Synthetic Materials and Open Flame

Morning everyone,

I know we all realize that synthetic materials are not a great idea around open flames, but I would like to re-emphasize this point incase someone missed it.

I don't wish to discuss the circumstances of my situation, but suffice it to say I need a new coat. I did not come into contact with the flames, but evidently got very close.

Winter generally brings me into synthetics via outerwear and Under Armor type long johns. I am now reconsidering this, even though they are so very effective. The thought of having all of that crap scrubbed from burns is on my mind recently.

Oh yes, Get bigger fire extinguishers. I used two 5 LBS. ABC Dry Chemicals on this MVA/Fire. It was not enough, and the FD was not able to get there in time due to weather/road conditions. It was a very long night.

Food for thought.....

I generally use synthetics as underwear, but tend to wear wool for outer-garments (except for rain wear). While heavier, the wool will keep you warm even when wet and is very fire resistant. I have seen a several instances of people wearing synthetics and burned, it is not pretty. The synthetics become like an impossible to remove napalm, continuing to burn for long periods. While doing a stint with the British Paras right after they returned from the Falklands, they had moved completely away for the new (back then) polypropylene and back to natural fibers. They had several soldiers hit with white phosphorus, which is bad enough alone, while wearing polypro and nylon. The injuries were at least three times worse because of their clothing.

I hope you are OK Desperado.

Yeah, hope you're okay. Sounds like you had an unpleasant experience.

I love my synthetics, and wear them all winter. Nothing is more comfortable for me. No worries around a campfire except occasional "proof marks" from sparks. But the thought of a fuel fire scares the dickens out of me; I take extra precautions and/or switch to wool underwear in some situations.

I periodically look at the flame-retardant synthetics marketed for oilfield workers, but recoil in horror at the cost. Plus, I don't know if there are any health issues with the treatment chemicals; more research required. I did see a fleece hoodie the other day that felt like really comfy stuff.

Glad you learned rather than burned! I love the idea of warm, quick-drying synthetics but I stick to wools, silks, and cottons when by fires...which happens a lot. I wish I could find a high-quality silk Unionsuit long johns, that would be just about perfect for me.

-Blast

I've met several guys personally that have truly horrific burns due to polyester or nylon or whatever synthetic clothing catching fire - although all of them involved accelerant of some sort.

I've been wearing Nomex at work (oil & gas)for about 25 years - never heard about any health issues associated with 'em...

There is lots of good fire-retardent clothing available & yeah it's bloody expensive. Glad I don't have to pay for $300 coveralls & jackets out of my own pocket.

Many people don't realize that wool & leather are naturally flame-retardent. Both have pros & cons in the outdoors...

Synthetics also have pros & cons... quick-drying, water-proof, burn really well.

Once again I'll mention Stanfield Superwash wool underwear. Terrific in every regard. Blast; they have a one-piece, too.
No affiliation other than proud that they are Canadian company.

You know about wool so I won't go into the Filson (outerwear) and SmartWool (underwear/socks) investments I've made in recent years.

You might want to check out the nomex Inferno Jacket that Massif sells. That was my first piece of non-military issue nomex and it has held up well. I use it as a flight jacket.

Suffice to say I don't go near UnderArmor or other synthetic underwear. That stuff would just be too hard to shed in a fire. IMO the risks aren't worth it when wool and nomex clothing is available, specifically Massif's HotJohns long underwear. Good stuff, not hazardous to your health.

I bought 5 Stanfield tops through Sierra Trading Post
awhile back for $8 each. I wear them all the time and
they do wash up well. (These are the off white ones, not
the super heavy grey ones.)

Natural materials are nice, but lots and lots of folks have camped in cold weather and hung around campfires without serious injury.

The comfort and benefits of synthetics are just too good to stay away from them in winter.

Heck, thousands - tens of thousands - of Scouts winter camp without major problems, and they love hanging around the campfires.

Follow simple precautions and things will be OK.

It's great stuff, better than merino IMO, but I haven't been able to find it for years. My last pair of longs is in tatters. Do you know a retail source for it?

I prefer not to have certain things "shrunk-wrapped" as it is still needed.

I always wear cotton underwear, but wear all kinds of synthetic/wool outlayers. My thought is that if I'm worried about freezing to death, I probably don't have fire, or if I do, I should be able to take my wet underwear off. Sweating has not yet been an issue. I would love to find some wool underwear that doesn't have the itching side-affect.

BTW, does anyone know if the SmartWool(R) brand (or any other wool brand) is actually 100% wool, or is there other artificial stuff in it?

AFAIK, Smartwool long underwear is 100% merino wool. No itching side-affect that I've noticed -- been wearing it a lot lately. Smartwool socks are typically 73% merino wool/22% nylon/5% elastic. Again, no itch.

Stanfield's Superwash Wool is listed as 90% wool 10% nylon.
Nothing mentioned about it being merino, so probably isn't.
It's not itchy - don't know how they do that.
It is hard to find - I usually get it at The Bay.
Stanfields does sell some items online, but not all.
http://www.stanfields.com/
Just noticed they make some FR stuff as well.

Yes, I agree with all the above, to a point.
The 3 guys I know that suffered horrible burns were in 3 different incidents and all involved accelerant.
2 were propane, one was methanol.

The methanol victim was about 12 years old & fooling around with a jug of methanol.
Methanol burns with almost invisible flame - you can't see it in daylight.
He thought the fire was out & added more fuel.
Burning methanol splashed onto his nylon shirt, which ignited & melted into his side & arm.
Years later the scars were still impressive.
Had he been wearing a cotton shirt the injuries would have been much less.
Had it been wool, maybe no injuries at all.

We could say a 12-yr old shld know better, we could say he should have been supervised more closely...
but who hasn't done something dumb as a 12-year old?

I guess my point is that if I know 3 guys who have been burned due (partly) to synthetic clothing, then the statistics must be pretty high for the general public.

Almost all my dirtbike gear is synthetic. There are 3 gallons of gasoline in the tank in front of my crotch.
We often have a little camp-fire (sometimes a BIG camp-fire)
Things that make ya say 'hmmmm...'

If you can bear the cost Nomex makes a good material for clothing. They make stuff that looks like regular cloth now as well as industrial protective coveralls.
If you need warm stuff then the fleece they make is very warm.

The thing about Nomex is it takes more energy to burn than it releases so it does not become fuel for a fire while on your body.
Even cotton canvas burns real nice once you get it lit.

I am not sure if I worry more about synthetics melting to my body or about common natural fibers catching fire and burning.
Of course a material that catches fire and then sticks to you as it burns is likely the worst.

Maybe making sure you have a couple big buckets of cold water near your fire might be a good idea.
Not only would it put a clothing fire out but the rapid cooling of your burnt hide should reduce tissue damage a lot.

three gallons? If you have an ignition with that the nature of your clothing is likely to be irrelevant....

Things that make ya say 'boooommmm'...!

I know children's night clothing is (well, used to be?) required to be flame retardant. Is this still the case? Can the same be said for adult night wear?

Russ:
I was afraid the SmartWool socks had elastic or nylon in them. I guess if you want true flame proof, you have to go Nomex. Isnt that a pain to wash though?

Nomex is easier to wash than wool, about on par with cool-max -- machine wash cold and set the drier on a cool setting; if you have the time like I usually do, just let it air dry.

I am 100% certain that anything sold as sleepwear for children in the US has to meet a standard for being flame retardant. The CPSC regularly announces recalls for products that fail to meet the standard. As far as I know there is no such standard for adult sleepwear.

I would like to point out a few things about nomex.

It's not a miracle cloth, it should be treated and washed properly, and it sure won't keep you from getting burned.

Nomex is amazing because like others here have mentioned, it doesn't melt into a pile of self sustaining plastic fire.

Used properly, (this means layers!)Nomex can provide great fire protection and mitigate secondary burns.

Agree. Nomex doesn't support flame, but it also doesn't provide a lot of insulation AND once exposed to flame, it begins to break down and char. You really want layers to provide protection from ambient heat or cold, and heat from a fire. I wear either wool or cotton depending on environmental conditions. $.02