Stoves : Sterno .vs. alcohol

I am looking for a stove for a "cache" in an office building. Just in case I am stuck there ( like heavy rain and power lost). My first thought was one or two sterno cans, but I am now not sure enough.

A U-tube video showed that sterno flame is not as strong as an alcohol stove ( empty Sterno can filled with perlite and alcohol ) ... It was some time ago that I noticed this , that backpackers ..etc. used alcohol stoves ( using HEET or denatured alcohol as fuel ) but very few used Sterno. Cost maybe a factor , but seems more than that. Many times I read that Sterno is for "warming" food , not for cooking.

So, I don't know really. Should I depend on Sterno, or is it a different breed from ALCOHOL stoves.

If I have to leave Sterno for alcohol stove... I have two alternatives. Either a supercat stove ( seems like the easiest to make utilizing a tuna can ) , or do the (perlite and alcohol stove by using sand instead. I would take an empty sterno can, half-fill it with sand, and cap it. To use it I can pour in it a little alcohol and ignite. Good enough for a tea kettle or such.


What do you think of these alternatives ???

1 - Sterno stove ( Just buy and store it )
2 - alcohol-sand stove ( Sterno can half-filled with sand and fueled by denatured alcohol )
3 - Super cat stove ( tuna can , make holes on sides, pour alcohol and ignite )

If this is for work, I would make sure about any municipal or building or work regulations about storing any sort of fuel at work before acting on any suggestions you get.

Besides the actual fire hazard, I mention this in particular with you since you said you're getting close to retirement. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I would hate for something like this to be used as an excuse to terminate you, especialy if you're on someone's bad side (referring to your other post). A couple cans of sterno are about as dangerous as a couple cans of cat food sitting in your desk drawer, but anything can be blown out of proportion if someone tries, I guess.

One alternative approach that may give you more latitude is perhaps to store them in your car, if you drive to work and feel comfortable enough about your choice to leave it in the car.

I have a pair of Swiss Ranger volcano stove kits that I opened up to take a Sterno can and the slightly smaller Trangia alcohol burner... the corrugated sides of the stove do not allow a Sterno can to drop in, the Trangia does...

the Trangia works very well on denatured alcohol, and easily outperforms the Sterno

if you loop a Dietz style lamp wick in the bottom of the open well of the Trangia, 70% isopropyl alcohol will work about as well as the jellied alcohol in the Sterno can, as the wick will eventually get the brass hot enough to boil the alcohol and work the jet ring...if you make a tight loop not touching the sides of the well with the wick, it will heat the well quicker

I chose to include the lesser performing Sterno in my car kit due to its storage advantages...

a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the work place should not look suspicious...

Alcohol based hand sanitizer (Purell is a popular brand) works extremely well in a Trangia, boiling a small pot of water is about four minutes. I'll bet your office has some handy; if not, it is extremely innocuous.

Sterno is worthless for cooking, but OK for warming. You could probably make a decent alcohol stove out of a Sterno can.

Also, an empty Purell bottle makes a fine container for liquid alcohol if you want fuel that has a higher heat content.

I've made a couple of alcohol stoves and they work much better than I've ever seen sterno muster. They also cost nothing, are tiny and weigh almost zero too.

Put a pint of alcohol with your first aid items and let it serve two purposes.

It's silly but people won't think twice about alcohol in a first aid cabinet but put it in a box with a small stove and a bic lighter and someone will think you want to burn the place down.

One site suggested using a Sterno folding stove with a Trangia burner. They said the ideal burner-to-pot-bottom distance for just boiling water is 1.75", and about 1" for real cooking (frying and simmering). They used two empty tuna cans under the Trangia to raise it high enough to do the job.

In your particular case, if you had these things stashed in your desk and someone found them, most people probably wouldn't even know what they were. Sterno, yes.

Trying to find out if you can actually cook with Sterno (apparently not), I ran across an entry on the ZenStoves website about Sterno-like stoves that sounded interesting: making your own gelled alcohol. They use ground eggshells, vinegar and alcohol.

They use the eggshells for their calcium carbonate, but Tums (or generics) are just calcium carbonate + flavor & color, so that would probably be more simple, right? Follow the directions and add some denatured alcohol, and you're ready to burn.

Sue

For an office envoronment I would get food that does not require cooking. It's not like you'll be stranded there for months. An unopened jar of peanut butter and a sealed package of saltine crackers should do it.

From a recent camping trip, I can comment on Sterno vs. alcohol (in a Trangia burner). No contest what-so-ever! The Trangia/alcohol stove smacked the Sterno down hard. We were cooking fondue (I know you're now wondering - what kind of camping trip was THAT?!) With Sterno, we couldn't keep the oil hot enough to cook the meat on the little pronged forks. We had to keep running inside the trailer and reheating the oil on the stove in there. I switched over to the Trangia and it kept the oil at a rolling boil forever. And it was a full rolling boil - you had to put your little meat thingies in there carefully because the oil was so hot it almost climbed out of the pot when the food was introduced.

Alcohol stoves invite questions. Nothing against sterno, I have several cans at my house, but not my favorite cooking heat.

I'd go w/ the PB and crackers route, some single packs of salmon and tuna. Some powerbars. couple gallon jugs of water.


If you want the heat factor, could you do a camping gaz stove instead?

Thanks everyoe for your concerns and comments

I do have an electric heater, and it will be my first go-to source of heat. But if power is lost , I may be in a situation that I want to survive, regardless of what comes next.

There will be no problem with "storing" things per se , because lots of "unacceptable" things are already stored around as ( field items) to be used when we go out in the field. Plus we have enough different departments ( like maintenece and paint shop, labs ..etc. ) that denatured alcohol ..etc. are not an issue.

The real question that is bugging me is : if sterno contains alcohol as a fuel, why does it not burn like alcohol stoves ? It it because of the gel that slows the burning ?

If Sterno is out , I am leaning towards a sterno can with sand. It can store forever and when alcohol is poured in , it makes a good stove. But I need a stand. The super cat does not need a stand. hmmmmm

I just got a canteen cup stove stand from the canteenshop. Very well made. Fits nicely around my old canteen cup. Nestled inside of that is a 250ml nalgene fuel bottle and an altoids tin stove (perlite with a steel screen). Its not for ultralighters, but for a car/office kit its fine.

Let's see what a little research says...

Sterno:
67% Ethanol
3-4% Methanol
Sterno MSDS
Wikipedia says it is "made from ethanol, methanol, water and an amphoteric oxide gelling agent, plus a dye". Does this mean that the missing 30% or so is water? Water and other non-toxic stuff doesn't show up in most MSDS.

Co-zFire Bio Ethanol Fire Place Fuel 190 Proof Denatured:
88-92% 190 proof ethyl alcohol
1-5% Isopropyl alcohol
<1% Isopropyl acetate
1-4% Acetone
Product MSDS

Kleen-Strip Green Denatured Alcohol:
90-100% Ethanol
<10% Methanol
<10% Methyl isobutyl ketone
<5% Acetic acid, Ethyl ester
Kleen-Strip MSDS

I guess you CAN reduce the heat by adding water!

Sue

Thanks susan
You remind me of water in the gel

I remember some "magic show" where a paper tissue is wetted with fuel and burnt. Fire is lighted but paper does not burn. Fuel is a mixture of alcohol & water !!!

So, that is why sterno has a "cool" fire.


Now, my question to all is that, if I fill a can with sand instead of perlite, and then pour alcohol in it. It should burn just fine while danger spillage or splash is minimized.

Is this true or have I missed something ??

Thanks LED

I have seen a few videos about the canteen cup stove stand
In one of them at least, the guy added four nuts & bolts to raise the pot a little above the stand. From your and everyone's experience do you think it is more effeiecient to let the pot sit right on the stand, or is it better to leave half an inch ( or so ) distance for flames to come through the stand holes and touch more surface of the pots bottom ??

The stand has four raised holes for pot support allowing flames to pass through and hit the pot.
I have one too.

Lee

I have one of these stoves:

http://foldingfirebox.com/

I love it. You can set it up for an alcohol burner, sterno, Esbit, Hexamine, woodburning, etc. It's probably too much stove for just a stow-away-in-the-office emergency setup, but it's a really nice stove IMHO. If you're using something other than wood burning (alcohol, sterno, etc) it's a really good windscreen and pot support.

Thanks for the link haertig, thats a really well designed stove.

the Swiss Ranger Volcano (new surplus..some used stuff out there) kit comes with a nested cup, 500ml aluminum bottle with cork stopper... I got 2 for $20 just to fool around with...if you go with denatured alcohol and a $12 Trangia brass stove (comes with simmer ring and rubber gasketed screw on lid)you could lower and retreive the burner with a piece of bent wire and not go to the effort to open up the fuel feed hole....also works with Esbit, hexamine, twigs...but not on desk top

I had never thought of it until you mentioned it earlier in this thread, and I think it's brilliant! More ballast, less chance to shift or splash/slosh.

Personally, I would use a coarse white silica sand (parakeet grit in small boxes), but that's just me.

Still looking for some of that Kleen-Strip denatured stuff.

Sue

way too much reinventing the wheel going on here..
for around $20 you can get a well made copy of the Trangia alcohol cooking system,burner,pots and a lid/fry pan.there is enough space inside the closed kit to keep a few dry meals and things like tea and coco.



you could keep this and the fuel anywhere,car,home,office and forget about it at that price and when you need it you have a real kit that you can really cook with.



i suggest going for the real thing.pop can stoves and the like are fun but it's like a tent V.S. a trash bag for a shelter.

http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=104

I think this may be the alcohol needed; the other stuff, mineral spirits, is something different.

http://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-Denatured-Alcohol-Quart/dp/B000SL3S6Y/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

Thanks, Byrd, but I've checked several of those chains around here and find an empty shelf or get a blank stare of puzzlement. Onward!

And my constitution is averse to paying for shipping on things that SOMEONE must carry nearby.

Sue

Susan lowes and home depot should carry it also try Rei.

Lee

Where? I'd be interested in buying a $20 copy. Who sells this? Do you have a URL/link or a merchant name? Thanks!

REI sells the mini-Trangia, a cookset and stove, for $34. It includes a small nonstick lid/frying pan and windscreen.

Haertig..easy hit...look at Campmor..
http://www.campmor.com/ledmark-aluminum-alcohol-cookset.shtml

THANKS! That's great. Looks like the perfect thing to stow away for emergency preparedness.