New Duracell Durlock batteries

Proctor and Gamble (makers of Duracell) have announced a new Duralock technology for their Duracell batteries. They now guarantee a 10 year shelf-life with reduced chance of leaking.

Duracell Duralock Announcement

Of course, lithium batteries still probably have a longer shelf-life, less chance of leaking and more power (however at a higher price).

That would be nice if true. I have become very frustrated with alkaline batteries leaking. I do my best to remove batteries from all of my gear before stowing away, but that makes me slightly less likely to use the gear.

While not so outdoor-related, it has frustrated me that I could not find a multimeters that does not require screws to be removed to access the batteries, so this week I put lithium AAA batteries in all of them to prevent them from being destroyed by leaking alkaline batteries.

Unfortunately, Lithium batteries can spontaneously combust, even primary Lithium batteries.

For emergency flashlights Alkaline batteries will yield a much longer run-time than Lithium *if* you can find an unregulated / direct-drive flashlight. It'll get pretty dim, but dim is better than black on a dark trail...

Battery manufacturers are allergic to datasheets or seemingly specs of any kind, but as I recall Alkaline and Lithium primary AA cells have about the same Ah rating, and that alkaline cells already have a shelf life over five years. But if Duralock improves the can against leakage that alone is good news.

This is news to me. References, please.

My experience with primary lithium batteries has been far superior to my use of alkalines. I no longer use alkalines in anything I remotely value. I understand that rechargeable lithium batteries can be finicky.

Primary lithium batteries can "vent with flame" and there are documented cases. However, I'm not aware of any time where it's happened with a single-cell device. It happens when there are two or more cells with significantly different levels of charge.

It's rare but documented with CR123A cells. Its possible but I would think very hard to induce with AA cells.

Lithium primaries also perform significantly better in high-drain devices.

One article on a Lithium AA explosion

Candlepowerforums has a forum area titled "Smoke and Fire, Hot Cells and Close Calls - The dangerous side of batteries"

The reports of primary combustion/explosion are much fewer than secondary failures but they do happen. Fortunately primary Lithium cells are mostly smaller than secondary so the results aren't so bad (Tadiran makes larger primary Lithium cells but they're rare by comparison and a different Lithium chemistry)

Because lithium C & D batteries are not available (at least readily available), any measurable improvement in the C & D alkalines is, in my view, a big deal.

As to AAAs & AAs, I'm fairly certain I'll be staying with the lithiums. However, as to the C & D's in my battery drawer (for several flashlights, radios & lanterns) --- I'll be looking to phase-in the Durlocks.

I'd be surprised if Eveready doesn't soon release an equivalent.

I wonder how well Eneloop batteries do against leakage?

The newer white Eneloops ought to retain 50% charge for five years which is not far from the rated shelf life of today's Alkaline primaries. Five years is long enough to consider for lifeboat / emergency / survival applications.

Eneloops might be an (expensive) way to avoid leakage damage to (even more expensive) devices without the hazard of Lithium cells. It might be worth considering in a high-humidity / outdoor environment.

PS. My main worry with Lithium cells is poorly-made counterfeits. There's a profit in using cheap cans or cutting corners on material purity, which matters a lot in Lithium cells.

PPS. Tenergy makes LSD (Low Self Discharge) C, D and 9v secondary cells. These might be applicable in kits that get refurbished annually, at least until Duralock is established.

Eneloops are not expensive, they are about the same price as a lithium primary.

Eneloops (and other rechargeables) do indeed have a high front end cost, although that can be lessened if you shop carefully. But do the math. You can recycle that Eneloops battery something like a thousand times. Including the cost of a quality recharging device, that works out to pennies per cycle. Basically, Eneloops don't leak.

Alkaline batteries are expensive, obsolete dinosaurs. You throw money away when you purchase them.

An important quote to note from that article:

"A compounding factor in this case was that the lithium battery in the radio was mixed with another type of battery. Mixing batteries is potentially dangerous."

Never, never, ever, ever (did i mention never) mix battery types.

Eneloops,best battery Ive ever used.Think my oldest are 4 years old,pretty close,and havent killed one yet.Not one has leaked either.

I have no financial interest in them,just a user.

HEHEHEHeEeEe!

iM USING THIS CHARGER...This is a steal at the price,on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RSOV50/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01


La Crosse Technology BC-700 Alpha Power Battery Charger
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==========================

Since I went NiMh eneloops,I cant fathom using anything else,esp an alkaline throw away.

Except maybe where only a lithium would fit,just how well do they work/available are lithium rechargeables for small batteries?Or are they mostly throw away big bucks? Asking,I dont know,would like an education from you users.

The NiMh like eneloops are super for recharge cycles.And holding a full capacity over many many recharge cycles.

In fact,most of my eneloops are capable of taking a higher ma/hr charge than they are listed at,fine fine quality IMO.

I have 28 of em in AA and AAA size,so obviously I think they are a real bargain for the life span they give.

I generally go with E's for normal use. I put primary lithiums in items that will be stashed away and used infrequently. I have had no problems at all with this scheme.

All batteries in every device need to be matched in chemistry, capacity and state of charge. If they are mismatched, alkalines are far more prone to leakage and lithiums can vent, possibly with flame. Devices that take only one battery don't have this problem, although alkalines will always leak eventually.

The easiest way is to put only new cells from the same package into a device, never reusing cells in devices that take more than one. I go a step further and use a pulse-load battery tester on CR123A batteries before installation.

Do they recharge?

Recharging primaries is highly disrecommended.

One quick observation about batteries: I have never had Duracell or Energiser leak in good quality high end equipment. Every case of leaking batteries has been low end bulk buy batteries, and cheap equipment - like children's toys.
I am, on the basis of experience and observation, quite convinced that there is some kind of electrochemical reaction occuring between the batteries and the contacts that causes the batteries to rupture.

Recently I placed the Duracell AAA batteries supplied with three brand new "hockey puck" lights, purchased from Costco and (foolishly) set aside. After two months, all three lights were the victims of battery leakage. Never again.

I suppose you can use alkalines in low cost equipment that is in regular, constant use, but any other mode is way too risky for my money. I now use Eneloops.

Eneloops are great. I have had Duracell and Energizer alkalines leak. Neither Eneloops nor lithium batteries leak.

It is possible for NiMH to leak, I had some Radio Shack and Rayovac NiMH leak but never an Eneloop or other Sanyo NiMH

Looks interesting. However I live in a solar, DC world. I notice it has a wall wart type power supply. Could you tell me what voltage (hopefully 12dc) the power supply is rated at?

Of course I could run an inverter, but I am trying to get rid of all the AC stuff I can. Especially items that will be on for long periods of time.

Thanks
Nomad

My high-end charger is a Maha/Powerex C9000, and its input is 12 VDC. I use it for specialized tasks like battery forming.

However, my everyday driver is the much-underrated Duracell CEF23DX4N mobile charger. I have three of them. A little slower than the Maha, but it does have individual charging channels and comes with a DC lighter cord. I find it does a very good job. And there's still stock around -- I see them at occasionally at Best Buy and Staples for $20.

Regarding alkalines:

Duracells and Energizers seem to leak for no good reason.

You may laugh, but I have much better luck using generic alkalines in occasional-use items. I buy AAs in 48-packs for about $9. Having gone through about four packs over the years, I think I had one leak (light switched on by accident) and one dud. That's it.

Looks interesting. However I live in a solar, DC world. I notice it has a wall wart type power supply. Could you tell me what voltage (hopefully 12dc) the power supply is rated at?
====================================
Nomad,the bc 700 is a fine unit,major bang for the buck... but unfortunately its a 3volt wall wart.

Dougs advice,the maha, gets excellent ratings too.Im sure from what folks say you will be MORE than happy with the maha.

Cool thing about both units is how they condition the batteries for maximum life and charging ability.

Oh,IIRC the Kirkland alkalines are Rayovacs,they make a good battery.My Uncle was a mucky muck there,says they are as good a battery as any,and he was a very honest man,told me of some garbage one of there subsidiaries made back in the day,junk shock absorbers that were filled with hype and advertising,nothing more.So when he said good batteries,I sure believed him.

I used Kirkland alkalines before the NiMh's and never had a problem,think they are a good deal.For alkalines.

Thanks,wasnt familiar with the term 'primaries',means one time only apparently.

The difference is that the electrochemical reaction in a primary cell Is not meant to be reversible. If you recharge a primary cell, it won't work as well the second time around and is more prone to leakage.

I run Eneloops and protected 18650s in frequently-used devices. Otherwise it's Energizer Lithiums or Titanium Innovations CR123A lithium primaries. The one place that I still use alkalines is in my old Maglite 3D flashlights with LED upgrades. They're not very bright compared to my newer flashlights but I can drop them from dizzying heights onto concrete and only add slightly to the character they've accumulated. I've fished them out of the sump pit more than once without any ill-effects.

Eneloops for the win. And if you have camera's, they make a new version with enhanced capacity, although, they are pretty expensive.

I've had some very bad luck with Energizer Rechargeables. If you don't use them for a long time, they will go completely dead and you can't get a regular charger to make them take a charge. I ended up throwing out about eight of them a few weeks ago.

Energizer is now making "eneloop" type of batteries (the kind that comes pre-charged in the pack, and hold their charge over a much longer period of time). I'm trying some of those out right now, but I suspect I'll find myself just sticking with Eneloops. They are pretty rock solid. Only complaint is that they don't make "real" D size versions of them, they are just AA batteries put into holders. They fit, but nowhere near the capacity of a real D cell battery.

I can't recall any batteries since '60s "9 Lives" batteries (the red ones) that leak as bad as modern Duracell alkalines. I would never leave them in something important.

Never had an Energizer alkaline leak, but then I use far less of them than Duracells because I find Energizers don't last as long. I do put Energizers in important stuff, like e.g. my GPS.

Some electronics are voltage sensitive, some are current sensitive. Eneloops for the current-sucking devices, alkalines (or even C-Zn) for the voltage sensitive ones.

Rechargeables in voltage sensitive devices is very frustrating, because after all you're starting out with equivalent to a "dead alkaline".

The "old" AA Eneloops were rated to hold ~ 80% of charge after one year, with a 2 Ah initial capacity. I don't remember the AAA specs.

There are two new AA Eneloops. The white ones still have a 2 AH capacity but are rated for 1500 recharge cycles and a 3 year at 80% rating. That's lifeboat or stored kit territory in my opinion.

The new dark AA Eneloops (Eneloop X?) have the same rating as the old Eneloop but a 2.5 Ah capacity.

It's worth noting that in my testing Eneloops almost always come very close to rated capacity (within 5%) or even exceed it. That's almost unique among NiMH batteries.


This feature is referred to as LSD (no, I didn't make that up!) or Low Self-Discharge.

LSD batteries require better materials, manufacturing purity, and electrodes. I suspect the can also has to be better to resist chemical attacks from the contents - you can't claim N years of shelf life if the can fails sooner than that.

Lithium calls have better cans too, mainly for liability/safety reasons.

I have read elsewhere that charged cells don't attack the can as quickly as discharged cells and that LSD cells are shipped charged to protect the can, although it may just be because they can do it (non-LSD NiMH would discharge before final purchase anyway so there was no point in the factory worrying about it pre-LSD)


Tenergy sells LSD true D, C and 9v cells, as well as AA and AAA. Their LSD D cell is rated at 10 Ah.

I've never met an alkaline battery that didn't leak on something important. Duracell is by far the worst, but now Energizer has jumped to the lead. I'm on the bandwagon with everyone else, Lithium primaries for the stuff that sits long term and not used much and Eneloops for the rest. Neither battery chemistry has ever leaked on me.

Make a note right now of a stored radio, flashlight, or important electronic device that you have not used this year. If it has alkalines in it, pull them out. If you don't, you are simply asking for trouble. You might get lucky, but the alkaline Russian roulette will eventually catch up with you.

Ditto,I used em early on,they sure arent eneloops and I have none left.

Great thread folks,thanks for all the great info,really appreciated!

Celler,is that a black GSD in avatar?

By "true D" cells, I don't think you mean I could place four of the Tenergy Lithium Thionyl Chloride D 3.6V's in my unmodified/standard 4D CCRadio2 or MagLite and would be good to go. To be clear, if you couldn't or shouldn’t, then they’re not equivalent or true.

Here's some footage of an open air lithium battery burn-off/explosion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS2hGoJVmlA .

Tenergy sells 1.2v LSD NiMH D cells with a rated capacity of 10 Ah. They also sell LSD NiMH C and 9v cells that work at ordinary NiMH voltages.

By "true" I meant that the D cell wasn't made of AA cells in parallel internally.

I don't know anything about their Lithium cells.

I have the Maha unit. It now has one bay that is bad (several years of hard service) so I am looking for a replacement. 3v is not bad. I can make a DC power supply to feed it. Does it give the complete spec? as in 3vdc at 3a or something like that?

The Maha unit has a rather large back lit display that becomes a bother at night. We live much of the year in a pick-up camper and the Maha is too bright for even a night light. I end up putting something over the display. However I would like to have it mounted on a wall, so now covering the display becomes a "project".

Nomad

I stand corrected.

Yes, that is Raven the black GSD. Ninety-five pounds of treat-begging, trespasser-chasing, any creak in the night amplifying deterrence. Love him.

I have the Maha unit. It now has one bay that is bad (several years of hard service) so I am looking for a replacement. 3v is not bad. I can make a DC power supply to feed it. Does it give the complete spec? as in 3vdc at 3a or something like that?

The Maha unit has a rather large back lit display
==============================
Ah,then this is perfect for you as the display isnt lit.

Output 3volt,2.8 amp per wall wart.

What the heck,its really hard to go wrong for 28 bucks for a smart charger.

If you get one make sure its the BC700,the BC900 had serious overheating problems.

One 'glitch',a REALLY dead battery wont charge,it wont recognize it.But if you stick it on a cheapo dumb charger for one minute its enough for the BC700 to see it and away you go.
==============================
Celler,gotta love those GSD's for sure.Black GSD,BTDT!
==============================
Grady,thanks for the youtube vid,thats some lithium fire,wow!!!!!

I was in a battery factory last year that had a truck load of Li batteries spontaneously combust in the parking lot one night. Interesting story. The truck was just parked there overnight. The fie department had a heck of a time putting it out.

I think "low end bulk buy batteries" is the key here, not "cheap equipment". A battery can't tell what kind of device it's in. And the difference between, say, a steel contact and a gold plated one has to do with the resistance (electrical, not mechanical) that the battery must push against. High resistance contacts will deliver slightly less voltage to the device being powered. And will eat up a small amount of battery capacity and waste that as heat (but it's an infinitesimally small amount). That may affect efficiency of battery utilization, but the battery really doesn't care about that and won't leak just to spite you for not having gold plated contacts. Pairing dissimilar metals together can (but not always) have negative consequences (corrosion, etc.) but it's not like good equipment is made out of the same metals that batteries are (similar) and cheap equipment is made out of different metals (dissimilar).