Grammar Groan

Today, for the first time ever, I corrected a post strictly because of a grammatical error. We all have our little quirks, I write professionally, so some things drive me batty. I'll let you in on my two "nails on a chalk board" writing errors.

1. Effect/Affect.

When I see something like this:

"The change to digital television didn't effect us, because we use cable TV." it's like I just heard a shotgun blast at three feet without my hearing protection.

The correct way to phrase that sentence is, "The change to digital television didn't affect us, because we use cable TV."

Think of it this way - effect is used to describe what the initiator of the action did, affect is use to describe what the action did.

So, for example, "The changes effected by the FCC to implement digital television have affected everyone who does not have cable television."

Or, "He effected changes to the office policies that affected everyone."

Or, "The affected areas will need to be decontaminated with an effective disinfectant."

Well, now that that's out of the way, let's move on to the next area that annoys me to no end.

2. Quotation mark abuse.

A pair of quotation mark is never used for emphasis:

Please do "not" close the door. (This is horrible).
The "fire exit" is to the left.

Quotation marks are used to indicate a quotation - like this:

"Marty seems to have gone off the deep end with his post about grammar on the equipped board", said co-moderator Charlie.

If you're not quoting someone, or to indicate a specific use of a phrase, then you are actually using quotes to negate your statement or to indicate sarcasm.

For example, you want to convey that a politician is not honest:

Well, we all know how "honest" he has been in office.

Or, when you want to indicate that something you're saying is intended as a sarcastic statement:

We just "love" when it rains all week long when camping out.

You can certainly know if you're abusing quotation marks by saying the words "So-called" or "it isn't really" or "not really" right where you see the first quote.

They make the (so-called)"best" cakes.

This way to see the (it isn't really) "finest" example of woodcraft.

Increase your energy with a (not really)"healthy" snack.

I strongly advise everyone to see http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/
for many more examples.

Oh, my meds are kicking back in. OK, I'll stop now.

Thank you, carry on.

I think it is an affectation.

Back in the 60's, I had a weather changing machine that was, in essence, a sophisticated heat beam which we called a "laser." Using these "lasers," we punch a hole in the protective layer around the Earth, which we scientists call the "Ozone Layer..."

the quotation mark thing might be a product of not having any great way to add emphasis to your thoughts. ex. 'I have a *big* problem with stinking feet'. Others might use quotation marks in lieu of *.

well from my point of view it's just a computer post and not a
ph.d paper.if i was any good and knew what i was doing i would have my own blog or be writing books.everyone gets the idea and over the web it's hard for many of us to get a point across or even spell everything right without the checker.i use the " or -- as sort of a replacement for body language.!!--

Well, its good to see that inappropriate apostrophes' don't affect you as you boldly go forward to express your disdain about inappropriate verbiage usage and quotations.

Must admit that one of my pet hates is abuse of the English language. If English isn't your first language its acceptable to make mistakes, as long as they aren't deliberate.

On another point TXT SPK MKS me want to take your phone off of you and shove it where the sun fails to shine.

Something seems to cry fowl here. Irregardless, the goodest response from me would be to remain moot. Anyways, it's always gooder to here from you.

I'm with JohnO. The one that kills me lately is people who post like they are texting. If you are too lazy to spell out the word "to" then perhaps the internet is too hard for you and you should just give up.

Example, girl gets a new car for her birthday. Her mom asks her how she felt about her birthday present. Her reply, to mom and others on the forum:

"yupp 09 Chevy cobalt.
and yes mom it was okayy cuz u know i wanted 2 spend the day with JD and tht didn't happen.
yes i know i went everywhere and thank you 4 taking me, but i still have sumthing tht i hafta do. and its 4rm me"

I at least get that "2" is easier to type than "to", marginally thought it may be. But, typing "yupp" instead of "yes" or "okayy" instead of "okay" means you are actually typing MORE than you have to. It's not cute like they think it is, it just makes them look stupid as well as lazy. Would you hire someone who filled out a job application with that nonsense? I know I wouldn't.

I take the opposite view. I think bad grammar can be funny, especially when it is tortured by a master such as Archie Bunker.

As long as I can decipher what a person is saying or means, I just go with the flow.

Besides, the natural order of things for people who correct others' grammar on the Internet is for them to flub up.

Was the edit to change from the inappropriate verb (or would that be the noun) effect to affect the verb or the noun usage?


The verb usage.


The noun usage has a completely different meaning.

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too
Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.
i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it


Got that in an e-mail the other day. Grammar has been deteriorating for decades. The Internet has more people writing than ever before, perhaps there will be some benefit from that. Texting is another ballgame. I dread text messages, responding is tedious and I haven't done it enough to learn the shorthand.

Bravo!

I deal with text messages by totally ignoring them.

Some people (esp the young ones) think what they're saying or writing is cute (kewl rather than cool), but most of the time it's just ignorance. I know that there are phrases or sentences that simply sound more natural ending in a preposition, but some people just drive me crazy with their version of passed-along ghetto jivespeak...

"Where you goin' to?"
"Where you at?"
"Where you fixin' to do that at?"

But when I hear a schoolteacher say it, I simply shudder.

And there really is a difference between "axeing a question" and "asking a question", even if you are from Jersey and surrounds.

Really?
It seems like things have been a little bit slow around the ETS Forum lately... but, can't you find something better to do?... this 'aint the "Equipped to be an English Major" forum!

There have been other forums I enjoyed in the past, that I left when their tone became too arrogant. I really hope that doesn't happen here.

I also do a lot of writing as part of my work. Others where I work ask me to edit their writing (even my son, the self described hillbilly, asks me for such advice when his friends aren't around to hear him). I am amazed at the inability of most people to spell, avoid sentence fragments, use proper grammar, and on and on and on. Surely texting is a major culprit but I know it goes beyond that because it was bad twenty years ago when I insulted a coworker who had written a sentence that simply made no sense. I'm still making up for that.

I have since stumbled across a joke that bears repeating here.

A cowboy went into the city to get some much needed information. He stopped a well dressed man and asked "Excuse me, do you know what street the library is on?" The man, a professor at the city's University, replied "Sir, I do not answer questions that end in a preposition." The cowboy smiled and said "Do you know what street the library is on, @$$hole?"

Anyhow, I have long since gotten over it all. If someone asks, I edit/correct/suggest. If they don't, I look for their message and usually find it. It still drives me up the wall ... I simply ignore it and move along. If I can't tolerate someone's mangling of the language - I pretend I didn't hear/read it. Not easy but worth the effort.

My $.02.

There is a rumor that Winston Churchill got annoyed when someone corrected his sentence so as not to end it with a preposition, and Churchill said, “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.”

On these boards, I usually do a 'Quick Reply', which doesn't have the option of the italics, and I'm too lazy to highlight and copy everything, then go back to a reply to the particular person, paste the original in, and then italicize certain parts.

I'm fair at grammar, but I don't mind if someone corrects me. Well, if they're right, anyway. Sometimes it's just a typo, sometimes I don't proofread. And, sometimes I'm just wrong.

That ignorance is bearing some fruit already. Some time ago I saw an interview with a company spokesperson. This person said that the company want some trainees for an office job really badly but none of the applicants could master basic math, basic spelling and basic grammar. So none of of about 300 applicants was fit to even start the training let alone complete it successfully.
Ironically the common availability of spellcheckers seems to promote errors in grammar and spelling.
The bad spelling and grammar also affects the efficiency of communication. Sometimes it changes the meaning of a sentence. If you are lucky the new meaning does not make sense and you have figure out the real meaning. If you are less lucky someone will suffer from the consequences of a misunderstanding.

Disclaimer:
I am not a native English speaker, so please bear with me if you find some errors and feel free to point them out.

I was doing some work a little while ago for a local school system and had to work in several different local schools. The total use of Ebonics and poor English by the TEACHERS was what got me. Ebonics may be fine for out on the street, but in a classroom setting where you the one who's supposed to be setting the standard and teaching the kids?

No wonder the kids talk like that.

I cannot help myself. I believe you intended to type quotation marks, not quotation mark. Smells like abuse.

Notice also I did not use a contraction or the word that after notice. I am a that/which wacko myself.

Oh, overuse of emoticons drives me up the wall.

My $.02

If you want to have some fun, ask a teenager to have a conversation with you without using the word "like". Drives them batty. My daughter just can't do it.

Cheers,
LW

+ a bunch on that one. Just like "UMM", it is a verbal pause. I tell them to slow down and let the words come out at their own pace. I was able to teach my kids that along with the old "move your lips when you speak." The aforementioned phrase is demonstrated with great exaggeration. It got the point across. It is amazing how many compliments DW and I received about how well our children spoke. Made me feel as though I got at least one thing right.

haha grammer nazi op dont lik it wen we dont talk right in teh internets he wants us all to use spellcheck and BRAINS i thing he shud liten up omg lol wtf bbq!!!11!


Seriously though, I get a bit irked when people can't be bothered to exercise the most basic grammar skills -stuff that we all, presumably, learn before the second grade in elementary school. "Typos" get a pass because a few mistakes are inevitable now and then, but at least make an effort to not look like you were nearing lethal inebriation when you typed the message. Especially on a message board, where you have plenty of time to proofread your message and even go back to fix errors after posting, there's no excuse for something like my opening line.
This and other language-related quirks(such as my tendency to churn out Adams-esque walls of text when excited) I blame on my having been raised by a teacher and a rocket scientist.

I hate the new spell checkers which separate words. Microsoft Activesync is listed wrong so everyone corrects it to Active Sync. So when it has a problem and you go search for forums, you have to search both with and without a space and if you don't know to do two searches you may miss the answer to the current problem.

My pet peeve is people using the word less when they should be using the word fewer.

Mostly this is a problem when people are speaking. Online I take it as given that spelling, often just mistyping, slightly off sentence structures and loose grammar are to be overlooked. It is part of giving the poster the benefit of the doubt. Of recognizing a common intention to engage in quick and easy communication, and focusing on the message being transmitted instead of the mechanics of how it is delivered.

When someone points out such errors online I immediately assume the person is either a prig taking a cheap shot to demean someone or someone who is being incredibly naive in their assumption such correction will be well received and helpful.

Professional communicators should know things like the less/fewer thing as part of their professional skill set and in their case sloppy grammar hints at sloppy professional standards. Working class stiffs get judged much less harshly.

That said the ability to speak and write clearly is a valuable skill. Sloppy speaking habits, like excessive insertion of 'um' and 'you know', rising valley girl inflection that makes every statement sound like a question, and mumbling can rob a person of their ability to focus and organize people in a crisis. Good, even if a somewhat less than perfect, grammar and clear, direct delivery gives a person an air of authority, and an edge in taking charge.

Something simple, like a shirt with a collar, can have people assuming your in charge. A hardhat and clipboard are so effective in conferring authority that they might be considered a disguise if your not actually endued with authority.

Do you mean in the style of Douglas Adams? As a software engineer I noticed that most of my colleagues understand and speak it well. For non-software people it is like talking in an unknown foreign language.

Sometimes precision matters and sloppy grammar can change the meaning.
Sometimes people point out errors that a person makes consistently. That is intended to be helpful. As a rule of thumb the advice is less welcome if it is really needed.
Depending on the topic of the forum everyone may be judged harshly. A couple of weeks ago I found a thread where a moderator gave a hint to a person with poor writing. He pointed out that it did matter:

• when you do not bother to try proper writing why should we bother to figure out?
• If we try to figure out, we might be wrong and give bad advice.
• High voltage experiments require following the rules carefully. We do not trust people with your writing to be aware of it.

you're

The posts about ending sentence with preposition reminded me this funny video - Downfall of Grammar.
By the way I am not against proper grammar at all.

It would be great to be able to edit the posts here for longer time than it´s now. Since English is not my native language I make some mistakes from time to time. (Sorry for that. I am trying to get better every day though.) But if I don´t spot my mistakes immediately I can´t correct them later because the editing of the post gets locked very soon.

Grammar, terminology and spelling are always in flux. One of our founding fathers said that 'anyone who cannot spell a word in more than one way was a fool'. Standardization of spelling and grammar, rigid rules and standards are a relatively recent concept. Most of it taking hold in the 1800s.

Many of the finest pieces of literature are full of grammatical errors. Are you going to say Joyce or Shakespeare weren't good writers because they failed to follow modern grammar and spellings?

Technical writing often deserves closer attention but specialists within a field often don't use normal language. Instead they use slang, acronyms, and words-of-art. Most of which are not found in any dictionary.

English is particularly adept at adapting and absorbing anything useful.

Try reading Chaucer. His treatise on the astrolabe is a real treat and can be found on Internet Archive in their texts section.
Almost impossible to read but it sounds almost normal as you read it out loud.

Actually, this is posted as a "Quick Reply", and it does have italics. There's a clue if you look to the left when posting: it says "UBBCode is enabled". The UBBCode for italics is an 'i' in square brackets: [i ]like this[/i ], but without the spaces.

There's a button to "Switch to Full Reply Screen", which may help. It will preserve what you've written so far.

Raptor, your English is better than that of at least half of the population of the U.S.

My one-word knowledge of maybe five languages and my ten words of Spanish simply can't compete.

Thanks a lot, Susan. It still needs a lot of work though.