and Ventura counties) and in Central California near Big Sur and Carmel (in Monterey County). Volunteers must be able to partake in a strenuous hike, between 8 and 12 miles round trip with as much elevation gain as 3000’, while carrying a backpack to hold scientific equipment and sample containers (no more than 30-40lbs). These sites may require the use of ATV’s in order to reach them. Volunteers must have meticulous record keeping abilities as well as a familiarity with GPS and camera devices. Detailed sampling protocols, as well as directions and equipment, will be supplied to volunteers after interest in this study is shown. Volunteers will be coordinating closely with scientists from the NRA as they sample and hike to these sites in order to ensure accuracy of sampling, as well as aiding the volunteer with any questions or directions they may need in order to locate the sites and comply with the scientific protocol. Thank you very much for your interest, and aid in helping this important scientific study.”

more info


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=751136

Thanks for the tip. Since this is right in my backyard, I threw my hat in the ring. Sounds interesting.

Soil and paint samples, at elevation? How much paint is there at the top of SoCal peaks? What's this study about?

A fair amount, in some cases - fire lookout towers, present and past. Most of these would have been erected early in the 20th century, and of course they were painted. I doubt anyone specified lead free paint, if they even knew of suvh a thing.

The fire tower in which I worked the summer of 1957 was mostly steel, but there were painted elements within the cabin. The typical lookout was a frame structure about twenty feet square, sometimes with ancillary buildings.

What does NRA need soil and paint samples for?

Fun!

Thought exercise: You're going to be hauling 40 pounds of scientific gear to somewhere kinda remote? What else are you going to pack?

I suspect it has something to do with California Condors and lead amunition.

Not a whole lot more.....

Haha! I'd be thinking the same thing, I suspect. I'm working on my GHB/BOB right now and it's probably about 40 pounds with food and water. Wouldn't want much more than that. Of course, in my younger more foolish days... LOL!

What kind of a trek are we talking about for this project? Are weather, mechanical injury, etc. risks?

Walkie talkie comms? Cel phones? PLBs?

Since it is the NRA, I assume they want to study the effects of lead ( from ammo ) on the environment.

In a local camping/hunting forum , a discussion of this sort took place but from health angle. How much lead does a hunter consume from within hunted birds and small game ? The discussion went on to discuss scattered ammo in the environment consumed by other animals or birds, or just leaching into plants, which are consumed by animals and birds.

Remember I am NOT from the USA. So, no debate is intened here.

I think that maybe , just maybe, someone in the NRA is sensing someone on the other side gearing up to raise concerns about the negative environmnetal impact of hunting on the environment & wildlife. So, some NRA folks want to collect their own scientific ammo for such a confrontation.

Maybe.



p.s. Mods can delete my last paragraph if need be.

I would agree with you. In the guns/anti-gun debate, I roll my eyes at the lack of objective data. So, I am happy to back any effort that will yield good information. It is interesting that they mention paint samples. It would indeed be interesting to determine how much lead has been introduced into the environment from applying a spiffy paint job to that nice new fire lookout, a favorite project back in the Great Depression. I can recall one lookout on a desert peak in Arizona where the fire danger was nil. And yes, it was decaying, with splinters and slivers of paint all over the place.

I would happily return to that summit to obtain samples. What a great excuse for a good climb!

Thinking even further back in history, many southern Arizona peaks were occupied as heliograph stations during the Geronimo campaign. That might have brought in a little lead here and there.

Its already an 'issue'

Here it is....

California lawmakers weigh first statewide ban on lead ammo

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/.../#ixzz2RxtaMW74

Once again, please do not discuss the politics around guns on ETS. Any further mention of it will bring action from me.



chaosmagnet

Very interesting. And right up my alley, at least in LA county. Up to 40 lbs though in addition to one's regular gear? Yipes.

HJ

I agree with the others who said this will be done to measure lead in the soil to counteract any lead bullet complaints.

Sidenote, I'm currently working with Doug Ritter at the big NRA conference here in Houston. So many wonderful toys...
-Blast

A similar study was done in the southwest several years ago for traces of lead from bullets and shot. My shooting range is in a small canyon where the walls are eighty odd feet high so the projectiles will be buried deep as the walls collapse. I still worry about it leaching into the water table however.

???

40 pounds of gear? Sounds like a lot more than just minor samples. Here they tested water, soil, foliage and woody materials. f I remember correctly all thier samples fit in a little cardboard box barely larger than an altoids tin. And why test so high up there? They don't put a watch tower on every peak.

The mention of legislative action on lead ammo was what I was referring to.


chaosmagnet

Let me clarify for deputies and mods alike. It is okay to mention legislation in a neutral manner. Stating some law has or is about to be passed is fine and will not incur the mods attention from here on out. I apologize for not being clear enough about this.
What will get the mods attention is the taking on one side or the other about a piece of legislation, stating an opinion about why it sucks/is the best thing ever. That always leads to flame wars, which is not go for long term survival. I did not see any issue in this thread so far.
-Blast

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most lead from the case/powder, not the projectile?

I understand most bird shot is probably lead, and most .22lr is. However, most hunting rounds tend to have relatively small amounts of lead, and let's face it, most metals aren't prone to dissolving.

I did find this article in a fast google search, which suggests that lead poisoning in animals is from lead fragments in hunted animals, more than leached to the environment. Seems to reinforce the point of shooting only what you can kill confidently (FYI, not a hunter)
http://www.nps.gov/pinn/naturescience/leadinfo.htm

Perhaps the NRA is seeking data to refute the perception that shooting causes higher environmental lead levels?

The case is brass (sometimes steel or aluminum), the bullet is lead, sometimes coated but lead.

Right, I know about the case. I thought the primer had lead in it or something.

It depends on what they use for the primer. IIRC several of the compounds used for primers contain lead.

OK. Thanks for clarifying! I'd read somewhere that reloaders got exposed to lead during their cleaning/processing phase. That didn't make sense to me if the only lead was in the projectile.

and here I thought the lead issue (paticularly with indoor ranges) was from the lead particles coming from the bullet due to heat/pressure of firing and the nature of a bullet being sheared by the barrel rifling while spinning up.

Ever notice the difference in firing cast lead bullets versus jacketed bullets? Even using the same powder and primer, the amount of blast particulates are much more with cast lead. This is the reason many rounds these days are total metal jacket including the base to eliminate the exposed lead. The amount of lead in the primer is fairly small relative to that contained in a bullet.

There is considerable lead residue in a barrel that has been firing cast lead bullets -- lots. Nitrile gloves are recommended.

That's all my opinion from personal observations. If I am mistaken in my analysis of what I saw, please correct me.

Lead exposure on the range comes primarily from lead styphnate, a major component in most primers. The exposure is airborne, which is why ventilation is so important for indoor ranges. Gunpowder and cartridge cases have no lead in them. Lead exposure from handling bullets (not cartridges) is too small to worry about unless you do a lot of reloading of unjacketed bullets, in which case I'd advise you to wear gloves while handling them. While there is some lead exposure from fired bullets and shotgun pellets, my understanding is that the lead styphnate in the primers is what really counts.

Sounds good to me, thank you for the clarification.

I don't reload so I don't know how much primer residue exposure there is. Another source for exposure is fumes from molten lead if they cast their own bullets.

I was referring more to you saying not from the projectile. I was thinking if they are hiking up someplace I would think they are probably studying the effects of the lead projectiles that may be left behind.