Snakes & Pistol Shot Shells..Effective??

The "Mr Slither" post reminded me of this question. Gloria and I are in Apache NF in NM. We do a lot of hiking of both private and NF land. Locals have advised us to "carry" whenever we hike (for Bear, wolf, dogs and cats). I was considering putting a shot shell in Cylinder #1 of our revolvers.

I carry a Tarus Tracker .44 magnum and Gloria packs a .38. Would the commercial shot shells be an effective remedy for "Mr Slither"??

Note, We are not "see it kill it" types. We are from Maine and have spent the better part of our lives in remote areas. However...things do happen.

Also, after friends have fired about 50 shot shells through a tracker with the ported muzzle, we noticed a warning on the commercial shot shell packages that they were not to be used with this type gun. We did not notice any problems.

Any idea why the restriction? I assume it has to do with pellets coming out of the ports.

I know in .45 LC it is effective at close range. Just be aware of your backstop. I was popping lead pimples after the first time I tried it. I got DARN lucky my cheap sunglasses stopped the one headed for my eye.

I just never thought about the lead shot ricocheting back at me.

I prefer a stick to push it away and a knife to cut the head off if needed...

Honestly, you are better off with a staff or stick than those shotshells. Save the cylinders in your revolver for more dangerous critters. For the most part, the snakes will get out of your way if they have a chance. Be aware of your surroundings and don't mess with them.
The majority of bites in this country happen to young men messing with snakes. Snakes take a dim view of being handled by humans.

Depending on the size of the snake, I can hit it with a regular round. I shot a spent shotgun shell from 20 yards or so today with my Ruger 10/22. I can do the same from 10 yards or so with my .45acp.

I say practice with the ammo you regularly carry so you don't have to worry about switching all the time. Also, if you're carrying to protect from bears or other large animals, you might not have time to get more than one shot off. And a bear or other decent-sized animal isn't even going to feel those pellets.

First, assuming you don't actively pursue one, odds are you won't get close enough to any snake to worry about it. Snakes tend to move away from people. We are simply not the sort of animal they like to eat. We are way too big.

Second, your average snake is a lot more even tempered than your average human. I have seen a number of people freak out when they realized they were just a few inches away from a snake but I have never seen a snake freak out. Mostly, even when awakened suddenly, they just slither off. Striking only when molested or stepped on. Mess with me or step on me and I have been known to get riled myself.

All that means your not likely to need to attack a snake. Not if your interest is genuine defense and not pursuing a vendetta based on fear.

Assuming your in one of those extremely rare situations when dealing with a snake is necessary a stick is your most effective and efficient tool. Mostly used to bump the snake and get it going away from you. Sometimes used to flip a snake off a narrow path where there aren't alternative routes. As a last resort it can be used as a a club. A good stick, I like thick-wall bamboo about 25 or 30 mm in diameter and 120 to 130cm long, is quite adaptable.

Save the artillery for actual, as opposed to imagined, threats and those jobs it does well.

Corrected for spelling.

I dunno folks. True, I've been within inches of rattlers, twice - once I got the rattle (which, for those who haven't heard it, sounds a LOT like the sprinkler systems that pop up at dusk to do the 90 degree arc in spurts, before shooting back around to restart). The other time was about 5am and too cool for it to move much.

BUT... in Virginia I was blocked on a trail a good 20 minutes before I gave up, by some sort of snake. I'm a Cali boy, so who knows what it was, but given my environment, I figured a cottonmouth was the worst-case scenarion. I didn't find a convenient stick to clear the path. In all fairness, it didn't seem too ruffled or threatening, so in no way was I worried about it attacking.

My point? Not all snakes leave when given the chance.

Art, in a confined space, I would rather have the shot load than do the snake charmer dance with a screwdriver and a broom.

Stick.

A big stick.
(because snakes need to be tenderized you cook them)

A stick is the first choice, but a .revolver with shotshells is a nice backyp.

I'd have to agree w/ Art. Stick for snakes, artillery for other things.

Shotshells are effective on birds at short range. Granddad used them in a .22 rifle to remove the pest birds out of his cherry tree. I haven't seen them used on snakes but they should work, especially from larger calibers.

I appreciate the comments. We are from Maine where snakes are not a problem. I like the stick idea as we almost always carry walking sticks.

Thanks Folks..
Nomad

Stick all the way. Preferably something like a 5-6' hazel sapling. It really works, doesn't require fine motor skills like a gun, doesn't raise any eyebrows and can be used as a non-lethal deterrent if possible. If there is no other way a quick blow pretty much anywhere along the body will snap the spine instantly. Follow up with a coup de grace - crush the head.

Sounds brutal and it is but that's life. One should avoid killing wildlife if at all possible but if you have no choice a stout stick is a good defense against a snake.

With a stick you can kill a whole herd of snakes without needing to reload.

The incident of snake bites have dropped by a huge amount of the last few decades as people have stopped trying to kill them with sticks.
You are much safer just ignoring them.

There are an awful lot fewer snakes around now too.
The days when migrating herds of rattlers slithered across the great plains as far as the eye could see are long gone.
It seems it was the development of the automobile and paved roads that drove them almost to extinction.

Once when I was out in the middle of the desert I almost ran over a rattler when I was driving out to the pay phone (Salt River Rec). Made a mental note to get it off the road on my way back. Driving back, I couldn't find it. Pulled off to the side to walk the road and almost stepped on it when I got out of the car. It's nothing personal, but I don't pull over for snakes anymore.

Oh, and I vote for stick. Save the round for something that needs it. Now having said that, I remember when a Mojave rattler treed a buddy. A shovel solved that when we stopped laughing.

For the most part, I agree with Art. Rattlesnakes and copperheads tend to ignore you or leave.

I have, however, run into cottonmouths/water moccasins while stationed in Alabama, and they break the rules. For them, a long stick and machete work really well. They are very aggressive, and I had one circle around and come at me from behind.

They don't taste that good, either.

Snake hook:

http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=7542939.6772&p_id=14000&xm=on

Or, a stick with a bend in it. Though those aren't always handy, as someone noted above.

If a snake just isn't moving from where you need to go, gently lifting it out of your way with a hook will do the job.

I have nothing against firearms as such. There may be times and places where a firearm might be really handy to have on hand. Say ... falling into an old dry well or mine shaft and landing on a couple of snakes, who immediately take offense, and I might wish I had a gun loaded with shot shells to help 'pacify the natives'.

But I have been on this planet a bunch of years and so far I have never felt any great need for such equipment. I did come close to feeling a need for a firearm when one day when I was making my way in a crawl space and became aware of a large rattler as my eyes adjusted to the darkness. The snake was about six feet away but it felt much closer because I was on my belly in a confined space with no way to get away quickly. Snakes, even ones which seem unconcerned with your existence, seem much more dangerous when they are at eye level.

I back pedaled a bit and took a deep breath. I ran the snake off by tossing handfuls of sand at it. After calming down a bit I got on with the job. I'm not fearless around poisonous snakes. Staying calm can take a considerable conscious effort. I find it helps to carefully consider the situation. If I haven't been bit I figure either the snake can't bite me, or it is disinclined to bite me. Sooo ... if I don't do anything to change that odds are I will remain unbit.

Then again if I was required by my job to jump blind into confined spaces commonly inhabited by poisonous snakes on a regular basis I might be tempted to pack iron. Iron loaded for ... well ... snake. IMHO a light pump or double barrel shotgun, ideally a 20ga, loaded with #7 would be what I would carry. Most pistol-sized shot shells, topically loaded with #9 shot, are too light to reliably do the job.

The contradiction for me is that pistol-sized shot shells work but you have to be close. If your that close opening distance would be wiser. If your not that close the snake isn't an immediate threat so there is no need to shoot it.

If there was a bear in your way ... would you shoot it too?

Not to get all Sierra Club/Green Peace on you, but at some point humans need to realize that we are all sharing this planet and need to allow each other to take some space. Seeing a snake, frog, coyote, deer, or any other wildlife is always ALWAYS a thrill to me. That is part of what I enjoy about being outdoors.

Now, if that snake is in your house, that's a safety issue, but on the trail ...

If you can't just walk around it then I like the idea of tossing some dirt or small stones to encourage the snake to find another place to sun. No harm done.

Well Ken, I would get myself a really, really big stick so I could poke at the bear until it moved away. If it did not leave I would use the stick to tenderize the bear enough to eat it for lunch.


If I was going into bear country I would be carrying a gun. Either a 12 gauge or a rifle of at least 30 caliber. (306 preferred)
That does not mean I follow a shoot on sight policy, it just means I prefer having at least a slight chance in case I messed up so bad that a bear intends turning me into bear poop.

I've camped in bear country, mainly in CA, and never felt the urge to have a gun. Of course, it's nearly always black bears. A few rocks, some yelling, and most are taken care of. The exception was one night where I was in my tent with something sniffing around it for 2 hours. I can't prove it was a bear, but I don't think I'd have blindly shot at whatever it was.

Now, grizzly/polar bear country probably would be a different idea. Though, on my last trip to AK, I didn't end up bringing a shotgun (for those that remember that thread)

I am very glad you don't shoot wildly at strange sounds in the night.

Just go around the snake. If you happen to be in a two foot wide canyon where you can't do that, then just back up and go elsewhere. We used to have tons of rattlers on our south Texas farm. We wouldn't kill them unless they were inside the fenced yard or in some other way potentially dangerous to the younger kids running around cluelessly. We did end up having to take out quite a few of the buggers near the house, but not out in the fields where they were no threat at all. I hate snakes - not fear them. I think I hate them because they move in such a creepy way. Always startles me and sends shivers up my spine when I run into one. But you don't need to kill them for that.

Just did that myself riding a bike trail a couple weekends ago. I saw the snake and pointed and yelled snake as I went over it, just lifted my feet up.

Nomad: To answer your question about whether commercial shotshells would be effective against Mr. Slither, the answer is a qualified "yes". As Nighthiker has already pointed out, you tend to get a donut pattern shooting shotshells out of rifled barrels, even 2" snubbies (I've tested this on paper targets).

While I have never killed a snake with shotshells, not even Mr. Slither whom I met personally, my actual source for the qualified "yes" is my brother in Iowa who regularly mows about 3-4 acres of farmyard infested with all sorts of snakes. He hates snakes and, regardless of all their potential benefits, he doesn't want them in his yard, or around his barns and other outbuildings. When he mows, he always has his .38 Spl Smith and Wesson M&P with the 4 inch barrel on him, and he uses it several times every time he mows to kill snakes up to several feet long (mostly those are bull snakes in Iowa).

Perhaps you've already done this, but if you decide you want to use a shot cartridge in your revolver, I'd suggest that you get a few largish pieces of butcher paper, draw a rough sketch of the size of snake you expect to encounter on it with a magic marker, and then (aiming at the snake head) try shooting a shotshell at a couple of those targets so you can see the shot distribution pattern. That way, you will have some idea how to alter your aim (if necessary) to provide the best concentration of shot where you want it. Even if you don't intend to carry a shotshell in your gun, this is an interesting exercise. My .38 snubby stainless Rossi (which I like very much BTW), throws about a 16" pattern at about 8-10 feet with a slight donut hole distribution of shot. So, if I were wanting to hit a snake head-sized target with the greatest concentration of shot, I would not aim directly at the target but about 4 inches one way or the other.