Dogs Vs. chickens

So...some dogs - a pit bull and a small german shepherd - just came into my yard and killed most of my chickens! The dogs had tags, but my wife (I am not home) wasn't willing to approach them, even though they seemed "friendly". The dogs are gone now, but I'm not sure if i should advise my wife to:

A) shoot the dogs on sight if they come back
B) call the cops to complain and file a report
C) drive around and try to find the owners and tell them to pay up for my hens
D) all of the above


Hmmmm

In addition to your above list, I would contact Animal Control. Also, it is possible that through the County Comptroller’s Office, you are entitled to some form of compensation. Many years ago I raised rabbits for food, a pack of dogs killed all but one of my rabbits and the county partially compensated me for the loss of food/live stock. In some areas, owners of large animals (cattle, sheep, etc.) or other small animals (chickens, rabbits) that are raised for food can compensated if their livestock are killed by free roaming dogs.

Pete

probably illegal - discharge of a firearm w/i city limits


yep. get it documented. maybe there are others who have had the same experience with the same animals.


confrontations may have unintended consequences. as well as personal safety issues.

unsettling to say the least.

good luck.

My first order response would be to shoot them.

But people get irrational about pets and don't often seem to be able to maintain a handle on a need to control their pets or lose them. When it comes to a dog getting shot it is, for them, property and how dare you 'take' their property. But when it comes to responsibility, owners being responsible for what their property does, they turn around and claim the dogs are not property and have free will. Dogs get to be property or independent actors. Which one being determined after the fact according to whichever is easiest for the owner.

Of course once you shoot the dog/s they immediately become the bestest dogs ever. Canine saints they were. Never hurt anyone or anything. Even if the day before the owner was bragging about how viscous they are and how they tear up people and other animals. It all changes once they are dead.

If you do shoot them the best bet is to quickly bury them, clean the gun, and claim ignorance when they come around asking about their lost dog/s.

B, C and shoot video and sue the owners in small claims court if they don't fully compensate you.

Shooting the dogs could escalate the situation, for a long time to come.

The non-confrontational way is SSS: Shoot, Shovel and Shut up.

Most areas (esp rural areas) have laws that say any hunter or homeowner or farmer can shoot on sight any predator that is chasing/harassing/killing wildlife, livestock or family pets. The killer-dog owner usually doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Talk to your local law enforcement and get some advice.

Ask around to see who the dogs might belong to.

Take photographs and date them.

Teach your wife how to shoot.

Sue

There's also A few of- What If's Too! What if my Son/Wife tried to Intervene the Attack,& the Dogs had the Upper-Hand?What if I set a Trap with a Few Chickens,Get it on Camera,& Shoot the Perps.!You live in a Rural enough area to Boil Maple sugar,You are Fairly Well-Known for Your Neighborhood Participations of Emergency Response,Volunteer Fire Dept Member,NRA-Member?I would have a Talk with the Local Constable,before any Action! Lawsuits are the Very last resort,unless you plan on moving Thereafter!

Not only is discharge of firearms perfectly legal here, it's commonplace. I live tucked into state game lands, i have a small rifle range in my back yard. I don't think there's a single day you won't hear some gunfire around here.

We have no police department, only state police. They couldn't care less about my chickens.

No worries there. She has her own shotgun.

Hmmm...

I thank everyone for the points. I think I'll be able to take care if this in a way that works out OK. Glad i don't actually need the chicken for my income.

Well,In that case,Rem.870 & #4 shot,Afterall,Tis' the Season for Mincemeat,:)

i change my opinion to go with susan.

s.s.s. sounds appropriate.

I would do a little digging to determine what the state/local law is on dogs 'hazarding' livestock. And pay particular attention to exactly how 'hazarding' is defined.

If the sheriff is called in by a dog owner, as unlikely as that might be, you want to start the interview with the right words. Words that make it clear that yes, the dog/s were clearly a legally 'substantial and imminent' threat that fulfills the requirements for use of lethal force.

Words that make it clear that you are very careful how you shoot, what you use to shoot, what direction you shoot, and making clear that you are well aware of sight lines and the potential for bullets to carry over considerable distances.

I'm not saying that you lie. I am saying that you need to be careful how your case is presented. Police are trained to testify in court in a manner that makes it perfectly clear that a checklist of requirements has been mentally checked off before they used force.

A good example of this is a homeowner that shoots someone in their home needs to avoid talking about wishing/desiring/acting to kill or punish the intruder and any reference to the intruders race of status. Those are part of what normally goes through the mind but the laws doesn't allow you to act on those thoughts so it is better if they are not mentioned. In most situations you are only allowed to use lethal force if you are in fear for your life and to eliminate that clear and imminent threat.

Get it clear in your mind that you were in fear of clear, imminent and credible threat, and have on the tip of your tongue a laundry list of signs of why you were in fear and how you acted only to eliminate this credible threat.

How you present the situation, particularly in the initial presentation to the law, makes the difference between a open and shut case, and a protracted investigation and seating of a grand jury that can mean you will need to spend thousands on a legal defense.

In the case of shooting dogs questions that you might want to have answers readily on hand for questions that include:

Have you lost livestock previously? Can you provide witnesses and/or documentation?

How do you know it was dogs? Witnesses, tracks, type of damage, documentation?

How do you know the dogs shot were an imminent threat and not just 'playing'? Signs, location, behavior. Witnesses, evidence, documentation?

How do you know these dog/s were not just wandering by? Location, proximity to livestock. Threatening behavior?

Keep these answers in mind. They both allow you to firmly assert your right to defend your livestock and to defend against any charges that may come your way. First impressions and presentation matter. Hopefully this is handled without the law and courts getting involved (SSS) but paying attention to there details, documenting them if possible, may pay off big if they do.

Mucho Mierda!Kudos to Sue,For narrowing ALL these words down to 3 Letters,The Most Logical&Practical Solution!

Both dogs had collars and tags. One had a SWEATER on. They are local, they are pets, and they were actively chasing and biting and killing the birds. We have a plan if it happens again.

This is an owner problem, not a dog problem. Dog owner's who are not responsible need to be taught a lesson from the proper authorities. Most any dog given the opportunity would chase chickens. The fault belongs with the owner of the dogs.

People with dogs need to keep them within a fence or on a leash period.

When a pair of German Shepherds that had shown aggression toward other neighbors (but not biting) showed up in my back-yard, my first instinct was to simply put the leader down. Fortunately for the dogs the nice lady at animal control convinced me to not shoot them -- instead the owner was warned by one of their officers that the dogs were a problem. Much better -- it avoided me getting into it with a neighbor and I was able to avoid shooting what was probably a nice dog given a more responsible owner.

There are live traps that can probably be used to capture the dogs; then the county can deal with them as strays and the owner can bail them out . . .

This makes a lot more long term sense than the SSS alternative. Building responsible relationships with your neighbors can come in handy in the next emergency.

Merry Christmas to all... I have really enjoyed the lively discourse on this forum during the past year.

The rule of thumb where I used to spend a lot of time upstate - shoot dog, take out to side of road, a bit away from the house (so they can't be sure it was you) and HANG the dead dog from the tree where the owner is sure to see it. Sends the message "another dog was found chasing livestock/deer - control your dog"

The dogs are victims, too-of a neglectful owner. That said, predators are predators. perhaps some defensive measures would help- a 4 foot page wire fence with a strand of barbed wire above and below seems to do a good job keeping feral hogs and dogs away from our new home in Tallahassee. Having 4 dogs helps, too. On the more devious side of things, dogs are pretty easy to bait and poison-human iron supplements, raisins and grapes seem to be good choices.
Wolf and coyote problems are more often solved with poison baits than gunfire, I believe.

Just Make Sure,Your Vehicle has plenty of PRESTONE,for the Radiator this Winter!

"...the owner was warned by one of their officers that the dogs were a problem. Much better -- it avoided me getting into it with a neighbor and I was able to avoid shooting what was probably a nice dog given a more responsible owner."

The problem is that some owners don't/won't/refuse to learn.

I told my neighbors that their dogs were getting into my yard. They put up a hotwire. Dogs stayed in their yard... until they discovered the owners had turned off the hotwire, then they returned. They chased my chickens, the law said they were probably just playing. One day I came home from work and one of the dogs was in my yard, playing with my dead chicken. All the chickens were dead but one. I called Animal Control, they said it wasn't their problem. The Sheriff's Dept said it wasn't their problem, either, but they would insist that Animal Control come out and collect the dog. The dog was picked up from AC the same day by the owners, and he was in my yard the following day, trying to get to my last surviving chicken.

Fortunately, they lost their house soon after, and moved away. Now they're probably someone else's problem.

No matter where you live, there will always be people who think the rules don't apply to them. If you think that someone else will the solve the problem for you, you will probably learn different... eventually.

Sue

I've remained silent on this problem until now.

I like dogs that are well behaved and not aggressive. I've got a scar that looks like Florida, 27 stitches, from an aggressive dog. If your dog is aggressive and in my yard, I don't play. Said scar giver is now pushing up daisies, courtesy Mr. Ruger.

Where I live they have strict leash laws. I figure if you are stupid enough to not train your dog, or restrain it, you and your dog (unfortunate for the dog) suffer the consequences.

In the military I learned several ways to deal with dogs. Some work right now - as in padding an arm, letting the dog bite that arm, and using a pressure/leverage hold to break the dog's neck - to several methods that take time to work - poisoning without using an overt poison. Circumstances dictate which method I will use, but let it be said - I will deal with a dog that is destroying my property. Pooping doesn't count, let's be real here.

It's a sad commentary that the pet has to suffer for the owner's stupidity, but it is my right to protect myself and my property.

Have you considered a fully enclosed coop/run? Helps keep out natural predators too.

For discussion's sake:

There seems to be disparity across regions and states regarding the exact definition of "needed shootin". The west and the south seem to come down on the side of defending the castle at all costs, with liability assumed by the trespasser. The northeast and midwest seem to divide liability between the defender and the aggressor, permitting escalation of defensive response in response to the level of offensive threat. I believe that I have heard of trespassers suing homeowners for excessive response. Chickens are probably property/livestock. Dogs are probably family/fur babies, particularly those wearing clothing. It would be easier to defend killing a dog that was attacking a person than killing one that was destroying property.
Disclaimer: Do not rely on nursing advice offered by a lawyer: do not rely on legal conjecture offered by a nurse, particularly from one whose avatar is a dog.

The best advice IMO in many cases, provided it is both legal and reasonable.

If you know the dog's owner, you might want to be more tolerant.

The thing is that this is 100% the dog owner's fault and if he won't deal with it in a realistic way by keeping his dogs under control, the consequences are his to deal with.

But no reason to get into an unnecessary confrontation either.

I agree that the owners are to blame. The owners won't do anything about it. It's too late for the dogs. Now that the dogs have done it once and found out that it was awesome, they ABSOLUTELY will do it again. Maybe not yours, but they'll do it again given the chance.

For me, the dogs wouldn't be given the chance to do it again.

What dogs?

Pellet gun. When I used this technique I was able to train the neighborhood dogs to stay the hell away from my yard, in a way that didn't lead to unpleasant neighbor relations.

Paintball gun? Red paint? That might give the owners something to think about...

Please don't suggest using antifreeze on pets. It takes quite a while for them to die (painfully) as their body shuts down. The pets are not the problem, the owners are the problem. If you have to kill them, kill them quickly and humanely, not with a slow-die poison.

Sue

I've had some luck breaking animals of unwanted intrusions and running them off with a Supersoaker loaded with a mix of sudsy ammonia and plain water. The detergent allows the mix to soak into fur and ammonia is relatively safe, temporary, and quite unpleasant.

I consider attacking livestock to be far more serious than what I would use a chemical deterrent for but it is an option.

This has also worked to run raccoons, rats and squirrels out of attics and stray dogs and cats out of crawl spaces.

Won't work anyway, most new antifreezes now have bittering agent added to prevent that from happening.