advice on car purchase- outback vs passat vs escap

OK, consider this a statement about my trust and faith in ya'll.

My current vehicle has reached the point it is nickle and diming me, I'm done messing around with it. So I've been looking at vehicles, and I've narrowed it down to three. I need to sleep on it, but I will also accept the wisdom and experience of ETS.

The three finalists are all going to run me about the same for car payments and insurance, and all are 6cy engines, so I'm mostly looking for technical feedback:

- '06 Escape, 56K miles
- '05 Passat wagon, 65K miles
- '04 Outback Legacy, 80K miles

As much as I like the Outbacks, I'm inclined to say pass just because it is the oldest and highest milage, and it is going to cost me just as much in terms of loan. But I do like the ride and about 10% of the cars around here are Outbacks or Foresters, so I can get parts and experienced mechanics.

The Passat felt good, but I've never had a chance to really get to know VWs. Are there any issues I'm not aware of? Minor, petty issue- the key kinda scares me.

I've never owned or spent a lot of time driving trucks or SUVs. I am comfortable doing so, but other than higher center of gravity, what else do I need to keep in mind if I go with the Escape? (I've owned nothing but sedans since I killed my Metro.) I know the Explorer had a lot of roll over issues- does the Escape?

Prices for each? If the Outback is the same, and it should be lower priced given it's higher mileage and age, I'd still buy it. Subaru makes good vehicles, extremely capable on and offroad.

But I'm a bit biased being as I own one...

You sure that Outback has a 6 cylinder?

Pretty sure the Outback is a 6 cyl- hope I'm not misremembering things this fast.

Don't remember the sticker for any of the three off the top of my head- with my down payment and trade in, all three of them are going to be in the 230-250/mo payment range on a 60 month loan. So they are about the same price. (And I'll be paying faster if everything goes according to plan, but I'd rather have the flexibility if something happens that isn't in the plan.)

And around here, Outbacks hold price really well due to their popularity.

Well if it's an Outback wagon with the H6 engine and an automatic transmission your payments are equal to the average price for one. If it's anything else, that price is high. Wait, with your trade in and a down payment? If the payments are that high after a trade in and a down payment, they're asking too much for the Outback depending on what you're trading in and the amount of the down payment.

A 6 cylinder Outback of that vintage is worth about $13,000 give or take a bit depending on mileage and condition.

If you're paying that much and you have to give them a down payment and a trade in, it sounds like you're either getting gouged or you're paying a very high interest rate.

You can buy or lease a basic Subaru Legacy brand new for less than the monthly payment you quoted above. Having said all that, Subaru is the only car company that isn't posting record losses recently, their sales are up for the last quarter at least.

I'm trading in a 99 Taurus with about 150K miles, no muffler (got torn off a few weeks ago on something, don't know what), a crack in the exhaust line and they need to mount a new muffler bracket(the original is rattling in my trunk), a minor gas leak (which is why the two garages I've talked to wanted a premium on fixing the exhaust) and a very talkative power steering pump. And that is just what they can any fool can see. Rear suspension needs work, rear break lines should be replaced before this winter, exhaust manifold might be iffy from the pull on the muffler, and there is a lot of under carriage rust from having lived in VT it's whole life.

If I make her inspectable and replace the power steering pump, it will average out to about $200 a month for the first six months of the year. For a ten year old car with rot that I paid $1000 for two years ago. It will cost less in the long term to replace than repair.

The only thing that leaks oil worse than an old Harley Davidson Pan Head, is a Subaru anything.

Oil leaks? Not a problem, never been a problem. Not even mentioned on the Outback owners forum I frequent. I'd be very curious as to what model Subaru you've owned that had oil leak issues. And any good British bike makes the leaks coming from a Hardly Ableson look like nothing in comparison.

Iron, given the description of your Taurus I guess you're lucky they're not charging you to take it away...;^)

If your down payment isn't too high and you're happy, then go for it, whichever car you choose. I'll simply add that you've made several good arguments for getting the Subaru yourself and none for the Passat or the Ford.

I worked for a Subaru parts department. I shall start with the Loyale, move on thru the legacy finish at the Outback (which is really just a legacy wagon)

Next question please class...

I see, so you had oil leak issues with all of the Subarus you owned?

To each their own, I've had none with mine, nor have I read or heard of any issues nor has my Subaru mechanic ever told me of any. The owner of the shop I use and the lead technician have both worked for Subaru corporate as well as for dealers and they haven't steered me wrong yet. Undoubtedly someone who worked in a parts dept. knows better.

The class comment is kinda of a cheap shot don't you think?

Yep, not in any of the three I've had over the past 15 years, not even the two that were well over 200K miles (and still ran like champs, except for the ubiquitous cracked inner tailpipe which rattled...but it's only a cracked inner tailpipe). The used '86 GL I'm running right now only has a 130K miles on it so it's going to be awhile before any real maintenance issues crop up.

The only reason I ever got rid of a Subaru was because I was moving.

Just keep an eye out, because there's a preponderance of Subaru owners who don't really pay attention to preventive maintenance. That goes for any car though.

I'll just say I would avoid the VW, they have have a pretty bad reliability record. That's from hearing from other people complain about them online, and also from knowing a few people that own them. Not as bad as a Range Rover, but not much better either. A lot of minor issues (especially electrical) that add up to quite a bit of money and frustration.

Between the Ford and Subaru, I'd lean torward a Subaru, but then I'm biased because I own one. They are popular for a good reason, and it definitely isn't their looks. But they have earned the reputation as being a very reliable, no frills type of car. The Ford is newer, but a difference of 25K miles on a used car really doesn't mean a whole lot. How the car was maintained and how it was driven and cared for are a lot more important than the number of miles. The Ford escapes did have a lot of problems when it was first introduced, but most cars do on their first model year.

Really depends on what you prefer, the Escape is more SUV-like while the Outback is more of a station wagon. For traveling off-road, I'd probably give the edge to the Ford because I know the Outback has some huge overhangs, but the differences are minor and neither of them are going to be great off road. Both of them are essentially lifted sedans. On road I think the Outback will be better in terms of fuel efficiency, handling, and just general road manners because of the lower center of gravity.

I bought a Forester for my wife years ago when she was pregnant since it was one the highest rated vehicles for safety. It was the perfect size and we both loved it. The performance was excellent and we had no problems with it.

We only got rid of it after we had our second child and it was too small to lug all of our kids' stuff around with us, so we got a minivan.

Ironraven, I would add a slightly different twist on the issue: Which is easier to get into; physically. I know that I need to stop crawling into and out of cars because of back and hip issues. That said: I would opt for the Escape. I can easily slide in and slide out. Perfect height for my butt.

We plan to get an imprezza hatch in the near future... awd for winter, and hatch to be able to load long items, hopefully to prevent us from using the truck (gas hog) as much. Gas mileage on these are great!

Having worked for two major suppliers to all auto makers in the U.S., both domestic and foreign owned, I'd stay away from anything made by the Big 3. Sorry to say this, and it took me years to admit it, but nearly everyone makes a better vehicle than the Big 3 and have for many, many years.

The Big 3 have never controlled their internal costs and neither the management nor the UAW give a hoot about quality, in spite of advertising to the contrary. I could give specific examples, but I'm not writing this to stir up a hornets nest, just to give a serious answer regarding product quality/reliability/service.

- '06 Escape, 56K miles
- '05 Passat wagon, 65K miles
- '04 Outback Legacy, 80K miles

Personally, I would knock out that Passat right away. FWD vs AWD, expensive repairs, and reliability is iffy. The only way I would consider one is if it's diesel and stick (which seems to be the best combo for Passats/Jettas).

That leaves the Outback and the Escape.

First, to quell your fears about rollovers, the Escape is naturally much better than an Explorer when it comes to rollovers. Reason being, is that the Explorer is a body-on-frame suv, the Escape is a uni-body. Body on frame vehicles tend to have a higher center of gravity, making rollovers somewhat easier. With that said, newer vehicles have stability control, traction control, better tires, ect; which reduces rollover likelihood greatly. I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as which I would go with between those two, it's a bit tougher. Judging by the age and mileage the Escape is probably going to be in better shape. If that's the case, than that's what I would go with.

On a side note, one thing I don't like about Subarus is that, for many of their engines the recommended or required minimum octane fuel is 91 (premium). While they will run on regular (with reduced timing and power), I prefer to use the fuel that the manufacturer recommends. That means that, in some cases, you would end up paying more for fuel than you would have if you went with a vehicle that gets worse mileage, but is designed to run on regular.

Edit:

Just out of curiosity, I started looking at the gas mileage between the two.

Outback: 18/22 mpg (Premium Recommended)
Escape: 17/21 (Regular Recommended)

Doing the math, it would actually cost a little less to drive the Escape.

Avoid the VW, period.

VW's are great cars, especially the Passats. I've had two for the past 10 years.
If you can afford the proper maintenence they are great drivers cars.
HOWEVER. I can relate dozens of horror stories about my Passats(1992 &1995) as well as my two sisters-in-law's Passat (2003) and Bug (2005).
They will eventually nickle and dime you to death with recurring problems, mostly electrical. Sometimes they'll even strand you in the middle of intersections or on the freeway...Just two of my stories.

The reason I mention affording proper maintenence is because VW is part of the VW/Audi group. There are many parts, including complete engines, that are shared between these two companies and what that boils down to is you will pay Audi prices in parts and labor for a VW.

I'll bet that '05 wagon is right on the verge of expensive things needing to be replaced or repaired.

Go buy the Consumer Reports Used Car Buying Guide, whether you like CR or not, for 2009. It's $10 well spent. Then see if you can find earlier years at the library.

This is really the only way to see a high sample rate for the cars you are considering.
In my case, the CR guide simply confirmed what I lived through with VW's.

Thanks guys.

I think I made up my mind today. Running an errand took me past walmart, and as I'm approach their turn I remembered that I wanted to get a new garbage can to put in the TRUCK. (I spend too much time in my car, and if I let it the space in front of the passenger seat becomes unlivable in a couple weeks.)

As much as I like the Outbacks, two years in Vermont is a LOT of salt on the underside, and the milage is higher. Stopped at the dealership, they weren't able to negotiate much lower on price. And everyone has said that the VWs are pricey to fix, so...

Wow. I'll be able to see over annoying big pickups in parking lots. This is kind of a novel idea for me. *laughs*

The Escape is not really that high off the ground. We just bought one in October 07. In fact, I was just out changing the oil and filter this afternoon. I put a Fumoto drain valve in (FINALLY got the right size [F-106 WITH F-106 standoff-adapter] just in case you're interested). Well, that is if we have the same size engine. Ours is the middle-sized one, is that 2.8L?? I'd have to check - I don;t have access right in front of me.

This vehicle has 18K miles on it and is averaging, accordng to the dashboard computer, 24.5 mpg. Not exactly the best, but pretty good for my wife's around town driving.

I don;t drive it enough to give you a run-dwon of its ups and downs, but my wife hasnt had any complaints. The only dealer service we've had is to have the radio/CD player replaced. Something went wrong with it, I don;t remember what, but they decided to replace the unit. Took them two trys to get a good one in there.

As far as driving, I like its responsiveness. There is a little road noise, but it's not overbearing. It's got good acceleration and cruises well on the highway.

Good luck with yours!

Interesting that you bring that up, both the new Escape and new Outback have 8.4 inches of ground clearance, which isn't half bad for a vehicle of that type (More than the comparable CR-V and Rav-4). Surprisingly, it isn't even much less than an Explorer or Expedition 4x4 at 8.7".

With that said, they all still fall short of vehicles made specifically for true off-road/prerunner use. For example, vehicles like the Wrangler, Hummers, FJ Cruiser, and Ford F150 Raptor have around 10 inches of ground clearance or more out of the factory.

All in all, good luck with your Escape IronRaven! Hope it treats you well.

Given the age and the mileage of the Ford you'll probably be just fine with it. I've owned a couple of Ford pickup trucks and an Aerostar minivan, none of them needed much more than normal maintenance to keep them going.

Good luck and have fun with it.