Osama Bin Laden Apprently Now Dead.

Just received a Text from a friend stating that Osama is now dead googled it and seems it is true. Another friend told me it has been all over the news for the past hour tho i do not watch the news. Anyone else hear of this via TV or Internets?

Headlines on ABC News website for example:
Osama Bin Laden Killed, Body in U.S. Custody.

CNN also reporting this.

http://abcnews.go.com/

I told my friend TY for the text since I do not keep up with the news or i wouldnt have known. Well not atleast for another few days.

I cannot for the life of me think of a single reason why this subject is relevant to this forum. Will it take us anywhere we want to go? Perhaps there are better places to air this discussion?

My 2c.

Is this not the campfire section for non survival related conversations?

A little O/T but not relevant, I think. It looks like SEAL Team Six took him out. Good riddance so far as I'm concerned. Again, this could have survival implications but they're probably beyond the purview of this site.

Just wanted to throw this out there, also If The mods have a issue with the Topic that I brought up Because it was a subject of interest to me then let it be.

Because:

Certainty of reprisal against American citizens is 100%.
Which is an issue affecting this forum.

Pity they didn't take him alive. So that he could answer for his misdeeds.

Let's hope that he is having an "interesting" discussion with Allah.

The back story on how this guy eluded American justice for so many years is a story of survival preparation and practice that will put meat into discussions for years. What lessons are to be learned?

One thing he has in common with us: note the compass worn on his watch strap in the pics of him on the new york times site.
Apparently casio worn by an arab screams 'Al Quaeda' at airports.
You don't stay the most wanted man on earth and free for a decade without being prepared.
Note also how they conceal he lost his right arm in the cave bombings.
Draw your own conclusions about why the videos of him making threats (using an actor with both arms) were faked.
qjs

Buried at sea, so no one could dig him up....

The new Photoshop and Illustrator artists at the Whitehouse certainly will be busy again..

This news is on every forum that I frequent. It is important enough of an event that it has become appropriate for just about any forum.

I am extremely thankful for the hard work and sacrifice of the members of our Armed Forces, Intelligence community, our allies and anyone else who have made this happen and have been protecting our freedom since 9.11.01... starting with the Passengers of Flight 93.

Thank You to each and every member of the Armed Forces, our Intelligence agencies and our allies that allowed this to happen. Thank you for giving Usama Bin Laden the opportunity to be judged by the appropriate Judge.

I thought this photo I took yesterday seems appropriate...

FDNY Engine 6 was buried in the rubble under the WTC, hooked up to the Standpipe system... 4 members of Engine 6 were among the 343 FDNY members killed on 9-11-01. Rest in Peace Brothers... today your murders have been partially vindicated. (This was taken at the memorial exhibit in the New York State Museum)

He is... he is being judged by the ultimate Judge.

I'm pleased/relieved we got him, but this isn't V-T Day.

Bravo to all the troops and intelligence operatives whose actions recently and in the past decade, made bin Laden's demise at U.S. hands possible.

Nope, the media keeps mentioning the end... this ends nothing, just a victory that hopefully demoralizes al qaeda on the eve of their "spring offensive".

Or perhaps stoke rebellion and revolution in the Kingdom of Saud, much like Libya, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen etc... The timing of this announcement is impeccable as the potential for a US debt default looms.

Been noticing lots of heavy lift and transport aircraft flying in formation over Scotland recently making the USA, middle east track.

I debated whether to post on this topic, but since someone beat me to it, here are my thoughts:

I always regarded Bin Laben very personally - as in he tried to kill ME, and did kill people I knew. I don't believe in celebrating death, but I have found myself quite emotional about the news.

In many ways my experiences on 9/11/01 are what led me here to ETS. The only reason for my survival that day was luck. Yes, I made good decisions, but people standing only yards away from me at the time the second plane hit - who had made the same decisions as me - were killed or maimed for life. I didn't like knowing that I owed my survival to luck, so I sought to educate myself, and found this great resource. (Note, there was little if anything I could have done that morning to take luck out of the equation, and I've made peace with that. Sometimes you will find yourself in a situation where either your time has come or it hasn't. Finding yourself in the middle of one of the largest terror attacks in history is certainly one of those situations.)

To bring things full circle, this morning I reminded my wife to keep her situational awareness up during her commute into NYC. No headphones on while in crowded places, etc. And we reviewed her plans for getting home to me and the kids if something bad should happen. She's much more prepared to handle adversity now, thanks to all I have learned on this forum. I hope she does not have to put the knowledge to use.

May God bless our troops, give our leaders this wisdom to navigate through treacherous times, and give our first responders the strength they will need to respond to whatever retaliation is thrown our way.

I lost friends and spent most of the day trying to find out if my mother had been killed (she wasn't). It's appropriate to take this personally.

The original post is a troll post in my opinion, or the original poster has got to be a bit more plugged in before he focuses on anymore equipment to survive. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. Consider it tough love.

This is the Campfire and the original post is not offensive or provocative or otherwise disallowed by the ETS rules, so I don't see a problem with it nor do I think it's a troll. If any of the responses become offensive or overly heated, then that's on them, not the OP.

As someone who experienced 9/11 from the streets of Manhattan, all I can say is that it's a good thing that bin Laden got what was coming to him.

A lot of people are going to be on heightened alert. LEO, utilities, military personell, civilian defense workers, etc. I remember taking a course not long after 9/11 detailing how to minimize your potential as a target. I wonder if anybody is getting refresher on it.

I am from the Middle East, especifically, I am from Saudi Arabia

I really wish you all could read Arabic and have a quick look at our papers and news sites today... Many people expressed relief and happiness for his death. We have been often grilled because a few Arabs were shown dancing after 911 .. well, it seems that more Arabs are dancing today, and I just wish those who held us all responsible .. could see it for themselves.

BTW, some are skeptical about what really happened. I , for one see the story full of holes. For example, they showed the bodies of Saddam sons to the media , why not Osama body ?? Why throw it in the sea ? Sounds strange !! If they left the body or gave it to some Islamic country or organization for burial, that will authenticate the story. But .. politics is always like that .. full of holes and puzzles.

In any case, I don't think his death will change much because Al-Qaeda is not a tightly controlled organization taking every order from their leader. He has become a symbolic figure more or less, and his death may bring even more disasters from his bloody fans around the world. Add to that, anyone can pay commandos-for-hire to do any dirty job and stick any label on it.

IMHO, there is a relevant part of this event to ETS members : It is time to re-check the BOBs. I am rechecking mine , and increasing my emergency cash by a few 1000s.

Enemies of the state are very often buried at sea. No one wants the grave site to become a shrine.

There is Al-Jazeera in English,though I haven't tapped that source,I figure the news is the news,& If it is true,I'm Elated!Some sources indicated he was given an Islamic burial but I have never heard of an Islamic burial at Sea,Correct me if I'm wrong,But an Islamic burial consists of laying the body in the direction of Mecca,Kinda hard to do underwater,maybe in the Red Sea,since Mecca is closer to there.My personal thought is,they Lopped his head off for DNA analysis & Proof to our President,that it actually was Usama Bin Laden!& Napalmed the body or fed the fish in The Indian Ocean via a LAPES drop!I know one thing for sure,America's SOG people are Not,Pay as you go Commandos,They work Purely from the Heart!

I understand

But in case of something like Al-Qaeda, you would love to see who is paying frequent visits to such a shrine .. right ??

It will be a great source of info, wouldn't you say ?

I see no value to bringing Bin Laden's remains back to the US or showing images on TV. After all, we are not barbarians and do not parade the bodies of our captured/vanquished enemies through the streets. Which is more than I can say for the feral swine who claim to be followers of God's will. In any event, those who wish to disbelieve will continue to do so regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

I'm sure that our professional and well disciplined military forces treated Bib Laden's remains with as much respect as possible given the circumstances,and that no pork products found their way into any orifices before he was buried.

Wish we could have traded OBL for OBG...

Shot twice in the head.

I went to an exibition of press photographs that included a picture of a woman and a man falling to their deaths, hand in hand, from the twin towers.

Looked at it, and came to the realisation that this is a war to the knife.

I vowed there and then that if OBL fell into my hands, He'd be shown that picture. Just before I shot him twice.

About a meter lower.

True.



It may, but it is also reasonable to assume that the hardenened fanatics capable of such things have already been doing their outmost to bring disaster. Being more motivated (if that is at all possible) doesn't make them more capable than they already are.

In short, I doubt this will make much difference one way or the other for the threath level of terrorist attacks.

I'm not displeased that he is dead. It is IMHO, a good thing but I don't think it is a time to celebrate or crow. It needed to be done, but you don't celebrate taking out the trash.

The bad news is that retaliation is likely. The good news is that much of this retaliation is likely to be small and unplanned opportunistic attacks and mostly overseas. Any planned attacks will tend to have had their schedules advanced. This is good because a rushed attack is more likely to be sloppily executed and easier to catch.

The key to terrorism is that it doesn't disrupt your life as much as it causes you to disrupt your own life. Either way, if it disrupts your life it has done its intended job. So, be observant but carry on.

One thing this report makes me think about is how readily people (myself included) often interpret reports at face value and how that can lead to questionable conclusions and actions.

In other words, it is really difficult to not take at face value the news/prevailing sentiment/propaganda.

A version, perhaps, of Stop-Think-Observe-Plan-Proceed?

What reminded me of this lesson again?

Guardian UK article on Photoshopped OBL image: http://bit.ly/mC0WNO

Good topic, Frisket! Sensationalism aside, it raises a number of things to consider, not the least of which is how this is going to affect people's personal mindsets about preparedness.

I listened to a news report about it with interest tonight. The repoter was interviewing a bunch of people in NYC, and many are letting their guard down. They have already reverted back to their pre-911 mentalities and MOs.

9/11 got a lot of people to become more aware and prepare. I don't buy into living in fear, but all the reasons for putting that guard up are still valid, as they were before 9/11. Call it situational awareness, being prepared, common sense or whatever, it's still important and about way more than one guy, one group or one threat such as terrorism in general.

911 also made me aware that you can be minding your own business and suddenly find yourself in the middle of trouble !!! It is an important part of preparedness to know what is going on around you even if YOU were not part of it, or even if you were agisnt it. Take for example the position of war in Iraq and Afghanistan . Some Americans supported it and some thought otherwise. But being Americans, BOTH should be careful and not lower their guards because some violent fanatics will shoot first and think later. We, in the Middle East, also had to be careful too when we travel abroad, becuse others cannot tell which Middle Eastern guy is with or against OBL.

We saw the images of the dead OBL and heard about the photoshopping thing. It just makes us wonder about the whole story. And if you add throwing the body in the sea, it makes us wonder even more.

Yesterday, our capitals's newspaper (Riyadh) had this headline ( The World without Osama Bin Laden). I hope we are not too relieved yet and lower our guard too soon. I still believe he was no more than a symoblic figure and his sleeping cells don't need him for their criminal activities.

Prepping wise, it is always wise to assume the worst and be prepared for it.

UncleGoo , you remind us of OBG. Bless his soul

I am sure he is in a safer place.
At least he isn't worried about OBL and his clan

I think my feelings about this can be summed up with one word- concerned.

Great, we killed him. One less medium-large evil in the world. His machine is still out there and operating. And since we dumped his body in the ocean, Osama will be spotted about as often as Elvis. If only we'd bothered to bring out at least his head, at least then we'd have proof.

Chisel ... the story does appear to have some holes in it. However, I do think that President is telling the truth and that Bin Laden is dead. Let us hope that the authorities in Washington DC clarify a number of important questions, and show definite proof that the body belonged to Bin Laden. They have enough records and information that they should be able to do this. So let's see what happens this next week.

Pete #2

I don't think there is any point to lying about it. The down side to lying outweighs any benefit.

And no, they don't have any duty, or really have any up side, to offering proof. As an American citizen you can demand proof, free speech and an inalienable right to scream at the wind, but they have no obligation or reason to offer any. Those who are likely to buy the idea that they are telling the truth already have; those who are not, will not accept any proof offered.

Earlier generation understood this.

Credibility is about telling the truth simply and directly and moving on. It is not increased by providing details and providing proof to every point. Explaining yourself undermines credibility by implying your word isn't good enough. People really don't need, or even really want, to know what goes into making the sausages. The crowd 'just asking' are pretty much all about having their target jump through flaming hoops to demean them and as light entertainment.

It doesn't matter whether the authorities are lying about it or not, the weight of the lie or the truth is what matters. The main line news media has reported the narrative of the story and has accepted it unquestioningly. The majority of the readership and the viewer of the electronic media will accept it without question. The Aspartame helps with the memory hole effect and helps with the suggestibility.

As for the Elvis comparison, the Lee Harvey Oswald analogy would be a little more realistic, apparently when he was dug up he was missing his head. Identity and identity theft are the stock and trade of the terrorist and counter terrorist.

'Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.' O'Brien.

Take for example Mr Black, a previous deputy director of the NSA, who apparently attended the U.S. Army Language School Monterey, California (Russian language) in 1957, i.e. the same school that Lee Harvey Oswald attended around the same time before going on to work within the SAGE (Semi Autonomous Ground Environment). Its definitely a small world!!

Mr Black and Lee Harvey Oswald

As you can see its very easy to make up a ridiculous conspiracy theory, which is the stock in trade of the phys ops professional and the amateur. And yes there are phy ops pros and amateurs out there.

Of course with this story;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...es-Twitter.html

it really goes to show that some folks just aren't paying attention, which makes both the professional and amateur phy ops personnel despair. What I really want to know is why the He Man and the Masters of the Universe cartoon had a PhD in Psychology on rolling credits of the cartoon.

Wow ... you read a whole lot into a very simple situation. Does your head hurt keeping all those contradictory story lines straight?

So you capture the mastermind of evil itself, and you don't interrogate him? Also, every single detail of the original story has now changed, no firefieght, only 1 guy with a weapon in a guest house, no wife sheilding, no weapon, etc. etc. If they were watching this operation live as reported, why would they give such a conflicting report? Are they intentionally trying to encourage conspiracy theories?? Geez. Just say what happened already.

A full debriefing takes time. In a stress filled situation everyone has a different idea of what happened. Just ask your colleagues to list what order people came to work this morning and you'll see 'just say what happened' can't be done.
The USA condemns other nations for displaying dead american servicemen; how could it then display OBLs?
And it would dispel no conspiracy theories. Only last week we were told the production of a long form of birth certificate would settle the birther issue; as soon as it was produced it was sudddenly worthless.
Besides if OBL was alive there'd be a video of him reading last nights news items out by now. You think Al Qaeda wouldn't take a chance to totally discredit the USA?
qjs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...n-compound.html

CIA Director Panetta now says the live video feed failed for the entirety of the compound invasion.

Fortunately the mission proceeded more smoothly than the WH pr campaign.

Once again forum members are hitting the roof over imaginary wrongs:

>So you capture the mastermind of evil itself , and you don't >interrogate him?

No one but yourself is saying this happened. Please provide details of the white house briefing where it was said OBL was captured.

>Fortunately the mission proceeded more smoothly than the WH pr campaign.

There is no WH pr campaign. Which bit of 'A full debriefing takes time' don't you understand?
qjs

There's always a WH pr campaign, no matter the POTUS.

If you don't understand that, you know very little about American politics.

>There's always a WH pr campaign, no matter the POTUS.

You are right. I phrased that badly. What I meant is that we can expect the facts to come out gradually. Something said initially later being denied, is evidence that debriefs take time; not them being unable to get their facts right.
qjs

I was going to stay out of this discussion, but must respectively disagree with you on your position. While detailed debriefing may reveal additional “facts” or points of view, the overall sense of the mission, with the vast majority of the “facts” well known by those in the position of interacting with the media and public. Whenever there is major shifting of the “facts” one needs to look at the information being released with a healthy degree of skepticism. Many of us here have been involved with military, law enforcement or other disaster response operations to know that what actually happened is often at odds with the official line and has nothing to do with the process of debriefing.

While there may be some variations due to the fog of war, the individuals involved in this operation were well trained professionals who are quite capable of providing detailed objective reports. Additionally, I can almost guarantee that much if not all of the operation was video recorded and those videos have been reviewed dozens of times for comparison with verbal and written reports.

Just my 2 cents-
Pete

>Many of us here have been involved with military, law enforcement >or other disaster response operations to know that what actually >happened is often at odds with the official line and has nothing >to do with the process of debriefing.

I agree. But in this case the facts that keep being released are to the disadvantage of the administration. If it was all lies they'd have stuck with the first version.
qjs

Respectfully disagree. Just trying to understand the logic. In my (uninformed) opinion, if you have the opportunity to capture the world's greatest intelligence asset, you do everything possible to find out what he knows. Lets not forget, he was largely responsible for our foreign/domestic policy for the last 10 years. And you're not going to find out what he knows? That seems either really stupid or completely incompetent.

Signed,
The professional armchair quarterback

It's sad to think, but I bet they consider him a martyr.

After all this noise, I hope no one sees him walking the street somewhere.

Sue