Escape & Evasion kits

Posted by: Oni

Escape & Evasion kits - 12/06/08 11:19 PM

If you have an E&E kit what do you have in there and what situations do you forsee yourself possibly needing it for. What is your setup, how do you carry it and why did you choose it?

So I bought another Maxpedition pouch and decided to turn it into a "small of the back" pouch with it's own waist strap. The idea is this is put over the tank top "wife beater" type undershirt and then something is worn over that which conceals the pouch at your back. This is great for winter seasons but not so great for warmer ones as it is harder to conceal. The reason I put it on it's own waist strap is two fold, 1. it doesn't weigh down my pants when I want to put them on/take them off and 2. it takes a lot less time putting it on/taking it off. So as it is more convenient it is more likely to go with me as I can be lazy sometimes.

Now call me paranoid or just obsessed if you want but I have pouches and pockets and kits for everything. I am always looking for new and interesting ways to carry stuff depending on what I might be doing. This kit is small enough and light enough to be pretty hassle free and really doesn't get in the way of me doing anything. The only time it is inconvenient is when I might want to put on a backpack and strap in. The pouch can be repositioned to the side of the waist however which keeps everything comfortable.

Now this kit isn't exactly an E&E pouch per se but I was thinking the setup would be pretty well suited for that application. What I've got in there covers most of the basics and I consider it part of my EDC. Below is a link to where I bought the pouch however when it came in I found it had two inner compartments and two large velcro straps. This cut down on the useable internal space so I turned the pouch inside out and very carefully cut the compartments away. Afterward I found the space much improved, while this makes the bags contents prone to shifting I am not bothered by this. Despite the amount of gear I've packed inside the pouch is capable of expanding further if I decided to add a few more items and so far it only weighs a few pounds. When wearing it around during the day I forget it is even there.

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=7&idproduct=394

Ok on to the contents, here is what I've packed into this 8" x 4" x 1.5" pouch:

$200
spare car/house keys
25' paracord
multi tool
large lighter, unused
mini prybar, custom made
automatic center punch
medical shears
2, 3"x3" bandages
neosporin
benadryl
motrin
water purification tablets
6 utility razor blades
knife sharpener
small compass
signal mirror
mini headlamp and extra batts
3 needles of different size and 150' thread
standard size emergency blanket
high decibel whistle
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/06/08 11:39 PM

First one needs to consider expected terrain and weather.
Then why and what are you E&E'ing from or for.
How many are you responsible for and what training does everyone have.
What "comfort level" are they going to be needing.
I think one could do well by adding the AMK/DR PSP and an AMK Heatsheets or Bivy. as a start. I would also consider adding this military survival kit if space and finances allow. I have used all of these items and REALLY USED the military kit once in 1989. A water bottle might be nice also. Helps to have something other than the bag in the military kit to purify/drink from.

Just a start. I am helping two families establish themselves in the BOB world. They are light years apart in thinking, finances and "comfort level" so their bags differ accordingly.
Good Luck
Posted by: comms

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 12:54 AM

I would add fire tender, duct tape, quart size and gallon size ziplock bags. A notepad and permanent marker.

Even with that, your kit is not really big enough to need a maxipedition for every day carry. You could easily put the vast majority of your kit in a very small pouch and carry the rest in a smaller package.
Posted by: Nishnabotna

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 01:53 AM

Huh, I always figured that I'd want to be found. What are you guys doing out there???
Posted by: yelp

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 01:57 AM

Depends. One geologist I've worked with was arrested by the Nicaraguan secret police for being a spy (he's not). Of course, had he been carrying an E&E kit he might have been executed.

Sometimes you just can't win.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 02:03 AM

Odd that you mention that. Sometimes I wonder if we aren't putting on a post-graduate course on how to evade law enforcement to folks who's internet (and room & board for that matter) are being paid for with tax dollars.

When new folks start wondering how to evade and not be found, a small red flag goes up in my mind.

Not meant to this post itself, just in general.
Posted by: comms

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 02:16 AM

Well I think there is definitely something about 'being too smart by half." I also thought that the intent of this thread was not so much E&E but EDC. Maybe I didn't read closely enough.

I was going to mention that a center punch is not necessarily an appropriate EDC item but the concept was E&E. Again I wouldn't carry one for that either, similar to carrying a lock pick set. Regardless how 90% of our kit looks to a LEO, a lock pick kit puts off a whole lot of alarms to them.

When it comes down to it, if its a bad situation and I'm trying to get out of something or into something, I am not worried if I break a door jamb with my foot or throw something through a window.
Posted by: Oni

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 02:29 AM

Thanks Izzy some good things to consider, motrin works alright for me and I have no heart conditions but I'll try aleve next time I need something and see how it works for me. The poncho is a good idea, I'll see if I can fit one in there.

Desperado this kit isn't exactly an E&E for me but could be used as one. I only have to plan for myself so that helps to simplify things. I don't think I'll be buying one of those military kits you listed, I have most of those items already so it would be too redundant.

Comms the tinder is a good idea and I wrapped several feet of duck tape around the lighter already. This pouch is not like a normal versipack, it is only 8" x 4" x 1.5" and disappears underneath clothes when worn at the small of the back.

Yelp, prime example of why one should never travel to Nicaragua unless they have no other choice.

Comms the center punch is for getting ones self out if trapped in a car. Of course if the situation is dire you won't have too much time to dig in the kit and get it out. However I feel it is a useful tool like the multi and mini prybar. I make knives and tools for a living so I carry more in the way of tools than most people.

I should state again that this is not an E&E kit but I believe the way I have it set up this would work well as one. This is for me what one might call a last ditch kit. If I am seperated from/forget my EDC bag then I at least have this and what I carry in my pockets.
Posted by: AROTC

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 03:14 AM

Well, being just south of the DMZ, I can't say this hasn't occurred to me. However, after doing a little bit of research I'm coming to the conclusion that there's no such thing as an escape kit. At least not one you can take with you. An escape kit has to be compiled after you're already captured. Everything else will have been taken from you during the initial and subsequent searches. The best thing you can do is memorize maps of the area you'll be traveling in. Navigating with out maps is nearly impossible and so you need to either be very familiar with the area or be able to sketch out a map for your self. For evasion, a normal survival kit is perfectly suitable, with the addition of camouflage aids.

However, I do not carry either an escape or evasion kit of any sort. I do have my EDC, and I carry an assault pack with cold weather clothing, signal gear, navigational aids and a brew kit when I'm in the field. This is in case of vehicle break down or separation from my unit during peace time. As part of my EDC I also carry a notebook/journal that I habitually sketch maps in. More then once this has been the map I've relied on to keep from getting lost, both in cities and in the field.

I started it as a way to locate entries in my field notebook for geology classes and it carried over into the rest of my life. Even a very rough map is useful as long as it has a north seeking arrow and includes major terrain features. Mine have ranged from precisely scaled down copies of maps with simplified topography to rough not-to-scale drawings showing road intersections. Both have come in handy.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 03:27 AM

Thread Hijacking in progress. . . . . . sorry.

AROTC,
What service are you in? Beyond that what is your branch?

I have a few suggestions for E&E if you want them.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 03:37 AM

Interesting - I've always found that the Inuprofen works great (for me) and Naprox is useless - does nothing for me
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 05:35 AM

Yep, no offense, Iz, but Ibuprofen is the only effective analgesic for me as well- naproxen products really upset my stomach, Advil doesn't. And it relieves the pain, whether headache or other.
Posted by: AROTC

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 07:57 AM

Army Chemical Corp. I'd love to hear your E&E suggestions, everyone goes to the sandbox sometime and I'd definitely consider one there.
Posted by: Paragon

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Oni
The center punch is for getting ones self out if trapped in a car. Of course if the situation is dire you won't have too much time to dig in the kit and get it out. However I feel it is a useful tool like the multi and mini prybar. I make knives and tools for a living so I carry more in the way of tools than most people.

The link to the EDC in my signature shows a ResQME mini rescue tool that I have attached to my keychain:



Shown here removed from the quick-disconnect, a razor-edged seat belt cutter is exposed, while the opposite end features a spring-loaded center punch that is used to shatter the side window:



Although carrying a machinist’s center punch is better than nothing, digging through a Maxpedition pouch while trapped upside down in a river or while your car burns to the ground after a serious collision is not what I would consider an ideal situation.

Jim
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 03:36 PM

Me too. With my back (and now shoulder), I live on 800mg...
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 03:42 PM

I have a spring loaded centerpunch attached to the drivers sunvisor in our P/U, but a strike with any sharp object will shatter a tempered window. In an emergency one could remove the key from the ignition, hold it with the tip pointing out from between two fingers, the blunt end of the key in your palm with a fist made, and punch the window hard. That might hurt a little bit, but should shatter the window. Or if a knife is handy, put the tip against he glass and whack the butt of the knife with your palm, same result...
Posted by: UncleGoo

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 05:16 PM

Tongue in cheek:

Placebo®--works on almost everything, almost every time. The real plus is you only have to carry one "med."
Posted by: Stu

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
Interesting - I've always found that the Inuprofen works great (for me) and Naprox is useless - does nothing for me

I agree, when I tore my knee up, both my Orth. Surgeon (teaching at Cornell Med school)and my G.P. both recommended Ibuprofen over Naprox both for the pain and the swelling. My physical therapist also suggested it.
Posted by: Yuccahead

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 08:39 PM

I too have found ibuprofen to work quite well for me. I have also taken Aleve thinking it was ibuprofen and took them every 4 hours instead of every 12. They worked well also but cave me a stomach ache for a couple of days. If you keep both of these in your kit, find a way to keep the dosage readable.
Posted by: KG2V

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 09:22 PM

[quote=IzzyJG99...snip...
Personally Tylenol (Kills your liver. Bad to give to anyone who has had any kind of Hep.) ...snip...[/quote]

I can't take Tylenol, because I'm also taking Hydocodone APAP, which has about the maximum safe daily dose of Acetominiphin anyway.

Back before the opiates, I found that Tylenol and Motrin and a synergistic effect (it's been documented too) - alternate them, each on it's own schedule

I keep saying my leg is messed up - if you look at what I take as pain killers, you'll get a hint HOW messed up - and adding MRSA on top of the wound is not fun. Other day, I had to wash my wound in the shower - by the time I walked from the tub to my room - say 25 ft, I had blood all the way down to the floor on my leg. People here talk about wound care - The Long Term phamacy ships me 50 4x4, 25 rolls Kerlix, plus my silver bandages, every 2 weeks, and I usually run out of 4x4s. One of the interesting things is the wound care MDs teach you how to change your own dressings (if they can) so I don't have to have a visiting nurse every other day, or go to the office 3x/week. I go 1-2x/week to have the wound washed out, and basic debridement done
Posted by: Oni

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/07/08 10:24 PM

Ok I think we've got painkillers covered now.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/08/08 12:59 AM

Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
[quote=IzzyJG99...snip...
Personally Tylenol (Kills your liver. Bad to give to anyone who has had any kind of Hep.) ...snip...


I can't take Tylenol, because I'm also taking Hydocodone APAP, which has about the maximum safe daily dose of Acetominiphin anyway.

Back before the opiates, I found that Tylenol and Motrin and a synergistic effect (it's been documented too) - alternate them, each on it's own schedule

I keep saying my leg is messed up - if you look at what I take as pain killers, you'll get a hint HOW messed up - and adding MRSA on top of the wound is not fun. Other day, I had to wash my wound in the shower - by the time I walked from the tub to my room - say 25 ft, I had blood all the way down to the floor on my leg. People here talk about wound care - The Long Term phamacy ships me 50 4x4, 25 rolls Kerlix, plus my silver bandages, every 2 weeks, and I usually run out of 4x4s. One of the interesting things is the wound care MDs teach you how to change your own dressings (if they can) so I don't have to have a visiting nurse every other day, or go to the office 3x/week. I go 1-2x/week to have the wound washed out, and basic debridement done [/quote]


Fat guy with foot in mouth walks in and hijacks the thread . . .

What was the initial wound to your leg? Sounds like combat wound if I am reading between the proper lines. For all the issues, if it was, sounds like whatever did the damage was contaminated with something. Kinda like the Vietnam era Punji Stakes.

Am I close? There is a reason I ask.
Posted by: Oni

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/08/08 05:28 AM

Officially hijacked
Posted by: KG2V

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/08/08 06:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Desperado

What was the initial wound to your leg? Sounds like combat wound if I am reading between the proper lines. For all the issues, if it was, sounds like whatever did the damage was contaminated with something. Kinda like the Vietnam era Punji Stakes.

Am I close? There is a reason I ask.


Venous Stasis ulcer, cause by bad blood flow due to vein dammage from an infection, oh 7 years ago
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/08/08 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
Originally Posted By: Desperado

What was the initial wound to your leg? Sounds like combat wound if I am reading between the proper lines. For all the issues, if it was, sounds like whatever did the damage was contaminated with something. Kinda like the Vietnam era Punji Stakes.

Am I close? There is a reason I ask.


Venous Stasis ulcer, cause by bad blood flow due to vein dammage from an infection, oh 7 years ago


Check PM

Hijacking over fat man was only a cardboard cut-out in the bank window.
Posted by: BOD

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/11/08 10:35 AM

The best kit is in your head and in your reactions.

The best story I heard was from a British Army instructor. The men were told by an officer that the exercise started now and they would be considered prisoners once captured.

One guy pushed passed him, leapt off the truck onto the hood of the next and dissappeared over tarp before anyone could react.

10 days later he turned up at the garrison. He'd spent the entire time in a hotel while the rest were in the bush, starving and later interrogated.

Some people wanted to court-martial him but wiser heads prevailed pointing out that what he did was exactly right. Escape as soon as possible. The more time that passes the options and environments avaible narrow
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/11/08 12:39 PM

A friend once went thru a survival school at Altus AFB, OK, which was next door to some Army facility. In the E&E portion of the class, right after a few days of being "prisoners," they were told to take off. In a short time they would be chased by locals who were acting as the badguys. If they managed to stay free for 24 hours the class was over, if captured they got two more days of prison. Then they were told not to go beyond such and such ridgeline, such and such fenceline, etc. My buddy, a former Eagle Scout, figured that was BS, so he beatfeet to the fence, hopped it, and spent the next 24 hours enjoying some well stocked Army outpost. Then hopped the fence again and went home...
Posted by: Oni

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/11/08 04:07 PM

I like that thinking, if you really had to escape a hostile force there are no rules. What exactly did he do when he got over the fence, did he go to the soldiers and tell the story or did he hide and use what resources he could find without their knowledge?
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/11/08 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
A friend once went thru a survival school at Altus AFB, OK, which was next door to some Army facility. . . My buddy, a former Eagle Scout, figured that was BS, so he beatfeet to the fence, hopped it, and spent the next 24 hours enjoying some well stocked Army outpost. Then hopped the fence again and went home...


Ahh, Altus AFB and Fort Sill Oklahoma, Home of the FIELD ARTILLERY! Sounds like your friend was extremely resourceful and VERY LUCKY that he didn't wind up in an artillery impact zone. That UXO can come back to haunt years after it didn't go bang.

Fort Sill is the Artillery training post for all of the branches of the DoD, and many foreign countries attend also. If you still have contact with him, send him a note that he was very lucky.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/12/08 03:02 AM

He said that he found an unoccupied tent camp, complete with generators and refers full of goodies. So he just goofed off, eating and drinking his fill...
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/12/08 03:04 AM

I lost contact with him 'bout 40 years ago, unfortunately.

Side note, not long after he went thru it there was a big congressional investigation, thanks to the high number of injuries and deaths that students were having, if I remember correctly a general or two retired a little early, and some farther down the chain just went looking for a new job...
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/12/08 03:22 AM

There was nothing like the first few nights trying to get sleep at Ft. Sill. The U.S. Army artillery and USAF C5's sang ya' to sleep every night. Three nights into basic training though and it didn't matter.

When asked about your date with the knife you said 12/12/09. Kinda planning ahead or is it 08?

Have you created your post-op PSK? Good Luck.


Posted by: BOD

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/13/08 02:50 AM

Smart guy.

The mere fact that the others let those in charge define their environment suggests that that would not be the ones to initate an escape for real.

Hope he did not get into trouble
Posted by: Brangdon

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/13/08 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: BOD
10 days later he turned up at the garrison. He'd spent the entire time in a hotel while the rest were in the bush, starving and later interrogated.

Some people wanted to court-martial him but wiser heads prevailed pointing out that what he did was exactly right. Escape as soon as possible.
I agree about escaping as soon as possible. However, often these exercises are attempting to simulate escaping in a foreign land. Checking into a hotel would probably get you arrested pronto.

There was a BBC TV series called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" that put civilian volunteers through faux SAS selection. During the E&E exercise they were told to stay away from roads. One of the women was found hitch-hiking. If she'd done that for real in a foreign country, it would be like hitch-hiking through England with a German accent during WWII. Anyone who meets you would turn you in.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/14/08 03:34 AM


For an E&E kit, how about one of these HERE

They say it is completely waterproof, but the one I have has tiny pin holes where the threads are. Makes me wonder if it really is IR undetectable like they say.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/14/08 04:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007

For an E&E kit, how about one of these HERE

They say it is completely waterproof, but the one I have has tiny pin holes where the threads are. Makes me wonder if it really is IR undetectable like they say.


Maybe the IR will only show up as a "connect-the-dots". laugh laugh laugh

My experience with FLIR tells me it will either show up due to being warmer or show up due to being cooler than the ground around it. You'll look like the blob. One must remember the newer FLIR stuff differentiates between 1/2 deg Celsius IIRC.
Posted by: BOD

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/15/08 08:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Brangdon
Originally Posted By: BOD
10 days later he turned up at the garrison. He'd spent the entire time in a hotel while the rest were in the bush, starving and later interrogated.

Some people wanted to court-martial him but wiser heads prevailed pointing out that what he did was exactly right. Escape as soon as possible.


I agree about escaping as soon as possible. However, often these exercises are attempting to simulate escaping in a foreign land. Checking into a hotel would probably get you arrested pronto.

There was a BBC TV series called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" that put civilian volunteers through faux SAS selection. During the E&E exercise they were told to stay away from roads. One of the women was found hitch-hiking. If she'd done that for real in a foreign country, it would be like hitch-hiking through England with a German accent during WWII. Anyone who meets you would turn you in.


This was in a foreign land where the people you refer to go to after they have passed selection. The towns were searched too.
Posted by: yelp

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/15/08 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Desperado
One must remember the newer FLIR stuff differentiates between 1/2 deg Celsius IIRC.


Man, if I'm ever in an evasion situation I'd be ecstatic if this attention to detail was adhered to. I'm the signal, everything else is the noise...you really think your basic black box operator is going to be able to figure the difference? Or maybe it's not a half a degree...make it two degrees...is that important? Or is that just differential heating depending on slope aspect and crushed grass (e.g., game trail)?

What constitutes an anomaly? Never forget the human element.
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/15/08 11:49 AM

Your probably right. The search and rescue stuff my brother-in-law carries on a USAR team is probably just falsely advertised. I am certain they didn't find me with that the last time I visited and helped out with their training. Must have been their flashlights in the dark. I am sure Raytheon here in the DFW area is looking for that kind of expertise to help them in truth in advertising.

Having gotten to "help" and been rewarded with getting to "play" with some Raytheon's new toys and visit with their tech team I am sure I must have been mistaken. I will say the color display IR stuff I got to "play" with was amazing and did have a resolution scale that went to 1/2 deg C IIRC.
Posted by: gonewiththewind

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/26/08 07:16 PM

FLIR is easy enough to beat with low tech solutions. The bad guys in Afghanistan trained for, and successfully used against us, methods for this. A good blanket covered with snow over their hole worked just fine.
Posted by: OldBaldGuy

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/26/08 10:16 PM

We lost some badguys in a corn field the size of Miami once. FLIR equipped chopper finally arrived, couldn't see a thing. I wanted to set the field on fire, but got outvoted on that one...
Posted by: Desperado

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/27/08 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
We lost some badguys in a corn field the size of Miami once. FLIR equipped chopper finally arrived, couldn't see a thing. I wanted to set the field on fire, but got outvoted on that one...


Don't know too much about the current choppers. The handheld device my brother-in-law used was color and very good stuff.

I like the idea of lighting the field on fire. Back to basics!
Posted by: JCWohlschlag

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/27/08 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Desperado
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
We lost some badguys in a corn field the size of Miami once. FLIR equipped chopper finally arrived, couldn't see a thing. I wanted to set the field on fire, but got outvoted on that one...

Don't know too much about the current choppers. The handheld device my brother-in-law used was color and very good stuff.

I like the idea of lighting the field on fire. Back to basics!

I bet it would have helped with the FLIR, too. Just look for the little bright spot running away from the massive bright spot. laugh
Posted by: Shawn0467

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/28/08 03:38 AM

This is a perfect shelter for E&E. Its a British issue item and has many uses. Going underground is the answer to many detection problems. The hole doesn't have to be as large as the tarp that is supplied. You could dig a hole just large enough to sit in, stake the top of the hole, sit down, lace up the stakes, and then pull the cover over the top(the cover will have been prepared with natural camo materials from your surroundings prior to this step making sure not to expose any of the tarp edges. If done correctly, it should be flat and even with the surrounding ground with grass or weeds standing up. The top layer of "Sod" should be saved intact and in one piece for the cover. Ever see the movie "Red Dawn" when they were at the gas station when the tank rolled in? They built simular holes. If you want some depth of soil over you to contain your heat signature or protect you from Gamma Ray bursts then you need to dig the hole deeper making sure the perimeter area above the hiding hole is bigger to allow you to lay the tarp down(an edge to hold down the stakes and tarp). You will also need to backfill an entrance from inside the hole since the top is solid dirt(up to 27" with the British kit). The dirt from the hole should be take a ways away from the hole(not drug on the ground) and made to look like an animal burrow perhaps. If there is a water supply near like a stream, river, or lake I suggest tossing it in. Here is a link.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shop/...ual-360959.html
Posted by: Shawn0467

Re: Escape & Evasion kits - 12/28/08 04:10 AM

Here is an interesting article about FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red Imagery) conducted on Polar Bears. Notice that there has to be a contrast between temp and dew point. Sun light also interferes as does snow, fog, and I would think rain. It says some dens will never be detectable. I wonder why? Are they deeper perhaps?

http://alaska.usgs.gov/science/biology/polar_bears/denning.html