Put off buying things long enough?

I'm normally a pretty frugal guy and I generally think fairly hard about non-essential purchases before pulling out the wallet. However, I noticed that for a while now, I've been buying more things than usual. For some, I guess shopping is a comforting thing, but in my case, it's because I'm afraid that some of these things that I have wanted for a long time just won't be available in the future because the store or the manufacturer just might not be around much longer in this economy. Delayed gratification is one thing, but it's certainly not gratifying when you finally go to purchase it and realize that the company went belly up 4 months ago and the product is no longer available.

Anyone else been thinking this way in the past 6-12 months? I certainly know that a slightly different form of this thinking has been going on regarding firearms and ammo, but I'm thinking talking about anything besides guns. Like I've recently bought a couple training/education sets from niche companies that might not be around longer. I hope they'll survive, but you just don't know.

Yes, I have been thinking that way. I almost made a credit card purchase for some survival gear last night. It's one of my rules to not use my credit card unless absolutely necessary. Lately I have been wondering if it is true that I am paranoid. It's hard to agree that a less than 10% chance of occurence is not worth preparing for. I might make that purchase today. I suggest that if you can do it without hurting yourself or another, then you are not crazy for doing it.

By the way, can you provide links to those niche companies?

I've noticed it in myself. First with the Nalgenes- understandable, I think the Tritons are worthless and they won't be making any more of the polycarbs. Then I saw myself buying good and ok wool socks, and paracord.

I have been buying $8-10 of freeze dried or wet pack foods with every paycheck, and was picking up a brick of .22 as well, but I can't find bricks for love, money or blackmail.

America needs you.

To be a consumer-patriot. Our economy is not going to recover until people, banks and businesses stop hoarding money.

If you have savings from your frugality, you want something, need it, can afford it - buy it.

It may not get any cheaper than now.

Inflation's not your friend and many think that scourge is looming because of the mass infusion of government spending (an additional trillion dollars just today!).

Happy shopping!

That sounds like a good investment. Are saving up for the white water type short plastic kayak?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking with some of these more expensive items that I have held off buying for a long time. The price may not go down any more and the next step may be that the company just folds and I completely lose my chance to purchase it.

Actually, forget the niche companies angle of my reasoning--you could say that same thing with things from the biggest companies on the planet like GM or Ford cars and trucks! Been eyeing that Mustang or Corvette for a while now? Buy it while you can! Tell your wife that it was your last chance to get one.

Nope. We have more than we need and want less than ever.

I am looking forward to the 200,000 mile mark on my Jeep, will be any day now...I don't worry about niche stores closing, because niches always get filled. I have an excellent local supply chain for food and an excellent community for everything else.

All in all, no, I have no plans to "start buying" much stuff, mostly because I stopped so long ago that it's just our habit now.

On one hand, a while back, I noticed some tools and foods I liked were either changes in a way that largely eliminated their special attraction or they simply discontinued the item, so there is something to say about buying things you like when you find something you really like.

On the other hand, the quality and utility of the merchandise has generally improved. Back in the 70s it seemed like every flea market, discount store and corner market had Buck folder knock-offs for sale at ten dollars a pop. By my estimation all of them were made of cheap Pakistani and Indian stainless that was so soft it refused to hold and edge and bent in normal use, if it don't snap. Now you can go to any discount store and find a knife for the same ten dollars that is usable and practical. It won't be pretty or the best that has ever been made but, as long as you avoid extreme designs, like skeletonized versions, you will generally have a useful product.

Used to be a $20 backpack was a bad joke. Now, it isn't hard to find a solid and usable product for $20. Most everyone will want to spend more to get a little more durability and a few features but on average the amount of money you have to spend to get functional gear has gone down as the average quality has gone up.

This trend is driven by market forces and automation. The difference in materials and labor between good quality and poor is trivial compared to the cost having to run a second line to produce the lower quality item. Automated machining and finishing cuts the difference even more. In the end it is simply more practical for a manufacturer to produce something that works. You pretty much have to into the $2 bin to find gear that is so substandard that it has no use.

There is no reason to believe that things will change much overall. For sure, the brand names and where things are made may change. An economic slump in the US may end up with manufacturing coming back to the US. China might buy GM and produce Chevys over there and Dai-Wu light industries might open a plant over here but I don't see much chance that many products will disappear or that quality will go down.

I need to spend money on my house, it needs a roof, siding and 3 new windows and at least the roof has to happen soon.

I am also finally building shelving in the basement to store my Rubbermaid containers full of outdoor gear. I finished one today and must complete another one tomorrow. This is because the in-laws are coming on Friday for the weekend, and my DW said I have to get "all that crap" out of the spare room!

Mike

Dagny: "It may not get any cheaper than now."

There's probably considerable truth in that. With our government rewarding the mortgage/banking industry for a job well-done, the pouring of a trillion dollars of unbacked, worthless paper money on the market is going to fuel inflation. That means that it will take more money (because it's not worth as much) to buy the same stuff.

I'm quoting Wikipedia on the Roaring Twenties because it does agree with my other readings.

"A branch of the federal government called the Federal Reserve expanded credit, by setting below market interest rates and low reserve requirements that favored big banks, and the money supply actual increased by about 60% during the time following the recession. The phrase "buying on margin" entered the American vocabulary at this time as more and more Americans over-extended themselves to take advantage of the soaring stock market and expanding credit.

"In 1929, however, Federal Reserve officials realized that they could not sustain the current policy of easy credit. When the Fed started to raise interest rates, the whole house of cards collapsed. The Stock Market crashed and the bank panics began."

If anything here seems vaguely familiar, I would agree that if you really want something and have the money, you might as well buy it.

Sue

Our last big purchase was the wife's Christmas present. I figured I'd probably get laid off soon so I'd better get her what she's always wanted before we don't have the money to buy it anymore.

Since that purchase, we've cut way back on everything. Hardly any more eating out. I wanted an external amp for my digital piano today, but instead of buying one, I made do with a 70's vintage Kenwood amp (close to top of the line back in those days) and some bookshelf speakers.

I haven't bought any survival/preparedness gear for several months now, and don't really plan to any time soon. I have much more survival gear than the average person. Note: that is not the same as "the average person ON THESE FORUMS"! I'm still way behind most of you that hang out around here.

Not sure if this was tongue in cheek, but feeling obligated to spend hard earned dollars buying business' bloated inventory is not patriotic. In this case the market will sort it out. When the price is right, people will buy, period. People aren't hoarding cash, they're being smart consumers.




Good point, but I think some things (cars in particular) have a little ways to go, especially considering the 2010 models are coming out this spring. I just happen to be in the market for a car. Was gonna go the used route but now I'm giving buying new more consideration.

I'm buying more stuff in general because I feel that the goods are a better investment than what banks and the stock market are currently offering. When interest/investment returns go back up, I'll cut back on buying and get back into the market.

I would say need rather than want. We really don't know what inflation is going to do, but if you think you will need something over the next year or so, get it now.

That $Trillion the Fed just put into T-Bills is exactly as Susan described, money with no value backing it. Companies that issue shares to raise cash dilute the value of the shares that already exist. That's exactly what happened when the Fed made their announcement -- the dollar index fell from 87.50 yesterday to 83.66 today; it will be below 80 soon -- Death Spiral financing.

While that was going on, the Wall Street was enjoying a rally, thought by some analysts to be a dead cat bounce, so the market manipulators dragged down the price of gold over a few days and then yesterday about the time the Fed made their announcement, gold recovered all of its losses. Gold and (IMO undervalued) Silver in their various forms (bullion, coins, leveraged accounts (my choice), and mining stocks) seem to be a good bet when the dollar is being purposefully devalued. Consider it a currency play when paper currencies are being manipulated.

But I digress -- things could get very ugly, so make sure your needs are covered.

Just my opinion, $.02, $.20, $2.00, never mind. I am not an analyst and have lost enough in the market to be experienced enough that my opinion should not mean squat.

Speaking of cars, the price of fuel is down so everyone is back to buying bigger cars and the Toyota, Honda and other hybrids aren't so much in demand, and therefore available. Fuel will not always be cheap and you can get a Toyota Prius at a pretty good price now.

You'll thank me later. Maybe, maybe not. I put money into my old Ford Ranger, it should go another 10 years.

I used the term "want" because my definition of need is quite narrowly defined. To me, "need" is survival (Shelter-Water-Food). Everything else is "want."

For a long while I haven't needed to buy anything other than food (for us and dog), toilet paper, postage stamps, hygiene products, fuel, medicine (which I could have lived without but the sore throat would have lasted longer).

If you "want" to buy something in the next couple years, and you can afford it, you may as well buy it now. Had this conversation with a friend last night who is mulling whether to replace a 120,000-mile Ford Explorer now (with a Honda Pilot), when the manufacturers and dealers are discounting significantly, or hang onto the Explorer until it dies (hopefully not on a remote stretch of road).

Like Susan, I've been seeing inflation creeping up for awhile on a lot of things, including my dog's food. Started noticing the inflation factor in the first half of 2008, presumably due to the then-declining dollar (which helped drive up fuel prices) and the price of fuel which affects manufacturing and transportation costs.

At outdoor suppliers that I frequent such as LL Bean, REI and Cabelas, I found the 2007-08 winter sales much better deals than the 2008-09 sales. I got much better deals on cast iron Dutch Ovens, etc. a year ago than I find now. With rare exception, nothing I "want" is cheaper than a year ago. My favored companies seem to have gotten smart in '07 when the credit crunch began and tightened their inventories in '08.


LED - it was tongue-in-cheek. But I do think people who are comfortable spending money now can do so knowing that their purchases are making a bigger difference than usual for the businesses they buy from. That includes the corner grocer, the contractor hired to renovate a kitchen, the lawn service, the manicurist, the retailers, whatever.

America's businesses and workers do need people to spend.

And America's nonprofits need people to give because there is a lot of need in our country and around the world that our charities are hard-pressed to meet.

The most money I've spent lately on non-essentials was a contribution to the Washington Animal Rescue League. They've set up a food bank.

Well the patient is in a very sorry state I'm afraid, Mr Economy has suffered a major heart attack and the double cheese burgers and the chocolate chip creamy milk shakes he has been recieving since his admission doesn't appear to have done the trick. And now Mr Economy has developed a major bowel obstruction. Do you think a Trillion dollars of laxative quantative easing medicine will do the trick or shall I just call the Funeral director? I don't think Mr Economy had any life insurance to pay for a funeral director so I guess he'll just have to decompose and the vultures will just pick over his bones.

Ahh, semantics...

I define 'need' as need, same as eveyone. But, the similarities between us stop there. I define 'want' as an interest in obtaining something unecessary that was once possessed but that is not presently; and I define 'desire' as an interest in obtaining something never before possessed, regardless of whether or not it is necessary. I think someday I will further distinguish between two or more kinds of desire.

i have actually not changed mine behaviour at all. Mine education and job are aimed at the emergency services. They rarely try to save money on that. So job security is good. I'm actually looking for something better. I have mine arrows aimed at the full-time fire academy.

I've also always lived below mine means, so no debts for me. I'm just spending like usual. I'm actually in the market for a new mountainbike. Sold mine old one last weekend, so i can pay for a good one.

I am completely in agreement with your feelings on this subj.

I am wrapping up the home improvement projects that I had been putting off. I have just purchased some more pocket guides (got a line on another 1 that I have been wanting), bought some reference books to help me brush up on my woodsmanship, and bought some hardware that I'm afraid will not be available in the near and/or far future.

The pocket guides that I just bought: (all by Waterford Press)

Mushrooms: An introduction to familiar North American species
by Kavanaugh/Leung
ISBN: 13 978-1-58355-182-0 US$5.95
full color illustrations and information on edible & poisonous mushrooms

Animal Tracks: An introduction to the tracks & signs of familiar North American Species
by Kavanaugh
ISBN: 13 978-1-58355-072-4 US$5.95
full color illustrations and information on N. American Critters

I also picked up a copy of How to Stay Alive in the Woods by Bradford Angier. I haven't read it yet (it was a purchase that I had passed on earlier, regretted that but couldn't find it again until a few days ago). It appears to be a very thorough bit of work that includes an "edible plants" section. I will file a book report on this when I finish it.

There is a pocket guide on edible plants, available by Kavanaugh but I haven't found it yet and I've been too lazy(?) to order it.

I have no affiliation with Books A Million or Barnes & Noble,,,or any of these authors, publishers, etc.

One of my crews recently bought a new car, after changing his mind about a used one. He sounds like a good horsetrader. He hemmed and hawed, and hesitated. His wife, prompted beforehand, did her bit, and they walked off the lot to 'think about it'.

The dealer called him at home as he walked in the door with a REALLY good deal.

These are becoming good days for good horsetraders. But check the teeth first.

Sue

The Federal Reserve is no more a branch of the government than Federal Express is.

Wikipedia is hardly the source to cite for anything even slightly political.

The Federal Reserve is absolutely a branch of the federal government. What's that got to do with a survival forum?

The Federal Reserve
The Federal Reserve System is considered to be an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive branch of government. The System is, however,
subject to oversight by the U.S. Congress. The Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government; therefore, the description of the System as “independent within the government” is more accurate.

Now back to the thread. I just spent a bunch on new equipment, and a new knife (a ANZA Knife ofcourse)

The Federal Reserve (the Fed) enjoys a unique public/private structure that operates within the government, but is still relatively independent of government to isolate the Fed from day-to-day political pressures in fulfilling its varying roles. As stated in The Federal Reserve System Purposes & Functions:

The Federal Reserve System is considered to be an independent central bank. It is so, however, only in the sense that its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive branch of the government. The entire System is subject to oversight by the U.S. Congress….the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government.

The Federal Reserve is the central bank of the U.S. Government. Like may other branches (parts) of the federal Government it's supposed to be "relatively independent" to shield it from political pressure. But relative independence is relative. The fact is fed policy bends and sways to political pressure.

That has been very evident this week - and completely unrelate to this forum.

I'll be back to read the rest of your post right after I bury my life's savings in the back yard.

Evidently, things are different in your country than in mine. All I ever hear about from friends/family still in Fire/EMS/LE is about "The Budget".

Seems like "The Budget" has taken on a life form of its own, and is as big an enemy as arson, terrorism and the like.

Enjoy the cash cow while your department can, but don't forget to feed it. Once that cow stops giving milk, you might see things you don't like.

The last 5 years my brother-in-law was with the FD, they ran 3 man shifts. Yeah, that was in a major suburb of a large metro area. Every call became a multi-alarm situation just to get enough equipment on scene to block traffic.