One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies.

UPDATED 24 FEB 2011

Leon Alberti, a famous Renaissance artist and architect, defined beauty as that point where nothing can be taken away or added except for the worse. Some would say – this writer included – that when it comes to outdoors kit the humble US Army Canteen Cup comes pretty close to meeting Alberti’s definition. It is simplicity itself, but with so many uses. You can drink from it, eat from it, boil water in it, cook in it, bake in it, dig with it. When I was in the field with the Guard, I used one of mine (I carried 2-3) as my shaving/washing bowl, and once even used one to help drain the oil from the engine of an M577. (Yes, I washed it after.)

Besides being a multi-tasker, the US Army Canteen Cup is bloody bombproof. There is good reason it has changed little in 101 years.

In the US, the Army Canteen and Cup are almost iconic when it comes to a personal water carrier for Scouting, hiking, hunting or camping. Plastic Nalgene-type bottles are changing that, but the canteen/cup that hydrated our military for a century is still a first choice for many, be it for a day hike, a camping trip, or bug-out-bag. Plus, they are cheap. Even the real ones.

Yes, I know; other militaries make cups for their canteens. But most of these come in two, less Alberti-esque, categories: Plastic – nice for drinking but useful for little else; and, Tinfoil – thin aluminum that will bend in half if you stare at it hard enough. The old East German canteen cup takes the cup (!) for being the most absurdly useless – a painted Hershey’s Kiss wrapper at best, it holds about 3-4 ounces with teensy wire handles. It looks like you’re off to high tea at The Savoy on the cheap. No wonder The Wall fell. Capitalism, of course, provides after-market solutions for non-US grunts to fill this void - most notably the BCB ‘Crusader Cup’ and accessories.

As long-time ETS’ers know, cups, mess kits, and stoves will put that, “Ooo… Shiny stuff!”, gleam in my eyes - a gleam that returned recently with two bits of kit that make the US Army canteen cup (remember Alberti’s definition) even more beautiful: Heavy Cover’s new Stainless Steel Lid for the canteen cup, and the new Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com.


HEAVY COVER

Heavy Cover has made a rubberized cover for the canteen cup for a couple of years. I’ve used one and found it is great for sealing up a newer cup (the ones with the ‘butterfly’ handles), but is a bit leaky with my older (1944) cup. I tried using it as a cover during boiling, and, well… I had a bit of a sticky situation. I still use my other one (they sent me two), but only as a cover to keep things warm after cooking or to keep campsite gunk from getting into the cup’s contents.

Heavy Cover recently started selling a Stainless Steel Cover for the canteen cup, something they have been promising for some time.





The top and skirt of the cover are heavy gauge stainless steel, and the top handle is a heavy gauge steel wire - large enough to grasp with gloves on and moves easily. The underside is polished, the makers claim, to be used as a signal mirror. Nice idea, but… They have never seen my field cleaning procedures. It won’t be polished for long.

First impression out of the box is the stainless steel cover seems as bombproof as the canteen cup itself. It is heavy, coming in at 5 ounces on it’s own.

But does it work? Short answer is, yes. Darn well. Using both my home-made stove (cliffSTOVE 2.0) and Rob’s Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com, I cut 1.5 - 2 minutes minimum off uncovered boiling times with both stoves (I did four boils each).

The cover fits snugly, but not too tight, on both the newer style GI cup and the older, handle-folded-under-the-cup variety. It goes on and comes off easily. But unlike HC’s soft cover, this one does not seal the cup. It wasn’t designed to. The cover has sets of small holes on either end of the skirt for draining, which allows one to drain veggies or pasta, or make ‘GI coffee’ without (as many) grounds in it. I made some of the latter as a test – boil water, throw some grounds in the cup, stir, cover, steep, and (cover on) pour into another cup. OK, gourmet French press, it ain’t. But it’s far better than the original “crunchy” variety, or those tasteless freeze-dried “coffee” packets you picked up at the hotel on your last vacation.

The other thing I like is the cover does not stick too far out from the lips of the canteen, which allows still my stove’s grill/bail to be used as a bail for over a fire.


with my bail/grille installed

My one criticism is where do you carry it? You can stick it in the bottom of the canteen cover, upturned, against the bottom of the cup. But if you have a stove stand about your cup (e.g., CanteenShop.com’s Stove Stand), it won’t fit. You could turn it over, but then the lips of the skirt are face down and could be bent if you bang around your canteen/cup/cover as much as I do. A small, but solvable, problem.

I have only one suggested improvement for the Heavy Cover folks: Make one set of the drain holes smaller and more numerous. For making less crunchy coffee.

The stainless steel cover is $20.00, and can be ordered directly from Heavy Cover.


CANTEENSHOP.COM

Since my Guard days I have been trying to come up with the perfect Natick-style stove stand. Several of my attempts are posted elsewhere on ETS. I’m a designer by disposition and by trade, so leaving well enough alone is not in my nature. I thought I had reached my Alberti moment with my cliffSTOVE 2.0… until now.


my most recent cliffSTOVE 2.0

Rob at Canteenshop.com has come up with a new canteen cup Stove Stand he is currently selling at his site that I think beats my home-made, hours-fiddling-in-the-workshop model:





Canteenshop.com’s offering is a stainless steel stand which looks like an upturned canteen cup, sans handles, with holes drilled through the top and on the sides. Four of the holes on the top are dimpled outward, to allow whatever you put on top – cup, mess kit pan, or pot – to sit about 1/8” off the surface to let the heat and flames flow evenly around.

My first try with Rob’s Stove Stand left me disappointed - 17 minutes and it did not boil two cups of water. I had seen his videos showing much better results, and was looking for some technical reason for this failure when it the obvious hit. I used a Trangia I had loaded with isopropyl alcohol a while back to do a stove presentation for Scouts. (Pause for moment while writer smacks self on forehead. Again.) Lesson here is CHECK! and RECHECK! and…

So the other weekend I ran another test, and… Rob’s Stove Stand is now my new canteen cup companion.

Both the Canteenshop.com Stove Stand and my stove stand design fit around a standard US Army canteen cup. Both can boil 500ml of water, using the HC lid and Trangia stove, in 9-10 minutes (no wind, 45 degrees F). Both can take more than a canteen cup for cooking – say, a mess kit pan or larger pot. Both can take a variety of fuels – alcohol stoves, wood, Trioxaine bars and Esbit tabs. Both are versatile. Rob claims his stand can be used as a colander (I can buy that), a berry picker (down here in Louisiana the food we pick usually has teeth, so I don’t know) and as a micro-barbie (one shrimp at a time, I guess.).


Canteenshop.com Stove Stand in action


with a UK mess tin

What made me change from my own design is simple - Rob’s Stove Stand is (remember that Alberti guy?) a bloody simple design. My design takes three components in order to work, Rob’s has one. That’s two fewer parts to keep up with, and potentially lose. Mine is lighter, but Rob’s is bombproof. So if I can reduce complexity, gain durability, and maintain the same performance, then why not?

That’s the good. Now for the downside. First, Rob’s Stove Stand is heavy. At 5 7/8 ounces of heavy-gauge stainless steel, it’s almost like adding another canteen cup in weight (8 1/8 ounces). Because it’s steel, the top of the stove can get glow-in-the-dark hot and, unlike an aluminum stand, it takes quite a while to cool down. Not a big deal if you aren’t in a hurry, but it could be if you are. Also, Rob’s stove stand looks susceptible to reduced performance in wind, which my design has proven not to be. (Didn’t have any wind to test with so I can’t say for sure. Sorry.)

And finally, when it’s packed in your canteen cover, the Stove Stand's four upturned dimples can abrade the bottom of your canteen cover over time. (I mentioned the abrading issue this to Rob, and he says he was aware of it and is looking at ideas to remedy the problem.)

All in all, the downsides do not outweigh the many good points of the design, in my opinion.

Another major advantage with Canteenshop.com’s Stove Stand for ETS’ers is this – Send Rob 20 bucks and he'll have one to you in a few days. If you want a cliffSTOVE 2.0, you’ll have to buy the parts and make it yourself. Cliff don’t take orders.

So in conclusion, I recommend both the Heavy Cover stainless steel cover, and the Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com. Yes, they are somewhat pricey for add-ons to a $10.00 cup. But they work – they enhance performance when cooking with a canteen cup, and both seem durable enough to not fail on you. In a crisis situation, that has a price all it’s own.

UPDATE 24FEB2011: Tonight we had some strong wind (it had nothing to do with my Mexican lunch; promise) so I put the Stove Stand to the test. Wow. It held up amazingly well given the gusts. I put a litre in the pot portion of a Swedish mess kit (stainless steel), and the more the wind blew the more flames engulfed the pot. The Trangia stove ran out of juice after 22 minutes (not unexpected with the wind), and the pot almost boiled. And I mean almost. I think the wind cooled down the pot, which, along with the reduced stove time, worked against the rolling bubbles. Had I used a secondary windscreen there would have been a litre of boiling water. No doubt.

Excellent write up on a subject near and dear to my heart (stoves). Looks like good kit albeit heavy as all get out. They need a Ti version.

Interestingly, the US Army has found that very few soldiers are carrying the canteen cup these days, mainly because very few soldiers are carrying canteens. The Camelbak craze has swept the army. Even the "E" version of the canteen (collapsible, like the 2 quart canteens have been for years) is no longer popular from what I've read. A rather quirky twist of fate for so loyal a companion (the canteen cup). I'm not sure that the US Army has fielded a replacement -- or that they even have on in mind. A nesting Camelbak cup hardly seems practical, lol.

HJ

Very nice writeup on an oldie but goodie hiking standby that is still useful for some situations. There actually is a titanium version(s). Various ti cups fit deftly around a Nalgene water bottle, or even better, a recycled quart beverage bottle, and give you the same capability at lighter weight. My setup is powered by the same Trangia stove, which is close to being a timeless classic.

Thank you for this information, first time I've looked at the canteenshop.com website. Be Prepared To Survive recently began carrying that stove stand, too.

http://www.bepreparedtosurvive.com/Stove...20Stove%20Stand

I already have so many other options for carrying water and cooking but the canteen's esteemed and long history is alluring.

Nice thanks for the info,

Lee

I carried a canteen cup even after I quit carrying canteens (and I caught hell for that, as it was SOP to carry two. Try explaining to your 1SG why a camelback was better before they became issue.)

The cup has many uses, least of which is to drink from. The one thing I don't like is that it cools the liquid too quickly. I'm going to be painting mine black and see if that helps any. I also have a stove - cheap aluminum cup shaped, carried it on my other canteen, then w/ the cup). I found that by canting the cup so it doesn't fit directly helped when trying to seperate the two.

Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!
Bravo, sir. That was a mighty fine post...which will soon cost me more money.

I'm starting to understand you stove guys. It's not that you want a lot of stoves and such, you just want one better than what you currently have...

-Blast

Oh, but that one over there has this feature and that one over there has that feature... just one more...

I can quit any time.

HJ

Blast:

Just doing my part to stimulate the economy. You didn't need that cash anyway.

.....cliff
(like, who else?)

Thanks for the writeup cliff, I really like that stainless lid. Surplus canteen cup is what what I used since I first started camping. I used to just cover the top with aluminum foil and place it on the fire coals. Boils in no time. Don't carry it anymore but its perfect for the car kit.

JBMatt... a black cup will radiate heat away quicker

That was an XLNT Review! I was trying to come up with a Multi-use for the Heavy Cover,to justify it's means over Alum.Foil,Not to mention Where on a Canteen Cover,Is it going to be Stowed? or Is that the Next $20 item in line for this Set-Up,A Possibly extended Canteen Cover,to allow for the HeavyCover to fit on the bottom,of the canteen cover!Possible other use's for the Heavy Cover:Bacon/Burger Press,Bug/Scorpion Smasher,Cowbell alternative for Gitfiddle Campfire Tunes,Sear Plate for cauterizing wounds,Set on edge in the dirt/sand for use as a Multiple Launch Platform for Bottle Rockets,or Incense holder for Spiritual backcountry shindigs????

You can get acrylic covers for canteen cups in the UK. obviously not as tough but you can see if it's boiling.
Anyone know how well the gel cookers for canteen cups work?
And does anyone sell the insulating foam the jetboil cup is surrounded with to fit a canteen cup.
Or would it catch fire?
qjs

Neoprene of that type that the Jetboil cozies are made of would work OK depending on what type of heating you were doing. Open flame (such as a wood fire) would probably be bad although you might be able to slide the cozy off during heating and then slide it back on afterwards.

The problem I see with using a cozy on a canteen cup is the cup's handles. You'd have to cut out a pretty big swath of the cozy in order to fit it onto the cup. I wonder how stable it would be although perhaps you could have a velcro attachment that fastened above the handles once the cozy was put into place. Seems like kind of a kludge.

HJ

Cliff,

Great review, I may have to dig out my GI rig.

HJ,

How about an old style cup with the swing handle, take off the cozy, swing the handle then put it back on. Avoid those new fangled contraptions.

The best,

Jerry

There you go, Jerry, good thought. I put it in the context of the one I have (the one with the "butterfly" handles), but the older style swing handle might indeed work better with a neoprene cozy.

Let's see, we've got our neoprene cozy, we can add a lid with a drinking hole -- what the heck? We've just created the yuppie canteen cup.

HJ

[quote=Hikin_Jim Let's see, we've got our neoprene cozy, we can add a lid with a drinking hole -- what the heck? We've just created the yuppie canteen cup.

HJ [/quote]

Only if it comes with Starbucks instant in it!!!

Jerry

Great post, Cliff!

How did you attach your bail? I didn't see any holes in your cup or anything on it. Is it just a case of my old eyes?

"...a black cup will radiate heat away quicker"

Why? I've never heard that. What is the physics of it?

Sue

Sue,

Blast or some other real scientist may need to correct the specifics, but basically it has to do with the wavelengths of radiation (such as light or heat) reflected or absorbed. For example, if something appears blue, it's actually absorbing other colors of the spectrum but reflecting blue. White is reflecting all colors approximately equally. Black is absorbing all colors (wavelengths).

Since black absorbs all wavelengths, it also radiates in all wavelengths and therefore tends to radiate heat away more quickly. Try this: go out on a hot sunny day in a black coat. Then try a white coat. Most people will experience the black coat as significantly warmer because it will absorb heat from the sun whereas the white coat will reflect it.

Another experiment is to put two objects of equal temperature, one black, one white, into a refrigerator and chart the decline in temperature. All else being equal, the black one should cool slightly faster.

HJ

[quote=Hikin_JimBlast or some other real scientist may need to correct the specifics, but basically it has to do with the wavelengths of radiation (such as light or heat) reflected or absorbed. HJ [/quote]

HJ,

You have been holding out on us, that is a very good explaination of the process. Are you sure you are not a closet scientist.

The best,

Jerry

Sue.. what Hikin_Jim eloquently stated.. the term is "black body radiation"... that's why your car's radiator, and the heat exchange coil on the back of your refrigerator/freezer is painted black

Well, my background is engineering which required a bit of hard science back when.

HJ

Well talk of the devil and he'll bite you! Just found a review of a 7" high one pint kelly kettle with a neoprene sleeve in March's Backpacker Magazine. Good idea to have the kettle double as a water bottle. But never understood the kelly kettle idea. Isn't a lot of heat wasted, going straight up the chimney? Do they work?
qjs


The double walled mini kettle is here- The mKettle! The mKettle is proven in the field and recommended by outdoor enthusiasts who are used to cycling, canoeing/kayaking, camping, or backpacking light where weight, size, and function are critical.

mKettles are In Stock and Shipping! Order directly or from one of our partners.

Designed and Made in the UK. The photo is by Ryan Jordan, Bozeman, MT, USA- Thank you.

First, the principle is sound. The Kiwis (New Zealanders) have been using Thermettes since the 20's. The British got the idea from the Kiwis, and produced the Sirram Volcano. The Sirram Volcano was imported into Ireland where it became the Kelly Kettle. The Irish claim to have come up with the idea. A wee bit o' the Irish blarney methinks. All that to say that it's a proven design. The central chimney causes a draft which causes hotter, more efficient burning. Yes, some heat is wasted, but wood stoves generally do have some waste.

Second, though, the mKettle is a blatant rip off. The mKettle is a copy of the Backcountry Boiler, the creation of Devin Montgomery. There is speculation that the "M" in "mKettle" actually stands for "Montgomery Kettle," the original name of the Backcountry Boiler. The mKettle is being aggressively marketed. The Backcountry Boiler is just being sold by Mr. Montgomery, a law student in (I think) Pennsylvania. It's a shame that superior marketing appears to be depriving the innovative Mr. Montgomery of his intellectual property.

I'm sure that the people behind the mKettle will have a different slant on things -- although they have been notably silent about the issue.

The mKettle appears to be a solidly made product although it weighs more than the real Backcountry Boiler. The mKettle is also less expensive, although I personally won't buy one for ethical reasons. I support innovators and the type of cottage industry that Mr. Montgomery represents. I do not approve of someone copying Mr. Montgomery's work (even going so far as to call him to get details of the manufacturing under the guise of being a potential buyer) and then putting a cheap knock off on the market.

For the record, I have no affiliation with Mr. Montgomery or his product nor do I have any affiliation with the mKettle. The preceding has been strictly my opinion; I own it as such. I encourage others to investigate the facts for themselves.

HJ

I want something like this http://www.anchorhocking.com/prodd_5048_cat_23_3_piece_set.html but stainless steel and with the markings pressed into it and a lid. For those recipes that say add 1 and 1/2 cup water, etc I can just fill to the line. I found a straight sided one but its hard to stir.

I have a kettle similar to the Kelly and it does work very well. With a normal billy only the bottom of the pot receives the heat and this head is dispersed via convection through the pot. With the Kelly style there is a huge surface area of pot exposed to the heat, so it boils more quickly and requires less fuel.

After using my kettle I wrap a handful of dry sticks in newspaper and stuff it into the base of the kettle and pop it back into the bag. Then next time I pull it out and light it and it will boil very quickly. Mine holds about 1.5 l. Its great for a quick cuppa in the mornings when we don’t want to light a big fire or bring out a stove. But it is quite bulky and heavy compared to other stoves, so we don’t bring it everywhere – depends on your circumstances.

Incidentally, back in the not so old olden days making a Kelly style kettle was a standard trade school activity for apprentices, so they were around for a long time before they were commercialized. Once tradies were out on a job, they could have a break and make a cuppa !

I, too, am a stove, mess kit gear hound and enjoyed your excellent post. In response to your suggestion that Nalgene containers may replace the ergonomically shaped standard plastic G.I. canteens that nest in our beloved canteen cups I offer the following:

A Nalgene canteen that fits the G.I. canteen cup! Bought two from Amazon myself.



[url=http://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-Tritan-Oasis-Canteen-Re-Imagined/dp/B001RJTK9U][/url]

http://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-Tritan-Oasis-Canteen-Re-Imagined/dp/B001RJTK9U

And a question if I may. Does anyone know if a canteen cup will nest within that stove stand from Rob at Canteenshop.com? Furthermore, will it all fit in a standard canteen cover?

The Kelly Kettle/Sirram Volcano/Thermette type design has been around for nearly 100 years and is a pretty proven design. It works well with wood fires, a bit less so when mounted on a stove.

HJ

Will a crusader cup with a lid work, It has markings in litres ect.

Lee

There's a local store that sells these. The handle looks like it maybe won't get too hot to lift away from the fire, but at least is capable of several methods of handle mods and improvisations (such as simply using a fork within the handle loop for a cooler grip). Its full capacity is 2 cups at the rim, with half-cup graduations. With straight sides, this should make quarter-cup estimates much easier than with inconsistent progression with flared sides.

Any way, if you're looking for something a bit inexpensive and certainly multipurpose, and can improvise a pot lid (a tin can end with a self-made knob on top?), I suggest it.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q...ed=0CNIBEPMCMAo