Potable water in the toilet tank

Everyone knows that you can drink the water in the toilet tank (NOT the bowl!)

But during a water shortage, if people have access to non-potable (contaminated) water, you know they'll be adding it to the toilet tank to flush the toilets because they're so used to just hitting the lever.

BUT... just how clean-able is the inside of the toilet tank? Sure, the outside is glazed ceramic, but the inside looks more porous. Many years ago, people were putting bricks in the toilet tanks to save water via displacement. The porous bricks became bacteria factories and started stinking.

So, if non-potable is added to the toilet tank, is the tank contaminated forever, never to be a source of drinkable water again? Does it matter as to contaminants (organic/inorganic)? If you bleached the tank, would it really take care of the organic contaminants? Would repeated use (flushing) water down inorganics to a safe level?

I don't remember ever seeing this issue addressed, ever, anywhere.

Sue

because of the porosity you mentioned, I would treat the water as any other suspect source...you can save a lot of water if you flush by adding non potable water directly to the bowl... try it first and pour slowly...

My first go to choice after the dedicated storage is the hot water heater...if it's elevated it's much easier to access...cut a section off the female end of your garden hose long enough to reach a fill station, clean the critters out the section, and put a female repair end back on the outside section

Just received my Sawyer .1 micron 5 gal bucket kit, you guys really need to look at this thing.. just over $50 at Adventure Safety Products...

The insides of most tanks look porous; that is, they are not glazed. They probably aren't porous at all or they would become bacteria sites just like bricks, right?

Once the a tank has received contaminated water, I would be very cautious and I would treat the water that came from there.

I have been looking at these and would be very interested in hearing about your experiences. Seems to me it would be good in camp as well as a back up at home. I have a two-stage Katadyn pump filter and also carry Micropur MP-1 as a chemical treatment option for trail and camp, but a gravity feed system would be a nice addition. A bonus (I would imagine) is the ability to store other clean gear in the bucket when moving about.

If I can remember, I will culture my toilet tank today or Monday.


One thing to keep in mind regarding contamination is the degree to which the toilet is used. The more frequent the greater the turnover of water. Toilets that are used less frequently will likely have higher counts. That has been our experience with water fountains. Also, those with prefilters (especially charcoal filters which removed residual chlorine) had much higher bacterial counts.

Pete

Byrd_Huntr...I'm not a hiker/camper and the Sawyer is just for hurricane season...they make adapters and bladders for just about any use...they state the .1 micron takes care of the bacteria and protozoa, but not viruses (I plan to use Clorox post filter).. it just filters particulates and not dissolved ions .. they make a .02 micron that will filter viruses... the filter comes with a syringe to back flush the hollow filter media...they claim a million gallons...I cut the hole in the bucket and pre fit the kit, then replaced it in the bag inside the bucket, and applied a piece of clear tape over the hole and stored it with the rest of the hurricane supplies... I've used their filter bottles in the past and was thouroughly satisfied... Sawyer is relatively local to me at Safety Harbor,Fla. , and Adventure Safety is probably their internet outlet just down the road in Oldsmar, Fla...Adventure Safety was recommended to me when I called Sawyer...

The above responses seem to indicate that I wasn't too clear about my question...

Revised question: Due to what appears to be a porous interior, if you pour cow-poop-contaminated river water into the tank, is the tank contaminated forever after, no longer usable as a source of drinking water?

Sue

I have no proof one way or the other sue. But my inner germaphobe says treat it as if it is NOT potable, just as you would any suspect source. I mean, how many toilets do you know that don't need to be fiddled with or fixed every now and then that require someone's hands in the tank. Can you be 100% sure those hands were clean? And like you said someone may have poured suspect water in there in the past. Who knows what else could happen to contaminate the source. Just my 2 cents. YMMV

Nice reframe! LOL! I'd be very hesitant. Makes me wonder, if the answer is "Yes, it can be usable again", How? Once you've contaminated a container like that, how can you un-contaminate it?

Maybe the trick it to take all the potable water out of the tank before you flush with non-potable?

Given that we swim in a sea of microbes, and there are approximately twice as many microbes as human cells in/on the average human, and we would get sick and die if this wasn't so, I don't worry much. There is no such thing as sterile anywhere near humans.

The key is to avoid colonies of disease causing microbes getting into or onto areas of the body where they might take up housekeeping and cause problems. One thing to remember is that microbes are very particular where they can live and thrive. The fungus that causes athlete's foot doesn't often take up resident in the crotch. And the fungus causing crotch corrosion doesn't like toes. And neither of them survive for long inside a healthy human body.

We have to keep in mind that long before humans understood germs and started to take steps to avoid contamination people lived pretty well and even when great diseases were around most people survived. Before the 1800s surgeons generally only washed their hands after surgery. For thousands of years people accepted, and most survived, even as a small proportion got sick, with a certain amount of raw sewage in their drinking water. Water was 'good' if it tasted and looked clean. For thousands of years people didn't understand disease and made up this deficiency with accusations of divine displeasure, witchcraft, and evil spirits.

The Greeks, Romans, Inca, and Chinese had functional knowledge of the need to keep sewage and contaminates away from drinking water. The western world forgot most of what it had learned from previous civilizations and started from scratch. It wasn't until 1854 for there to be an objective study of cholera to develop the modern understanding of epidemiology in relation to water supplies.

In a nutshell Snow noticed most cholera cases were in people who were getting their drinking water from a particular well. He stopped people from using that well by removing the handle and the number of cholera cases fell markedly. An experiment that showed that the prevailing view of the origins of cholera was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snow_%28physician%29

This seems very old-hat, gee ... everyone knows you don't poop where you drink, but you have to remember that the germ theory of disease was not established at the time so if the water looked and smelled okay people assumed it was safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_of_disease

lived pretty well? we survived as a biological population, but life was pretty short - average life spans were (off the top of my head) in the 40s or 50s, infant mortality was routine, and death from infectious diseases quite common. Urban environments exacerbated these conditions. It took centuries for Europe to recover from the Black Plague(s).

This does drift away from the original thread. I will reserve the water in my tank, flush by pouring water directly into the bowl, and when in doubt, boil the water. I like tea anyway.

All common sense precautions. Very wise.

Tea, beer, ale, and wine were all popular in part because there was far less chance of getting sick drinking them instead of water straight from surface sources. When they were laying rails across the Rockies Chinese workers were favored because they had a reputation for being 'healthier'. It is suspected that this had to do with their drinking brewed tea instead of drinking water straight from ditches like the westerners did.

Their more frequent washing, boiling of, clothes and bedding may have further helped by killing lice and limiting diseases. Staying clean, bathing and doing laundry, and preparing food and drink became the basis for many Chinese run businesses in the west.

I don't think ceramics are porous enough to allow bacteria to live deep inside it in dangerous volumes. Overfilling the tank with warm water and a good dose of chlorine bleach should effectively wipe out the 'organics.' Though I think most people would make tea with tank water if the option was available.

Chemical contaminants are a bit trickier. It depends on what you've put in the tank; and that's difficult to know for certain. Ceramics are less vulnerable to leaching than, say, polyethylene, which is notorious for lasting contamination. Scrubbing with soap and warm water should reduce the risk, and the ongoing dilution from use should reduce levels over time, but there's no way to know the exact levels. If you were desperate enough to need that water to stay alive, I guess you would drink deep and take your chances.

Bacteria are living creatures just like us. Deprived of food, water, shelter from harsh environmental conditions they die.

Most municipal water supplies are chlorinated and they work hard to make sure that water that leaves the plant has enough residual chlorine to fight off incidental contamination from human hands and infiltration from loss of pressure.

In one well publicized case in the 80s a DIY plumber working on sewer line tied into a water line and created a situation where a small but steady amount of raw sewage was pumped into the water main. This went on for some time. After a time local plumbers started getting calls from homeowners complaining of reduced water form from their shower heads and faucets. The plumbers find the aerators and shower heads clogged with little black and white specks. They clean them out and flow is restored. But after a few days the problem returns.

After a time people start asking questions about what the material is and where it is coming from. They ask the water plant operators. They sample the water coming from the plant and find no specks. They take a sample to a state lab and testing comes back that he sample is black bits are composed of undifferentiated complex organic material and nitrogen compounds, and the white stuff is cellulose. In non-lab speak - feces and toilet paper.

There was, needless to say, an outraged reaction.

The sewage was tracked back to the botched plumbing job and the situation corrected.

The good news was that nobody got sick. At least not beyond the psychological effect. The system worked. The residual chlorine in thousands of gallons of treated water effectively killed the bacteria from a few score gallons of raw sewage. The people living at the house where the sewage-to-water connection was made were most at risk. Because they were drawing their drinking water from the location where the sewage was most concentrated, and where the chlorine had had the least amount of time to do its job.

Before anyone gives up on municipal water and shifts entirely to bottled water for drinking you have to understand that municipal water supplies are tightly regulated. Bottled water is much less well regulated and tested.

Not all water supplies are chlorinated. Our local water association only chlorinates one a year when they clean the storage tanks, and they don't floridate, either.

I was just curious, thinking perhaps of some family who doesn't have our interests.

Sue

the tanks are a great place to test out small containers to see just how WP they are..no joke.a bit of string attached to keep them from getting into the "works" and left alone for a few weeks and you will get a good idea of just "waterproof"a match case is.i have done that with things like pill bottles and urine sample jars that i was thinking about using for wood matches.all that motion from filling and emptying dunks the test object around to give it a real test.left alone for a week or two should do it.

Canoedogs, I never would have thought of that in a million years. It's a whitewater simulator disguised as a commode. Awesome.

No doubt you are flushed with success at developing this technique...Thanks for sharing....

I'm with Doug, I would never have thought of that!

Shake, rattle and roll underwater!

Sue