Man in south Sacramento drives off attacking teens

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/cri...pluck_commented

Going to happen more as economy continues to decline and near 600k people are losing unemployment in the coming months.

Glad he could protect himself somewhat and was able to get away!!

Five attackers. One a 13-year old. Looks like they weren't accustomed to someone fighting back.

Not to get a Self Defense / Politics thing going here, but it really is too bad he was prevented from having the adequate means for defending himself.

ah, kids these days! Why didn't they beat the sucker down and take his knife too! It just goes to show you, never send boys to do a man's job.

Seriously though, he is very lucky they didn't take his knife and used it to cut him up.
That is if the story that he got jumped is really true.
Excuse me for being a sceptic, but so far it is just have his word for it and the story might be that he attacked the kids with the knife first.

They do have a couple of the kids, so it's not like there's only one version.

I live in south Sacramento on the southern boundry and I know this area though it is more north of me. Not a good place in general to be walking around. I have said in the past that I don't wish to live in a society where I have to carry a concealed weapon just to feel safe, but times are changing. The sheriff in this county is very anit-CCW. It is almost impossible to get a permit. Also they did not get any federal funding and the county will be laying off 192 deputies very shortly. So here we are being told we can not protect ourselves and the police are becoming more and more impotent especially since they could never provide any real immediate protection. I am getting to the point that this is enough, and I will do what ever is needed to protect me and mine. I have cleaned and organized my weapons closet and I am now considering what I need to start carrying with me for defensive protection beyond less than lethal. I am not of a survivalist mentality and this is not a political debate. It is a coming reality for me and I will be prepared.

What ever you decide, do it legally. It could be a real problem in California to be facing any minor legal issue, and then it comes to light that you are armed. IIRC that takes everything to a whole different level.

You need to consult an attorney IMHO.

I agree with you Desperado and thanks for the advice. Again it boils down to what you are allowed to do, die legally or go down fighting. It is heading to the point of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I would prefer not to carry and though it may not be here yet, when it does, I will be ready.

Homer,

I hear some misgivings in your post about your willingness to carry.

If you have those questions in your mind, even in the darkest recesses, you need to really think this one through.

A weapon of any kind (lethal or less lethal) is not an be all end all safety device.

I can promise you that all of the problems begin after you have decided to remove any weapon from its method of carry, and they don't end for years and years.

Before you make the decisions it is time to do some soul searching, and time to gain some education.

I know I am starting to sound like someone's parent here, but remember there is more to this than meets the initial inspection. You will have to live or die with your decisions, so make them informed decisions.

I'm done.

Good Luck

Eldo county I heard is easier... I haven't started my process yet but heard its a lot easier than Sac county.

There are some 'protection' type knvies but I don't know much about them, they are slatned/curved??? Maybe someone knows more.

Never NEVER enter a knife fight by choice.

The only thing keeping it from being a gunfight is your opponent forgot his gun.

If things have gotten bad enough to enter knife fighting, and you have no one else to take care of, you forgot one other respectable weapon....

Your feet. Now RUN like your life depends on it, because it does.

If you ARE going to "pack/strap"Remember this:Leave your Middle Finger,at Home!

Even more important than carrying the proper tools to defend yourself with is awareness of your surroundings. Wherever I go, I'm always looking to see what's going on around me. I'm a big fan of making eye contact with shifty-looking people, make sure they know that you see them and am prepared for whatever they're thinking of doing.

A lot of the stories you see on the news about people being robbed or worse are the same people you see walking down the street, in their own little world, staring at their shoes.

I've had many occasions where someone just looked very shady and seemed to be working up the courage to try something. 95% of the time, just standing your ground and making good, solid eye contact has made up their mind for them. It may not hurt that everyone I know says I'm a very mean-looking guy.

For the other 5% of the time, they were more than a little surprised when I drew down on them with my 9mm I used to own before I bought the .45 I carry now. I firmly believe in the "speak softly and carry a big stick" philosophy - AKA peace through superior firepower.

I couldn't agree more. I've always said that if someone was coming at me with a knife, I would run at least until I could get a bead on the attacker, on duty or off. I've watched the training videos and getting sliced and diced isn't anything that I ever care to experience.

It is my understanding that in most, if not all, jurisdictions, "running away" (as my nephew puts it) is your legal duty. You must try to avoid the fight. Failing to run away, or at least trying to run away, might make you partially legally responsible for whatever happens. Your right to defend yourself may not exist if you could have run away and did not.

All law is local and it is best you understand what the local rules are before you need to act.

Not in Texas.

I was actually shocked what situations the use of lethal is acceptable for when I was in my CHL class. So much so I retained an Self Defense attorney to verify it all.

Interesting article and interesting comments about it. Several thoughts came to mind as I read this. Bravo to the gentleman in Sacto. If that happened more often, the events would occur less frequently.


1. Tried by 12 or carried by 6, you choose. Personally I'll take my chances with a jury.
2. First rule of unarmed combat, NEVER be unarmed.
3. I don't carry a weapon because I want to shoot or kill someone. I carry because I don't want to be beaten, robbed, or killed and I won't let that fate befall my family or friends.
4. I want to die at an old age in my bed, NOT tomorrow afternoon on a downtown sidewalk as a victim of a drug crazed crackhead looking for his next hit.
5. It is widely known that "When seconds count,the POLICE are only minutes away". With no offense intended to my brothers in blue, I realize that they are as overworked as all other facets of public safety and severely understaffed. They can't be everywhere all the time.
6. If you see me running, try to keep up. It means that something really bad is about to happen behind me. Probably will go BOOM!!!
7. Memorize these lines: (1.)" Officer or Your Honor, I was in fear for my life. He/She said they were going to KILL me and I believed them." (2.) "I ONLY shot to STOP the threat". (3.) " I'm very upset now officer, I don't feel like answering any questions, please call my lawyer".


MOLON LABE RKBA

I carry my folder with me whenever I walk the dog at night. I also carry powerful flashlight to blind any potential muggers.

"I was actually shocked what situations the use of lethal is acceptable for when I was in my CHL class. So much so I retained an Self Defense attorney to verify it all."

Not having much truck with attorneys... they have attorneys who actually specialize in self defense cases??? I wonder if that is just TX?

Recommended by the local FOP.

Whatever the details we don't know anything about, I'm glad the victim managed to turn the tables. The assailants were probably taken by surprise, not expecting the victim to fight back. But it also goes to show a blade can be a devastating weapon of last resort. As much physical as psychological. The victim probably couldn't have fought back effectively just with his bare hands (unless he had a lot of training, but then again if he did, he probably wouldn't have been caught off-guard and sucker punched).

The victim was unprepared for the confrontation, and survived due to the ineptitude of his assailants. He was in condtion white, and probably should've died.

Foolish. Hard to argue the points of law when you are dead. You might have been right with the law, but what good would it do you? Not political, but practical.

If you decide to carry, make it a revolver. You won't waste precious time looking for your brass.

Shhh.

I often wonder what the reaction look like to seeing a great cloud of smoke from a Brown Bess...

is it legal to carry collapsible baton in Canada? civilians can't own hand guns in Canada. There is an increase incidents of swarming in major Canadian cities too.

I want to get a collapsible baton.

That's ironc.

Batons are illegal to carry in California (not sure about rest of USA) but we can carry handguns.

And in Canada you can't have handguns at all but you can have a baton?

We might be allowed batons, but we are not allowed to hit anybody with them unless we send them a written apology in triplicate 3 months ahead of time.

Gee, it's so reassuring to hear how well gun control is working in other countries yet again.

What about knives in Canada? Surely they haven't outlawed knife carry there yet, have they?

Knife carry is not as restricted as it is in places like California or New York, but we have people trying to make knives illegal, just the same as you do in the USA.

edit:
I blame it on all the bleeding heart conservatives.

"I blame it on all the bleeding heart conservatives."

This is not a party issue as much as it is a control issue. All governments want as much control of their victims as they can possibly get. They want you disarmed in every meaning of the term.

Sorry Susan, that was a bit of a dig at Benjamin for a comment he made in another thread.
I put the most meaningless phrase together I could imagine which would sound like a political epithet.
The previous post of mine which Ben was responding to was a bit sarcastic too. (We don't really spend all of our time appologising, but I am certainly sorry if it seems that way.)

You are quite right in your comment though. Here in Canada it does not matter which party is in power. Bleeding heart conservatives or law and order liberals Those phrases should not even make sense, and I find it a bit scary that they seem to...
Whatever, they all seem to pass the same laws when it comes to limiting our rights and approve the same budget expenditures to implement their restrictions.

Now about the original post. There is not enough information in the story to know what even happened. Some guy had a knife and somebody else got stabbed. The guy with the knife is claiming self defense, the kids are likely claiming something quite different.
It is basically a non-story.
.

Ben drops head, puts on cone cap, and heads back to naughty corner again...

sigh, sometimes funny ain't so much fun.

LOL, sorry Ben, (not really, but you can quit pouting now)

"Man, I leave for a few hours and I come back to a monkey-house!"
-Words spoken by me to my daughters this weekend and now here.

Thanks for self-disciplining yourself Ben, I can't be everywhere at once. A few more people in this thread might cowboy-up in the same manner.

-Blast

I also live in Sacramento, thankfully not in south sac.. I if i can avoid it do not go into South Sac.. It's just not safe.. The regular police did get funding though. So I will wait and see what happens.
kat

what do you guys think of personal panic alarm?

Would it be useful to alert other people of your predicament ?

I would consider a personal alarm as “another tool in the toolbox”, but would not rely solely upon it to thwart a personal attack. Too often alarms (car, home, personal) lead one to a false sense of security. Most of the car alarms I have heard go off are totally ignored, as they have become too commonplace. An alarm of any type may deter the majority of thieves/attackers, but if they are determined, you must have an alternative form of deterrence/protection.

Pete

A panic alarm in South Sac is a dinner bell to the locals that weren't paying attention the first time.

There is probably more than one side to that story. There is a chance the guy was so afraid of being Zerged that he pulled a Goetz. Fear often makes people see threats that don't actually exist. Either way I'm glad nobody died. Toss a gun into the mix and things might have ended up much uglier.

Look up the Universalist congregation and how they handled it when a guy threatened them with a shotgun. Completely unarmed a half dozen men rushed him. One died when he took one to the chest but the rest of them wrestled him to the ground and took away the gun. Breaking his arm in the process. Hard to imagine it turning out any better if someone had pulled out a pistol. A shootout with the congregation and a choir full of kids in the middle is an invitation to a bloodbath. One dead, one wounded and a lunatic hyped up on talk radio being led away in handcuffs may be as good as it gets.

The point I'm trying to make here is that firearms aren't magical. Yes, sometimes, they may deter a crime, limit harm and lower the body count. But they are easy to misuse even when the person is trained and operating in good faith. Near everything in movies or on TV about guns, self defense and crime is wrong. When guns are misused because the person misread the situation or was operating from media stereotypes or popular mythology, jingoism, or bumper sticker philosophy they make things worse.

So, you're saying that if I'm in church and I see a guy pull out a shotgun and start shooting, I shouldn't draw my .45 and shoot him? How would I have "misread the situation"?

If guns weren't effective at stopping crime, then police wouldn't carry them. Mind you, there are people out there who bought a gun, carry it every day, and have never fired it. In a bad situation those people are about as useful as those people I mentioned in the other thread who have a button on their dash labeled "4WD" that they've never used. They have no idea how it works when they need it and they think it'll magically fix the situation.

That said, I am trained in the use of a firearm. If I see a situation like the scenario you gave, I'm putting hollowpoints in the bad guy.

Here we go, more mythology from the left. Where's the sheriff?
Here is an opposite example of how a church handled it.

" The gunman opened fire at 12:30 a.m. at the Youth With a Mission center. Witnesses said the man asked to spend the night there and opened fire with a handgun when he was turned down. They described him as a young man, perhaps 20, in a dark jacket and cap.

Later, at New Life Church, a gunman wearing a trench coat and carrying a high-powered rifle opened fire in the parking lot and later walked into the church as a service was letting out.

Jeanne Assam, a church member who volunteers as a security guard, shot Murray, who was found with a rifle and two handguns, police said."

Except, of course, in the case of Goetz, they basically believe his fear WAS justified, that there was a threat, just that the shootting of one of the guys a 2nd time was wrong.

Saying firearms aren't a deterrent is like saying atomic bombs aren't a deterrent. If you have the knowledge, the discretion, and the will to use them, they are the most effective deterrent available in their given gendre. Neither are 100% effective, but both are the best thing going.

You know, I just agree with every single word here.

Yes, firearms ARE a deterrent. At the same time, guns don't solve ANYTHING by themselves. Guns don't stop crime. An armed scoiety is not necessarily a safe and polite society. There are simply to many other factors out there.

I very much support the idea that every sane, law-abiding honest citizen should be allowed to own a firearm without any major restricitons. That said, I don't believe increasing the rate of gun ownership would ultimately lead to a safe society where crime doesn't happen.

A gun is just a gun. It's a TOOL, no more, no less. In the hands of a trained and prepared invididual, a great means of offense as well as defense. But what worries me is that way too many people believe they're safe just because they own or carry a firearm. Nowadays, most of the good guys, average Joes and Janes, have very little time and will to become proficient with a firearm. They don't even have the mental and physical attributes. If you don't have what it takes to fight back (with weapons or bare hands if need be) no amount of gunpower in your hands will do any good.

At least your judiciary are not charging the "victim" with assaulting one of the muggers!!!!

An all too common occurence over here - plus a lengthy civil lawsuit ending in the "victim" paying up for giving the mugger night mares about knives.....