Best steel for kitchen knives?

I know this is a loaded question, but what would be a better steel for a chef's knife?

Thanks!

Stainless

I should have been more clear.

What I meant, is it: VG-10, VG-2, 440A, or some other steel?

Ideally something very corrosion-resistant that requires almost no maintenance, takes a fine edge and holds it for a while. So that rules out carbon and tool steels right away. Even a moderately corrosion-resistant steel like D2 will lose its cutting ability quickly in the kitchen because the various acids in the food degrade the edge quickly.

With PROPER heat-treatment, you'd be hard pressed to find a better steel for use in the kitchen than 12C27. IME a stainless Mora makes a pretty much perfect paring knife, bar none.

VG-10 would make a superior blade as well. I have a laminated Japanese chef knife with a core made of VG-10. It's simply an awesome cutter and keeps the edge very well.

ATS-34

Many real chef's knifes are still made in carbon steel are they not? Kinda depends on whether you're a chef or a family cook, a chef is gonna clean and sharpen their knives religiously while a typical family cook would rather have the convenience of stainless steel.

JohnE

That's correct, there are still plenty of high-quality carbon steel kitchen knives out there (especially Japanese). With regular maintenance they work very well. But for most people it's simply not an convenient option. I don't mind sharpening my kitchen knives now and then but having to oil them after every use is simply too tedious even to a knife freak like me, let alone the average Joe & Jane. So I think the corrosion resistance of stainless is well worth the slight tradeoff in edge holding and quality. Of course, a professional might feel differently.

Take a look at Henkles, Sabatier, Wustoff, Old Hickory etc.
They are plain vanilla carbon.

A kitchen knife undergoes TWO metalurgical treatments; a patination from food acids and oils and continued cleaning in HOT water.

If you cook, the brief periodic steeling and even less often sharpening of a quality knife is minimal.

Um, actually Chris, Sabatier(Thiers-Issard),Henckels, Global and most of the other big brand names are almost all stainless steel.
I would give their links to their catalogs but my browser is acting retarded today, very slow.
There are some makers that still have plain carbon steel knives, but there are not many. As noted by Tom L they are mostly Japanese and they are usually traditional sushi knives.

The big reason chefs want stainless steel isn't to prevent the knife blade tarnishing, it is because they don't want their food colored by the steel.
Carbon steel colors a lot of veggies and fruit by reacting with the acids in them as you are slicing and dicing.

I can't give Redflare a great answer.

I recognize that the requirements are pretty severe and the requirements vary with what each knife is made for.
(A meat cleaver calls for different steel and temper than a fillet or boning knife does.)
The question gets into which steel is best for each of the different knives in a chefs tool roll.

I wish I could be of more use on this one, but the short answer is still stainless.

Edit:
I have heard that the European manufacturers use a lot of the 425M, 12C27, 440A types of steel which are all pretty similar alloys, but I can not readily confirm who is using what.
VG-10 and VG-1 seem to be OK too.

If you want you might look at RWL34 rapidly solidified stainless, but I hear it is pricey, and fussy about tempering.

I think a good stainless is the way to go for most people. Easier to maintain in general and don't react as much with the foods. Good is a relative term but I really like my Victorinox Forschner knives. They come from the factory very sharp and maintaining the edge is pretty easy. I don't think these would qualify as top end chefs knives- at least they didn't cost that much, but the are good practical tools for the kitchen.

- Eric

That's pretty much what I've been able to find out as well, though many European brands don't advertise the exact type of steel they're using. I know for a fact many knives in Solingen are made of 425M (an alloy with a significant percentage of Molybdenum) - they're often marked Molybdenum on the blade.

I'm not sure how popular 12C27 is in Germany but quite a few French knifemakers use it regularly. 1.4116 is also fairly common. Anyway, most European-made kitchen cutlery except for the very lowest end seems to be made of something better than just plain 420. Also, the heat-treatment tends to be pretty good for what those knives are supposed to do. People scoff at stuff like 425M but in my experience, it performs very well in some of the Solingen knives I own.

Well the moly modifies the grain making it smaller and tighter. Moly also makes a hard carbide in the alloy.
This means higher edge strength and higher edge holding. The result is they can use narrower edge angles which really improves the slicing ability of the edge.

Again, I am not a metallurgist and what makes the best knives for kitchen use is dependent on just what job the knife does.

If it was just about the sharpness and corrosion resistance then the answer would be Kyocera ceramics.
They are great for doing fruit or salad prep. They do not taint anything and they are so sharp that cut surfaces even resist normal oxidation because the food enzymes are not released.

To bad their extreme brittleness and the price rule them out for most people.
Drop a Kyocera knife on the floor and you are picking up broken pieces, hit anything hard like a bone and the edge has a missing piece that you have to find before serving it.
You can buy 10 Victorinox paring knives for the cost of one Kyocera paring knife, and I really don't want or need a straight razor's edge to peel onions or potatoes.
Some companies have been playing with Titanium knives, but again the edge is not enough better to justify the price.

I mentioned the powder crucible steels before, but what I would really love to see is something in glassy metal.
Glassy metals are very much the technology of the future. (DARPA)
The price at the moment is still pretty high, more than $10 a pound, but it might come down.

More about glassy metals from Liquidmetal Technologies
http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/
http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.news.04x104.asp

Kitchen Knives are kinda strange steel wise. Generally, pro chefs don't want a very hard edge, in fact, they like it kinda soft, exactly for the reason of chipping.

I don't know if it still holds true, but I know when Grandpa was a chef, the average chef kept 2 sets of knives - one was out being sharpened, while the other was being used, and you swapped weeks. During the week, you just steeled your knife. They were more worried about being able to put a good edge on FAST than in HOLDING the edge (usually the better a steel holds the edge, the harder it is to sharpen)

Right now, I own 2+ sets of chef knifes. What's left of Grandpa's knives (OLD Sabietier - rehandled more than once, ground down so much they are triangular instead of curved), a couple of knifes Dad bought when Grandpa's knifes started getting too worn, and the 3-4 knives I bought when I got married, and needed my own knives (plus the 1 I got as a gift, which I almost never use - I hate 8" chef's knives - prefer a 10")

BTW am I the only person who uses 4" pairing knives as "table knives"

Nope, 4" kitchen knives are ideal for the table. I even have a 4" tactical steak knife -- ATS-34 steel, kydex sheath -- originally sold as a Bird & Trout

I have a relative who works as a chef and a friend who runs a butcher's shop. Both would agree with that wholeheartedly. Those folks use knives all the time, mostly for precision cutting stuff like vegetables and meat - very soft materials by nature. So what they need is a super fine edge that can be fixed quickly when necessary (ideally steeled). Hardness and edge retention are way secondary and indeed, a very hard edge might well be counterproductive.

I've also noticed the pros tend to keep a couple of designated knives specifically for heavier cutting (bones etc.). A thicker edge is better for that kind of work and lasts longer. But of course it's not meant for any other work in the kitchen.

My s/o is a professional cook.

The best knife is one that you can keep sharp and know how to use.

Those $25 Victorinox Forschner knives are just fine.

I foolishly spent a fortune on kitchen knives (hand forged Japanese steel, custom made s30v blades, an so forth) before I learned this.

Go to a quality store where they will actually let you try out the knives cutting some carrots or something and see what feels best in your hand. I'm fond of the Wusthof grand prix series.