Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO

So I'm doing my fall preps for winter - we re-pack our go bags and all of that, and I have this fire safe...it's got an electronic keypad lock, which is nice. And I thought..."Gee, I don't remember changing the batteries on that thing for a long time....I wonder how I'd open it if the batteries died?"
It's working just fine right now...but you know, if we had a fire, I'm sure the electronics would be destroyed...so how the heck do I open this thing without the electronic keypad?

My pistol safe (also with an electronic lock) has a trouble key for just such a purpose, but as I examined the larger fire safe, I found no way to use the key to open the safe.

I found the owners manual...not a mention of bypassing the electronic lock if the batteries are dead.

As far as I can tell, the only way to open this thing if the keypad is dead is to cut the safe open. Harumph. Not what I want.

That is strange. The most i have seen, also have a backup key system to bypass the electronics. I also noticed a lot a safes have there battery compartment on the outside.

I wouldn't trust that either. Actually, I have gone out of my way to have only mechanical locks and safes for everything.

Yikes,not good.Then again watching storage wars.....dont seem too tough to open in emergemcy failure mode of device.

No problem. Many of those safes pop open easily if you just pick them up and drop them at an angle from about six inches to one foot high. Others can be opened with a paperclip. No kidding. The locks on these "safes" are ridiculous (even on the multi-hundred dollar ones). They have all this fancy electronic pushbottom stuff, and fingerprint recognition stuff, but none of these ways to unlock something matters if the lock mechanism itself is a piece of trash to begin with. Many of these locking mechanisms ARE trash.

Here is one article demonstrating some of the failure modes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertob...three-year-old/

There is a video link partway down the first page of this article. Check it out.

I have seen some electronic door locks that have two inconspicuous metal contacts on the bottom edge where you touch a 9V battery and enter a master code to open the lock in the event of a dead battery.

Welll...for one I have that EXACT MODEL of pistol safe (the Stack-On one) and it says VERY CLEARLY in the instructions that it must be bolted to a wall and shelf - the "drop" hack should not even be able to happen. But just to test, I pulled it off the wall and did that drop/whack test many times and the door did NOT open.

But I also bolt all my safes to the building.

The electronic lock on my pistol safe (using the term loosely) failed early and I went key only. I would not buy another. My real safe has an S&G tumbler lock (no batteries).

All safes can be defeated; it's a matter of tools and how much time, skills, and noise you want to put the attacker through.

Most electronic locks do not impress me. I would recommend an S&G dial combination lock for a gun safe, for resistance to theft, fire, and software/firmware problems.

Just like there are high end combination locks, there are also high end electronic locks. If you're buying a 'safe' from a typical big box store, you're getting neither.

We've got some high-end TL rated safes, and they're a totally different animal from most of the consumer garbage out there. In these security rated safes you can get high end S&G electronic locks, or even KABA locks, which are electronic, yet require no batteries.

On the high end, electronic locks can do things mechanical locks can't. You can set time delays (so the safe will only open during business hours, even if you have the code), you can track dates and times the safe was opened (as well as who it was opened by if you give them an individual code), you can set it to lock out after a certain number of failed attempts, you can set it for dual mode (essentially requiring two people to open it), etc.

Basically, depending on what your needs are, electronic locks can do things mechanical locks can't even dream of.

With that in mind, if you're buying a cheap firebox or even a rated RSC for your home, you're probably better off with a mechanical dial lock. Even the low-end ones are relatively simple and robust, whereas low end electronic locks often aren't.

My safes and locks are for keeping children and honest people out. I expect a dedicated thief can get into anything in my price range. I plan accordingly. I make it so my life won't be turned upside down if whatever is in the safe is suddenly gone. Redundancy, not everything goes in one spot. Again, I use mechanical safes and locks only.

I have a Vline safe for a shotgun, no beeps, no batteries, a basic pushbutton mechanical safe that I can operate by touch. I like it lots and I think I'm going to add another one.

I'm looking to deter casual access, not prevent theft.

I'm big on the Simplex push button and S&G dial locks myself. Not to go all apocalyptic on you, but I do not know what an electromagnetic pulse will do to those electronic locks. Not that such a thing is a likelihood, but in a worse case scenario, I would not want one of those locks between me and any essentials.

I had an electronic safe once, it did come with emergency access keys. One day I needed to get into it in a hurry and, of course, the batteries were dead. In my panic I could not remember where I had hidden the emergency keys. Two quick smacks with a hammer and I was right inside. So much for security.

As much as I'd like the convenience and speed, I'm sticking with old-school key or combination locking safes for now on. I'd rather invest my money on security than fancy technology that is likely to fail again at a critical moment.

Paul hit the nail on the head.

On the cheap end, mechanical locks are probably more reliable than a cheap electronic locks, mostly due to their simplicity. But when you get to the high end locks, electronic locks offer many advantages that mechanical locks can't. If you walk into any bank or extremely secure facility, you probably won't see too many mechanical dial locks. Mechanical locks also require regular servicing to stay reliable, depending on how often it's used and in what conditions.

There are advantages to each, and it's a good idea to have one of each type. Electronic for everyday quick access, and mechanical dial lock for long term infrequent access.

When I was talking to a safe installer years ago, he was telling me about how the mechanical high security dial locks used in government facilities are actually designed to be shielded from radiation.

When I asked him why, he said that, apparently, someone discovered a portable X-RAY machine can make figuring out a mechanical combination pretty easy.

This was one of the driving forces behind a shift to electronic locks. X-RAY an electronic lock and all you can see is the circuit boards.

But you can use similar equipment to induce a voltage in the "open sesame" circuit, if you know what you're doing. Everything is a tradeoff.

Sorry for interrupting this discussion

I have a question related to locks but not related to safes. I have a lock with a key that does not go IN the lock. The key is a piece of rectangular metal. When I need to open the lock, I just use the key to TOUCH the lock from the outside ( on a spcific side) and the lock opens.

It has been with me for years and years now. I use it for a shed under the blazing sun, dust and rain, and hasn't failed so far

Does anyone know what it is and how it works ???

Thanks

Sounds like a magnetically keyed lock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_keyed_lock

Not too many theives have one of these machines just laying around. Buying would probably cost them more than they'd get from any heist. And they aren't exactly "portable" in the sense of "throw one in your car and carry it inside". At least not the medical ones.

Besides, do X-Rays really penetrate metal all that well? I would expect most low power X-Rays to be blocked by the steel in the door of a safe. Maybe you might be able to see something if you cranked the power up high enough. But then, the thief would have just fried their gonads in that endeavor.

Just doesn't seem terribly feasible for your garden variety thief to go lugging an X-Ray machine around to their home breakins. Not really feasible for a high end thief either.

For the garden variety thief, no. But as I said, he was talking about the locks used in government and high security facilities. As in, James Bond level espionage.

The good thing about mechanical locks is they've been around for a hundred years, so they have a proven track record.

The bad thing about mechanical locks is they've been around for a hundred years, so they also have well known weaknesses.

I doubt any thief is lugging around x-ray equipment, but there are many other ways getting into the safe. They have auto-dialers on the market that can do a brute force attack in a matter of hours. The smart autodialers can reduce the time it takes from hours to minutes. The actual concept of making one isn't that difficult, they've been made by college students, and I've even read of a simple one made from LEGO's mindstorms.

Now the chances of running into that level of sophistication is pretty low, maybe. If you're unfortunate like this person , and someone knows what you have, then a few thousand dollars might not seem like much for potential payoff of millions.

However, regarding the switch to electronic, I think one of the main reasons was more for convenience, not so much the added security. It's a lot easier to teach people to punch a keypad than dial a combination lock, it's easier to change combinations, and less maintenance too.

Regardless, I don't think the locks are the weak point of any safe, just as the locks aren't the weakest link in a house. It's a good discussion, but not one that I think people need to really worry too much about.