Ike Survivors May Wait Weeks for Hot Meals, Baths

Are 72v hour kits enough? It's been over 72 hours since IKE hit, and people still are not getting supplies.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,423091,00.html

Ike Survivors May Wait Weeks for Hot Meals, Baths

HOUSTON —

Tens of thousands of residents first hunkered down to wait for Hurricane Ike's brutal punch. Those survivors on the wrecked Texas coast must now wait again — for food, water and ice, for the electricity to return to their homes, for that first hot meal and shower.

For some, the wait could be days. For others, it could be weeks.

"A good bath would be nice: have the fire department swing by and spray us down," said Carlos Silliman, 48, as he sat on a picnic bench in front of his Galveston Island home, where 18 inches of water flooded his garage and ruined a freezer full of venison. "I'm ready to have a cold beer and read the paper."

For most, such luxuries are far beyond the horizon. Many service stations have no gasoline, and some major highways remain under water. More than 30,000 evacuees are still living in nearly 300 public shelters, and roughly 2 million people in Texas alone are without power.
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Last I remember, a hot bath (or hot meal for that matter) wasn't a survival issue.

If they have food of some sort and water, they have enough for now. If they aren't getting any food or water at all, then that'd be a problem.

72 hour kit is plenty enough to make other arrangements. It is meant to get you by until you can find a way out of your troubles. It is not meant as a shelter in place indefinitely kit. If they are in Houston, there's plenty of places to go and get necessities, and even quite a few luxury items, including a hot bath. If they are in Galveston, they should've listened to the warnings before the storm hit.

With so many people still without power, I worry about the effects of prolonged heat for all these people without AC. Heat is by far the biggest weather-related killer although its effects are generally under-appreciated since heat is generally not the official cause of death. Add in a lack of readily available drinking water in many places or maybe even the avoidance of drinking water because of the lack of toilet facilities and you could have a lot of problems.

Here's my input on this:

THEY TOLD HIM TO GET THE HELL OUT.
THEY TOLD HIM THERE WOULD BE MASSIVE DESTRUCTION.
THEY TOLD HIM THAT THERE WOULD BE LITTLE OR NO SERVICES AFTER THE STORM.
THEY TOLD HIM THAT THEY NEEDED TO STAY OUT OF THE AREA.

What more does this guy need? Stone tablets engraved with a personalized evacuation notice.

They don't call evacuations for the hell of it. It's a major decision, and it's not easy or desirable for anyone.

Sorry, but they gave AMPLE warning on this, and made it very, very clear that "go time" was their one and only chance to bug out.

THIS is what it's all about - being equipped and prepared.

I'll agree on water. However, we got rid of our A/C several years ago, and I think I'm healthier for it. Your body CAN and WILL adapt to warm weather, given a chance. Water, though, that's a big issue. My other reply, though, applies here. There's a reason they told them to evacuate. This is it.

For relatively healthy people, I agree that you can adapt pretty easily to the heat even if you're used to living with AC all of the time. But many of the elderly folks or those with various health conditions aren't going to adapt so well to prolonged heat, especially if they can't cool down each night before experiencing the next day's heat. Those are the folks I'm most worried about.

Ditto.

Bug out, biatches.

OK - FEMA (spit), The Red Cross, Southern Baptists (who run a large percentage of the disaster kitchens), etc all say "you are totally on your own for at least 72 hours"

They Will probably get you food/water after 72 hours. It's probably NOT going to be hot water, or warm food. Don't expect a shower.

You don't need HOT food, and a hot shower to live. What shows up after 3 days is "Here is enough to keep you alive for another couple of days while we get back to you"

Think of it like a military operation. The folks you see at 72 hours are the "scouts" - they are light, move fast, and can do the very minimum - the main body of the forces comes slower, and later

If people stay and die.

Well sometimes the gene pool needs a little chlorine.

The point I was trying to make, and it seems rather poorly, was is a 72 hour supply of food and water enough? Aid is just getting to some places, still not in all.

I've never been in a hurricane, so someone needs to educate me. Is the flooding caused by ocean water or is it from the rain?

Because if it's from the rain, then wouldn't it be a good idea for everyone living in those areas to own a Katadyn water filter?

Sorry, thought I answered that the first time.

Yes, a 72 hour kit is enough. The storm is passed and the threat is not immediate. If they need to relocate(no longer an evacuation) to find supplies, now's their chance. Staying put if no supplies are being brought to them and a way out is accessible seems unrealistic.

The 72 hour kit is meant to get you through the critical period during the actual disaster event, and give emergency response enough time to get to you, if they are the only option, or to allow you to get someplace after the event is over where you can get aid or help yourself.

AC?? Hot baths?? People did just fine before AC's & hot water heaters were invented.

Izzy's correct CBGC. Think of storm surge like a wind driven tsunami.

I don't think a water filter is going to be effective because what's contaminating the water is not just bacteria, protozoans, and viruses, etc, from sewage but also oil, toxins (from businesses, etc), and stuff I can't even spell.

Think about filtering water out of a pothole and magnify that several million times...

Okay, it's hard to leave your home, anticipating that when you return, it will be destroyed or gone.

But what does staying accomplish?

One looter in front of you and one behind you, and you're dead.

Water higher than you anticipated, and you're dead.

Flying sheet metal at head-height, and you're dead.

You can't stop the ocean, the rain, the wind or a fire.

A local family is trying to reach their stubborn grandparents who refused to leave Galveston. The couple have a satellite phone, but there's no answer, and no one has heard from them. How do you suppose that is going to turn out?

Maybe America needs some REAL reality shows: dead bodies, dead babies, burned corpses, etc. Wishful thinking just isn't doing the job, is it?

SBRaider: if you have more, and can hold onto it (from whatever), you'll be better off if staying is your plan. It's just that sometimes, staying is no plan at all.

Sue

I carry well over 1 weeks supply food and water, plus 1 months supply meds in my Bug Out Yukon, along with a serious survival kit. I used to do SAR, time comes to go, I'm GONE. Personally, I've no faith in shelters, and given the choice, I'd shelter in my Yukon somewhere, if I could.

I've spent a lot of time on Galveston, Surfside and on Boliver. No way in h.... I'd stay anywhere near there with a hurricane coming.

From what I've noticed with Katrina, Ike, Andrew and to a lessor extrnt Rita, 3 days worth of supplies may not be enough. Aid has still not gotten to all in remote areas, and we are past the 72 hour time line. One of my buddies in Houston still has not seen any agency or government on his street. He has plenty of supplies, and is not worried.

"A local family is trying to reach their stubborn grandparents who refused to leave Galveston. The couple have a satellite phone, but there's no answer, and no one has heard from them. How do you suppose that is going to turn out? " Not Well.

Last I knew yesterday, we had some ETS'ers that haven't been heard from.

Gotta agree with you there, and in particular for a hurricane, which does not appear "suddenly".

Let me tell ya, the last time we had a flood warning (definite flooding), there were 12 hours to "go" for the folks on the river.

They cleared out EVERYTHING - I mean they pulled the outlets out of the walls, tore out the sheetrock and insulation on the first floors, removed the windows from the frames and took the doors off the hinges, pulled the kitchen cabinets out and yanked the circuit breaker panel from the basement.

The flood waters came and they were in a hotel 100 miles away with a truck parked outside with their stuff.

The flood waters went down, they came back, blew super-heated air through the house for 4 days, put up new insulation, sheetrocked, painted, put the furniture back, opened a beer and watched TV while their neighbors were still shoveling mud out of their living rooms.

My point is that the stakes are known, there's no surprises at all with a hurricane or flood It's not like fire, it's not even like an earthquake. You get a warning, a long warning. You ignore it at your own risk.

I agree with Martin on this one... but maybe the warnings need to be to the lowest common denominator. Instead of "certain death" they need say something like "Get the F&$* out!! You all gonna die!!!"

Also, instead of rescuing the 2000 or so folks that changed their minds at the last minute, say "tough. we told you. see you tomorrow." Have this happen a few times, and people will wise up to the fact that, yes, you need to leave when we say so.

As for a 72 hour kit, it's probably not enough. Personally, I have a case of MREs and 2 pallets of water (the commercial, 24 bottles/pallet type). That's my bare minimum, not counting the 3 days in my BOB, a few days in my car, or the "extra" stuff I have.

If there's a hurricane coming to me in Detroit, my explorer will be loaded in under 30 minutes, gassed up in the next 10, and heading somewhere else within 45

Interesting - I live in NYC, where there is a major chance of a 'caine, but I won't leave for a Cat2 - a 3, I'll probably be gone. Then again, I live 110ft above sea level, on the side of a hill. I have to worry about wind, but NOT about flooding

According to the NYC evacuation maps, I'm in the "doesn't need to evacuate" areas - no matter how much of a storm we get. Like I said, a 3 or more, I'm gone anyway

72 hours is the bare minimum, IMHO. I think that some the logic behind that recommendation is because people assume that the delivery and distribution of supplies will go as planned- after all, the US Navy can have supplies to people hit by the 2005 tsunami. The other part is it is based on part on earthquake plans for SoCal, where there are a a lot of supplies prepositioned (in theory) and earthquake damage is often more localized and sporadic then the utter eraser that is a large storm. And to no small degree due to the experiences of wilderness SAR teams- 90%+ of the time, you're found in under 72 hours.

A more cynical part of my brain wonders if some it might becuase 72 hours out after a significant nuclear exchange, your hair and skin have fall off anyway.

As someone who's fairly rural, 120 hours is what I design for. Partially because it can take a day for a good ice storm to pass, then another day just get down towns cleaned up, I know that 72 hours just doesn't do it for me.

I like that concept. But a truck big enough to handle furniture, sheet rock, insulation, "stuff", etc, has gotta be one big truck. Not to mention that pulling sheetrock from a wall usually ends up breaking it in to littler pieces...

Yup. Your home is your home, and the stuff in it is your stuff, but it is all just "stuff." None of it worth your life, let alone the lives of your family. Get out...

Tell them there's unlimited free beer 100 miles down the road.

Okay, here's my thinking on the 72 hour kit, and the situations you need to use it for.

the 72 hour kit is intended to get you through the actual event, and either get you through till help arrives if that's possible, or give you the chance to get out and find better conditions elsewhere, or retreive essentials to extend your stay. The 72 hour kit is big enough to get your through the critical period of the event, but small enough to be portable. The 72 hour kit is not the same as a shelter in place kit, which would be more robust to provide for an extended stay without the means for egress or re-supply.

Here's Doug's take on the 72 hour kit:

http://www.equipped.org/72hourkit.htm

Doug's blog on 8/30/08 is worth the read too. It speaks to the mindset of our Society, and this "help me" mentality.

His contention is premised more towards the staying put needs, vs the notion of moving out once the weather settles down as I prefer. I guess it depends on what you perceive the 72 hour kit's purpose for. For me, it has never been anything more than to get me by during the storm, or the eruption, or the whatever, until I can emerge and seek life elsewhere. The last thing I intend to do in any temporary crisis is sit around and wait for help to come to me (yes, there are exceptions, again, not what I would plan a 72 hour kit for). If I am immobilized, then I have needs that would exceed even a one week kit I am sure, knowing what it would take to immobilize me like that.

72 hours of supplies is not *nearly* enough if you plan to stay behind for a hurricane, not even in the best case areas.

I grew up on Galveston Bay and we had *three weeks* of food, drinking water, cooking fuel, medical supplies. We also had experience at camping in the woods.

(this was back when "camping" did not require the use of electric generators, TVs, cell phones, etc)

I had said here that the longest we were without electricity was 18 days but my mother tells me it was only 12 days. This is perhaps 2 miles from the NASA campus, not in the backwoods somewhere..

Three weeks is clearly not too much for a coastal area. Further inland such as Blast's home I might be willing to go with as little as 10 days if I could be confident of evacuation should supplies prove insufficient.

IMO, a 72 hr kit is what you grab as you go out the door as a hazmat incident, industrial type explosions, etc start occurring next door.

In the case of a hurricane, which you get early warnings of: You leave with everything that you can pack into your vehicle(s). You will leave the majority of your emergency supplies at home as a "cache" to be utilized upon your return, providing there is a home left to reside in and/or there is an absence of utilities when I arrive back home.

Item to note: After the official FEMA statement, on their website, recommends everyone to keep 3 days of supplies at the top, the bottom section also states that 2 weeks of supplies on hand is advised, if the individual can do it....

That's a rough translation from memory.

Blast's experience:

72 hours is only enough if you don't mind waiting for hours in line with angry, stinky people(pic coming) to get a bag of ice, a jug of water and and MRE "Happy Meal" (pic coming). That is after you've burned half you gasoline trying to get to a distribution center. Then you have to do it again the next day, repeat every day until things return to normal.

If you only have 72 hours worth of food/water/batteries you are going to be miserable. Stock up as much as you can and turn the apocolypse into a vacation. We keep our pantry stocked to the point of bursting so my experiences with the 4-hour lines of stinky, angry people has just been taking pictures of them and feeling a combination of pity and smugness).

This applies to bugging-in.

-Blast

Blast, my philosophy appears to be skewed from the standard.

Would a 72 hour kit be enough for you to survive the hurricane and then leave to a better suited location with no real supply issues?

Assuume you might have to walk out after the storm is over.

The reason I ask is that my BOB from Baghdad was supposed to get me by for three days, with the outcome to be relocation as soon as possible after an "event". Is that not a functional mindset in this scenario? Would relocating after the fact not be a viable option?

Yes, in a situation as you describe where you would bug out once it was safe too, 72 hours of supplies would be fine. The storm died down around 4pm Saturday afternoon. Most urban and suburban roads were passable by noon the next day (men with chainsaws live for such events). I don't know about rural roads, though. But in under 24 hours you could have been on the road heading to safety. Gas was gone along the interstate but I've been told you could find it in at gas stations in the towns or on the sides of the towns away from the freeways.

-Blast

Okay, different mindset then I guess.

How much water did you put up in preparation for the storm?

24 1-gal jugs (12 bought on May 1st of this year, 12 left over from last year's hurricane season)
18 500mL bottles
18 250mL bottles
3 7-gal Aquatainers
1 2.5-gal Aquatainer
1 1-gal Coleman jug
3 55-gal drums of rainwater for flushing toilets, bathing cats, etc...

36 cans of soda, a case of juice boxes, and a case of freezy-pops.

Four 2qt Gladware and eight 1qt Gladeware containers of frozen water for the freezers.

Uh, and a little alcohol.

I've been tracking my consumption of liquids and it's been 1.5 gallons of water per day, two sodas, and assorted mixed drinks/beer.

-Blast

That is more than what I had before Fay. but then it was just me and the kid here, and Fay never looked that bad coming in.

In light of Texas's excessively hot weather I always stash tons of water, even when hiking. Thirst is unpleasent.

I've given away about 5 gallons to neighbors who weren't as prepared.

-Blast

most of the time i just scan these posts or go to ones that have
survival information i can really use--north woods and water survival--but i read this one all the way thru..what other folks in this country have to plan for and put up with is amazing. talking about how many days worth of food and water put away like it's water cooler chat about the local team..

That's funny, back in Minnesota my folks still keep a month of food on hand "in case of a blizzard". Of course, they also lived through the Great Depression. That taught lessons you never forget. I'm just doing what they taught me, but with extra water, and, uh extra booze...

-Blast

Depends, for the first few miles or so along the coast (and rivers emptying into the coast) flooding is due to ocean water being blown inland as giant waves. Farther in the flooding is due to rain (my house got over 15" of rain in under 24 hours).

-Blast

Extra booze is always good. Always...