Earthquake

Posted by: paramedicpete

Earthquake - 08/23/11 05:03 PM

I know some of our west coast members are used to the ground shaking, but we just had an earthquake in the D.C. area.

Kind of an interesting feeling shocked.

Pete
Posted by: bws48

5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:06 PM

We just (a few minutes ago) had a 5.8 quake in the Washington D.C. area. I am 20+ miles east near Annapolis MD and it knocked over framed photos etc., but no damage or aftershocks so far. Early TV report that Pentagon and Capital are being evacuated.

How are local DC area members doing?
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:16 PM

Looks like it's centered east of Charlottesville, VA:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/shakemap/global/shake/c0005ild/
Posted by: Andy

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:20 PM

Felt it strongly in SE PA 130 miles north of DC. Apparently the "old crust" under the east coast is very efficient in spreading the waves outwards.

Last one I felt on the east cost was in early '73.

I know our west coast members are laughing their *a&&*s off.
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:24 PM


I'm near the Capitol Building -- first thought was that there was a huge explosion.

Incredible. It's one thing to know the potential for earthquake shaking (the 1811-12 New Madrid quakes rang church bells in DC and Boston) but quite another to experience this shaking. The east coast's geology does transmit earthquake waves more efficiently than California's.

People ran out of buildings into the street and everyone was asking aloud what the heck had happened.

Sounds like a shallow quake (3.7 miles down) and 5.9 or 6.0 is enormous for the east coast. Virginia has a history of quakes but previously 4.0 or so was about the upper limit in recent years.

I'm going to run home and see how 100 year old brick rowhouses are faring.

Cell phone still is not functioning. Cell service cut out right away.

Walked my dog with a friend this morning and she commented on what a beautiful day it is: "9/11 sky," she said.
Posted by: Arney

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:27 PM

Reports that people felt it as far as Toronto and Michigan and Ohio? For a 5.9? Yeah, that's pretty efficient transmission of the energy over long distances. A West Coast quake generally does not propogate that far.

It's amazing how it's grinding everything to a halt or least slowing things--the Federal gov't, Wall St., major airports, etc.
Posted by: Jesselp

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:29 PM

I felt the quake very clearly here on Long Island, just outside of NYC. Though I've never felt an earthquake before, there was no doubt what it was.

I marvelled at the feeling for a moment, until I noticed that the house was shaking enough that the windowshades were hitting the windows. Then I decided to ride the rest out in my backyard.

Very odd.

That said, it confirms that we're doomed here in NY if anything really bad ever happens. JFK and Newark airports are currently closed, due to evacuations of the control towers.

Now, I'll go back to worrying about hurricane Irene.
Posted by: Jesselp

Re: Earthquake - 08/23/11 05:30 PM

Felt it clearly here around NYC!
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:36 PM

Please, nobody tell my girlfriend. She thought I made the earth move. That will be our secret. O, here she comes. Signing off in haste, DB
Posted by: Arney

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:41 PM

Sounds like it could be a real messy commute home today for places like NYC if public transit remains shut down for inspections when ppl are trying to get home.

Good luck trying to call ppl on your cell phone now since everyone is trying to call each other to ask if they felt the quake.
Posted by: JBMat

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 05:46 PM

It's the applesauce, run and hide, the earth is falling. Or something. Maybe I got the words wrong.

My two cats looked at me like I was causing it. Note to self, when you become an evil overlord, use cats as minions, they are easy to convince.
Posted by: Frisket

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:02 PM

First A hurricane is gonna hit me on my vacation now i got a txt from my bro that up in NY they got a earthquake aswell that was triggerd by the one in Virginia. wonderfullllll! Anywho anyone else from the NY area that can shed some light for me please? Id really appreciate it.
Posted by: Andy

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: JBMat
My two cats looked at me like I was causing it. Note to self, when you become an evil overlord, use cats as minions, they are easy to convince.


Don't believe it for a second, the cats already hold the position of evil overload, they just have you convinced that the situation is reversed. Damned subtle about it they are...
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Andy
Don't believe it for a second, the cats already hold the position of evil overload, they just have you convinced that the situation is reversed. Damned subtle about it they are...


That's right, my two fat cats certainly acted the part of the evil overload. They climbed up on these bookshelves, and down came the whole structure. Evil overloads, I'll get you yet!

DB
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:32 PM


Still can't get a call through on the cell phone. Am home now. Some wall stuff askew, slightly. Checked on a neighbor's house and she had one platter fall off a hutch and also some paintings askew.

Lots of sirens and evacuees from nearby office buildings are milling about throughout the neighborhood.

Unusual amount of traffic on neighborhood streets. Not anywhere near 9/11 gridlock but some peops are obviously calling it a day and going home early. Fortunately this is the height of summer vacation season for locals so commuting traffic is lighter than normal to begin with.

News reports of a nuclear plant's automatic shut-down does get one's attention. There's just no getting out of this city in a hurry unless it's between midnight and 4:00a.
Posted by: Susan

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:44 PM

Quote:
I know our west coast members are laughing their *a&&*s off.


Not me! A 5.8 is a pretty good jolt, wherever it is.

I've lived my whole life in quake country, and I have a lot of respect for those things!

p.s. It's been upgraded to a 5.9.

Sue
Posted by: Russ

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:50 PM

There has been mention of a hurricane approaching too. Use your early day off to top off the pantry, supplies and fuel tank.

I agree with Susan, 5.9 is big out here if it's close enough. With the geological make-up of the east coast, 5.9 is plenty.
Posted by: rebwa

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 06:57 PM


After the Nisqually quake both my landline and cell were useless for any calls in the state. However, friends and relatives from both Arizona and the midwest were able to call.

Fox just reported it as a 5.9.
Posted by: Eugene

East coast earthquake - 08/23/11 07:10 PM

Everyone has probably heard the news already so I won't rehash that.
My office chair moved in central OH on the top (third) floor of an office building. I have a stuffy head sinus thing going on and thought I was passing out until everyone else around me was asking if anyone else felt that.
I don't have earthquakes listed on my risk assessment, we have tornado's, fire, flood, winter storms, etc, but earthquakes were never a threat on the east coast.
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 07:33 PM


I live on Capitol Hill and am just back from walking my pup. A friend on the next block said that plaster in his upstairs cracked.

These brick rowhouses are 100 years old.

This friend is also in the process of buying a home in Richmond and has now been advised that it would now need to be re-appraised.

So there is reverb. Traffic has been quite heavy in the past hour as people are going home early as many office buildings have been closed pending inspection.

Most buildings here just were not built with any thought given to earthquakes.

When the quake was happening I really thought there had been a massive explosion.

Be prepared!





Posted by: Arney

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 07:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Dagny
Most buildings here just were not built with any thought given to earthquakes.

That's a tricky issue for you folks affected by this earthquake. I have seen a number of reports where people were fleeing out into the street during the shaking.

The bulk of injuries in an earthquake in places like the West Coast occur in that zone between inside and outside a building, due to falling debris. On the other hand, when the buildings are quite vulnerable to earthquakes, like many of these old buildings, especially the brick ones, there's also the chance that the building could partially or wholly collapse in a strong quake. That's a tough call.

If I were there, I would probably revert to my West coast thinking that it's safest to stay indoors if I were already there. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like anyone had to survive any major structural collapse. But y'know, building collapses and building facades crashing onto the sidewalk were a fact of life when I was in NYC even without an earthquake, so it's really a crap shoot.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Bingley
Please, nobody tell my girlfriend. She thought I made the earth move. That will be our secret. O, here she comes. Signing off in haste, DB


LOL!!!
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 08:00 PM


Another issue with building evacuations that I'm hearing from peops and reading about in the Post: being unable to retrieve valuables like purses and car/house keys when buildings are closed subject to safety inspection.

Ever since the anthrax attacks of 2001, I do not ever leave my purse behind -- not for fire drills or anything else.

This episode will be reminding a lot of people about the lessons they learned on 9/11 and during the anthrax situations.
Posted by: powerring

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 08:06 PM

I live in Lake Monticello which is about 25 miles from the epicenter in Mineral, VA. At 5.8, this was definitely the biggest earthquake I've experienced. The last earthquake of any size that occurred here was a 4.5 in 2003. Oddly, I was in exactly the same spot in my home office during both earthquakes. Beyond some things falling off of shelves, I had no damage. Cell phone service was impacted on both the Verizon and Sprint networks, presumably due to overload.

It's amazing to me that the recent terrible earthquake in Christchurch, NZ was a 6.3 for comparison. I guess the differences in the ground structure made a huge difference in the damage. We were fortunate. If nothing else, maybe it will make everyone prepare better for Hurricane Irene, due in a few days.
Posted by: GettingThere

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 08:16 PM

I was on a remote assignment inside the Capitol when the earthquake struck. Nice feeling being inside a 200-year-old building when there is moderate ground shaking ! eek

There are a few lessons that I learned from this experience (my first quake):

1) I need to create a non-bladed, backup PSK. I left my PSK behind because Capitol Police are very leary of blades. Luckily, I didn't need it, but I sure felt vulnerable without it.

2) Don't count on cell phones. Service went down almost immediately, either due to volume or interruptions. I am on Verizon, and had visible bars, but could not get through to others with different services. Texts were spotty as well.

3) A burner bike at work is a good idea. Traffic, usually heavy mid-afternoons, was snarled. It looked like 9/11 all over again. Tunnels and bridges were closed, and train travel was overcrowded and crawling along on suspect tracks.

4) We were very fortunate. Had the shaking lasted longer than the fifteen seconds I experienced, things could have been much worse. The older buildings seemed to have held up well, though.

I hope everyone in the area is okay.

Mark
Posted by: bws48

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 08:25 PM

The Richter scale can be confusing because it is logarithmic and not linear, and most people (me!) think in linear terms. So a 6.3 earthquake releases something like 43 kilotons (of TNT) of energy while the 5.8 (first report)Virgina earthquake released something like 7.6 kilotons. A big difference. Thus, the Christchurch quake released something like five and a half times more energy than the Virginia quake. I'm always confused by log scales, so I had to look it up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

Of course, there are thousands of variables of how much damage is done in any particular place. Old saying: In real estate, location is everything. E.G. some buildings in Baltimore MD, 45 miles north of DC had their facades (Brick) fall off, in all or in part, while here in Annapolis, there are no reports of such damage.

There is one report that the Washington Monument is "leaning".
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: GettingThere
There are a few lessons that I learned from this experience (my first quake):

1) I need to create a non-bladed, backup PSK. I left my PSK behind because Capitol Police are very leary of blades. Luckily, I didn't need it, but I sure felt vulnerable without it.


Welcome to your first quake! So when you said Capitol Police don't like blades, do you mean the police in DC in general, or just around Capitol Hill? Do they allow scissors, even the safety kind for kids? Some sort of cutting tool seems necessary.

Da Bing
Posted by: GettingThere

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 09:11 PM

I apologize, as I should have been clearer. The Capitol is policed by its own force, and they take a dim view of weaponry. They give me the fisheye when I carry large screwdrivers. Since I need their good graces more than they need mine, I do not try their patience. I'm sure that safety scissors would be fine, and it's a good idea (thanks). Finding a pair that is sufficiently sturdy, yet small enough for a PSK, is the tricky part. Any suggestions?
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 09:19 PM


Just back from another walk. A house on the next block lost the top of its chimney. Several instances of cracks in masonry.

DC is 80 miles from the epicenter.

Also interesting is the thought process everyone I talked to went through during the quake. Not one person I've talked to immediately thought: "Earthquake!"

That was maybe the 3rd or 4th possibility that came to their minds. If there was any construction project nearby, peops tended to think the shaking was related to that. One friend of mine in Virginia thought something had fallen on her house.

2nd or 3rd possibility was: "Terrorism"

Finally, after checking the Internet: earthquake

There are now news reports of pipes bursting, ceilings falling, at least one residential building in Maryland condemned.
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: GettingThere
I'm sure that safety scissors would be fine, and it's a good idea (thanks). Finding a pair that is sufficiently sturdy, yet small enough for a PSK, is the tricky part. Any suggestions?


If it's gotta fit inside an Altoid box, then I guess you may be down to grooming scissors. I guess your cover story would be you require a good manicure even when civilization has fallen apart. You may have to be totally flamboyant when giving this excuse to make it convincing.

If you allow for something a little bigger, perhaps some sort of forged scissors could work. They are entirely made of steel, and I suppose if you have a screwdriver you can take them apart and use them as blades. Here's a small one:

http://www.amazon.com/Gingher-G-4PS-4-In...824&sr=8-14

or maybe try the smaller of the high-quality Mundial sewing scissors:

http://www.mundialusa.com/sewing_individual.html

I guess your cover story would include stitching together fetish leatherwear in a Mad Max situation.

I personally haven't had experiences with any of these except the grooming scissors. And yes, I require manicure in earthquakes, floods, zombies, etc. You can't take apart and put back together a 1911 pistol otherwise.

Da Bing
Posted by: Finn

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 10:19 PM

Hi,

First, glad everyone closer than me is ok.
Was at work when it hit. I too had the mental run-through: truck? aircraft? explosion at Fort Lee? Terror? Oh, an earthquake- ok. Knocked some DVDs off a shelf. No damage in the Tri-Cities area. Two aftershocks (that I know of) already.
Been through a number of quakes when I was a student at SFSU. Scary, but not as bad as terror.
More concerned with Irene. Feel pretty prepared, but will still buy water & a couple of candles.
Have a good night!
Posted by: UTAlumnus

Re: Earthquake - 08/23/11 10:55 PM

+1 down here.

The description on CBS news was that due to the geology, the eastern seaboard rings like a bell when a quake happens. Earthquakes are relatively low on my list but not off of it due to the New Madrid fault on the other end of the state.
Posted by: Andy

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 11:10 PM

Try these mini utility scissors. That's what I carry in DC on the Hill or at PSQ. They fit most anywhere and cut reasonably well.

I try to keep the CP happy too.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 11:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Dagny

...being unable to retrieve valuables like purses and car/house keys when buildings are closed subject to safety inspection... I do not ever leave my purse behind -- not for fire drills or anything else.


It always amazes me how many people leave their purses and keys behind when they go out for lunch, a smoke or a firedrill. Likwise, the ones who go out in just a shirt in the colder, wetter weather.

I always think "what are you going to do when you can't get back in?"

I recall a fire alarm once about 30 mins before quitting time, that turned into an ordeal of a almost 2 hours. I went home. Most stayed and grumbled because they couldn't go home. They didn't learn though. Just lived to complain the next time around.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 11:22 PM

We're just coming off siren testing at the Pickering nuclear plant, which I work beside. Nobody I work with takes prepping for a nuclear accident seriously. We felt a little tremor today but hardly noticed it. Nobody paid much attention until we heard it on the radio and someone asked how much shaking the nuke box can withstand.

I don't expect much to come of it (is the betting closed yet?) and so am glad I only work with a few people, and not my old office of hundreds.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/23/11 11:43 PM

Quote:

Nobody paid much attention until we heard it on the radio and someone asked how much shaking the nuke box can withstand.


Contrary to the information released by Tempco the Fukishima reactors were reported to have began melting down before the Tsunami hit and took out the backup Diesel gen sets. I think that most reactor documentation requires the recording of X-ray welds to the plumbing which keeps the whole pile cool i.e static pressure testing. I don't think that the welds are tested for shear forces so even a relatively minor earthquake could prove to be quite disastrous.

http://vimeo.com/27481567 crazy crazy crazy

Just goes to show that even a reactor can begin to fall apart quite drastically just to lack of maintenance and rodents chewing cables. wink


BTW I hope the radioactive fall out mentioned in a previous thread (postulated that it was a buildup of Radon Gas in the atmosphere) doesn't herald a massive quake in the next few weeks.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229952#Post229952

Posted by: hikermor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor



BTW I hope the radioactive fall out mentioned in a previous thread (postulated that it was a buildup of Radon Gas in the atmosphere) doesn't herald a massive quake in the next few weeks.


Huh? Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement, please?
Posted by: Mike_H

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:30 AM

Also in SE PA... Took a moment to register what was really happening sitting their in my office. Talk about an eye opener. I've never felt anything quite so unsettling as that.
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:31 AM

Quote:
Huh? Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement, please?


There have been various potential earthquake precursor events, Radon gas anomalies being one of them along with GPS anomalies i.e. measurement of the GPS error due to the wide variability in Total Electron Content (ionisation) in the upper troposphere. WAAS system of GPS ground stations can map the TEC.

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/may102004/1288.pdf

http://ursigass2011.org/abstracts/ursi/GHE3-5.pdf

There has also been visual indications of atmospheric anomalies as well such as rainbow effects in clear sky and strange cloud formations reported as well.

I also remember that even before the recent Japanese Earthquake there were atmospheric IR anomalies recorded as well.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26773/




Posted by: hikermor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:38 AM

Thank you. There have also been strange animal behaviors noted, changing well levels, etc. None of these has been consistently associated with earthquake events to my knowledge. Reliable earthquake prediction is still in the future IMHO.
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:52 AM

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Thank you. There have also been strange animal behaviors noted, changing well levels, etc. None of these has been consistently associated with earthquake events to my knowledge. Reliable earthquake prediction is still in the future IMHO.


I thought it's been proved fairly recently that strange animal behavior may at times be found prior to an earthquake because of the release of a certain chemical or gas (don't remember which) which accompanies the sort of big geological movements that precede an earthquake. The next step is developing some sort of satellite-based technology to detect the release of said chemical or gas, rather than relying on animals. I am probably remembering this wrong, but this came out around the big earthquake in China. Do we have earthquake scientists among us? Or at least someone who wants to google a bit? Am too lazy right now.

Da Bing
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 02:01 AM

Quote:
Reliable earthquake prediction is still in the future IMHO


That might be the case, but even defining what would be considered 'Reliable' to the public doesn't really matter anyway. Would the authorities tell anyone of their suspicions that a there was a 60% chance of a 7+ earthquake within a 200 mile by 10 mile fault area in the next 5 weeks be an acceptable criteria . Where does the threshold lie before informing the Public of the potential threat? esp when you have organisations such as the USGS publically stating categorically that Earthquakes cannot be predicted with any degree of accuracy (but still have yet to define the accuracy threshold)

What is the point of the USGS's work on Earthquake monitoring if this is the case. Their work should have been wound up years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6wXT0IELww @9:18 wink
Posted by: comms

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
Reliable earthquake prediction is still in the future IMHO


Would the authorities tell anyone of their suspicions that a there was a 60% chance of a 7+ earthquake within a 200 mile by 10 mile fault area in the next 5 weeks be an acceptable criteria . Where does the threshold lie before informing the Public of the potential threat?


Well not to poke holes, but the American press loves to spout ridiculous statements exactly like that. According to them Washington State is under constant scare of Mt. Rainer exploding and at any moment varying parts of California will be destroyed by an earthquake. Oh and some stupid Plant X, Nirhiu(?) event is happening. All my loony Facebook friends are posting stuff on that.
Posted by: MDinana

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 08:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Andy
Felt it strongly in SE PA 130 miles north of DC. Apparently the "old crust" under the east coast is very efficient in spreading the waves outwards.

Last one I felt on the east cost was in early '73.

I know our west coast members are laughing their *a&&*s off.

Yup. I was smile 5.8? I sleep through those. OK, really, it's a decent size.

I feel bad for my wife. She's from Wisconsin, I'm a Cali boy. She's never felt one. We live in VA, maybe 80 miles from the epicenter. Of course, she's out of the country right now.

Oh, public service announcement: Don't go running into the streets people. That's just going to get you hit by cars. From experience, I can tell you a 6.2 isn't always felt when you're driving. I bet almost everyone in a car yesterday didn't know it was happening, and if you run in front of them, they're not expecting it.
Posted by: 7point82

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 09:56 AM

Glad to hear everyone is ok. smile
Posted by: williamlatham

Re: Earthquake - 08/24/11 10:37 AM

Agreed, very interesting to feel the earth move. Really puts a perspective on just how much energy is in an earthquake. Clearly felt it here in Alexandria, VA.

Bill
Posted by: Lono

Re: Earthquake - 08/24/11 10:57 AM

Honestly if I had been in the VA quake I might have resisted the WA instinct to duck cover and hold, and simply bend over and kiss my arse goodbye, expecting a blast wave to follow.

I first heard about the quake from a TV in a hallway, CNN said it was centered 85 miles SW of DC and I automatically thought oh boy, there's are nuclear reactors right about there, maybe something catastrophic happened.

Its interesting to me that both of my initial reactions had nothing to do with earthquakes - I think more often of the DC area as a strategic target area for enemies of the US. Didn't realize it also had serious EQs.

Best thread of the event goes on over on zombiehunters.org, where wags have already rationalized the cause of the EQ as the lizard people, specifically an angry attempt to surface after an offer to feed Congress to the lizard queen was rebuffed. Love it.
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 11:58 AM

The local media is reporting (with 20/20 hindsight) that some of the animals at the National Zoo did react with alarm/alert types of behaviors and vocalizations prior to the earthquake.

Pete
Posted by: Dagny

Re: Earthquake - 08/24/11 12:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Lono
Honestly if I had been in the VA quake I might have resisted the WA instinct to duck cover and hold, and simply bend over and kiss my arse goodbye, expecting a blast wave to follow.

I first heard about the quake from a TV in a hallway, CNN said it was centered 85 miles SW of DC and I automatically thought oh boy, there's are nuclear reactors right about there, maybe something catastrophic happened.

Its interesting to me that both of my initial reactions had nothing to do with earthquakes - I think more often of the DC area as a strategic target area for enemies of the US. Didn't realize it also had serious EQs.



Lono -- you are spot-on. No one I've talked to here has said their initial thought was that it was an earthquake. Most said their first instinct was that there had been a construction accident near or at wherever they were at the time.

The next thought was that there had been a terrorist attack. That's the one that was in my mind when I hustled outside. It was out there that I heard speculation of an earthquake and checked the USGS website.

My first thought on the earthquake possibility was that there had been a catastrophic New Madrid quake and like 1811-1812, it was "ringing bells" back east. When I saw on the USGS site that it was Virginia, my geology geekdom kicked in. I'd previously read everything I could find on Virginia/Mid-Atlantic seismicity.

People in cars had a variety of reactions. One friend was on the 14th Street Bridge and did not notice anything. Another was driving in Bethesda and thought something was terribly wrong with his car and put the transmission in neutral thinking that was the problem.

This degree of shaking in DC has not happened in anyone's lifetime so yesterday's quake lacked context for most of us. I grew up in Los Angeles and remember the '71 Sylmar quake (6.5 magnitude) but that happened at 6:00a and woke us up.

9/11 was my context for this event so thoughts went to attack -- massive bomb explosion. Really, on my way outside my mind was processing how large a bomb(s) would be to cause the earth to move in that way and for such a period of time.

Was relieved to discover it was an earthquake.
Posted by: chaosmagnet

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: GettingThere
The Capitol is policed by its own force, and they take a dim view of weaponry.


While not as good for many things as a dedicated folder or fixed-blade knife, I can get a multitool many places where a knife isn't welcome.
Posted by: Russ

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 03:44 PM

The Leatherman Fuse with no knife blade could probably go just about anywhere.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Earthquake - 08/24/11 04:24 PM

Quote:
Was relieved to discover it was [just] an earthquake.


Yes, the lesser of all the evils. Who would have thought?

Sue
Posted by: Bingley

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Russ
The Leatherman Fuse with no knife blade could probably go just about anywhere.


Except the airport. Someone on this forum reported that his Fuse was confiscated by the TSA. Leatherman has also discontinued this version of the Fuse, probably because no item can ever receive the status of TSA-compliant, otherwise the terrorists would have already won.

It seems to me that we may have to adopt the strategy of including a cutting tool that we can afford to lose, if we go to such high security areas.

DB
Posted by: Susan

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 04:35 PM

Learn flintknapping and use obsidian. Makes a nice, sharp blade.

Sue
Posted by: bws48

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:

Nobody paid much attention until we heard it on the radio and someone asked how much shaking the nuke box can withstand.


Contrary to the information released by Tempco the Fukishima reactors were reported to have began melting down before the Tsunami hit and took out the backup Diesel gen sets. I think that most reactor documentation requires the recording of X-ray welds to the plumbing which keeps the whole pile cool i.e static pressure testing. I don't think that the welds are tested for shear forces so even a relatively minor earthquake could prove to be quite disastrous.



On the way home I heard a radio news discussion of the topic of the safety of the local (Lake Anna, I think) nuclear plant. Apparently it was designed to withstand the largest known earthquake in the area, plus "a safety margin." That designed in safety margin quake size was almost, if not the same, as the 5.8 they just suffered. A too close call IMO.

What many people forget is that designed in safety margins are reduced if not downright eliminated by age and lack of proper maintenance. Just because a structure when brand new had a 1.5X (or whatever) designed in safety margin, years of neglect and poor maintenance erodes this until you lose that safety margin and start eating into the actual required strength. "Deferred Maintenance" or whatever the current buzz-words are for not doing proper maintenance can be deadly.
Posted by: bws48

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 07:42 PM

And on another note, here is the summary of significant damage Annapolis and our county suffered. I have to admit, the photo of the 2 buildings (both well known) separated at the top (there should be no space between them) is kind of impressive. . .

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/2011/08/24-38/Where-were-you-when-earth-shook.html
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/24/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

A too close call IMO


Well, we are only 24hrs or so in with regard to the North Anna Nuclear Power plant, which was only 5 miles from the epicentre of the 5.8 earth quake. Considering that external power was lost to the site and the reactors were using last ditch on site diesel power backup (of which 1 of the 4 diesel gen sets failed) then I suspect that major damage may have occurred. Hopefully nothing that will continue to hamper the shutdown (which will take weeks to months for the pile to cool down), but it may be that these reactors will never restart again.
Posted by: Susan

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/25/11 01:24 AM

Quote:
Apparently it was designed to withstand the largest known earthquake in the area


Uh-huh. The World Trade Center Towers were designed to withstand a jetliner crashing into them, I hear. Just not ones carrying fuel.

Just tell people what they want to hear and you're good to go.

Sue
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/25/11 01:53 AM

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac

We're just coming off siren testing at the Pickering nuclear plant, which I work beside. Nobody I work with takes prepping for a nuclear accident seriously. We felt a little tremor today but hardly noticed it. Nobody paid much attention until we heard it on the radio and someone asked how much shaking the nuke box can withstand.

I don't expect much to come of it (is the betting closed yet?) and so am glad I only work with a few people, and not my old office of hundreds.


We're in the midst of thunder storms now, which were precursored by tornado watches and warnings through the afternoon and evening. Everyone at work, and most of my friends were back to shrugging their shoulders.

If you bet that the preparedness itch would pass quickly, you win!
Posted by: paramedicpete

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/25/11 01:51 PM

So what do you think the historic area will look like this time if Irene heads up the Chesapeake, like Isabel did?

Pete
Posted by: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/25/11 06:58 PM


Looks like another 4.5 Earthquake (aftershock or pre shock to a larger event??) centred around 6 miles away from the Anna Nuclear Plant.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/usc0005jg1.php
Posted by: bws48

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/25/11 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
So what do you think the historic area will look like this time if Irene heads up the Chesapeake, like Isabel did?

Pete


The City Dock area of downtown Annapolis floods fairly frequently, even at high tides when the wind is right; it is very low. The saving grace is that the surrounding areas rise quickly from the level of the bay; Main Street, which runs from city dock to the state Capital Building, rises very quickly; a reasonably steep but short walk.

Business owners in the area immediately adjacent to the docks are practiced in sand bagging and pumping out the stores. Most are owned by family's that have been in business there for many many years.

This area has been a port since the 1700's. Remember Alex Haley and Kunta Kinte? There is a monument at dock street where he (Kunta Kinte) landed.

So, it all depends on the details; I would expect some flooding, but anything less than, say, 2-3 feet, will be taken in stride. It would have to come up a great deal to damage too many business. However, the businesses mentioned in the article, Armadillo's and Storm Bros. Ice Cream Factory are right at the Dock and are in the line of fire so to speak. BTW, Storm Brothers is an old fashioned ice cream parlor and a short walk from the Navel Academy. A national resource. Been there many times. Try their Pistachio ice cream. (no association, just a frequent customer!)

Isabel did produce a fairly high surge, and did cause some damage, but downtown recovered very quickly.
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/26/11 03:05 AM

I read that there was a quake, about the same size as this one, in Colorado on the same day. I've hardly heard a peep about that one. I guess it shakes up the East Coast because most of us don't think of earthquakes as risks out here.

Even a "small" one can do serious damage. (6 nuke plants shaked by this one, 2 of which are in my neck of the woods.) And, if we can get a "small" one, doesn't that mean we could get a big one?
Posted by: Susan

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/26/11 08:14 PM

Quote:
And, if we can get a "small" one, doesn't that mean we could get a big one?


Probably a bigger one than you would want.

Sue
Posted by: bacpacjac

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/26/11 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Susan
Quote:
And, if we can get a "small" one, doesn't that mean we could get a big one?


Probably a bigger one than you would want.

Sue


My thoughts exactly Sue!
Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 08/27/11 12:36 PM

Interesting article in today's WSJ about lessons being learned from this week's Virginia earthquake that are of particular concern in safeguarding east coast nuclear reactors.

Especially noteworthy, to me, is the observation that east coast quakes' ground motion is "high frequency" while west coast quakes are a lower frequency and that the distinction has ramifications.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...oWhatsNewsForth

Earthquake Triggers Reactor-Design Review

Experts believe sensitive electrical equipment at North Anna responded to high-frequency ground motion—which is a hallmark of Eastern quakes, but not of Western ones—as if it were an electrical disturbance. Nine relays designed to protect expensive transformers from damage misread that cue, temporarily cutting off the plant from the electric grid, according to Dominion's Mr. Heacock.

Every earthquake produces a broad range of ground motion frequencies, expressed in "hertz" or cycles per second. But Western quakes are more noted for the lower frequencies that are especially damaging to large, rigid structures, such as buildings and bridges. Higher frequencies are more debilitating to finely tuned equipment such as electrical or electronic devices.


Posted by: Dagny

Re: 5.8 Quake in Washington DC area - 09/16/11 02:29 PM


USGS is still studying the August 23 east coast quake. They've concluded that this was the most widely-felt earthquake in U.S. history.

How exactly they define "widely-felt" I don't know. Surely the 1811-12 New Madrid earthquakes would have been felt more widely, if there were more people around back then to feel them. That earthquake epicenter in 1811-12 was the frontier of the U.S. at that time.


http://www.dmme.virginia.gov/DMR3/va_5.8_earthquake.shtml

August 23, 2011 1:51pm; 5.8 Magnitude Earthquake
Louisa County, Virginia

Virginia and much of the East Coast experienced a widely-felt earthquake at 1:51 p.m. eastern daylight time on Tuesday, August 23, 2011. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, the epicenter of the quake was located near Cuckoo, in Louisa County. With a magnitude of 5.8, this is the largest Virginia earthquake recorded by seismometers. 24 aftershocks have been reported by the USGS and the area is currently being monitored by geophysicists from several leading science institutions. Click here for more detailed information on the 5.8 magnitude earthquake.

[b]The U.S. Geological Survey is now reporting that this is the most widely-felt earthquake in U.S. history.[
/b]