is there a better folder than rsk1 for the money?

just curious what this not at all biased group thinks

for the money is there a better folder for overall hunting/survival use?

Better? Loaded question -- The standard Benchmade 550HG Griptilian has some good attributes and it's less expensive. But, it's hollow ground rather than flat and it's 154CM instead of S30V. Personally I think the RSK Mk1 is priced about right, but there are other knives.

Well I am new here so y'all don't really know me yet, but I generally am pretty loaded as are my questions

I'm a huuuuuge fan of Doug Ritter's knives. I own every model he's offered - Mk1, Mini Mk1, Mk1 in M2, Mk3 (fixed), and the Mk4 (Gentleman's knife).

I heartidly recommend Doug's knives to all. They are well worth every penny!!!

Still, once you throw in the word "for the money", then I'm forced to look at much lower priced knives that still provide very good value.

I bought each of my kids a Kabar Dozier Folding Spear 406

While this Kabar Dozier folder is not nearly as refined as the Rittergrip Mk1, it is a VERY nice knife for $20. It takes a nice edge (edge doesn't last as long as the Mk1), it has a grippy handle (kind of squarish though - not as comfortable as the Mk1), it has a lockback (generally considered less secure than the axis lock on the Mk1), its thumb stud is only on one side of the blade (could be a problem if you writting arm/hand are injured), and it has a lanyard hole (very important for a survival knife).

Would I trade in the Mk1 for the $20 Kabar Doziers? NEVER!!

Ken

My timex keeps time accurately enough, seems to be waterproof, and occasionally has the right date, if I pay attention to that "30 days has September..." thing. If you like elegantly designed and flawlessly executed tools, and have the money to spare, a Rolex might be more pleasing.
For the price, you can get a rucksack full of mercators, or opinels, or a few SAK's. The RSK will not make you taller, or smarter, or better looking.

In My opinion, no. If you can find one let us know though.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

The folks here are very knowledgeable, very nice people, as you'll soon find out.

Blitz

To get anything significantly better you really are talking around the $200 mark.

something in ZDP-189 or 3G Powdered Laminate from Fallkniven.

i.e.

Fallkniven PXL Folder @ $210 (this is a really, really nice knife for the price )

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=FALPXL

review http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wdklLprSB6s

or

Spyderco C90CFPE Stretch - ZDP-189 @ $200 (some folks can't stand the style)

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=SPYC90CFPE

Define 'better.'

Yes, me thinks a "better" definition of "better" is in order.

For the money, I don't think you'll find a better overall quality of knife. But quality might not be the issue. Maybe blade length, or blade shape, or handle thickness might be better found for 1/5 of the price.

......but those things are subjective to the individual user which, in this case, is you.

Quality-wise, S30V will absolutely NOT out-perform 154CM to the tune of $60 or $70, nor will the difference of hollow-ground vs. flat-ground, now will both combined. Not in my opinion, anyway. Yet I'm one who is always on the edge of ordering a RSK1 while I rarely dally more than a second looking at a BM 550 or 551 (flat ground), even though they cost nearly 50% less than a Ritter knife. There is something about the Ritter knives that keeps me on the edge.

In the end, it's subjective... to you.

Welcome to the forum, Username! ((( )))

Hmmm... I will not get into the debate which knife is better but I will tell you that there are other options out there if maybe Benchmade is not your cup of tea. Choosing knife is a personal thing. I used to follow advices from majority on what's right and what's junk but realized that chosing what fits my lifestyle the best requires more than just someones opinion. It requires handling a blade, putting it in your pocket that's why now I mostly buy knives I've handled.

With the MSRP of about $110-$125 RSK1 is a good valued folder. It uses good steel and proven lock.

My other options that I would put on the line are:

Spyderco Paramilitary about the same price. I prefer handle shape and thumb hole instead of a stud which I find easier to open with cold hands.

Buck Strider Tarani folder also about the same price. Same type of handle as paramilitary. Great blade with solid lockup. Uses thumb stud instead of the thumb hole. But I've put that knife thru hell and back and it works as well as day one.

And now if you want to go for something cheaper I would try either CRKT M16 series or Spyderco Delica (smaller blade). If your primary work environment is water and you want a knife that wont rust and works everytime try SPydercos FRN.

Well, I am looking for a do it all knife. Well, not cutting my steak or anything, but a knife that will be used to cut animal skin as well as be there for whatever survival task comes up. An all purpose knife in other words.

It is difficult for me to define better because I am not one who owns many knives.

I just want a quality blade I can use for hunting and survival purposes and when I die my kids or grandkids can still use it.

Keeping a sharp edge under hard use is certainly a plus as I currently have multi tool knives that I sharpen constantly. It is annoying to me how frequently they require sharpening just to open the tape on a package.

Thanks for the recommendation for a lower priced knife. I ordered one RSK1 and one Kabar Dosier Folder. I guess I will have some means for comparison.

Still, I am interested in further discussion on the merits/demerits of any folding knife. I think it is good to have a quality knife that will last a lifetime as well as a few cheaper knives that will 'get er done' even if they lack the quality of other units.

Had I not received the Benchmade 520 as a gift, I would be carrying the RSK MK1 in my pocket now. In the future I will be as the 520 is heavy in comparison due to the metal handles.

Well crap. I guess I won't be getting one of those then. So, what knife will make me taller, smarter and better looking

It will do all those things. He was just kidding....

The low cost Ka bar dozier lockback mentioned above is very high quality for the price. I think it's at least as good as lockback spydercos which cost more than twice as much. And the thumb stud can be reversed if you're left-handed (like me).

Also, it comes in a variety of blade styles, including a drop point which has a hole for opening, rather than a thumb stud.

I'm sure there are better "survival" folders out there, but as you can tell, I like mine a lot.

The Ka-Bar Mule is another solid performer. That said, I just bought a second RSK Mk1 to put away. One of these years availability will dry up.

It's funny, I've handed my Kershaw folder to people numerous times to cut their steak. I've also used my RAT 7 and my SOG Seal Pup as kitchen knives, well kitchen might be overstating it, remote filming location with no craft services or catering meant the medic got to fix breakfast and lunch for the crew some days. All three work quite well for the more mundane things like chopping up some veggies or slicing a piece of meat.

The Ritter folder is on my equipment wish list.

JohnE

I don't own an RSK yet, it sure looks like a very good knife. If only it had a Wave hook I'd seriously consider buying one. I've heard there were some issues with the steel, though. Unstable carbides leading to a prematurely blunted edge, not uncommon with S30V and apparently the RSK might be prone to the same problem.
http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/rsk.html

I really wonder if any other RSK owner has ever observed anything similar or is it just something blown out of proportion?

I own the RSK1 and its a great knife.

I get your drift 'Username'. I think your context is "For the same amount of money is there a better knife than the RSK1?"

It's blown out of proportion. I have a number of Benchmade S30V knives (RSK Mk1, RSK mini and three Benchmade 940's) with no issues. If you get a knife with edge issues send it back to Benchmade. They all come with Lifesharp service.

BTW, if it had a Wave hook I'd pass it by without a second thought.

I've had no problems with my four S30V Rittergrips.

Smash,

Fascinating, you come onto a web forum hosted by someone at zero cost to it's users, filled with information that anyone is free to use, pass around, claim as their own, etc. and you toss in "your opinion" that people who post here exaggerate their comments in an effort to gain praise from the forum owner.

You really, really, really, need to read more if you think that people here are hoping to get some sort of acknowledgment from Doug Ritter for praising a knife that he helped design.

All "smileys" aside, you owe the folks on this forum an apology, and since you have the misguided notion that being nice to him will gain you something, you oughta throw in an apology to Doug Ritter as well.

I find your comments offensive, don't care if it's your opinion or not.

JohnE

Ditto.

It does not matter who owns the forum or who made (or designed) the knife. All that matters is if the guy that bought the knife is happy.
I've tried more knives than I can count and will say that I've come across a lot that I wasn't happy with. I can't say that about Doug's Benchmade knives. For me, they are worth every cent and are a great value. I will admit that I prefer the fixed blade over the folder but I'm just a "fixed blade kind of guy". In fact when my uncle asked what knife he should get, I gave him one of Doug's. With all of the knives I get each year, that is saying something.
Are Doug's knives the best? To some yes, to others no. It depends on what you want in a knife and I am not going to tell anyone that "this is the best!" At the same time, I also have knives from other companies that I am thrilled with and a couple may even have my name on them as the designer. But owning one knife does not make another knife better or worst.
I will say that such threads are really a waste of time because you will never get everyone to give you one answer. They also seem to be a perfect magnet to draw in every guy on the web that wants to voice his opinion as "an expert". The only expert on what knife YOU will be happy with is YOU!

The problem with the "which is the best" kind of threads is that most of us only know the limited types/models that we ourselves have used, though there are some lucky exceptions out there, and many have us have certainly read the opinions of others.

Example 1:

Question: What is the best 2-person tent?

Answer: I use the <Brand A> <Model> and find it to be a great tent. If you waste your money on <Brand B> tents they will certainly fail in high winds and ruin your trip.


Example 2:

Question: What is the best LED headlamp?

Answer: I like the <Brand A> <Model A> and have used it for a year now. It is very bright and easy to use. People say that <Brand B> <Model B> is not very good.

The answers are genuine honest well-intentioned opinions of what matches the user's needs.

Oh, another interesting phenominon is that I find different forums have specific "favored" products. One knife formum almost always recommend brand X, while another almost always recommends brand Y. I see the same thing with tents. I happy to say that this forum seems to be less "brand biased".

Back to the Ritter knives ... I have to say that I spent a long time looking for a fixed blade that matched what I wanted. I just didn't see anything that made me buy - beyond a low cost Mora. The Buck Vanguad was kind of close, as was the Benchmade Rant. Finally Doug brought out his fixed blade. I'll admit I was suprized to see it having a handle as similar to the Mk1, but it worked. That is one sweet knife.

Would I be wrong to say that there is a much broader range of folders available to choose from than fixed blade knives? At least it seems that way to me.

Ken K.

I'm not a knife expert. The impression I got when I researched it is that you can't get better for the same money, but you can get roughly equivalent for cheaper.

I own an MK1, a Mk1 mini, and the fixed blade Mk3. They are all good knives. As a non-expert I was willing to pay a premium to be sure what I got was good.

Brangdon,

Not to hijack, but did you by chance need to tighten the Mk1's pivot to meet what I understand is the UK's law about knives that can be opened by flipping??

Ken K.

It seems that currently, HMRC are allegedly confiscating certain knives that can open in a certain manner from individual purchasers, but not from companies i.e. Hennies.
The future is indeed uncertain as can be seen here
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70460
and it would be a shame if we end up with more restrictions applied when the knife crime is predominantly committed with normal kitchen utensils, work tools and a host of other pointy objects. Objects used tend to be low value items that the perpetrator dont really want to keep, whereas this situation tends to affect mid to high value items that would tend to be kept in drawers, used in the woods for feathersticks, skinning, whittling (insert many other skilled knifey/sharpey skills here) or used some other manner that would not entail plunging it into someone else at dark o clock for spilling pint/ dissin' mi/ lookin at mi funny/ insert other half as5ed reason here.
Its sad really that a sensible law was interpreted in a way not intended and a precedent was set, but whats worse is that laws already passed are not enforced when a knife crime/ injury/ murder is committed. Stab someone and you should get the 5 years.
It would stop, overnight probably.

Terrill,
Fancy meeting you here. Just because you write for Tactical Knives, SWAT magazine and others, you must think you know knives???
You are right though, what is the right folder for me may not be the right folder for another.
I'm doing to have to try one of the RSK's one of these days, but for now I'm happy with my current folder (far more costly than a RSK). Perhaps in April I'll get to borrow yours for a day or two.
Stu

The manufacturer tightened it before shipping. I had to loosen it for use.

I don't keep it very loose, but it's a bit academic as it's not legal every day carry in the UK anyway. It mostly lives at home.

I don't post often but I can't leave this one alone. To imply that Doug is in this for monetary gain is ignorant and insulting. I had an opportunity to work with Doug and see first hand the passion He has for the Safety of others. What little money that does come in from his products goes right back in to fund the foundation. Not all companies are willing to give away their products for testing, some are down right hostel about it. Where do you think the funds come from for Doug to do this type of testing and research. Some come in from donations and a lot comes directly from Doug's pockets. The money that he gets from his products is split between supporting Doug, alowing him to do what he does and The ETS Foundation. It is also implied that any one standing up for Doug is sucking up. Doug owes me nothing!

username
You are doing the right thing. Try several knives and find the right one that fits you. I have a safe full of knives some partially serrated, some fully serrated and the winner for me was a RSK MK1 non serrated blade.

Yes.

111mm one handed Victorinox. Has a fantastic saw and the blade will do any slicing/skinning/feather sticking chore you ask of it.

The RSK 1 is a good knife but it needs to be paired with a decent multitool for maximum effectivness.

Just curious ... what do you use your multitool for?

I've been bringing my LM Charge Ti with me while camping for maybe two years now and I haven't really found myself using it much.

My most commonly used tools are my RSK Mk1 folder (mostly because its with me all the time - I pefer using the Mk3)), my fixed Mk3 (mostly cooking and fire-prep), a saw (for cutting medium-sized wood), and a small axe (for splitting the medium-sized wood, stripping branches, and other fire-prep).

I keep bringing the LM just in case I need it. I figure as soon as I don't bring it along, then I'll need it.

Merry Christmas Everyone! And if Christmas isn't your thing, then happy holidays and I hope your new year brings peace, prosperity, and good health for you and your loved ones.

Ken K.

"...what do you use your multitool for?..."

I EDC my Wave, and use something on it daily. I am constantly tightening a screw, twisting something with the pliers, using the pliers to dig something small out of a spot I can't get my fingers into, cutting wire, you name it. I couldn't live without it...

In an urban environment there are lots of uses for a multitool. I take my LM in the wild mostly for the pliers. It has more grip than my fingers do, esp on hot surfaces or something else I don't want to touch directly. I could probably just take a pair of pliers instead for all that it really matters.
I EDC a skeletool because I never cared much for the tiny ass saws on multitools. I do wish it had a file though.

Smash,

Rather then responding to individuals via PM, why don't you respond to them here on in the open?

You post appears to be an subtle attack on both Doug and the members who post here, especially those of us who own and like his knives... if that wasn't your intention then why don't you clear it up?

Username_5,
like many have said before, it is going to depend on your application and personal preference. I personally like the RSK Mk1 for a "survival knife". I have done a number of survival related tasks with it and it has always accomplished the tasks as well or better then other similar sized knives. So to answer your question; No, for me there is no better knife that I have found for survival use for the money.

I do usually pair my RSK with a Leatherman Wave or Charge, the combination give me a wide range of tools in two small packages that weight next to nothing.

The problem with the Victorinox locking folders, like the one hand trekker and the forester, isn't the saw or the excellent locking screwdriver.

The problem is that their main tools, the knives, are pretty mediocre. They aren't very sharp and don't sharpen up well. They'll go right thru butter on a hot day, but that's about it.

Smash? Uhmmmm, "observation" is misspelled in the second line of the fourth paragraph from the bottom. I won't say anything about "wasn't" on the same line........

Smile Smash! It's Crhistmas, er uh Christmas Eve!!!! ((( )))

Merry Christmas!

Smash,

While I was trying to be nice and point out that your post was taken as an attack by more then one member of this forum. I know that you have been responding via PM because some of those individuals have told me so. I am not a moderator, I am just a member of the forum who was hoping that my post would prompt a response from you that better explained your point. Apparently, I was wrong in thinking that your response would be any different then your others.

No offense perceived on my part. Everyone's opinions welcomed!

Happy holidays everyone!!

Oh, and a special thanks to those of you who who serve and protect. You have my utmost respect.

Ken K.

Hmm. I agree there are many knives out there with better blades made of better steels. But if anyone means to imply that Victorinox blades are somehow inadequate for general utility work I'd like to hear some better clarification.

I have folders that hold an edge quite a bit longer but my Victorinox knives have been some of the sharpest blades I've ever owned. The blade profile is very acute, the steel can be sharpened easily to a fine edge. Restoring the edge takes very little effort and can be done on any kind of stone, which is a major advantage compared to some harder steel. I have in fact used a Victorinox as a straight razor on a few occasions. A friend of mine has used his as a carving knife for many, many years (and he is pretty good at woodworking). So please, let's keep it in a proper perspective.

For all the "tactical" blades made of S30/60/90 or whatever the latest fad steel out there, please show me what these super folders can do that the Victorinox can't. Then consider the price and cost/effect ratio. In my experience, Victorinox folders are at least adequate for most utility tasks that can be reasonably expected from a pocket knife. You would be hard pressed to find a brand that has been around so long and used by so many people.

Tom,
There is nothing wrong with either maker of the Swiss Army Knives products for utility work. I own a number of both Victorinox and Wegner's products and they are good tools.

The Trekker is a good knife, I have one in my SAR kit I use at the FD. However, I would still rather have a knife with a larger profile blade in a better steel that will hold an edge longer then the SAK's. S30V isn't a fad steel, it has been around for quite for good reason. S30V is extraordinarily corrosion resistant, is easy to sharpen and holds and edge well. Are there other steels with similar performance, sure. SAK's blades even share some of these properties, but for me the killer is how quickly a SAK's blade looses it's edge and how thin and somewhat flimsy the blades are.

Like I said, they are exceptional knives for utility work, the small blade has been my whittling blade of choice since in cub scouts, and the other tools they have make them very useful. I still would prefer a better blade for the tougher survival knife tasks like battoning.

I put a utility edge on my SAK's which works for the light cutting I expect of it. While they will dull quicker than one of the premier steels, I think of the main blade on any multi-tool -- SAK's included -- as a back-up. I'll have a primary folding knife in S30V, 154CM, D-2 or even a fixed blade to use for heavier tasks. Heck, even my Leatherman Charge TTi has an S30V blade which I consider a back-up. The ergos are wrong for it to be considered a primary sharp.

BTW, for those interested, Victorinox uses the same steel for all their tools/blades, only the heat treatment changes.
SAK Inox has: 0.52 carbon, 0.45 Manganese, 0.6 Silicon, 15 Chromium, 0.5 Molybdenum -- Sorta kinda similar to 425. IIRC, $.02

What happened to Smash's posts? I know it's not something to concentrate on, but it's awful strange that someone's posts would disappear....

Smash was moderated.

It is my understanding that Smash was given a choice between being civil or being "moderated" and he chose to post a even more insulting and derogatory post in this thread which made the choice for the moderators easy.

Again, I am not a moderator so this is just how it was explained to me.

S30V (and any other "high grade" cutlery steel is just fine. Pretty much any steel these days is good at what it's supposed to do. The problem is, the cutlery industry now relies heavily on fads to push their products. As a result, a lot of people now sadly believe any knife NOT made of whatever happens to be the steel of the day is just useless and mediocre. Hence my "fad steel" comment.

Smash posted comments that were in clear violation of the forum rules.
And again, this website is not paid for by taxation or subscription, so 'free speech' is not an issue.
Smash can create a website, earn an online reputation and say anything he wants.
I contacted smash. By PM I told him very directly he was violating the rules and had two options.
Smash chose to reply with insult and vulgarity.
Once my refined And delicate nature recovered from his withering, and incredibly original coments, I banned him.
I deleted all ofhis posts, letting a tagger's graffiti remain on the website equally offensive to my gentile nature.

Seems as though things must must have gotten exciting while i was emergency shopping. Saw this coming

Chris, I am aghast that a forum member would stoop to bullying such a considerate, gentle, and kindly soul by using harsh vulgarity and other improper verbage.

Yet I'm surprised at your chosen punishment. It must still be bothering you deeply to have found it necessary to respond with such ferocity - in such complete contrast with your gentle nature. Bruised though you may be, rest in the comfort and knowledge that the damage is not permanent - you will survive - you will heal - this shall pass. Most certainly this is not your first "victim".

Our prayers are with you......

"Hmm. I agree there are many knives out there with better blades made of better steels. But if anyone means to imply that Victorinox blades are somehow inadequate for general utility work I'd like to hear some better clarification.

I have folders that hold an edge quite a bit longer but my Victorinox knives have been some of the sharpest blades I've ever owned."


Tom

I have a # of SAK's including the trekker and the forester, as well as some of the slip joint models. I agree that their blades are fine for general utility work, I just wouldn't hold them up as a top notch folder because the blades just are not as high quality as many of the other over-the-counter folders that can be purchsaed at moderate cost.

I've ungraded from a Vic. Alox farmer as my kit knife of choice for a folder, to the Vic One handed Trekker or Forester as the folder of choice for a kit. Convexing the blades turns them into serious cutters and the saw, IMHO, beats the hack out of a wire saw, and will overcome most of the faults of the blade steel. The can and bottle opener screwdriver combinations are high quality and will get the job done. I like the corkscrew on the Forester as it make a fine tool for tough over tight knots. Adding a mini-screw diver to the corkscrew gives a very usable screwdriver for the tiny screws in glasses, fishing reels, firearms, etc.
The toothpick and tweezers get used more often and I care to think about.

Had made his own choices and knew the consequences. Buh-bye.

I did not intend any such implication.

I don't think he was responding to you, just used the quick reply which automatically replies to the last post.

Sorry Brangdon, It was for someone else.

See, this is where I would agree and disagree with you. Yes, the steels available today are better in many ways than 'granpas' even though those knifes still get passed down from generation to generation for a reason.

There are, however, several steels that are worth less than nothing and others that are not what they used to be as manufacturers change processes or ownership and quality.

Just last night I broke a Chinese knock off of a swiss army knife. The logo on the knife was very similar to the swiss version in an obvious intent to deceive. I simply tried to cut soft wood downward and the blade broke upward and no longer locked into any position. This was a gift and I hope the purchaser paid no more than $5 for it. One of the tools it came with was a phillips screwdriver. I tried using it, but it bent and dulled quickly. Cheap ass metal(steel).

A top end steel is 154CM, but the reality is it's manufacturing has been outsourced to China in many cases and the end result is the steel is no longer top grade due to inferior hardening processes. Unless it is American made it is safer to consider it low to mid range steel. There is more to steel than it's name, there is also the manufacturing/hardening process and the name can't tell you how it was hardened.

There remain many knife suppliers charging a premium for their 154CM blades even though they are at best, 420C (not even 440 series) blades. A true rip off.

I could go on, but in my opinion when one wants a blade for a purpose there are quality choices at all price points above cheap chinese knockoffs that offer a good value, but then there are the rip offs.

Buy a knife for the steel above all else. It is the steel that allows the knife to do what you want it to.

Could you put some brand names to those claims regarding 154CM being outsourced to China? AFAIK, most knifemakers get the steel in an annealed state and do the heat treatment in house or send it out to someone like Paul Bos who have earned their reputation by doing HT.

Also, what is 420C? I've heard of 420 and I've heard of 420HC, but not 420C. 440A/B/C are well known, but a step or three up.

Yes, that was the first time I've heard of 154CM being outsourced. I'd like a few pointers to start at for research.

154CM is an American made steel from Crucible. No one but Crucible can make it.

Did username_5 possibly mean that 154CM "blades" are being made in China from exported 154CM steel?

Yes, I believe that is what I meant. I was reading somewhere last night (don't recall where, sorry) about the various steels and what they have been/are used for, what they were developed for etc. The article mentioned that 154CM is no longer a steel one can assume is high end due to the way it is being hardened by some Chinese sources.

Doesn't mean the steel is bad, just that one has to be careful where/how the knife was made.

Any steel made to the same exact specifications will behave the same regardless of where it has been produced. As long as the composition is the same the mechanical properties will be the same as well.

Far more important is the question of heat treatment. That's as much an art as it is a science. It's the heat treatment that either brings out the best in the steel if done correctly... Or you end up with a blade that performs worse than it could because something wasn't done right.

Heat treating most stainless steels is inherently problematic because it takes a lot of expensive equipment and a good deal of experience (more than the Chinese shops producing SAK knockoffs can afford). That's the reason why a select few manufacturers can make much better blades out of the same steel than the competition.