Non Motorized BOV/Transportation

OK,I'll get the thread started.

Im kind of interested in dog powered transpo,not so much BOV really.

We have a Husky mutt and GSD,the Husky can pull and I guess the GSD wouldnt mind riding too much,LOL.

One thing I dont care for on a lot of dog pull things are the low weight IMO of only 100 lbs.

Anyhow,heres a sled for street pulls weve sorta looked at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhZ7JaISmJ0&feature=related

I like these....
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http://www.triketrek11.com/about-velomobiles.html
You're Riding a What?
A velomobile is essentially a bike in a bubble. Most velomobiles consist of a recumbent tricycle enclosed in an aerodynamic fairing or "shell," as some people refer to it as. This shell is usually made from fiberglass or other composites. The fiberglass shell offers aerodynamic advantage over upright bicycles and recumbent bicycles as well as offering protection from the elements and collisions.

This aerodynamic advantage allows one to greatly exceed the limits of a normal bicycle in terms of speed, which is why an average speed throughout the day of about 16-20 mph would be easy for the average person. A strong cyclist can raise that number even higher. Many velomobiles' designs allow them to achieve speeds in excess of 40mph!

Velomobiles are virtually non-existent in the United States. They are used primarily in Europe - but even there, they are rare and attract a lot of attention.

For additional information on velomobiles, click here.


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142 Velomobiles.....love it at 4:44 on vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21rf4mRYXkY&feature=related

Then there are electric/manual powered bikes of all kinds of variations.One guys homebuilt........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkuj46N_lk8

Recumbent 3 wheeled bicycle with full suspension, rear hub electric motor, lithium ion battery pack and full shell velomobile. Sits high like car and can go up to and more than 65 miles per hour or 85 kilometers per hour.
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Now he talks about powering it down to 200 watts....if you had 2 of these foldable 136 watt solar panels from unisolar (craigslist is your friend) If you got 5 hours of sun a day while parked you could drive it 5 hours at night,now not sure what 200 watts will do on the thing,but it will do something for sure....how cool is that????

Or even pack a couple of these for your electric assisted bicycle?

They are PVL-136... 18 ft long. 15½ in wide. 0.16 in thick. 17 lbs.

I think something like this game hauling cart has been mentioned before.... but just in case ...there is some very interesting background on the Mormon hand carts from the 1850's, their construction (especiall the extremely tall wheel size so that the yoke was a straight pull) and problems

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/largeImagePopup.jsp?productId=1206646&cImage=s7_420295_999_01

Im electro-amish,I cant see going back to the stone age if I can avoid it hence my love of all things solar.

In ergonomics classes we have to take they say pushing is much better than pulling,FWIW,thought I'd mention that.

OK,bike trailers.Knew nothing about em so did some googling.

Apparently Burley is one of the better and they are all over craigslist for 1/2 to 1/3rd of new retail,an example...Apparently the 2 kid version is good for 100 lbs but I saw an ad where a 230 lb guy says his can support his weight.
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Burley D'Lite bike trailer - $200 (Tustin)
Date: 2012-08-13, 4:19PM PDT

Burley D'Lite bicycle trailer.

Holds 2 kids. Gently used.

Includes jogging attachments - extra wheel and push bar.

Retail over $400

For quick sale at less than half of retail.

Spuds,

If you have a Husky, check out http://dogscooter.com/

My Samoyed has been pulling since she was 18 months old (the age at which it is said their joints are sufficiently mature for such activity). She pulls me on a Blauwerk "Willy." We also do bikejoring, more and more as she's now a senior dog and having me on the bike takes most of the pulling stress off her.

She can still top out around 20 mph. Scooter weather is fast approaching (must be under 55 degrees for me to hook her up).

I get the tow lines and harnesses ("Urban Trails Harness") at Alpine Outfitters:

http://www.alpineoutfitters.net/secure/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=33

Dagny,super links!!

Thank You!

Can't find the info about the hand carts. I would love to read up on them - sounds interesting....

Nice looking gadget, but check the prices! A standard touring bicycle like the Surly Long Haul Trucker or a Novara Randonnee is a lot more cost effective. One of the virtues of a standard bicycle is its simplicity, ruggedness, and ease of repair.

Take a look here on Google Images.

A couple of years ago, there was PBS show on the Mormoms and although the focus of the show was more centered on the history and controversies of the church, it also featured segments on the journey that the people made across the states to Utah in the 1800's. The show is online at PBS and IIRC, there was some info and mention of the handcarts they used. Part I is here. Part II is here.

I recently purchased a BOB Ibex Trailer. It has been very good, but I swapped out the supplied tyre and inner tube for more durable expedition grade ones (Schwalbe Marathon etc). The 4130 cromoly steel frame has reasonable well engineered construction. It now works in conjunction with a rather retro looking Mountain bicycle built from a frame (A Columbus Nivachrome Silver soldered fillet design) I welded together back in the early 1990s (so no energy sucking suspension front or rear). It even has some retro Cinelli Spinaci Trekking Bar Extensions , which are basically triathlon bars for Mountain bike bars. Decent quality bicycle parts are now rather shockingly expensive (so are the Bicylces), so I decided to go retro where some bargains could be had (New Old Stock) to keep the costs down. Many of the retro bicycle parts are actually engineered more robustly than the modern gear.

http://www.bobgear.com/ibex

It allows for more carry weight than panniers/racks and will attach much more quickly to most mountain, road and cyclo cross bicycles. I just need to remove the rear wheel skewer and use the BOB one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND0SERkAAtw

The suspension swing arm for the trailer wheel works really quite well. It even has 4 water bottle mounts.

hikermor...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers

Thanks - fascinating read. how did we ever manage without Wikipedia?

When attending winter warfare training in Alaska while in the Army, we spent a lot of time pulling sleds. Of course these were for on the snow, but the concept with wheels works well. it would take just as much conditioning as riding a bike to get used to it. There are many options, and options are good. You just have to find one that suits your abilities and needs.

so are we trying to move ourselves, or stuff?

I will stick with the Bike as the best self mover- at least if leaving from home.

20.00 for a used mountain bike at goodwill- cheap, available parts, tough, mobile, and fast. Even if you are out of shape, as long as there is flat ground, you will move farther.

But....

I am at home 10 hours of a 24 hour day. I don't have room in my 12 yr old Subaru Forrester for a bike, even a folding one....

I have not settled on a model for my car, but I have experimented with a kick/razor scooter. My kids have several folding models that weigh under a pound. Even without practice I still went 5 MPH for about 1/2 a mile, and was not out of breath. I know I can do it with a small backpack.

I am intrigued by this site- http://www.cambiecycles.com/scooters.html adult sized scooters- under 200.00 Not sure if would fit in a car.

I think I would argue that moving people faster is in "most" cases going to take precedence over more stuff slower. Me plus bike plus 30 pound pack= 10+ MPH. that gets me from Omaha to Minneapolis in 4-5 days, assuming 8 hours travel. I am 43, and in average condition. Your solar powered scooter will pass me on day 1, but unless you can find a way to recharge, I will get there first. I suspect that the bike pulling the stroller would be harder, but still, the mechanical advantage is hard to overstate...

I am willing to be wrong- maybe your bug-out is only 5 miles away, and not stocked;

If you're serious about a bike, get a chromoly (chromium-molybdenum steel) frame. They will flex just a tad and provide a more comfortable ride. They also last longer. Notice that the Long Haul Trucker, Trek 520 and Novara Randonnee have chromoly frames.

Many of the mountain bikes I've seen lately have carbon fiber or aluminum frames and shock absorber suspensions; they're lighter but they don't flex which is one reason shocks became necessary. I have an old Scott mountain bike w/ chromoly frame, no need for a suspension fork- I like a simple bike. All I've done with this bike in 20 years is replace tires and chains. I took it in to REI for their bike maintenance class and replaced the tires, chain and other stuff and then learned to adjust everything -- good class.

One other thing you'll want on a bike is plenty of braze-ons (threaded eyelets et al) for attaching racks and whatever else you need to attach. This is another reason chromoly steel is the way to go. The Surley Long Haul Trucker has plenty.
$.02

Great subject

How about tires that are inflatble vs non-inflatable

In SHTF situations, a flat tire is bad news that makes a bad situation even worse. However I have read mixed views on non-inflatable tires like traction or comfort. Anyone has any experience ?

Chisel...with a small hand air pump and a couple of nylon rim tools ...you can change out a tube pretty quickly with quick release rims and cantilevered brakes, and be back on the road...for me it's easier to replace with a new tube than try to patch as the glue when once opened doesn't usually last....down here we have a weed called a sandspur, and the dried burrs can puncture a tube pretty easily... since changing to a heavy duty thorn proof tube, have not had a problem... there are kevlar belts available to protect the tube...

as AFLM commented, the articulated rear suspensions use up a lot of energy...if you run across a GT with a solid aluminum block in place of the elastic absorber, ask whoever stole it to return it...I miss it...

Will re-post my bike + trailer photo in this thread. Also, my Honda Element, teardrop trailer and the hitch-mounted bike rack:

As a touring cyclist I have some experience with hauling gear over distances. Personally, I prefer panniers for gear on a bike, but I do have a Burley trailer for my kids. Burley also makes a cargo version. They are probably the best of the two-wheeled trailers.

As our British friend mentioned, the BOB trailer is another touring favorite. Very well made but with only one wheel. This makes them track very well off road, but less experienced riders may have trouble with them.

There are even serious cargo trailers that some of my friends (who live car free) use to move refrigerators and the like with their bikes. Bikes at Work

Before you start hauling loads though, check your gearing. If you try to pull any weight with standard road bike gearing, you will destroy your knees at the first small incline. Proper gearing is important, even with relatively light loads. Low gears and high cadence will save your knees and your legs for the long haul.

I usually carry under 50 lbs of gear touring (plus 30ish for the bike), but I know people that carry 120+ while "expedition touring". One of my friends rode out LA during Katrina. He cruised past miles of cars sitting on the highway while pulling a trailer. Much faster than a car in that instance.

I have found that riding pulling my daughter to be pretty good training. She just turned 5 and with the trailer weighs about 50 lbs. You can definitely notice that on the hills. I have never pulled our dogs, but they are about the same weight and would probably work out about the same.

Unfortunately, it can be hard to find a bike shop that carries decent touring gear. There isn't much profit in it, so I can't blame them much. Without a good shop though, it can take a bit of trial and error to find the gear that works best for you and what you want to do with it.

Greg

How about ways to carry gear on the bike such as saddle bags? I am not an experienced bike camper, but I have seen some bike riders out there with a TON of gear loaded on their bikes.

I use panniers, front and rear. I prefer them to pulling a trailer but it is an individual choice. You need good racks to carry any weight at all. I like Tubus racks, but there are other good ones. Cromoly racks will be stronger than aluminum, and more durable.

For panniers, there are lots of options, but the best are probably Ortlieb and Arkel. The Ortliebs are waterproof and generally are one big compartment. The Arkels have one large compartment and lots of others for better organization. It's personal choice as far as what works for you.

I use Ortliebs and then use smaller camping bags inside for organization. I have ridden through lots of rain with them and everything stays dry (except me of course). You can check out some options at Adventure Cycling. They have tons of knowledge about touring equipment.

Adventure Cycling

Greg

Another option for waterproof panniers is to make your own out of square buckets with lids (ask for them at a local bakery, or use the ones kitty litter comes in). It's easy to find instructions online and they're easy to make with a few simple pieces of hardware. Much cheaper than buying fancy panniers. The only downside is that the lids can be a pain to get off.

Here's a link to the instructions I used to make a set a while back: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/index.html?doc_id=1841

Yup, Burley is good stuff. I am really happy with mine, and I have used it quite a lot for convenient local transport - small kids, groceries, gear for biking trips.

Bear in mind that overloading is a sure way to wear out quickly. It's a big difference between supporting some 230 lb guy for a very short time and doing the same when bumping and humping over all kinds of roads. The 100lb limit is probably a bit conservative, but bear in mind that wear and tear will be a function of not only load but also road conditions and how though you are riding.

Once you get the chance try bending and rattling those joints of your Burley trailer. Solid stuff, but clearly not made to sustain heavy loads for long periods of time.

QUICKLY! Did it one time when my employer moved across town. Used an underrated hand truck to move our fireproof filing cabinet. After about 100 yards or less, the axles destroyed the centers of the wheels.

The thing about trailers is that you are increasing complexity. KISS works. Like Greg Sackett, I prefer panniers for both commuting and touring. A fifty pound load is easy. If I had to bug out, I would start with more, hopefully with my 37mm reinforced tires installed.

Flat tires are the most common malfunction on a bike. If you haven't the tools and knowledge to deal with a flat, you should not consider a bicycle as an option for anything other than pleasure riding around the neighborhood.

Agreed, knowing how to fix a flat is critical as is carrying a spare tube, patch kit, pump and tire levers so you have the equipment to actually do it. It's really not hard, especially with the fatter tires as opposed to skinny road tires.

Dont imagine i would actually choose to overload one,but thought it amazing the thing didnt just crumple the minute he added his wt.My thought was,nice frame,should last if used as designed.

Dagny,I have to say your setup is just so Dang nice,all I would add is solar to the mix somehow.

Thanks folks for the education,fascinating to gather up such great knowledge,THANK YOU ALL!

one of the main rules for a Bug out Bike is not to skimp on tyres and tubes and even rim tapes. My Bug out Bicycle is using Schwalbe Marathon Dureme tyres and Slime self healing Tubes with Velox cloth Tapes.

http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/marathon_dureme

As well as carrying spare tubes, a folding bead tyre is recommended as well as part of the bicycle repair kit.

The last thing that you would want would be to have to call on Bicycle repair man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54CpPlCnM4I

Bicycle ( with trailer) boat. Jugging stroller. Hovercraft

Just saw this and thought to share it
Absolutely no affiliation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfKJ28mCE_0

a side note... USNERDOC has a very good variety of videos, naturally emphasis on medical

That thing is ridiculous,you would be a major target up here with that thing,first illegal hiding in forest you passed (WALKING!) would take you out for those supplies.

Thats so not gray man,thats technicolor dream coat man.

LOOK AT ME! Can you say target????
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LOVE this comment,remember him??
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Why does this remind me of Gunkids assault wheelbarrow? lol the good old days.

john762x39 6 days ago
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BRAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

Here is another take on a pedal powered hauler:

City Pedal Cargo Hauler

Just something different.