Women-Specific Gear & Concerns

I'd like to start a discussion as well as hearing what other women on the forum might recommend in the way of clothing, footwear, backpacks and what goes in them, bicycles, vehicle kits, etc, as well as security issues unique to us.

Female friends who hike and camp a lot swear that they can put up with a lot of the minor issues as long as they have a good sports bra.

Not being a woman, my experiences are somewhat irrelevant, but I'll toss in a couple of cents anyway.

If you're into backpacking - or for other reasons want to prepare yourself for having to haul a big pack - the two items you need to make sure really have a good fit are hiking shoes and a backpack. Backpack designed for men are quite often not that good for women because of different physiology.

In principle, the process of finding a backpack is the same for both genders: You try a lot of different backpacks until you find one that really fits YOU. Both in men and women there are lots of individual variations in shape, curves, strength and so on. It is just that as models are made for the male body, the search process usually goes quicker for the male. (Or would be quicker if not for the fact that most males are gear junkies...)

Invest time in searching. Ideally, you should try it going hiking over the weekend, but your local store may not be that forthcoming. At the very minimum, load it up in the store and walk some stair. And be sure you learn how to adjust it properly, otherwise the pack will never be comfortable.

Finding hiking shoes is similar: There are fewer female than male hiking shoes. Search and Thou shall find...

As for bikes, those are not gender specific. Unless you happen to ride a lot with long robes and such there is no need for a "female" kind of bicycle (the horizontal bar of the frame is traditionally lower to accommodate long skirts. When was the last time you ever saw someone biking with a long skirt?) Just get a good bike of a type that fits you and your needs.

With backpacks, "try before you buy". My store rented me a model and I used it on a trip before I finally purchased it. That was twenty years ago - comfortable then and comfortable now. You might have a friend who will loan one for a trip....

Actually they are gender specific. Women have longer legs and shorter torso's than men, so for correct posture the top tube of a bicycle frame is generally shorter in comparison to a frame designed for a male. Generally, lower gearing is required and a lot of smaller women would benefit from smaller wheels such as 650C over 700C wheels so as to ensure the correct head and seat tube angles. It may be very worthwhile for a women to go directly to a bespoke frame builder to get a frame designed to fit properly. The extra cost may be very worthwhile for long term comfort and cycling efficiency.

My main large backpack (a Lowe Alpine Crossbow ND70, long since discontinued), after trying out many at the local outdoor store ending up being a women specific model. Apart from the girly colours, most kit is basically the same being just marketed as gender specific. Going for lightweight (more expensive) kit is always recommended for women as well because being in general less strong than men they will have a harder time hauling gear.


Although saying that it was a woman that eventually won the TV show, 'SAS are you tough enough'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AENJ5ixGn_Q&NR=1

Thank, Rebwa, for this thread.

I hope the few ETS women will chime in with their first-hand female perspectives. I'd prefer the fellas sit this one out unless they'd like to relate their personal experience using women's outdoor gear (no lingerie accounts, please), wearing women's clothes or designing either for manufacture.

When I first started hiking and camping as an adult, I don't recall hearing anything about "women-specific" gear. But then I went shopping for a bike a few years ago and, sure enough, bought a women-specific because it fit so well. I've since become fond of non-women specific Rocky Mountain bikes -- turns out that manufacturer generally has shorter top tubes, which is a major issue for most women in choosing a bike, because of our generally shorter reach.

LL Bean's women-specific version of the Bigelow daypack has been terrific. In backpacks I always seek out a women-specific.

Clothes-wise, women-specific outdoor clothing -- especially jackets -- too often means a pastel color palate that to me is loathsome. There is usually an acceptable color or two but I've often envied the men's choice of colors. Men's jackets also seem to have a greater array of pockets. I've bought a couple men's LL Bean coats because of the pockets and color.

Security from a woman's perspective is a discussion I look forward to having with ETS women.

Again, thanks for this thread. I'm going to give it further thought and chime in again later.

Thanks Dagny, that's great info on the bikes and packs. Both of which I need to upgrade.

Pockets are something that we seem to always get shorted on. I too have a couple of men's jackets because of more and better pocket design as well as better colors. The shallow pockets in most of our pants really bugs me, especially in the summer when not wearing a jacket with lots of pockets. I've been wearing the Royal Robbins Field Guide vests in the warm weather as it has lots of nice secure pockets.


I too will be interested in what other's have to say re security and how they deal with it. My two Dobes are a big part of at least the feel good part of security for me. They go almost everywhere with me and I'm confident they would give me early warning if someone with ill intent was around.

Web site on firearm carry put together by a lady here in Washington:

http://corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx#Why

Also, defensivecarry.com is a good concealed carry forum, and although it is not female specific, there are a number of active female members.

-john

YAY- A woman specific equipment thread, lol. If only I had more experience to add something important!

Pockets, pockets, pockets. When I go hiking or walking I love wearing cargo pants. The more pockets the better, and they are kinda gender neutral.

As far as backpacks, I have one that is probably not specific for the outdoors, but I love it because it has about 738 pockets and sections. It's sort of expandable, and very comfortable to carry, and I guess somewhat durable as I've had it a few years now.

As for security... I will be hitting up the shooting range with the husband to practice, and hope to take a concealed carry class in the next couple months. This is something more for if I am hiking alone (I tend to retreat to the woods for my downtime). Or for when/if husband deploys. Also, my dobie pup will hopefully be a deterrent of violence once he grows up!

Something else I want to do, more for my three teenage daughters: I think most vehicles these days have a safety latch on the inside of the trunk. I really want to lock my girls in the trunk and teach them to work it in case somebody snatches them and tosses them in a trunk! I actually think about it a lot, so there must be a reason it's on my mind! Is that over the top?? LOL. I haven't done it yet because we only have a truck and a minivan, no trunks.

I would also like to add a pepper spray to my purse (not sure why I haven't yet).

That's all I can think of for now.

PS- Dagny: for some reason I thought you were a guy.

Thanks for chiming in Krista.

I too love cargo pants for outdoor activities, just wish they made more that fit correctly with deep pockets, especially the side pockets where I like to put my keys.

The NRA has some good reading materials on safety that you might check out. They have a minimal charge for some of their brochures but well worth it in my opinion.

Good idea on teaching children to get out of a locked trunk.

I keep pepper spray in my shoulder bag. Don't normally carry it when I'm out with my dogs. My male is mature and the female is 17 months so it seems sort of redundant with them on the end of the leash.

I'm not a woman, nor do I play one on TV. I am, however, an avid cyclist, and I've taken many a female friend shopping for her first "adult" bicycle.

I highly recommend the "woman specific frames" that are out there. They are almost universally more comfortable for the women I know who ride, due to the differences in frame geometry discussed above (and I'm not talking about step-through frames - these look just like "normal" road bikes.) In my experience, Trek, Cannondale, and I believe Specialized all make mid-to-high end production bikes with frames designed for women. NO need to go bespoke.

Additionally, though this is a particularly personal decision, there are many bicycle saddles (the seat) designed specifically for women, with padding or cutouts in different places than on those designed for men. There is no way to predict which saddle is going to work best for your specific anatomy without trying them out, but I can tell you that taking the time to find the right one will make a world of difference! If you plan on using your bike for more than short rides around the neighborhood, find a sales person you're comfortable with and tell them EXACTLY where your saddle is causing discomfort, and they may be able to recommend something different. This is somewhere that working with a female sales person is likely a good idea, as she'll have more experience with what works for her and her friends.

As for other gear, my wife sleeps in the same tent as me, and when she decided she wanted to go backpacking, I took her to Campmor where they kitted her out with gear that fit, adjusting it specifically to her when necessary. Her pack is the same brand as mine, but smaller than mine, but then so is she. She has the same Asolo boots as I do, and our cargo pants and rain gear look pretty much the same. She makes me do all the cooking, but mostly because she's terrified of my white gas stove!

The recent thread on the poor woman who succumbed after trying to hike out in muddy conditions prompted me to start this thread. Having appropriate footwear in your vehicle for the season and the location you are in, could make a big difference in a situation where you find yourself on foot. If your feet get wet and it turns cold, you’re in big trouble in a hurry.

Over the years I’ve experimented with various hiking boots and gaiter combinations as well as the tall Muck Boots.

In the PNW, my three season 'go to' boots are the Muck boot Tack classic in the high. I have a couple of horses and the shape of the foot bed also offers some protection around hooved animals. They are just very comfortable for me to wear and walk in-I walk my dogs with them usually at least a couple miles per day, with the exception of slick or icy conditions.

For those conditions I prefer hiking boots with gaiters. I always carry a pair of the Muck boots in my SUV along with hiking boots suitable for the season and that includes gaiters in fall thru spring.

My winter hiking boots are Keen winter boots and they are very toasty and comfy but I’ve had some issues with them not being durable. Same durability issues with both the Keen and Merrell ventilated summer boots. I’ve had great luck with the Cabelas all leather Rimrock hikers as far as holding up well and getting the most wear, they are great boots unless the weather is really cold or hot and reasonably priced as well.

All of our feet are a bit different but I'd love to hear what's worked well for other women.

Ha - must've seen me in a guy's LL Bean jacket.

:-)

In the early 1990s, the NRA began a program originally geared to women called "Refuse To Be A Victim." I was privileged to attend the inaugural public session.

I very highly recommend attending a session, or more. There are now licensed instructors around the country you can access via the website at the link below. RTBAV is pointedly silent on the subject of gun ownership or use.

A couple of RTBAV points I picked up which I credit with saving me a few years later when I was attacked walking home from work at 7:00p (a dark November night):

1) if carrying a purse or other bag, carry it on your shoulder adjacent to a wall or fence. This way a smash-and-grab is more difficult.

2) if attacked, yell "FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!" as loud as you can.

3) And do not -- absolutely do not -- let them drag you into an alley, building or vehicle. Fall to the ground and fake a seizure if you have to (it's not easy to pick up off the ground someone who does not want to be picked up).

Especially in an urban area, people can become inured to screams or are too scared to help. But hearing "FIRE!" gets people concerned about their own property so they are more likely to respond or at least call 911. In my case, a man walking the opposite direction had been suspicious of a guy walking in the street a few parked cars behind me. The bystander stopped to watch as I walked past and saw the guy turn the corner after I did. He was already walking my direction when he then saw the stalker start running and subsequently heard me yelling. After I started yelling, several people came running out of the houses in front of which I was attacked.

By the way, I had pepper spray in my pocket when the attacker tackled me from behind and tried to pry my arms apart (which were clutching my purse). Pepper spray does no good when it's in your pocket. Now if I'm walking at night I have pepper spray in my hand, finger over the trigger.

Krista -- you should see if your husband's military base has security training for women. If they don't have something akin to the Refuse To Be A Victim course, ask if it's possible to get it offered. If you have enough friends (men and women) who would be interested you could contact a local instructor on your own and set up a private session.

A couple of years ago as part of National Crime Prevention Month (October), I convinced my workplace to offer two lunchtime Refuse To Be A Victim sessions.

RTBAV has expanded its scope to include Internet security and workplace security. It can save you money as well as save your life.

And it's not for women only.


http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/

Home Security
Personal Security
Automobile Security
Workplace Security
Technological Security

Through a four-hour seminar (shorter presentations are available) called Refuse To Be A Victim®, you can learn the personal safety tips and techniques you need to avoid dangerous situations and avoid becoming a victim.

Hundreds of federal, state, and local law enforcement officials across the country have implemented Refuse To Be A Victim® into their crime prevention and community policing initiatives.

Other security notes, useful for all but especially for women -- who male predators consider easy targets:

1) situational awareness -- you don't have it if you're concentrating on a phone call or are listening to your i-Pod.

2) if walking, jogging or biking alone -- make sure you let someone know where you are going, when you are going, and when you expect to be back. And touch base with them when you are back. A friend of mine lives out in the 'burbs and during the week wants to walk in a park. If going alone, she e-mails me before and after.

3) carry pepper spray and a whistle. Have the pepper spray in your hand or quickly accessible. When hiking I have a canister of bear spray in a holster on my backpack's hip belt. When walking my dog I have pepper spray clipped to a small shoulder bag which also holds Gidget's poop bags and my cell phone. In both instances, a Fox-40 whistle is on a chain around my neck (along with Doug Ritter's e-PICO light). The pepper spray is also to protect my dog from other off-leash dogs.

4) lock your car doors before putting the key in the ignition.

5) Have self-defense within reach in your car. I have a few items within reach of the driver's seat -- including pepper spray in a drink holder. Other items: hickory "tire knocker," large wrench (which is for my trailer hitch but also a formidable weapon at close range) and a baseball bat (legal everywhere that I know of -- baseball being "America's past-time" and all). I live in Washington, D.C. where carrying loaded weapons is strictly verbotten and even possessing them in your home is strictly regulated.

Again a personal experience impressed on me how important it is to not be defenseless in the car. A few years ago, I had a Mazda Miata (a diminutive vehicle, to say the least) and had pulled in behind a taxi-cab on my way home. About a half-block later while crossing an interesection the taxi stopped, leaving me sitting in the intersection. At first I thought he was going to pick up a fare as people were standing on the corner, but then he got out of his car and walked back toward me. I then assumed his car had broken down. He approached my window, which I obligingly rolled down. He then berated me to "stop following" him as he alleged that I had been tailing him for miles. It was a bizarre harangue, to say the least. It's not like my Miata looked like an undercover FBI vehicle, and I had only been behind him for barely half a block. But I sat there, a sitting duck -- cars behind me, to the side and in front. Fortunately, he was content with the verbal abuse and got back into his car. Now if that happened I'd have pepper spray in one hand, my hand rolling up the window with the other and cell phone on hands-free for 911. You just never know.

You have highlighted a gaping inadequacy in my car (Honda Element) preparedness: no boots or socks. And I am going to rectify that momentarily when I stock it with a pair of Lowe hiking boots and a couple pair of hiking socks.

I'd already put gaiters, water proof hats, gloves and four different jackets in. I've been keeping more and more hiking and camping gear in the car. It's got the room (hidden from prying eyes) and is as good a place as any to store it.

These Lowe Renegades have been my go-to hiking boot for over a decade. Comfortable from the get-go. Hundreds of hard and often wet miles have been put on these boots (have had a few pair of them) from here to Hawaii.

These boots combined with these gaiters (which I've had since 1995), kept my feet and lower legs dry through hours upon hours of trekking through and standing in the snow we had this past winter.

Lowe Renegade GTX
http://www.rei.com/product/796065

Outdoor Research Crocodile Gaiters
http://www.rei.com/product/725915

Clothing recommendations. These all roll up nice and small and I have one of most of these in the car at all times. They can be found at various times on sale for 30% or more off.

Unfortunately, Marmot is among the worst for saddling women with girly colors. But they usually have black.


Marmot Dri-Clime Windshirt
http://www.rei.com/product/794868

A friend got me onto the Marmot Dri-Clime Windshirt a decade ago when she came back from her first Himalayan trek. She said the most experienced trekkers and climbers had the Dri-Clime and swore by it as a layer on the coldest days and a light jacket on milder days. I now have several. Seriously, several. It's a great jacket into the 60s over a t-shirt or tank and great over fleece during vigorous hiking down into the 30s. I also have a vest version of this jacket which I wear alone around the house as well as biking and under winter parkas.


Marmot PreCip Rain Jacket - Women's
http://www.rei.com/product/718308

Another Marmot that I've collected like M&Ms -- many great colors, my favorite being this brown one below. There are other great waterproof parkas (an LL Bean version has served me well for many years) but this Marmot PreCip is my go-to. I keep a green one in the car.


Marmot PreCip Full-Zip Rain Pants - Women's
http://www.rei.com/product/738816

A New England trip a few years ago turned into a soggy saga as a raging torrent of record-breaking rain closed roads. An Oregon friend was with me and being an experienced Pacific Northwest backpacker she did not flinch from hiking in downpours so we went on with our itinerary. These Marmot rain pants and the OR gaiters and Lowe Renegade GTX boots and an LL Bean parka mentioned previously kept me dry.


HATS -- I have got dozens of hats. Golf, Tilley, fleece, OR sombrero and on and on. I like hats to shade my eyes from the sun, rain and to keep my hair from blowing. How many dozens I don't know. Lots. My favorite rain hats -- unlined and fleece-lined -- are no longer carried by REI (was their brand). In the interest of mentioning men's gear that I've appropriated to my usage, here's an LL Bean men's hat that I love and have in dark brown and dark green. They're waxed cotton and I just love waxed cotton. It's not for hot weather but great for 40s-50s. And I see now that Bean is saying it's for men and women. I know it was originally men-only but apparently it's now unisex. Great hat at a great price.

Waxed Cotton Packer Hat
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/47349?pag...7-sub2&np=Y

Thanks!! I'm going to try on a pair of the Lowe Renegade GTX. That's great that they work well in different temps and hold up. I tried them on several years back and liked them, the local store only carried the black color is what stopped me then. I've had some major durability issues with keens and merrells after one season in like one winter or one summer.

I recently looked at the OR high Gaiters, as my ancient short ones have seen better days. The high ones are the way to go in my opinion.

I've always thought more emphasis should be given to footwear for the car kit by most sites, especially when most only recommend 'sturdy shoes', which won't cut it in wet or cold conditions.

An aspect of the Lowa Renegade that hooked me is the tread. These things stick like glue to the smooth boulders in the Shenandoahs.

There are other great boots, no doubt, but the Lowa Renegade has worked so well for me that I just stay with them because I know they work and they are comfortable for me.

My sister is partial to Merrells.

So true. If your feet ache are blistered or frozen, you are going to be absolutely miserable and your mobility will be greatly reduced.

We should all have at least a couple of pair of hiking socks in the car and waterproof hiking boots.

And blister First Aid.

Socks and liners. . . One pair of socks can go for days with multiple pair of liners. Better is two pair of socks with 3-4 pair of liners. Alternate the socks daily, change the liners whenever your feet start to get damp.

The liners can be cleaned and air-dry (overnight) to keep you in clean dry socks almost indefinitely.

REI Merino Wool Liner Socks

I would like to echo Dagny's comments about the Marmot Dri-Clime jacket and the Pre-Cip items. They work very well for guys, as well, and they are classics. And this is coming from a Patagonia fan.....

My Dri-Clime jacket is probably the most versatile item of clothing I own..

Marmot makes some really nice stuff, I was lucky to snag a jacket on sale at REI and a nice fleece vest from Sierra Trading Post. The Dri-Clime Jacket looks great, however the guys sure got the good colors!

Living in the PNW I pretty much keep a three layered approach to clothing in my suv year round. I Tweak it some between the seasons but not all that much. With the fleece and technical fabrics they really don’t take up much space and it could save your life.

Is it possible to get a guy's color in the right size and get a reasonable fit - given that this is outdoor gear and not something for a job interview?

I ask because I bought my Dri-Clime a bit on the loose side.

Guy's jackets tend to be cut narrower in the hips, so it depends on the woman's build and how that brand's sizes tend to run. My Marmot's stuff is all women's.

I have some guy's jackets and coats because, like you said: I'm not wearing them to the office. For walking my dog or around a campground, a perfectly tailored fit is not a high priority -- pockets, material and color are.

I like my Dri-Climes loose enough to allow wearing over a lightweight fleece top.

Here's an example of a man's jackets that I have because there was not a woman's version (and because I got this one half-off). Great for dog walks in mild temps and for bumming around camp where I am especially fond of having numerous pockets. As the description below states, it's a reproduction of a 1956 safari-style jacket. Lotsa pockets.

Explorer Jacket
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/63073?pag...4-sub2&np=Y

"Inspired by our 1956 Bush Jacket, it features 10 functional pockets – six outside and four inside – and an improved vented back cape that keeps you cool in hot climates without allowing weather to penetrate. Durable cotton canvas is enzyme-washed for a soft, weathered appearance and treated to be water resistant. Lined with lightweight, fast-drying mesh to help air circulate and keep you dry. Gusseted back allows for a natural, comfortable fit across shoulders. Zip front and drawcord waist."

Rebwa mentioned Sierra Trading Post. It's a great place to find excellent prices on Marmot and other brands, for women and men. Colors are often a limited selection.

Here's the "original" style Dri-Clime windshirt for $47 -- about half-off the full retail prices.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,1585D_Marmot-Original-DriClime-Windshirt-Jacket-For-Women.html

Good-looking Jacket Dagny! I have one that’s similar in style from Outback Trading, picked it up a long-time ago at a Tack shop, unfortunately they don‘t make it anymore. It’s great for cool late spring and early fall outings and I LOVE all the big pockets! Great here too for dog walking.

Sierra Trading post is a great place to find some awesome gear at rock-bottom prices, especially if you’re familiar with the brand and how it’s sized and don’t mind buying gear in the off season. I have a friend with small feet and she regularly gets great buys there on name brand high end hiking boots and shoes. The best footwear deals always seem to be mostly in the small or large sizes.

The best deal I ever made on good gear was on a men’s Marmot jacket in yellow at one of REI’s sales, it was marked down way- over half, I’m sure due to the color. It stays in my SUV kit and has saved the day many times when caught out in rain, wind or snow. When a storm rolls in those off colors are really the last thing on your mind!

Here is something that I thought I'd never own, until a friend convinced me otherwise. I use it mostly around my neck when the wind comes up. Or pull it up under a baseball cap on cold days. Very small to always keep in a pocket along with the regular bandanna. They also work great under a bike helmet on cold days to keep your neck and ears warm.

http://www.buff.es/en/catalog_entry.php

Food and Water in the car kit

The recent string of devastating earthquakes have prompted me to upgrade the stock in my car kit in the way of food and water.

Carrying adequate water in the suv is my biggest challenge. Right now I have a case of 24 (16.9 oz) bottles of bottled water and several stainless water bottles that I keep rotated and filled. I’m going to upgrade the coglan’s water purification tabs to the Katadyn tablets.

The Mountain House freeze dried meals weigh next to nothing and take up very little room in my car kit. Most that I’ve tried taste pretty darn good too. I’ve tossed in some hard candy, packages of the crackers and cheese and several Luna Bars. I also keep 3 days worth of dog food in a vacuumed sealed container in the rig and rotate it monthly. And, a tube of the Nunn electrolyte tabs.

A snow peak 700 pot with lid and spork are also in the kit. I would love to keep my stow peak stove and a couple of fuel canisters there but I’m uneasy about keeping fuel canisters in the SUV. So for now I have an Eco fuel stove with 4 canisters of Eco-fuel. As a back-up I have a Esbit stove and extra fuel tabs stored as well.

Love to hear what others carry in the way of food and water.

I typically carry canned foods rather than dehydrated foods in a vehicle since I would only have to used my water stash to prepare the dried stuff. With canned fruits and stews, I am augmenting my water supply, rather than using it up. The empty tins also become potentially useful objects in an emergency(tin can lid signal mirror, anyone?).

The trick is finding food items which can survive any length of time in the rather severe environment of a car. It is generally necessary to recycle fairly often - at least once a year.

In theory, the perfect stove would be one which would run off the car's fuel supply. Then you would not have to keep any kind of fuel canister within the passenger space. Depending upon the specific vehicle, it might be tricky to obtain fuel from the tank. I go with a Trangia cook kit, and a small bottle of alcohol in a sturdy bottle.

Good suggestions on the canned food, Hikemor! Thank you

While I really like SUV’s especially for my dogs, they do present their own set of challenges like safely storing fuel and making sure things are secured in the event of an accident. I will do some research on the Trangia cook kit. Do you use regular alcohol in it? And what specific type of container do you recommend? I doubt that I’d be able to drain fuel from my SUV. I probably would rotate everything outside of the Mtn. House food a couple times per year. My rig is parked in the garage except while in use so that does cut down on temp extremes somewhat. Thanks again for the input!

I do have one of the MSR fuel bottles that I picked up but then never used.

The Trangia takes alcohol - usually I feed it denatured alcohol from the home center. Operation is extremely simple, but I would recommend playing with it a bit before packing it away. I keep my alcohol in a stout plastic bottle (500 cm capacity) which resides within a fairly solid container. If the fuel bottle ruptures in an accident, I will be dealing with much larger problems, if I am dealing at all.

Parking inside should be much more felicitous. My car is exposed to the merciless California sunshine. Vehicles make great solar cookers.

As I write about all the stuff in my car it seems remarkable that it all fits. The backseats are out of the Element most of the year and in their place are two 99-gallon Action Packers that hold all this stuff and more.

I have two stoves in the car, one of them very low tech: the Kelly Kettle. I also have a Coleman duel-fuel single burner in there.

The beauty of the Kelly Kettle (and its cousins the Thermette and Eydon Kettle) is that it runs off the most rudimentary fuel -- twigs, sticks and even animal dung. I keep a variety of fire starters and lots of matches in the car, too.

These kettles are primarily for boiling water but they also come with cook kits for heating food over the flame. I have the kit for the Kelly but haven't used it.

http://www.kellykettle.com/

"# NO Batteries, NO Gas - FREE FUEL! Works with any fuel: sticks, dry grass, bark, pine cones, even dry animal dung!"

I bought direct from the manufacturer in Ireland. Significantly cheaper than any I could find in the U.S. (cheapest complete kit I saw at the time in the U.S. was $129, not including shipping).

The principle complaint with the Kelly Kettle is needing two hands to pour (one to hold the chain) and some reported leakage at the bottom because the metal is not welded.


http://www.thermette.com/index.htm

There is another version of this kettle technology that was patented in New Zealand in 1929. It's called the "Thermette" and is made of copper (last two photos below). Both the Kelly and the Thermette get high reviews for boiling water fast with "found fuel" (sticks, twigs, etc.).

The weak point of the Thermette is reportedly a cheap handle that will result in knuckle-burn if not careful. I have a Thermette (I'm a sucker for the rustic copper) but haven't used it. The Thermette stays at home.

A third "storm kettle" manufacturer I came across is the "Eydon Kettle Company" of the United Kingdom. Built and sold there. I don't recall any criticism of it, just seems the discussions are predominately Kelly v. Thermette.

http://www.eydonkettle.com/

FOOD -- I generally have a few Luna Bars in the car and that's it. If we're going on a roadtrip, I add twice the dog food that I expect Gidget will need and whatever I may be taking to camp.

WATER -- I have a case of bottle water in a soft cooler in the back of the Element at all times. The water that's in there now was put in around Thanksgiving and survived our severe winter without leakage.

Nice to know the water is in there 24/7, I have used a couple bottles.

HYGIENE

I'm a Felix about cleanliness so have several bottles of antiseptic spray in the car. Also have a few packages of "bath-wipes" in the Element's driver and passenger doors.

I recently put a bar of soap in the car and have just begun thinking about keeping shampoo and conditioner in there. Will probably just throw my camping shower bag in the car -- includes toothbrush and toothpaste and assorted items. That's one of those things I absolutely do not want to forget when going camping. And it would enhance my morale if stranded somewhere.

I keep a small folding brush in the glove compartment.

There's much to be said for keeping some fresh undergarments in the car -- they don't take much room. Maybe some Target cheapies. Will add to my list.

EXTRA GLASSES

I also keep in the car an older pair of glasses.

Contacts are a luxury, glasses are necessity. For me, anyway.

TIRE COMPRESSOR & CHANGING A TIRE

We've come a long way, baby, but a lot of us females still aren't adept at changing a tire. I am adept because my father made sure I knew how to change a flat on my first car - a '69 Mustang - and because of the way I drove that car (corners), I had lots of practice changing flats.

Any woman who has not changed a tire on the car she currently drives, should practice doing so. Know where the lug wrench is and the "locking" lugnut socket if you need one to remove your wheels. Make sure the lugnuts aren't on so tight that you can't break them loose.

Know where the jack is and the proper place to put it when you are jacking up the car (owner's manual should have this info).

Also make sure your spare tire has sufficient air. I had a flat last week (thankfully the car was in front of the house) and my spare has only half as much air pressure as its supposed to. And then I discovered that the portable tire compressor I carry no longer works (must've killed it on my neighbor's car last month). [any recommendations for a new one?]

While getting new tires and an oil change after that flat last week I had a couple hours to burn and did so reading through my Honda Element owner's manual. A good investment of time now and then.

re air compressor

I picked up one from Costco last fall after my old one failed, it's the PowerStation PSX, batt charger, light and air compressor. I think it was $69 and they still have them in stock out here. It's a little big is my only complaint. I only carry it on trips.

dagny- thanks for that reminder about knowing how to change a tire. i too was taught by my father when i first got my drivers license (yearrrrs ago). I thankfully have not been required to do it since I was in high school. (Probably just jinxed myself). But anyway, that is a good idea about practicing it on our current vehicles. I know the basic principles of how to change the tire, but they do say practice makes perfect!

Ditto on the hygiene items Dagny! I keep a small bag with travel sized bottles of shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant in my vehicle, doesn‘t take much room and could make things lots more pleasant. Hand sanitizer. wipes and travel towels are nice to have too.

For those of us that include dogs in our outdoor adventures, I highly recommend carrying some sort of skunk odor remover in your vehicle, especially during the summer and early fall. Fortunately, I’ve only had a dog skunked once and it was at home, but two friends have had this happen while out and NOT within walking distance of home. It’s probably prudent to have something on hand to at least get the odor under some sort of control prior to placing the dog back in your vehicle for the ride home! There are many products on the market as well as the homemade; peroxide, baking soda and soap recipe, which is a rather harsh concoction and caution needs to be used getting it around the face …where they normally get sprayed. Most treatments require immediate washing out afterwards, which could present a problem when away from home.

After talking to several who have used it, I carry Skunk-Off spray in my vehicle if I’m going to be out in any likely skunk area with my dogs. You can spray the dog down without rinsing it out and I’ve been told it really helps, at least until you can get home for a good warm water bath and more treatments as skunk odor is not easy to get off a dog.

Now is the time to check yourself, many, many shops will over tighten the lug nuts and make them difficult for you to get loose. I gave up on "free" tire rotations after it too two people jumping on a pipe on the end of a lug wrench to get one off. After doing it a couple times I can rotate tires and change oil in less time than it would take me to drive someplace to have it done anyway and I know my vehicle better for it. I keep a pair of old clothes and all the tools required under the back seat of my truck should I ever need to do either out somewhere and doing it at home is good practice and a good way to check and make sure all my gear is there.

Great points, Eugene. On my '69 Mustang I did oil changes, air filter, brake fluid, radiator, spark plugs and tires -- after tutorials by my father and grandfather. Kept a hammer in the trunk for when the tranny linkage would get stuck. It is empowering to have that familiarity with your vehicle.

But with the newer cars I have become a wuss and just take it into my mechanic. Fortunately it's a small shop and he lets me hang out in the garage when he has the cars up on the lift.

Next time I'll have a chat with him about the lug nuts and will in the meanwhile make a point to try loosening a few of them.

You may have found a decent garage then. Most places its not profitable to pay mechanics salary to do simple thngs so they hire lessor paid people to do those and those people will miss things.

I too used to do the routine maintenance, but a local NAPA affiliate does good work and their mechanics are worth the money. The shop owner races and I doubt he'd keep a bad/incompetent mechanic on staff. They've seen me there often enough over that years that they don't get upset when they find me in the shop area.

On the matter of hygiene, this solar shower is on sale at REI and wouldn't take much room. I just ordered one since I was getting something else. Comes with a towel.

http://www.rei.com/product/800377

That's a good buy Dagny. I've actually used mine a couple of times on overnight trail rides. I attached it to one of the tie rings on the horse trailer. They heat up fast on the hood of the vehicle.

This thread is reminding me to get a few things picked up too. I made a trip to Cabela's this am for the Katadyn Water Purifier tabs, ended up with another crate fan and a neat little Grundig radio.

Getting into this late, due to my computer problems...

Shoes and good socks, absolutely. If you can't walk, much less run, you could be in real trouble. Extra socks make decent mittens, too.

If you carry a knit hat in winter, consider keeping a 12" circle of mylar emergency blanket material with it. It makes a world of difference when worn under the hat when the hat itself isn't enough.

Men and women's skeletons can be sexed by looking at the pelvis, they're that different. The correct type of bicycle seat is crucial.

If you have to go with cheap clothes, go with men's cheap clothes -- they're sturdier, better made, last longer. Just make sure they fit right.

Your dogs running loose away from you are not valuable as a protector. Untrained dogs are useless, too. Beware of men who approach and just about the first words out of their mouth is "Does the dog bite?" Your answer is ALWAYS 'Yes'.

Pepper spray is fine, but stream-type wasp spray is cheaper, easier to find, and does more damage to a perp. Also, any woman who is afraid or unwilling to really fight an attacker needs to lose that victim attitude. Sometimes, a woman going berserk with fury can be enough to scare a perp off.

Trust your instincts. A bad feeling is your subconscious waving red flags, so pay attention. Being nice, being polite isn't necessary. Window dressing is fine... like a used paper target with several holes near the bullseye and an empty holster on the front seat. Good-looking men can be psychos, too.

Krista, about the trunk safety latches: one of your neighbors has a car, so tell them what you want to do. NOW is better than too late. The ones I've seen are fairly obvious, but embedding it in their brain is better than talk. Some perps have older cars, which don't have the same handle-type releases, but they do have a release (if it isn't rusted). The release is right in the inside of the lump that is the lock unit, but it is often covered with the trunk lining fabric. Go to a wrecking yard and find a couple of older cars, take a small knife with you (a folder will do). Poke it through the fabric until you find the hole in the metal, about 5/8" or so in diameter. Cut an X in the fabric over the hole, and feel inside for a small metal bar about 1/8" thick and maybe 1/3" long. If you can get it to move, the trunk will unlock. Your daughters should be carrying small folders when they can. And a small flashlight, too. It's dark in there. If a stranger's car has a lug wrench in the trunk, a victim can use it to break out the tail light from the inside. The sight of a hand protruding from a taillight will produce 911 calls.

If you don't carry a lot of passengers in the back seat, consider making or adapting a sturdy backpack for the back of the front passenger seat. Cinch it down firmly so it doesn't become a lumpy projectile in a rollover accident, and have fasteners to keep the contents inside. I've only seen one of these and didn't get a really good look.

The best bottle for holding denatured alcohol (or the red bottle of HEET for treating water in gas tanks) for a small stove is a pint hair dye/peroxide bottle -- very, very sturdy. Check out a beauty supply shop (or a friend who doesn't use the one-shot hair dye packages). Add table salt, popcorn salt, or potassium chloride (no-sodium salt like Nu-Salt) to color the alcohol so you can see the flame.

Tire changing: When you have your tires rotated or have the studded ones changed, ask the guy to hand-tighten the lug nuts, then stand nearby and WATCH him do it. Tip him a few bucks -- it's worth it.

Carry a couple of cans of Fix-A-Flat in your car. If the puncture isn't too large, it's the quickest way to plug the leak, inflate the tire and get moving. Roll the wheel so the valve stem is down low, attach the tip of the can and hold it in position until the can is empty, then immediately start the car rolling so the goo will line the inside of the tire. Tire changing guys hate the stuff, so warn them when you take the tire in to be repaired. Get the tire properly fixed ASAP. A portable compressor is nice, but they're usually pretty slow.

If you have to drive on the rim, DRIVE ON THE D**NED RIM! They can be replaced, you can't.

If your car is second-hand, make sure the jack actually fits the car when the tire is flat. A 9" tall jack doesn't fit under an axle (or whatever) that is 7" from the ground. If you forgot to check this, try to find a chunk of wood or fallen fencepost, etc, and drive the flat tire up onto it to increase the distance from the ground. Don't forget to block the other wheels so they don't roll. Got flares?

A few feet of Reflectix insulation (buy it by the roll or by the foot) is cheap and a great thing to kneel on when the ground is muddy or frozen. It's also a great reflector and warm to sit on.

It's a sad thing, but beware of good samaritans.

Sue

So many great tips, Sue. The range and depth of your suggestions causes me to emphasize a basic requirement of preparation, something you are so adept at:

Imagine scenarios, really intently imagine them -- before they happen.

ETS members are ahead of that game or they wouldn't be here.

I've never been lost in the woods and certainly hope never to be lost. Yet I have imagined it so I could envision what I would need to have and do to survive, maintain some level of comfort and be found. Imagining it also is further incentive to prevent it from happening (carrying a map and compass) and mitigating the danger (not hiking alone, informing friends and family of the route, departure time and expected return time).

I'd bet that most if not all of the people I've hiked with over the years had given no thought to the possibility of something going wrong on the trail. That's why they marveled at the heft of my backpack (I'm typically the only one carrying First Aid, compass, etc)

I have been stranded in a car on the side of a busy highway with a narrow shoulder, so I know how scary it can be to have cars flying by at 80mph rocking your car with the wind they generate.

I haven't been stranded at night and have not been stranded in a car on a quiet backroad. There are important distinctions in those scenarios. Simply imagining it is so disturbing that I have multiple flashlights/headlamps, strobe and other flashing lights to alert oncoming motorists, as well as an array of survival gear in the car -- including water, jackets, sleeping bag and now thanks to Rebwa -- hiking boots and socks.

Those imagined scenarios are also why I keep an eye on car maintenance -- regular oil changes and other fluid checks, maintaining proper tire air pressure and adhering to the service requirements laid out in the car's owner's manual. Before a planned big roadtrip last year I consulted my mechanic and had the brake lines bled (I pull a teardrop trailer) and had a new heavy-duty battery installed (the original was nearing the end of its expected life).

Imagining the power going out in winter or summer, the water going out or being tainted (we had a city-wide cryptosporidium scare in the 1990s), sewer problems, transportation problems impeding restocking of grocery stores (such as during severe blizzards).

Women, in particular, have other dangers to imagine. I have been attacked walking home from work. I have not been attacked in my home. Imagining that is why I have many layers of security and defense. And a phone always within reach to call 911.

Next week I'm riding up to Niagara Falls with a friend (550 miles one way) to pick up her new puppy. We'll have two adult dogs with us (including my Gidget). We're taking my friend's Ford Flex. It's a plush ride compared to my Element. I'd just as soon put the mileage on her car but I'll miss the reassurance of having all the gear I keep in mine. So I'm making a list of what I should and reasonably can pack. Trying to imagine the potential scenarios of this trip.

I'm so accustomed to being prepared, it's hard to settle for less. But with her car, two adults and two dogs and a puppy -- there simply won't be enough room to carry what I usually carry.

And so ends a long rambling post.

So true, and I’ll add that training your dog is an on going time consuming process. I highly recommend good working clubs or training groups for anyone even thinking of doing protection work. Some dogs will protect, other’s will not, I‘ve seen many, even long-time dog owners, misread a dog actually showing fear rather than protective instincts. In today’s society a rock solid genetic temperament and rock solid obedience training is needed before even thinking about doing protection work. Having a dog with impeccable manners and obedience will make most potential trouble makers wonder just how much more that dog might really know!

What most dogs will do is give you advanced warning and that alone is valuable.

Yes, being willing to anticipate problems can go a long way toward mitigating them. As has often been said here, it's not usually just a single problem that gets you into real trouble, but multiple problems at the same time, and the world-famous 'snowball effect'.

I hope you have a good trip. What kind of pup is your friend getting? Be sure to take towels, as many pups get carsick. When I got my last one, she thought the best place to ride was wedged between the back of my neck and the truck's rear window. Sixteen pounds of fluff, scrambling and barfing...

Sue

Have a great trip Dagny. Traveling with a friend and another adult dog gives you and Gidget additional security as there‘s always safety in numbers. My main focus would be to have sufficient versatile clothing that is easy to layer as needed, appropriate footwear, (for me that would include my hiking boots and crocs to wear in the vehicle) water in a stainless container that could withstand using as a pot to boil water, some water purifier tabs, first aid supplies for human and canine, snacks for the people and sufficient food for the dogs if delayed for a day or two. I’d also carry my usual whistle, knife, multi-tool, headlamp, light, cell with car charger, small fire-starting kit, signal mirror, cordage, duct tape, a couple emergency blankets or bivy's and tiny battery radio. Good maps are a must for me even with GPS.

With puppies I always toss in some extra towels, a full large roll of paper towels, a bottle of the pet clean-up spray and couple of heavy duty garbage bags to stuff and secure any soiled bedding or clothing as accidents do happen with the little tikes! When traveling with puppies I also avoid stopping at rest areas as too many dogs frequent those and thus too much risk for parvo. Last winter when we went to Oregon to pick Tara up, Rex went along but we didn’t stop at rest areas even on the way down as if it got on his paws she could have been at risk.

Sound advice, Susan and Rebwa, thanks.

This is a Samoyed puppy. An older puppy - 5 months. So there will be three white big white furballs in the car at the height of shedding season.

Am going to pack a couple lint rollers.

:-)

Thanks to reading reviews from Izzy and other’s on this site, as well as the review on Izzy’s, ‘Timbuk @ A Tippy Canoe’ blog. I’ve found the nearly perfect stainless water bottle in the Guyot design backpacker. Last fall I picked up one of Klean Kanteen’s 27 oz wide mouth after doing some research and finding that the single walled (non-insulated) Klean Kanteen can be used to boil water. To me that seems like a really good option to have in a water bottle.

There are several things I like better about the Guyot backpacker. The shape of the Guyout fits perfectly in the cup holders of my SUV while the Klean Kanteen doesn’t fit as snug and more likely to tip over. The lanyard attachment between the cap and the bottle on the Guyot is very useful and well thought out and it easily slips off it you want to boil water in the Guyot. The cordage lanyard looks and feels sturdy and should hold up well to hanging from a carabiner There is no attachment between the bottle of the Klean Kanteen and the cap. Nice feature from Guyot to assure not dropping your cap.

I also like the 32 oz capacity better as that will make it super easy to use with the Katadyn water purifier tablets that I’m now carrying, also thanks to the expertise on this site.

While I haven’t boiled water in either bottle and probably won’t unless in a situation where I needed to, it’s nice to have that capability in a water bottle. Just another option to be able use my water bottle to sanitize water by boiling or heating water for a meal or hot drink.

I was able to buy both bottles locally, paid $20 for the Klean Kanteen and $25 for the Guyot. For me the Guyot is the better design. The lid openings appear to be the same size but the threading doesn’t match up, so no swapping lids. The lid on the Klean is lined with stainless but no stainless lining on the Guyot lid. So for those who don’t want their drinks touching anything but stainless then the Klean Kanteen would be the way to go. The Klean comes in a variety of colors but if you have any plans to use it over a flame then they recommend the brushed stainless.

Links for both bottles

http://www.guyotdesigns.com/Product-Bottles;jsessionid=0a010b421f43f9f3bbf2def5486d95c18b325f89ac95.e3eSc38TaNqNe34Pa38Ta3aNbNv0

http://www.kleankanteen.com/products/wide/klean-kanteen-27oz-wide.html

Camping and hiking have been the most useful activities for me in honing my own awareness of preparedness and the ability to survive away from home sweet home. It's also where I "practice" using gear.

I was camping for recreation (because it was an affordable, dog-friendly vacation option) before I became mindful of the gear's applicability to preparedness or even a need for preparedness. Was about a year into camping as an adult when we were hit with a severe ice storm in the 1990s accompanied by a week of temps in the teens and rolling blackouts instituted because the entire northeast power grid was overloaded. The camping gear I already had -- especially sleeping bags, candle lanterns and campstove -- were priceless in that situation. I promptly escalated gear acquisition, with priorities shifted to also emphasize preparedness.

We've camped about 100 nights in just the past few years. Each camping trip is instructive about what is needed to maintain a desired level of comfort, what my vehicle can reasonably carry, what should be in it at all times, what can be jettisoned, what should be purchased.

Food storage and prep are a constant camping issue. Best coolers, best methods for storing food in a cooler, different ways of cooking (over the campfire, Dutch Ovens, charcoal grill, campstoves, "storm" kettles), dry food storage, meal planning.

Shelter -- tenting, sleeping in my SUV (Honda Element) and now a teardrop trailer. Different degrees of comfort (insulation) and levels of security in those arrangements (locking doors in Element and teardrop).

Camping has also caused me to experiment with different tarps and configurations of tarps for daytime shelter from rain.

Water portability and potability -- nothing like lugging water around to appreciate how heavy it is. And nothing like living off a finite supply to gauge how much you need and how to conserve (such as in washing dishes) or acquire a safe supply on the trail (purification tabs, filtering and/or boiling).

Lighting -- no street lights at camp so I have a bevy of flashlights and headlamps and have developed preferences based on their output measured in lumens, battery life and battery storage (love the e-PICO headlamp for the itty-bitty wafer batteries -- now keep one in my purse).

Clothing -- nothing like camping and hiking (or backpacking, which I don't do) to appreciate the value of layers and the extreme importance of a waterproof-windproof shell.

Hygiene -- the best thing about coming home from camping is the long, hot high-pressure shower. Campground facilities differ and so I have "bath wipes," different soaps, lots of quarters (5 minutes of hot shower for $1) and just this week a new Zodi hot water-on-demand device (30% off at Costco) which I'll be testing out soon at campground without shower facilities.

Camp tools -- axes, knives, shovels. These are much-used whenever we camp (the folding shovel is mostly used for fire-tending).

Routes out of town -- I live in the city and my commute to work has been less than a mile for the past twenty years. It's only because of camping that I have emblazoned on my brain all the routes to the mountains from where I live. It's only because of hiking that I have an extensive collection of topo maps for those areas.

Security -- my familiarity with bear spray came with hiking in bear country (see subsequent pics). I now have a few canisters and one is always within reach in my teardrop trailer as well as on the hip-belt of my backpack (and with an eye toward human predators more so than bears, with whom we've had no problems to-date).

Organization -- my camping gear is permanently-packed and ready at a moment's notice to be loaded into the car. Even a few days worth of clothes. All that would remain is to load the cooler. Dry food goods, plates and utensils are permanently packed in a "camp kitchen" container. I'm organized in this manner to make it less likely I'd forget to bring something on a camp trip. When we're getting ready to go camping, the only thing to pack is food and t-shirts (an array of jackets and clothing accessories are permanently packed in the teardrop trailer).

Ladies -- do you all do much camping or hiking?

Rebwa -- do you do camp trips on horseback? That would be a packing challenge, I should think.

I camp because its fun, relaxing and a respite from the summer heat and city congestion. Preparedness has been a side-benefit.

In the city I have to be prepared for who I may encounter if walking after dark. In camp, you never know what you'll encounter at all hours of the day. These three I came across while in route to a campground bathroom one morning last week at 6:30a (was not carrying bear spray but did have my camera because I love sunrise pics).

Have run into several Mama Bears + cubs over the years, mostly on hiking trails. No problems, whatsoever. But I do always respect Mama B's might. We were a bit too close at one point, because she was coming toward our campsite.

Some pics of last week's camp:

If I may add to an interesting and insightful post, I would comment that the next step from car camping would be to venture into overnight trips and backpacking, where you face definite weight constraints. Realistically, for most normal mortals, forty pounds is the heaviest weight one can manage well. Living safely and comfortably, as well as maintaining mobility, within that constraint is both a physical and mental challenge.

The advantage is that you have several options in an emergency situation that are not workable for the non-backpacker. And you will be in better physical condition. You also get to visit some pretty nice places that the general public never views.

Backpacking gets down to the real fundamentals, and you develop a sense of what you, individually, find indispensable and what is superfluous.

Dagny, you raise an issue interesting to me, I was just reading a report of a 5 state disaster scenario in which local DC residents were polled and asked about their preparations in the event of an attack, it was a dirty bomb scenario - locally destructive, but not so heavy in terms of loss of life, but also likely to prompt many to evacuate large areas of the DC region. I thought it was interesting that the overwhelming majority in Virginian and DC/Maryland would plan to evacuate north and south, with only a small number heading west, to Pennsylvania and West Virginia, and the mountains. Report at http://www.vdem.state.va.us/library/behavior_study/index.cfm if you're interested.

This may just come down to local topography and available routes, but it strikes me that either you would head for the west because of where you live in relation to DC, or maybe because you are already familiar with the terrain, and you are truly prepared to head for a lesser populated region, which can support you in the event of a crisis?

Backpacking would be instructive, challenging and a good workout. Much like hiking, which I do, with overnighting, a heavier pack and no showers.

But I wouldn't feel safe backpacking solo and it's hard enough to find people to hike and car camp with, let alone backpack with. Most of my camping buds actually stay in the lodge and "camp" only from sunrise to bedtime.

Two women were murdered in their tent while backpacking in Shenandoah NP in 1996, a few miles up the AT from where I car camp.

Was just talking to a couple this weekend who were car camping at the time and were interviewed by the FBI in the case. The husband had reported a creepy character on the AT that day. No one was ever convicted in the case. It is believed that the perp may have been a serial killer who may have been prosecuted in another case, or maybe not.

Backpacking has its benefits but car camping in a patrolled campground is safer, especially for women.

Car camping is also a more realistic scenario and relevant to most evacuation or camping-at-home during power outage scenarios. But by all means, backpack if that appeals to you. If I were in the Pacific Northwest or northern California, I would simply to get high up on the volcanic peaks and into the backcountry. But the topography back here is not as interesting. There's just not the payoff. And in VA the road was conveniently put atop the mountain (Skyline Drive).

There is much to be said for superfluous steak, wine and goat cheese brie. So I will remain a committed car camper who hikes to the camp store for ice.

For when there is no ice, I have freeze-dried meals and noodles.

:-)

Thank you so much for that link, Lono, I will read it momentarily.

My plan is to head west, to the mountains (and valleys). That's all my close friends' plan because we've hiked and camped out there so much. I'm from Oregon, all my instincts are to go west.

My teardrop trailer (and quite a bit of camping gear) is in storage 100 miles from DC in the mountains due west of here.

There is no reason for me to head toward Baltimore or Richmond. And I have no desire to go to those places, especially in the company of millions of evacuees on I-95. And the wind here usually comes out of the west so especially in a dirty bomb or some other scenario involving air dispersal, I'd want to be heading west.

A dirty bomb is the most likely survivable mass evacuation scenario where I live. If an actual nuke went off then by every study I've seen, I live in the zone of vaporization.

Thanks to years of car camping, I'm far less daunted by evacuation or shelter-at-home scenarios. I know I can get a good night's sleep in my Honda Element, wherever it is parked (well, except the bad neighborhoods), or my teardrop trailer or a tent (I have five tents).

Thanks to car camping (and the ingrained habit of topping off my car's fuel tank), I'm packed and ready to go at a moment's notice.

Even Gidget's food and med bag is packed and in with my stuff.

Lono -- I read the entire survey and methodology discussions. Very interesting. I'm delighted that DC residents are biased toward Maryland but I still expect I-66 westbound to be hideous as it already is much of every day.

Interesting that men are significantly more likely to evacuate than women.

I'd be even more interested in such a survey focused strictly on DC residents. The Tyson's Corner, VA dirty bomb scenario is absurd. The attack would be WH, Capitol and/or Pentagon. Therefore the residents in the greatest peril are in Arlington County, VA, all DC neighborhoods, and close-in Maryland residents -- especially PG County, Maryland which is nearly always going to be downwind of whatever happens.

The survey data is instructive -- pet ownership, prescription meds, car ownership (a DC-only survey would show that over one-third don't have cars) jump out at me.

Fairfax County VA should have been left out of the survey or broken out into separate results.

The survey failed to ask how much gas is typically in respondents' cars. If a dirty bomb hits, within an hour there will be a thousand cars lined up at the one gas station (2 pumps) in my neighborhood.

That's one of the reasons I have a locking gas cap.

Again, thank you for posting that. If The Washington Post ever reported on it, I missed it. Maybe we were camping.

That might be true if one was separated from their vehicle. While in earlier year I’ve gone on extended horse packing trips and actually know something about the back country and living off of what you take in. However, the world has changed and women also have to worry about their own safety more today than 20 or 30 years ago. Today, I want either numbers or the safety of a vehicle or trailer with locked doors.

I’ve taken great pains to make-sure that my vehicle is stocked at all times and there are packed bags and plastic crates also at the ready for extended trips outside of my local area with different gear for either the destination or the season. My dogs also have provisions in the vehicle including food for 3 days, and more pre-packed gear minus the additional food for extended trips.

With that in mind, I’d be very hesitant to set off on foot minus my vehicle unless I knew the area and exactly where I was going. As my vehicle would have far more provisions than I, and even my two dogs with backpacks could possibly carry, as well as some protection from exposure and the other elements that might be out there, especially for women. Plus in a search and rescue operation any vehicle is easier to spot for those searching.

For instance, look at the Kim family tragedy in the Southern Oregon mountains a few years back. He died only because he set out on foot! Plus at all times, even going the 4 miles to the grocery store my vehicle is stocked much better than that family was, and for a trip through the mountains in the winter it would be really stocked. In most cases a person, especially a woman, is far better off staying with a well stocked vehicle, at least in my opinion.

Regarding skills that can be done with car camping or heck I practice fire building techniques on my acreage with either bonfires on the beach or just cleaning up fields after the winter storms. So can I really build a fire with what I carry with me on day hikes--yes--and even when it's pouring down rain. I'm somewhat doubtful that I could actually eat from the fishing kit--in a pill bottle--but let's face it most succumb from either injury, exposure or dehydration issues. While I agree that we all should actually practice fundamental survival skills it can be done without backpacking.

Dagny,

Love those pictures of Miss Gidget, she looks so pleased with herself up on the tailgate and in the hammock with the pup delegated to the ground! I can see she has the proper pecking order well established and she looks very pleased with herself. Rex (typical male) would just let Tara run rampant as a pup, and I had to enlist a friend with an older female to teach her proper dog etiquette! Rex and Tara both have hammocks too, they are so nice for outdoor situations.

Wow, those are awesome shots of Mama Bear and the cubs, thanks for sharing.

And dinner looks delicious!

Dagny, great photos! Gidget: Queen of All She Surveys... Naturally.

When you have run across bears, esp with cubs, did you have Gidget with you? If so, how did she react? Both times that I had a bear in camp with a dog, the dog went totally crazy, literally screaming to get at the bear.

Sue

Hi Sue!

Gidget was with me for the entire two hours that we watched these bears. She could not have cared less about them. If they'd been deer she'd have been yapping. Bears bore her. She literally turned her back on them and sat down.

The first time she ever saw one she was one year old, we were hiking and she stood on her hind legs to yap incessantly at the bear (who after one look ignored her). We've seen many bears since and at some point she just wasn't interested. Unlike deer who dart, bears she's seen just lumber around.

I theorize that she thinks they're Newfoundlands.

What I was trying to say is that backpacking is an exercise in minimalism in which you learn what is truly important and what is unnecessary and simply extra weight. A backpacker is comfortable with far less because what is carried is truly essential gear.

I would never suggest leaving a well stocked car and striking out on foot unless you are very certain of the situation. I can guarantee that cars are much easier to find in a SAR operation than individual bodies.

The thing that concerns me about cars is being stuck in a traffic jam during a mass evacuation. One of my options would be to unload the bike and start pedaling. That is essentially backpacking on wheels, and gives you much greater range and flexibility. I doubt I could backpack much more than 100 miles, taking at least four, more likely five or six days, depending upon terrain and weather. I could cover 100 miles on a touring bike in a day, camp and rest, and repeat the next day.

One of the essentials for backpacking is an adequate map or maps. I believe that was Mr. Kim's basic problem, or at least a major contributing factor.

With respect to safety, I think we show a basic east vs west difference in perspectives. In most western areas (not all!), get a mile from the trail head and human interaction is no longer a factor.

I'd quickly discover that what is truly important is my car. And backpackers may be comfortable with far less because they're willing to suffer deprivation for the adventure, isolation and views.

I've had this discussion with a few AT thru-hikers who I've given lifts to from the wayside to the lodge restaurant. Their packs rode nicely on my Yakima Loadwarrior.

;-)

I get what you're saying. It's all relative. Car camping is minimalist compared to being at home. Backpacking is more minimal.

Within backpacking, there's subdivisions between "super-light" backpackers and those who prefer the amenities that a 40 lb pack allows. Some want to carry the whole toothbrush, others just the bristles. Tent or just a tarp? Spork? Or separate spoon and fork? Extreme minimalism is taking nothing but the clothes on your back into the woods. No thanks.

Within car camping, there's the differences between tenting and RVers. And within RV-ing there's us teardroppers at one end of the spectrum and the enormous motor coaches at the other. The biggest divide is between those with noisy generators and those without. The latter would like to shoot the former. It's amusing on camping forums to witness discussions of what constitutes real camping.

I saw "The Road" this weekend. Perhaps my views on camping are reflected in my belief that the wife was right.

Great film, by the way. I'd hesitated to see it because the book was so grim. But the film is 111 minutes (as opposed to several hours of immersion into the book's darkness) and the grim backdrop is relieved throughout by the love, humanity and grace of the father and son.

Highly recommend.

I don't know, the linked article rattled the PNW hiking community to the core, and this is about as west as it gets. Plus reports of illegal growing operations being spotted in the backcountry is another concern of many. The world unfortunately has changed in many ways for women.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003128479_hikersslain15m.html?syndication=rss

I'd forgotten about that, Rebwa. Read about it when it happened. Was anyone ever arrested?

I've done 10 mile hikes in Oregon and Washington and have never been alone on the trails. The best trails are popular and populated.

Nope, unfortunately it hasn't been solved.

[quote=Dagny
My teardrop trailer (and quite a bit of camping gear) is in storage 100 miles from DC in the mountains due west of here. [/quote]

I don't argue with Hikermors backpacking philosophy. I take at least one backwoods primitive trip each fall to purge the soul before winter sets in.The planning is half the fun. If it's cold and wet like last year, then planning is 95% of the fun I do, however, like all forms of camping. This would include tenting in the backwoods out of my truck, or in our Palomino pop-up with the canoe, bikes, and nieces in a state park. I am very interested in hearing about teardrop trailers. They are not too common up here, but I have been eyeballing them in magazines for my retirement years. Can a 6'2" linebacker body-type and his little DW sleep comfortably inside, or are they best for hauling gear?

Absolutely you could be comfortable. Mine's a king-size bed + gear hauler (6'-wide, 81.5" floor). The typical teardrop is 5'-wide (queen-size bed) and the smallest are generally 4'-wide.

Teardropping has transformed camping for me. Far more comfortable and secure sleep, permanently packed and don't even have to un-hitch so can arrive at camp late and there's no setup.

Many are home-made. Mine is made by the only manufacturer with dealers around the country and overseas. Quality and price-wise it's roughly the Chevy-Ford of the teardrop lot. The Cadillacs are "Camp-Inn" and "So-Cal."

Here are some teardrop links:

http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/

http://www.tinycamper.com/

http://www.socalteardrops.com/

http://www.golittleguy.com/teardrops/

http://www.amazon.com/Teardrops-Tiny-Tra...0823&sr=1-1

I think this subject is huge.
Even if a separate thread was started for women GEAR and other one for the CONCERNS, each will be fairly big thread.

Anyway, regarding gear, I hope the ladies find this video useful.

http://www.youtube.com/user/watuwaitn4#p/u/34/qjdQmKJ-aRc

Re: concerns, I once heard or read that women in thier period time should be real careful in the wilderness as animals (bears) can detect the smell.

It is something I came across in the net. I don't know if it is true. Maybe the experts can address this thought ... although I immediately thought of many women living in the woods and this hasn't become an issue.

Thank you for the info and the links. This is a really interesting subject, and the trailers are cool. I actually saw one of these on the highway yesterday. There are a lot of trailer dealers here, but no one that sells these. I am going to continue to research to see if I can find a local dealer.

Adventure Medical Kits has a new product -- Women-specific First Aid kit. I'm skeptical if all that's woman-centric about it is the items in red. "Cramp-relief medicine" is what I call Ibuprofen. Tampons - duh! (pre-menopause, anyway). Odor-proof bag... they have me there as the only bags I carry for day hikes are Gidget's clear poop bags and a dark green lawn bag (emergency poncho....)

But at least it isn't pink!

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/product.php?product=213

Women's Edition Outdoor

MSRP $40.00

In addition to medications, wound dressings, and blister care items, this kit includes all the items outdoorsy women have floating around somewhere in their pack. Make it easy on yourself and carry the only medical kit on the market designed for women.


Supply List

Bandage Materials
1 Dressing, Non-Adherent, Sterile, 3" x 4"
6 Bandage, Adhesive, Fabric, 1" x 3"
1 Dressing, Non-Adherent, Sterlie, 2" x 3"
2 Bandage, Adhesive, Fabric, Knuckle
2 Dressing, Gauze, Sterile, 2" x 2", Pkg./2
3 Bandage, Butterfly Closure
2 Dressing, Gauze, Sterile, 4" x 4", Pkg./2
1 Bandage, Conforming Gauze, 2"

Bleeding
1 Gloves, Nitrile (Pair), Hand Wipe

Blister / Burn
1 GlacierGel (Small Rectangular)
1 GlacierGel (Large Oval)
11 Moleskin, Pre-Cut & Shaped

Fracture / Sprain
1 Bandage, Elastic with Velcro, 2"

Instrument
4 Safety Pins
1 Splinter Picker/Tick Remover Forceps

Medical Information
1 Comp. Guide to Wilderness & Travel Medicine

Medication
2 Diotame (Bismuth Subsalicylate), Pkg./2
3 Antihistamine (Diphenhydramine 25 mg)
2 Diamode (Loperamide HCI 2 mg), Pkg./1
2 Acetaminophen (500 mg), Pkg./2
4 Ibuprofen (200 mg), Pkg./2
2 After Bite Wipe

Other
1 Blistex Lip Moisturizer, packet
1 Alcohol-Free Hand Sanitizer, .5 oz.
1 EZ-Towels, 4 in baggie

Women's Care Items
2 Cramp Relief Tablets, pkg./2
2 Leak-proof, Odor-proof bag, Tinted
2 Tampons, Applicator-Free

Wound Care
3 Triple Antibiotic Ointment, Single Use
4 After Cuts & Scrapes Anethestic/Antiseptic Wipe
1 Tincture of Benzoin Topical Adhesive
1 Tape, 1/2" x 10 Yards
1 Cotton Tip Applicator, Pkg./2

Barbie's Kit.

How did we live without this?

Sue

All I can say is that my FAKs have served a lot of women, as well as men, over the years. Fractures and bleeding are gender neutral.

VERY important. i haven't found a favorite yet.

i agree with Dagny about the ibuprofen and odor-free bag, but no maxi pads? I'll take a few of those over tampons in my first aid kit any day - they take up more space but they make great pressure bandages for wounds! I'd like to think that most of us have at least a vague idea when that time of the month is approaching so can prepare for it more proactively than relying on our first-said kit.

"...so can prepare for it more proactively ..."

Most of my stuff in that area was given to other women who were depending on dispensers that hadn't been refilled. PPPPP isn't just for military guys, is it?

Sue

Dunno if this kinda thing has been mentioned but maybe these things?

http://www.campmor.com/lady-j.shtml

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___88314

To fit a dog crate in my car last week I had to take my gear-hauler 99-gallon Action Packers out. Was a good opportunity to inventory and re-pack -- starting with clothes appropriate to fall-winter.

The big to-do remaining for packing the car is food. In re-reading this thread I was reminded of Hikermor's suggestion for canned foods. So am going to look at a mix of canned, freeze-dried (Mountain House) and Luna-MoJo bars. Not sure how much -- enough for 2 or 3 days, I think. Have to pack for Gidget, too.

Just now occurs to me I should get another can opener -- for the car.

So already a useful thread for me -- worthwhile to review occasionally. Thanks, Rebwa, for starting it.

Ladies,

Have you winterized your vehicle? Gives me peace of mind to know my battery is strong, tire tread is substantial and the car has fresh oil and the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval from my mechanic. One of my headlights went out last month and both have been replaced so that's bonus.

Also cleaned out the interior and re-packed it with road safety gear, survival gear, winter clothes, boots, some food and fresh water.

Later on I'll put chains in and a small snow shovel.

What do you all do to be road-ready in the winter?

An obvious winter priority in the event of being stranded is to be able to stay warm. To that end, I have in the car (Honda Element) a sleeping bag, boots, ski socks, long underwear, fleece hat/gaiter, mittens/gloves...

To be able to warm up from the inside I also have in there a Jetboil stove, Kelly Kettle and a few ways to start a fire.

For fire ignition, I have in the car (and in my backpack when hiking):

- matches (REI's "stormproof")
- lighter
- firesteel rods


For fire tender/fuel, I have in the car:

- magnesium rods
- vaselined cotton balls
- fatwood
- Diamond-brand Strike-a-Fire starters
- Duraflame log
- super-fine steel wool


Upon a recommendation in another ETS thread, I had bought from www.firesteel.com several different sizes of firesteel rods, their magnesium rod and "strikers."

Today I played with them in the rain. With surprising ease, the firesteel ignited a vaselined cotton ball in four strikes. With some magnesium scraped onto a vaselined cotton ball there was ignition in just two strikes of the firesteel rod.

I'm delighted by these www.firesteel.com fire-making tools. I have a few of the "Light My Fire" brand that REI sells but haven't used those much and can't say whether there is a difference, but many say there is.

So I highly recommend this combo from firesteel.com -- to be kept in the car and to be carried in a backpack or purse if some distance from home. Have decided that these will be central to a couple Hanukkah and Christmas gifts -- for my sister who drives up Mt. Hood frequently (Oregon) and a friend out here who has recently decided to keep some rudimentary survival stuff in her car (such as a blanket).

http://firesteel.com/products/FireSteel-Armageddon-with-Scraper-Lanyard-and-Magnesium.html

I also got one of the firesteel tube-compass devices they are now selling. Will post pics later. Firesteel, based in New Hampshire, got this stuff to me within a couple of days of ordering. Great product, great service.

Have begun sketching out the gift car kits that I'll assemble for my sister and my friend (who at my behest now carries a Fox-40 whistle at all times and started carrying Doug's e-PICO light after I used mine to find the cell phone she dropped). I'm organizing it around the basic categories and will include a list of items that they should add (such as flashlight+batteries, water). I list prices by some of the items that I'll have to buy and no price next to items that I will provide from my supplies. Occurs to me just now that I might throw in Doug's survival advice that he includes with his little CRKT knives. Any other suggestions? Don't want to add a lot more expense to this kit. At some point they're on their own.... And I haven't figured out what to put all this in.


Fire

Firesteel-scraper-magnesium $12.29
vaselined cotton balls
Fatwood
REI matches


Shelter

AMK heatsheets blanket $4.50
Paracord (orange)
Garbage bag (poncho)


Food+utensils

Luna Bars (2) $2.50
Fork-spoon $3
Stainless steel Sierra Cup $9.50
Tea bags


Tools

Knife (Mora #911 - carbon steel) $12.00
Compass (20mm) $3.59
Duct tape

And I haven't figured out what to put all this in.



These might be a tad large but hopefully they might add some gear.



Sorry can't get the link to work but they are on sale for $7.49

That is a nice price - thanks.

I'm inclined to put this stuff in a soft bag, or two. My friend has a Prius so is pressed for space.

Dagny, I have to say the vehicle kits are a great idea for gifts. You might want to include a Bandanna in a bright color, they can be found for under $2.

You’ve inspired me to put together a pocket sized survival kit for dogs for a couple of dog pals.


Ideas so far: Please chime in.

Gas-X

Antihistamine

Couple of pill pockets

vet wrap-- re-wrapped around a card

Gauze pad and non stick pad

spare leash made out of cordage

Vital signs card for canines

For containers, I'm thinking of either the witz container or the 1000 Otterbox.

Dog kits -- very nice idea!

Pepcid AC

Neosporin

Gold's Medicated Powder (hot spots)


For containers, I use LL Bean soft lunch boxes for kids.

Just had the tires and batt and windshield wipers changed as well as a service. Did the glass all the way around on the SUV myself with Rain-X and re-packed a container with compact sleeping bags, wool blanket, winter clothing, boots, body, foot and hand warmers. Checked all the emergency gear and batts. Put the snow peak stove with a couple of canisters back in and beefed up the fire making kit for winter. I too carry a small folding snow shovel all winter long but will also toss this one that I found yesterday in when snow is in the forecast, $19.95 at Costco. I also carry a portable batt box with tire inflator and it needs to be recharged fairly often, plus a tow line in case of slipping off a rural road.

http://www.suncast.com/productdisplay.aspx?id=413&pid=43

I have 4wd so I only carry chains if crossing the Cascades in the winter. I really dislike chains.

Then after all this was done, I noticed one of my fog lights was out last night--so back to the dealer today to get both changed.

The Mora knives I ordered from Ragweed Forge on Tuesday arrived today (Thursday). As happy customers have observed countless times on ETS, www.ragweedforge.com customer service is superb!

Because the model #840 that I got a couple years ago is currently out of stock, I went with the very similar #911 (carbon steel). The 911 costs $12 (plus shipping -- which is a flat $6 for all domestic shipments so I went ahead and bought a few of them). The 911 is in the "Modern Mora Knives from KJ Eriksson" section of the website:

http://www.ragweedforge.com/911.jpg

The 911 blade is slightly thicker (and arrived quite sharp). The handle is larger than the 840's -- yet still comfortable in my small hand. The great thing is the improved sheath the 911 comes with. Still a plastic sheath but, unlike the 840's, the 911 keeps the knife secured when you hold it upside down.

These knives really are a remarkable value. They aren't things of beauty like my Bark Rivers or anywhere near as refined or capable as Doug's MK3 (my fave but I won't leave it in the car, let alone give them away). But the Mora's are functional and a heckuva lot better than no knife at all. And they'll likely be stored full-time in a spare tire compartment (am hoping that won't be a problem with the carbon steel blades, perhaps should have gotten the stainless steel version?).

These Mora 911s are going into the car kits that I'm making for Hanukkah and Christmas gifts. My sister and friends, who are not knife aficionados, will think I spent a lot more than I did on the knife because they look like it and are marked "Made in Sweden."

I'll try to remember to take a photo of these kits as they come together. So far, I have the firesteel, scraper, vaselined cotton balls, steel wool and fatwood -- each individually wrapped in plastic bags and rolled up tight together in a cotton bandana emblazoned with First Aid tips.

Check if there's anything in the storage area under the floor with the spare tire.

Will do, thanks.