Don't take a gun to a bat fight?

Posted by: Susan

Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 08:53 PM

Don't take a knife to a gun fight. Or is that 'Don't take a gun to a bat fight'?

Urban Crime Control: The perp had two guns, and still lost the fight:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/11/phoenix_man_severely_beaten_by.php

From another article: "None of the residents, several of whom suffered cuts and bruises in the altercation, will face charges because they have the right to defend themselves... Pare, who is from Tucson, has quite a rap sheet, including, among other things, arrests for armed robbery and assault."

Oh, my! *grins*

Sue
Posted by: tomfaranda

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 09:07 PM

And they may charge the victims !?
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 09:13 PM

Well, as one person pointed out, once he was no longer a threat, they SHOULD have stopped. However, I think the guy got whathe deserved-be he will try to rob again though.
Posted by: Russ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 09:39 PM

Quote:
. . .Pare managed to get himself out of the courtyard and into the parking lot of the apartment complex, where he fled in a 2007 Dodge Nitro. He was located by the Phoenix Police Air Support Unit and taken into custody.. . .
Looks to me like was never out of the fight or unconscious since he was still mobile and could see well enough to drive. That being the case, he was still a potential threat.

Loved the reporter's vernacular:
Quote:
. . . found himself a baseball bat that he used to rearrange parts of Pare's head and face.
. . . - then it was party time.
Judging by the photo/mug shot, Pare's lucky to be alive. Baseball bat and a 2x4 and the guy walked out -- amazing.
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 10:10 PM

Dont get me wrong-I think the guy got what he deserved. But, the law will look at it as once he was disarmed, he was no longer a threat. Now, if it were me...the only two that wouldve witnessed any of it would be the burglar and myself-and, the only one left alive to tell the story wouldve been me...
Posted by: celler

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/04/09 11:41 PM

Never forget, there are two parts to any use of force situation. First, the physical fight, then the potential legal fight. The second one could be almost as dangerous if you live in a jurisdiction with an anti-gun, anti-self-defense prosecutor. Do yourself a favor and learn what is justified use of force in your jurisdiction. It will certainly be different in New York vs. Texas. Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 01:10 AM

Guns vs party... if that ever went to court, I would want some informed jury members in the box.

But in this case, the public sentiment could make prosecution embarrassing.

Sue
Posted by: scafool

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 01:20 AM

The Perp was lucky the folks at the party were so gentle with him.

Nobody decided to do his hands, wrists and elbows or his feet and knees.
I read nothing about broken ribs or bleeding kidneys either.
Not even a broken jaw and a few teeth gone.

Posted by: Pete

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 03:19 AM

One of the few good things about crime ... is that criminals often do stupid stuff. This story is no exception. Lucky the robber wasn't too careful about watching who was behind him. As for the party attendees - good for them!

Pete
Posted by: Redbeard

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 03:36 AM

this kind of stuff should happen to all criminals. i bet crime would REALLY drop.

every gangbanger who ever pulled a knife should get a visible scar from their would be victim to remind them of what a screw up they are.
Posted by: barbakane

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 04:18 AM

Originally Posted By: oldsoldier
Dont get me wrong-I think the guy got what he deserved. But, the law will look at it as once he was disarmed, he was no longer a threat. Now, if it were me...the only two that wouldve witnessed any of it would be the burglar and myself-and, the only one left alive to tell the story wouldve been me...

What an awesome comment. I haven't laughed like that at a post in a long while. Thank you!
Posted by: Dan_McI

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/05/09 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: celler
Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.


+ many.

If someone might cause you any legal problems, professional advice is almost always in order. Taking the time to talk with the lawyer provides time for you to calm down.
Posted by: 2005RedTJ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 05:23 AM

I had a guy tell me one time on another forum that in the event of a home invasion to get a good look at the perp so I could identify him to authorities. I told him identifying the perp would be pretty easy...

"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."
Posted by: celler

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ
<snip>"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."


Please understand that what I am about to say is intended to be helpful, not critical. I believe in your and my right to self-defense.

I hope you are never involved in a deadly-force situation and most of us never will. However, if by some stroke of fate you are and some over-zealous prosecutor decides that you "had it in" for the scumball that broke into your house and goes searching around the internet for your opinions on such issues, you don't want him finding that post.

The internet is not as anonymous as we think it might be. I never write anything that I would not want a judge to see.

In the situation you described, if I could determine that the threat had ended, I would render first aid to this individual and hope he lived. And believe me, I'm not a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. Some LEOs involved in use of deadly force are never able to come to terms with it and leave the profession. Its something to be avoided if at all possible and, at least for me, has led me seek to become more proficient in less-lethal responses.

As always, YMMV.
Posted by: sodak

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 02:34 PM

When I took my CCW class, they hammered it home that if you are ever involved in a shooting, ask for a lawyer and keep your mouth shut, no matter what the circumstances. As the above poster mentioned, things happen, and people with ulterior motives can find ways to trip you up.

My CCW instructor also mentioned that as LEO's go through their classes, they are also taught to be quiet and ask for a lawyer - and not discuss the shooting with other LEO's. So it's the same advice for all parties concerned, for your own protection.

He also mentioned the "time compression" phenomenom. In high stress, what seems like 10 minutes can be 30 seconds of real time. People get excited, don't know about this, and talk their heads off. It comes back to haunt them in court, they appear as an unreliable person or a liar if they get the time sequence wrong. Which they almost always do, because of this. Better to be quiet and ask for a lawyer.

It's too bad we have to think this way, but that's the way it is these days.
Posted by: comms

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 04:37 PM

so....after shooting a home invader, its NOT appropriate to twitter and send cell phone pictures to facebook?

Good to know. grin
Posted by: Pete

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 05:40 PM

You guys know the old saying ...

Better to be judged by twelve
Than carried by six!

You can never guarantee what will happen to you in a court of law in the USA. The important thing is to come out of this experience alive. Use as much force as necessary to guarantee your survival ... and then run the he** out of there.

After that, the more you talk - the more you create doubt about what happened. Keep it simple. "This guy said he was going to kill me, I was scared sh**less! I hit him ... and I ran."

End of story.

Pete
Posted by: Russ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 07:12 PM

Better to have the Grand Jury not indict.
Posted by: benjammin

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/06/09 09:29 PM

The best advice would probably be next time be better prepared for such an event. That way you can avoid witnesses/survivors and keep it contained. The outcome would be a lot more predictable if the picture was from the coroner's office instead of the booking station.
Posted by: 2005RedTJ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/07/09 04:09 AM

Originally Posted By: celler
Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ
<snip>"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."


Please understand that what I am about to say is intended to be helpful, not critical. I believe in your and my right to self-defense.

I hope you are never involved in a deadly-force situation and most of us never will. However, if by some stroke of fate you are and some over-zealous prosecutor decides that you "had it in" for the scumball that broke into your house and goes searching around the internet for your opinions on such issues, you don't want him finding that post.

The internet is not as anonymous as we think it might be. I never write anything that I would not want a judge to see.

In the situation you described, if I could determine that the threat had ended, I would render first aid to this individual and hope he lived. And believe me, I'm not a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. Some LEOs involved in use of deadly force are never able to come to terms with it and leave the profession. Its something to be avoided if at all possible and, at least for me, has led me seek to become more proficient in less-lethal responses.

As always, YMMV.


For me, the simple truth is that I can't determine another person's intent above and beyond the situation that they are in my house, uninvited.

I deal with people every day who've had a break-in or even a home invasion. My customer today had a home invasion 2 nights ago while they were in their bedroom. When a person breaks into your home, while you are home, I wouldn't think they are there to bake cookies.

Talking on a daily basis with people who've survived a home invasion puts things in a different perspective for me. Probably 90% or more of the people in the US think they are safe in their own home, but thinking that nothing bad can happen to you there is just living in denial.

My life and those of my family and friends are worth the minor hassle of me keeping a gun either on me or within arms reach. Due to what I hear every day from people who've been there, I'll never be one of those people who thinks you should just whip out the phone, dial 911, and smile knowing help is on the way.

I may be a little verbal about my opinions, but I believe strongly in my right to provide for the safety and security of anyone who I invite into my home.
Posted by: celler

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/07/09 05:57 PM

I do not question your motives, your methods, or your resolve. I do not disagree with a single word in your last post.

The only point I was trying to make is that we should prepare for the legal battle as much as the gun battle as both are seriously dangerous.

Your first post could have been read by someone motivated to paint you as a deranged vigilante in a potentially negative light. I understand that you are not and are what I call a "sheepdog", a term I use with honor.

In this crazy PC world we live in, we need to be prepared for the fight after the fight. The first step is to recognize that the second fight exists. That's my only goal with what I have said here.

Your loved ones are lucky to have someone like you protecting them and I wish you well.
Posted by: 2005RedTJ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 12:24 AM

Originally Posted By: celler
I do not question your motives, your methods, or your resolve. I do not disagree with a single word in your last post.

The only point I was trying to make is that we should prepare for the legal battle as much as the gun battle as both are seriously dangerous.

Your first post could have been read by someone motivated to paint you as a deranged vigilante in a potentially negative light. I understand that you are not and are what I call a "sheepdog", a term I use with honor.

In this crazy PC world we live in, we need to be prepared for the fight after the fight. The first step is to recognize that the second fight exists. That's my only goal with what I have said here.

Your loved ones are lucky to have someone like you protecting them and I wish you well.


I just have a tendency to be quite verbal about something I believe in very strongly. And my line of work and seeing what I see at work a lot of days leans me toward not taking crime lightly. I see so many situations that could have went very differently if some situational awareness were used, or a means to protect oneself were available.

Both in the military and in the civilian world I've gotten in a little trouble a few times for the fact that I always speak my mind. That's something that's not very common noawadays when everything is going all PC and touchy-feely.

Of course my girlfriend says I'd never actually have to shoot anyone or even draw a weapon, I'm that scary-looking. grin
Posted by: comms

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ


Of course my girlfriend says I'd never actually have to shoot anyone or even draw a weapon, I'm that scary-looking. grin


And there is something to be said for that. Speaking your mind, when someone speaks forcefully and with depth on a subject it tends to lend credence that that person is 'nutty' for the exact reason that they are unafraid of standing up for an idea.
Posted by: Alan_Romania

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 05:35 AM

There was more then likely more going on in this situation then the New Times reported or knew about... the "charges' comment may not have ANYTHING to do with the victims defending themselves...


Just sayin'
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By: celler
Never forget, there are two parts to any use of force situation. First, the physical fight, then the potential legal fight. The second one could be almost as dangerous if you live in a jurisdiction with an anti-gun, anti-self-defense prosecutor. Do yourself a favor and learn what is justified use of force in your jurisdiction. It will certainly be different in New York vs. Texas. Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.


Having been in law enforcement for eight years in the military, and two years in Oklahoma at the county level...

I am SIMPLY SHOCKED at what I learned constitutes a legal or "good" reason to shoot someone here in Texas......

Posted by: Desperado

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 12:56 PM

Originally Posted By: celler
Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ
<snip>"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."


Please understand that what I am about to say is intended to be helpful, not critical. I believe in your and my right to self-defense.

I hope you are never involved in a deadly-force situation and most of us never will. However, if by some stroke of fate you are and some over-zealous prosecutor decides that you "had it in" for the scumball that broke into your house and goes searching around the internet for your opinions on such issues, you don't want him finding that post.

The internet is not as anonymous as we think it might be. I never write anything that I would not want a judge to see.

In the situation you described, if I could determine that the threat had ended, I would render first aid to this individual and hope he lived. And believe me, I'm not a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. Some LEOs involved in use of deadly force are never able to come to terms with it and leave the profession. Its something to be avoided if at all possible and, at least for me, has led me seek to become more proficient in less-lethal responses.

As always, YMMV.


Once the threat has been stopped, it is a legal responsibility to render aid and call for help. As far as I know, that is universal in all 50 states.

My lawyer told me once the threat is neutralized I have two calls to make:

1) 911 to request (in this order) EMS and Law Enforcement. I am to say my name, location, and I have had to shoot an attacker. I am to tell the dispatcher I need EMS and LE. Then I am to ask the dispatcher to tell me when Law Enforcement arrives so that I may disarm and exit the structure (or whatever). This allows me to ensure a safe arrival for the LEO's, EMS, and me.

2) The second call is to my Lawyer. I am to tell the LEO's RESPECTFULLY, that I want legal representation and have nothing to say until it arrives.

During the time I am waiting for LE/EMS to arrive, I have a legal responsibility to ensure the subject is no longer harmed, and to render reasonable aid according to the levels of my current training.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ


"I just have a tendency to be quite verbal about something I believe in very strongly. "



Then, like myself, you are going to have to learn when to temper your words.

I have been working on this task for almost 39 years, and I figure I am about one third of the way to completion............. laugh laugh
Posted by: UncleGoo

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Desperado


1) 911 to request (in this order) EMS and Law Enforcement. I am to say my name, location, and I have had to shoot an attacker. I am to tell the dispatcher I need EMS and LE. Then I am to ask the dispatcher to tell me when Law Enforcement arrives so that I may disarm and exit the structure (or whatever). This allows me to ensure a safe arrival for the LEO's, EMS, and me.

2) The second call is to my Lawyer. I am to tell the LEO's RESPECTFULLY, that I want legal representation and have nothing to say until it arrives.

During the time I am waiting for LE/EMS to arrive, I have a legal responsibility to ensure the subject is no longer harmed, and to render reasonable aid according to the levels of my current training.


+1--Needs to printed and carried in the wallet...or engraved on the weapon.
Posted by: 2005RedTJ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/08/09 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Desperado
Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ


"I just have a tendency to be quite verbal about something I believe in very strongly. "



Then, like myself, you are going to have to learn when to temper your words.

I have been working on this task for almost 39 years, and I figure I am about one third of the way to completion............. laugh laugh


Yeah, I know. 40+ years myself.

All joking aside, unless I can clearly determine 100% for sure that the person I've drawn down on is someone who is not supposed to be inside my house, I'm not pulling the trigger.

I've been in that exact situation years ago when I was married. My in-laws were staying with us, and went out of town for the weekend. They returned a full 24 hours earlier than they told us they were going to without bothering to call. I drew down on the silhouette in the doorway at 3am and demanded to know who they were and what their purpose was in being in my house.

If I drew down on a bad guy I'd call 911 and keep the person at gunpoint, whether I have shot them or not, until the police arrive. If they make a run for it, I'm not about to shoot them in the back and get myself into a world of trouble. I have no medical training to provide much aid for the damage that a gunshot would cause. I would not be shooting them with a .22, so I have no doubt it would do major damage.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 01:42 AM

"Once the threat has been stopped, it is a legal responsibility to render aid and call for help. As far as I know, that is universal in all 50 states."

Is this the same as stopping to render assistance at the site of an accident (Good Samaritan), or is this specific to shooting someone?

Sue
Posted by: oldsoldier

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 11:54 AM

Susan, the Good Samaritan law isnt a requirement-it simply protects those who choose to give aid from legal action, as I recall. Like, you cannot be held liable for someones death if you render aid and, as a result, that person dies, or suffers permanent damage, so long as you were acting in I guess would be called "good concience".
As for shooting someone; I have ALWAYS been taught that you continue to pull the trigger until the person or persons are no longer a threat. My perception of that would be when they stop moving. Granted, I would give verbal commands prior to pulling the trigger-once the trigger is pulled, there is no taking that back. So you either neutralize the threat, or you die trying. My hope is for the former. Sorry, but I couldnt bring myself to attempt to render aid to someone who was intent on causing me & mine harm...it may be cruel and callous, but I see no need to render aid to someone who intended to murder me, or cause me or mine harm.
Posted by: celler

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 01:18 PM

Let's do a little exercise. Call it "write your own police report". Assume that this police report will be forwarded to the district attorney in your county and may end up being reviewed by the grand jury. Please choose either A or B.

Report A

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS . Resident advised suspect had broken into his home and advanced on him with a handgun after repeated verbal warnings. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel. Contacted Detective Smith to follow up tomorrow.

Report B

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 am. Suspect was lying face down with numerous gun shot wounds to the back. I checked for pulse and determined suspect was DOA. I questioned the homeowner who advised that he was awakened by a noise and found the suspect in his home. After yelling an obscenity at the suspect, the suspect turned to run. The resident then fired several rounds at the fleeing suspect with an AK-47. I observed what appeared to be smudged blood stains leading from outside the house into the residence indicating that the suspect may have been dragged into the residence. No weapon was found on the suspect. I asked the resident if he could identify the suspect. The resident responded that "all those gang-bangers look alike -- I say shoot 'em all and let God sort them out. I hope he rots in hell."

Further investigation determined suspect to be John Smith, 16 YOA, lives with parents at the same house address on the next street. Smith was apparently intoxicated and opened an unlocked door not realizing he was at the wrong home. I took the homeowner into custody pending charges.
Posted by: Russ

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 03:07 PM

Apples and Oranges
Posted by: haertig

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 04:42 PM

Quote:
Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest

While something like that may sound good in court, you have to make it into court in the first place. Which may not happen if that bleeding suspect decides he's not quite incapacitated yet and kills you first. "He's been shot, therefore he's harmless" is not a statement I'd buy into blindly.
Posted by: sodak

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/09/09 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: celler
Let's do a little exercise. Call it "write your own police report". Assume that this police report will be forwarded to the district attorney in your county and may end up being reviewed by the grand jury. Please choose either A or B.

Report A

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS . Resident advised suspect had broken into his home and advanced on him with a handgun after repeated verbal warnings. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel. Contacted Detective Smith to follow up tomorrow.

Report B

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 am. Suspect was lying face down with numerous gun shot wounds to the back. I checked for pulse and determined suspect was DOA. I questioned the homeowner who advised that he was awakened by a noise and found the suspect in his home. After yelling an obscenity at the suspect, the suspect turned to run. The resident then fired several rounds at the fleeing suspect with an AK-47. I observed what appeared to be smudged blood stains leading from outside the house into the residence indicating that the suspect may have been dragged into the residence. No weapon was found on the suspect. I asked the resident if he could identify the suspect. The resident responded that "all those gang-bangers look alike -- I say shoot 'em all and let God sort them out. I hope he rots in hell."

Further investigation determined suspect to be John Smith, 16 YOA, lives with parents at the same house address on the next street. Smith was apparently intoxicated and opened an unlocked door not realizing he was at the wrong home. I took the homeowner into custody pending charges.


Report C

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident covering suspect with shotgun, informing me that the suspect threatened to kill him if he came near. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel.

I choose C.
Posted by: Susan

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/10/09 04:50 AM

OldSoldier, I feel the same way you do. I was simply curious about the statement that had been made. I'm not going to approach a perp if he's standing up with bullet holes in him, if he's down with bullet holes in him, if he appears to be breathing or not, or if his head is 30 feet from his body.

By the time he hits the floor I am out of here, running down the street to Judy's house to call 911. And I'm not going back into the house until the LEOs assure me that he is dead and out of the house or alive, trussed and out of the house.

Sue
Posted by: Mark_F

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/10/09 04:31 PM

A few disclaimers to start:
1) I believe everyone should have the right to defend themselves.
2) Check with your local LEOs and probably an attorney for any responsibilities and legal ramifications as each locality is different.

The problem here appears to be that 911 was not promptly called and the supposed victims continued to assault the perp after he was disarmed. Not saying I think he didn't deserve it. He probably did. I am just wondering on the time frame between the initial assault and when 911 was finally contacted. I think we are all assuming it happened fairly quickly, but what if it didn't? If someone broke into your home and you disarmed them do you then have the right to hog tie and gag them and torture them for a few hours before calling the LEOs? Not much different from what might have happened to this guy. Don't gang up on me everyone, just trying to give you something else to think about. Always playing the devil's advocate, can't help myself.
Posted by: JohnN

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/11/09 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Susan
Don't take a knife to a gun fight. Or is that 'Don't take a gun to a bat fight'?


1) People underestimate the seriousness of blunt force trauma. A baseball bat is truly a lethal weapon. It isn't like the movies.

2) Lecture why not to talk to cops, pt 1 & 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

-john
Posted by: Mark_M

Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? - 11/22/09 12:52 AM

Originally Posted By: celler
Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.

That is the best free legal advice ever given. Give name, ID, your lawyer's phone number and admit no fault. Sort through the rest after you've calmed-down and spoken to your attorney.

Most people will try to give too much detail too quickly, and the officer may misinterpret things or not be able to accurate record everything you say. If it ever gets to court, opposing attorney will pounce on every opportunity to twist your words around or invalidate your testimony. It stinks, but I've I've had it happen to me and others I know.