If The Forum Loses Credibility?

I was just wondering how we would react/Handle the Loss of the forums Credibility if Someone came in and Lied In large bloated ways that went unoticed. Ive seen forums die due to many reasons but non of these forums relied on Credibility such as this forum. While Yes this is just a place to chat and pass along ideas in hopes to help others prepare credibility is the only thing that makes people listen to a forum that they discover during a Internet search.

I assume we'd all find other forums. Like we did when chat services died. I used to chat on a cellular lounge and when it closed I got on with my life then found a chatroom I liked. Then joined ETS. LIfe goes on. While the forum closing would be a loss it is not the the beginning and the end. We'd meet up in other place and exchange ideas.

How do you figure ? This is a good forum, don't get me wrong but there are other good ones out there as well. The information on this forum is the same as any other, use at your own risk because you have no idea about who is posting on the other end and where they may have gotten their info from. Based on that, no forum has any real "creditability" per se.

I enjoy chatting about outdoor things here same as everyone, I don't mind asking about someones personal experience using a partcular bit of gear and so forth, but at the end of the day you are all a bunch of faceless, nameless internet personalities. I am sure every forum has it's share of posers pretending to be this and that through the precieved anonymity of the internet. When it comes to life or death matters I think you would be a fool to take anything as gospel that comes from any forum, period. If I want to know someones thoughts on the newest stove, sure, I may check the forums to see what folks are saying. If I want to know how to avoid a bear attack I am going to find a more reliable source of information than this. No offence to anyone here, I am sure a lot of you are very well travelled indeed. There's just no way to know.

If creditability is such a big concern on this forum or any other for that matter, people would be required to post as themselves (no made up fantasy names)

Just an opinion from one of the newer people here, for what it's worth. Is this forum a good place to hang out and chat? sure is. Would I reccommend anyone new to the whole prepardness lifestyle to go to any forum for proven, reliable wisdom......eh, no. I would tell them to read a book from someone with a proven reputation.

Stephen, This is a Forum where we infact Talk about Life and Death situations Daily. That Is usually a point to survival Forums. If Someone came in and yelled out "throwing rocks at a bears Cub is the best solution to bear attacks" here And everyone agreed Im pretty sure the traffic would drop from new comers.

Proven Reputation is Half the battle for anything, Its the Community that go out and tests life that people are looking too these days with the advent of the internet. How many People Read Daves, Les's, Bears, Codys, so on so forth books? Most of Us. How many people come running straight to the internet to confirm these books and ideas by asking others? More people then the amount that actually read the books.

Yes indeed, people on this forum talk about life and death situations daily. Unfortunately just talking about something dosent make it creditable information. Most of what is discussed probably is directly regurgitated from these books with no experience to back it up. When Les Stroud writes about encountering a bear in the wild I tend to pay heed as I am sure it happened to him a time or two. When someone on a forum named "frisket" talks about it I take it with a grain of salt. I don't know who you are, where you are from, even if you are a man or a woman.

I am not saying you would give bad information, I am simply saying there is no way to tell where you get that info from.

As such, I believe forums in general are simply that, forums.(places to chat about things)

I totally agree that proven reputation is half the battle for anything. It's the "proven" part that worries me when dealing with such places.

This is why, as much as possible, I present relevant information about whom I am so readers will have an idea of where the information I am presenting is coming from.

Jeanette Isabelle

+1 for Jeanette's comment.

Wise words.

To me this forum is generally credible because of the fairly restrained level of discourse and the civil tone of the posts - unlike some others.

This is funny ( for me) because in my corner of the world , we had two rival forums and one died BECAUSE OF STRICT RULES cocerning credibility. One role , for example, that members post with their REAL names and authenticate their claims. Or else find another forum.

Members from the other forum joined to laugh at it and promise it will close down " cause 'everyone' wants to feel 'free' to say their thing without someone breathing over their necks".

I was a member of the good forum and sadly saw it close down. The 'other' one is still going strong , but full of censored.

I suppose it's because I am new to the whole forum thing, but I hadn't realised there were rival forums. That's kinda interesting. Was the good forum the one the made you post your real name or was it the other one?

I guess over time people who have been on a forum a long time with each other develop a certain repore. I can't wrap my head around why you wouldn't post under your own name though actually. Maybe it's just me, but when someone posts under their own name I feel that persons information is a little more trustworthy for some reason.(I have a feeling I am about to get rubbed through the coals for that comment) but it's true. A forum is still a forum and I believe you use what your read at your own risk, but if someone posts advice as who they really are as opposed to hiding in the shadows it gives theam a tad more personal credibility IMO. A +1 to put it in forum jargon.

How does one authenticate their claim?

I was named after the French song “Un Flambeau, Jeannette, Isabelle.” I have no intent on proving it.

Jeanette Isabelle

ETS has a lot of knowledgeable and experienced folks who are not afraid to speak their mind. In general, I think it's pretty hard to get much by us, collectively.

By "credibility" if you're just talking about misrepresenting yourself, I don't know if that matters that much to me as much as the quality of what you're posting. Facts are facts and facts can be checked from other sources. As for personal histories, stories or opinions, I always take those with a grain of salt. "You were raised in a Shaolin temple after your missionary parents were killed by heroin smugglers in China and now you're a Navy Seal, you say? I see..." And if it turns out that you weren't a Shaolin monk? <shrug> I don't know if that would bother me much.

Well, I think I would be shocked if a stand up guy that I've enjoyed reading and interacting with for a long time turns out to be a child molestor or something.

As for how we would react, I think the person could be banned by the mods or else I'd just start ignoring the person. Someone who is going to lie like that gets their jollies from observing the reaction of others. If no one responds to their lies, they get frustrated and leave to find greener pastures elsewhere.

Of course, you also have the people who get their jollies viciously stomping on people that they perceive are trolls, liars, etc. and those people can be just as damaging as the original offender in these drawn out flame wars. But we've kept those to a minimum here.

I do not believe that is true. However, I can see where you are coming from.

Jeanette Isabelle

Stephen,

Just because your name is "Bear" and you play a survival expert on TV, it doesn't mean that your book is full of wisdom (not to knock Mr. Grylls, just an example). Several people here have impressive credentials (feel free to look some of them up). We also have listened to them for a while and have something better than a script to judge them by.

The reputation of a forum has little to do with the forum itself (except how it is run & this is one of the best for that). It has to do with the members, their posts and the quality of what they have to say. There are several members here that (given no other information) I would trust my life to. Would I prefer to compare that information to other sources? Of course, but if those other sources differed I not trust them until they were as well proven.

Respectfully,

Jerry (my real name)

Yes Jerry, several people on the forum do have impressive creditiatials, no one was disputing that. Those same people most likely have things published outside the forum as well and that would add to their creditibility considerably.

I found this forum completely by accident. I decided to post here because I liked the format more than the other ones. I personally don't think the information on this forum is better than survival topics, survivalist boards, survival bill, hoods woods, or the other 50 forums out there. In fact, I have seen that some of the same people who post here post on several of those as well.

I like the place so far, but a talk forum is a talk forum. If this place has more credibility than the next I believe it may be due to the reputation of the owner of the forum, and not the content of the forum.

Just my thoughts, respectfully

Stephen

While I do think this forum is unique in many appreciable ways, it's hardly the only game in town. We'd migrate to other forums. They're out there, different cultures, definitely more raucous, but still interesting and worthwhile.

As to a subtle hijacking, I say good luck. The longer I spend on this forum, the more I realize (and am humbled by) the depth of skill and experience that is to be found here.

The other key point is that we are all guests here, and we all know it. If this forum gets out of hand and becomes a liability to the Foundation, well, Mr. Ritter carries a titanium briefcase with the launch codes inside. This forum has been at five seconds to midnight more than once. We only get to keep it if we keep it civil. The sight of the gallows focuses the mind wonderfully.

Pretty much agree w/ all that's said. This forum tends to be relatively civil. Even our arguments usually tend to be straightened out a page or 2 later - usually a result of misspeaks or other errors in communication, as opposed to outright hostility or deceit.

While I tend to agree that most of us are just handles on the computer, I notice most of us put pictures up. I assume we're posting our real faces. That says a little about honesty, I guess.

Like some others, I think that this forum, as opposed to many others, has a lot of respect. There's at least a dozen folks on here I wouldn't mind having dinner with, going camping with, etc. No pen pals, though! I'm waiting for the first big ETS wedding (and, no, I'm not hitting on Jeanette, or Dagny, or any of the other gals, so don't think it's going to be me!)

And, btw, we did have a pretty big credibility hit last year (or was it 2 years ago?). One of the mods might have over-exaggerated some claims. Not really sure the specifics - by the time I was aware of it, things had started to blow over. And yet, it was handled pretty professionally and life moved on. I don't know if that person was ever proven to be an imposter, an over-exaggerator, or actually was bona fide, FYI.

I always enjoy reading through ETS because it tends to be a little more focused in its discussions (little talk of TEOTWAWKI, Zeds, and politics; more how do I go about surviving a night while lost in the woods). There are lots of places for the former but ETS is fairly unique in its focus on the latter.

As a result, it seems to attract a lot of folks with special skills in the field and sober, thoughtful discussion. It's cool to see folks with practical, real life medical, outdoors, piloting, military, SAR, etc. experience on this board and I probably learn more here per topic than most anywhere else.

This forum is often more than just a forum,It is a Think Tank!There are folks from every walk of life,& from Every Continent,less Antarctica,that post their Q&A,Experience,Knowledge,&General Interest that pertains to being Equipped To Survive or at least in the vicinity thereof.Everyone has a valid reason for Not posting their names,&I give respect to that,Afterall this is all part of the info highway,things can get misconstrued or exploited or worse!I readily admit,I, personally have given my share of poor quality & distasteful humor at times,but I also have apologized for such as well!99% of the folks here act within this realm,That's what makes this place,So Enjoyable & Credible!I have used & trusted a Whole lot of info from this site,Thank You to Doug Ritter,for creating this place! CHEERS!

First I want to apologize for using the censored word. Although I don't use them often, but I wander between forums with varying rules and in the heat of the moment such a censored word may slip into a post. Sorry about that.




Stephen, in addition to the case in my corner of the owrld, I have seen it happen two times, one in the US and one either in the US or the UK. A big issue divides the forum members, and that results in one group leaving and establishing their own forum. They do become rival forums and without roles and moderators , some posts discussing the other forum ( or its founder ) may cross ethical borders.

Answering your question, yes, The good forum was the one asking for real names, but that was not THE reason it was good . LOL . The reason is that it insisted on staying above certain standards. Posting with real names was one of the ways to limit people from wandering too far on some touchy issues. Since I was in the "wiser" camp, I had no problem with that. The "other" camp didn't like it and went to the other forum.

Sadly, that situation proved that wiser people
are too few and far in between. The wiser forum shrank down until their was only a handful of members left. And it died a slow death. Then it closed.

You know,

After seeing you responses I am starting to undersatand what you mean by creditability. You are a tight knit group as as a new guy I really apologise if I come across as an A *****l, it;s not my intent.

It's 11:50 hrs and I am having an ealy Canada day where I am. For all the Canadian members of ETS I bid you an earl "happy Canada day"

For everyone else I say I am very happy you have welcomed me into your online community. I have come across as being an arse And I would apologise. I am new to this whole internet thing, so please bear wiyh me.

Chisel,

If you want to PM me and curse me out with "the censored word" then give er man i can respect that. I guess I asked for it.....

This is it for me man. 30 sompthing posts so I guess I should just sit back and listen rather than flap my gums eh? One thing you guys should do is give a thanks to your mods.

I have alread been warned by them. They are a serious bunch and have a lot of respect for this place.

My name is really stephen and the sexy guy in the pic really is me. Should I say anything (else) stupid in the future let me know and if I am wrong i don't mind saying so.

Respectifully. Stephen

Great thread! There's already been a lot of ground covered so I'll just add one personal observation.

One of the things I love about this forum is the respect we show to each other, newcomers included. We don't think so highly of ourselves that we discourage people from contributing. A couple of other forums that I have visited make it difficult for newcomers, by complaining about new threads or questions about previously discussed topics, like there will never be anything new under the sun. It,s almost like they're saying "If you haven't found your answer here yet, you must not be studying us very hard.". Those same forums tend to also give people grief for reviving an old thread, or for using terminology in a way that doesn't jive with the forum view. We're not like that here, for the most part and I really appreciate that.

Jacqui from Ontario, Canada, eh!
Happy Canada Day my fellow Canuckians!

We've had our share of liars, fantasists, trolls and just plain nutters.
I think the moderators stamp on them early now as they are rarer and rarer. We learn to ignore them.
And the simple fact is; who but an idiot is going to judge what someone says based purely on their claimed background:
'So after you were thrown out of NASA for being too clever and the spetznaz for being too tough, you decided to come here and give advice? Now you assure me I don't need a compass in the hills? Thanks I'll pass on that one.'
I recently got banned from Massad Ayoobs blog after asking him to produce some evidence for his absurd distortions of reality. Even other regular people on the blog pointed out I never said the things he claimed he was banning me for.
(Always a mistake to meet ones heroes).
Guess as people say it's down to us having good moderators without an axe to grind.

qjs

Hey, Stephen. Nice post. I think you're getting the hang of this place.

Happy Dominion Day to my fellow Canucks!

Cheers,
Doug (real name)

Thanks Doug ,

And here's a good piece of advice folks. Don't drink and post...


Bleauugghhh.........
Anyone know a survival cure for a massive hangover?

[quote=StephenI can't wrap my head around why you wouldn't post under your own name though actually. Maybe it's just me, but when someone posts under their own name I feel that persons information is a little more trustworthy for some reason [/quote]

To explain my point of view on this comment - If I had a years worth of supplies and a $1,500 automatic pistol in my nightstand and in my truck, I might, as Byrd_Huntr tell you that as part of a discussion on emergency readiness. I certainly would not tell you that under my full real name so anyone with Internet access could find me, and attempt to rob me.

As with your car mechanic, it's up to you to have enough background knowledge to avoid a ripoff. It's the same with a forum...read the posts to determine if what they say is credible based on your background knowledge. I think you will find the differences are based on regional and experience, not willful deception. We read, ponder, and then discuss to share different points of view on the subject information.

Your knowing my full name does not prove I am credible, but it would seriously suppress what I would be willing to share.

Byrd_Huntr...a fake but descriptive pseudonym

If I'm going to make something that might be life-or-death decision, then I'm not going to base that off a single point of reference. Be that an online forum, a book, or whatever. I gather information from multiple places and I COME TO MY OWN DECISION. I alone am responsible for what I choose to do.

I love reading posts about the latest stove review, or "how do you like this compass?", or "what do you have in your BOB?", etc. Tons of good info and experience there.

But for threads like "What is the best way to defend against bears?", well, that is more of a discussion that might be fun to participate in than a source of the end-all of information. I doubt ANYBODY here has had enough personal experience fending off bears to have "the answer". Most of us have seen a bear once or twice - in a zoo. My wife and I ran into a pair of 3 year old grizzly twins in Yellowstone decades ago, my wife took their picture and we left. But nobody is going to believe that a Nikon is the best bear defense based on my personal experience. So just because somebody recommends "give up your gun and get bear spray" or "give up your bear spray and get a gun" does not mean that I'm going to run right out and follow that advice. That's just one persons opinion, valuable for what it is - an opinion, but not the final word of discussion on the topic.

FWIW, I think that the vast majority of what is said on this forum comes from the heart with good intentions, and is a wealth of very good information. And I can read the words that are written and MAKE MY OWN DETERMINATION that the person writing them is an intelligent human being with good intentions who would probably make a very good friend to socialize with if we lived closer together.

If you want a cold, hard, "Just the facts" Joe Friday presentation, go buy a book instead. And hope that you bought a credible book with good information, and not one simply designed to get the author fame or money.

If it makes anybody feel any better, Doug and Blast know my name and address. They asked for it when I came on board as a moderator.

Posting under a pseudonym gives me some freedom that I wouldn't have otherwise. I would not, for example, feel comfortable posting publicly about the timing of a vacation, the guns I own, or a few other things.

Stephen, FWIW, I don't think your OP came off as being a jerk or anything. You have a legit question, and one that frankly hasn't come up here too often (that I can recall). So kudos for at least starting a new topic!

Chaosmagnet, when Blast and Doug wanted your name, did you get theirs too? Anything end up missing a week later?

There's nothing a forum can do--no rules or requirements or anything imposed on members externally--that is going to ensure "credibility," let alone ensuring a loftier goal like having a forum that is good or helpful.

I think that credibility in the eyes of a reader ultimately comes from the quality of the posts and that requires some care, some thoughtfulness, and oftentimes, even some self-restraint, on the part of posters. I think we've been fortunate that we have a membership that exhibit these traits. The regulars posting at any given time has changed over the years but I think we've maintained a pretty high level of quality, civility, and credibility through that whole time.

Doug's name, as far as I can tell (and it's not like I've hired a private investigator or anything) is actually Doug Ritter. Blast was able to show me a report from the Fire Department about something he blew up and burned down, so it looked pretty legit to me.

The only thing that's gone missing since is a bunch of my time .

IMHO:
This is an enjoyable group, but it is not the beginning of a sacred document that will influence civilization for a millenium. It is an internet forum, and if it becomes troublesome in any fashion, as it has a couple of times in the past, DR may choose to shut it down. Which is a reasonable decision: we are guests on DR's website, and should try to avoid embarassing him, and anticipate consequences if we do so.
Regarding credibility, I most appreciate those posts that offer references and footnotes, along with opinions and anecdotes.

And Blast may actually be a 14 year old girl in dubuque, and I may be cop in illinois trolling for internet abusers. It doesn't matter: If the advice is good, it doesn't matter who offers it. I recently read biographies of several of my favorite philosophers: all of them wrote influential and powerful treatises: none of them were good company. YMMV.

I was going to make this point. Because this is comparatively a smaller tighter group of communicators in only four categories, it is pretty easy to sort out the guys hawking their own product, trolling or just instigating.

Without opening up raw wounds, we have also had long standing commentators called out for their own stories and asked to prove some their facts. While new forum user never really need to know that, we try to be as credible as possible by policing ourselves and staying with the narrow frame work of real prepping situations. Very, very rarely will you see the word Zombie or Post Apocalyptic stuff. The mall ninja's and airsofters catalog SEAL's tend to congregate around the doughnuts on the other side of the building.

This discussion is EXACTLY why I keep returning to this forum. A wealth of useful information from lots of different and (in my opinion anyway) reputable sources. Is that the end of my research? By all means no. DO I automatically embrace other people's ideas or suggestions? Of course not. More research, testing, and eventually making my own opinions and decisions follow.

As far as credibility goes, well, let's just say this IS my real name, and I make no pretense about who I am or my level of expertise. I am a lowly insurance agent (yes, a google search will confirm this) who happens to like the outdoors, and loves the fact that my son is involved in scouting and that I am able to be amongst the few scout leaders in his pack (in fact, I will be the cubmaster for the next year). So I come here asking for advice, and occasionally (with plenty of disclaimers) offer some of my own from what I have learned or experienced through the years. I am always taking notes and always learning about new technology, new techniques, and new gear that is available.

And as far as voicing opinions, I think we have ALL been guilty of that a time or two.

I completely agree. I work in a food distribution center which gives me some insight in the food industry.

When we experienced a peanut shortage last year, I knew about it before John Q. Consumer.

Jeanette Isabelle

+1 on that Izzy. I consider my insurance agents to be trusted advisors. IMO, insurance is more likely to be tapped in an emergency than the fire kits we keep in our Bug Out bags.

We all have our specialties. I guess if you need insight into how badly corporate telephone systems are failing around the globe, you could come to me for that.

At the local Survivor Day here in VA, one of the presenters was an insurance agent and gave good, solid advice for homeowners & renters. In turn, he learned alot about using modern technology and electronic storage. It was a productive session.

Hmmm, perhaps I could have phrased that better. I did not mean to imply that my profession was lowly ... just that I am no expert on survival or anything else I usually comment on in the forum. That said, I have learned a LOT by reading, taking notes and experimenting. My family and I have come a long way in terms of preparedness, and hope to become even more prepared in the days/months/years to come so when we have a real emergency, we'll be ready.

Stephen, I welcome you and your posts.
I do not believe that you came across as an Anthill.
And. believe that you have given me a very useful new epithet, tho I, too, strive not to be an Anthill.

thanks Mike,

I am new to forums. I usually prefer to be outside "doing" rather that typing but I have been upgraded (or downgraded depending how you look at it) to a desk job.

My problem is that as soon as I type something out it usually dosen't come across as intended. My phone rings twice a day in regards to emails I have written to various people at work.

I type something. Read it later and go......"ooooooouuu, that didn't sound right"

Anthill.....yeah. That's a better way of putting it.

A few years ago I joined the Virgin mobile Lounge. That was the carrier of the cells we were issued, mainly because they were cheap (I damaged a lot of them) and fairly reliable. The lounge was riddled with pedophiles and really stupid kids who fell for thier lines of BS. Despite hundred of calls and emails to VM nothing was ever done about them. Next we tried contacting federal authorities. Nothing. So we began to police the various lounges ourselves. First we outed the peds. Then we warned the kids when the peds were after them. Finally we had to take stronger measures. Then VM got the contract under Assurance Wireless to supply service to anyone on welfare or was disabled etc. Free phone and free minutes every month. The peds came out of the woodwork. It was like trying to turn back the sea with a dixie cup. Finally they had so many complaints they had to close the place down. There was no security at all there and we assume that someone finally used the word lawsuit.
Here there a few good mods, they stay on top of things and are approachable. And some I truly wonder about.
As for myself, yes I use snake doctor as my handle. It was the second name I was given and long before that TV series came out. There are many here who would recognize my first name and quite simply I don't want the hassle of being known and pestered. I come here to learn, share and mess with Chaosmagnet.
While Stephen is correct I think he could have stated his opinions in a more subtle way.
Just ol snakes humble opinion. You're certainly entitled to yours. Thanks for bearing with me.

Um Izzy? Who are you calling nice? Just because it says to be nice in my qoute doesn't mean that I am indeed nice. I'm mean I tell you. Mean, evil and rotten to the core.

Oh Joey? Ayoob? Really? Sorry, but I lost all respect for the man when I learned he had a breakfast consisting of a a pack of twinkies and a six pack before teaching firearms safety and taking suspects in buildings.
He can be funny though.

Man...If I had a dollar for every time I heard that one.

Thats why I work for the government, no civilian employer could deal with my lack of social skills.

I'm still very impressed by his writings. Seems wise and full of common sense.
His blog is a laughable distortion of reality though. POLITICAL OPINION. When I called him out on this he invented insults I'd never posted to ban me. You can see for yourself the posts are still there.
And no I'm not starting a discussion on POLITICAL OPINION here.

>Oh Joey? Ayoob? Really? Sorry, but I lost all respect for the >man when I learned he had a breakfast consisting of a a pack of >twinkies and a six pack before teaching firearms safety and >taking suspects in buildings.
>He can be funny though.
_________________________

Lmao @ Stephen. I thought the Canadians were sickeningly polite dude?

I am coming in late to this thread as I have been out and about enjoying some spectacular mountain scenery this past week!

After reading through most, but not all posts on this topic, I can agree that on this forum, the info posted is only as good as you interpet it. Like any other forum, there is very good info here. And on the flip side, IMHO, there has been some very bad info posted here and it is ultimately up to the reader to interpet and judge whether that info and person is trustworthy enough to believe...and to also pursue alternative research on the subject.

In the almost 3 years I have been a member here, there are several people here whom I would not quibble about talking to in person in real life around a campfire...regardless of them using or not using their real name. As the recent Dave Canterbury thread clearly demonstrates, using a real name on TV or the internet does not make you credible when you mislead people about your supposed experience.

All in all, this a good forum and a tip of the hat goes to the MOD's for keeping a tight handle on things when needed..

Hey, come on now. Thinking ALL Canadians are sickeningly polite is like saying ALL Americans are loud, arrogant, obnoxious......

Oh Yeah...


I can't really finish that sentence.

If anyone has doubts as to this site's credibility, PLEASE see the thread: First Aid: Neosporin/Polysporin.

Hey, don't knock the Tim Horton's. When I was deployed that place was making bank! Their employees were all Canadian volunteers that came to AFG for a year (several were on 2nd or 3rd times over). The 30-60 minute wait was worth it, when you had a craving for something 'real.'

Anyway, ever since I saw them over there, I have a lot more respect for them. I'd never even heard of them either until 2008 when I moved to Detroit, and didn't try them until '09. My bad.

lmao! calm down canuck. Ever see due south? Hey I didn't pick on your SARS and mad cow disease when it was rampant. Do you have ANY idea how hard that was for me? My canadian friends in the chat kept waiting for me to unleash the joke/
I don't know if i'm arrogant. but I am obnoxious when I choose to be. As for loud i'm very soft spoken.