Free sailboat?

A good friend, who is an experienced boat owner and knowledgable in the building trades, called me late yesterday. "How would you like a free sailboat?"

He knows I am going to need a place to live very soon, and that I have been trying to find a sailboat to liveaboard. So, I am going along with the gag, "What do you have?"

"How about an all wood, classic sailboat in the midst of total renovation, that the owner just wants to walk away from." A couple of phone conversations later I put a call in to the supposed owner to see if he really wants to give the boat away - no return call yet.

So, what to do. My friend says the boat is gorgeous but a bit grimy and somewhat torn up here and there while cosmetic repairs and restorations are in progress. Definitely liveable as-is. Engine turns over, sails are in good shape, and my friend would help me sail/motor the boat to a berth nearer to my hometown (about 60 miles all through the Delta).

My friend would take it himself but when he talked to his wife - well, the bottom line is that he cannot. The question is, should I take on this boat?

Restoring the boat to its former glory would probably be a project of years and many dollars. On the other hand I could just live on it, do the minimum to keep things habitable, and try to sell it down the line to someone with more passion for classic boats and deeper pockets.

Assuming the boat was minimally sound, it would be a welcome and an immediate housing solution. If my friend is right about the intrinsic value of the boat it might even lead to enough money to get a more modern, though modest, boat later on.

What do you think?

Thanks.

And, yes, I am well aware that free boats are always the most expensive.

I'd take a look and give it due consideration. If you don't, you might cheat yourself out of an opportunity to fill a need, even if it turns out to be only a temporary solution.

I had a free lunch once, it didn't taste all that great. Maybe you will have better luck. It worked in Captain Ron.

Good luck if you take it...

Tough call! "Free" is good but when I think "all wood", I KNOW that means "work". I have some teak on my fiberglass 31' sailboat and I wish it was stainless steel instead! But....if the engine is working, sails are good, hull is sound, you will only be out the cost of moving and a slip fee. Worse case, you end up needing to find a buyer who wants to take it on, which could take a while...let us know what you decide.

Being it's a wooden boat, if you like what you see when you look at it, I would recommend having a survey done on it. It will cost you some money, but will give you peace of mind that you have a decent hull under you. "Free" won't be free if you are dealing w/a rotting issue you can't see on the surface. You don't want to have to vacate your new home to get it fixed later.

Good luck.

btw, let us know which classic design it is. And the particulars - length, sail plan, hull design, etc. Would be interesting to know why he wants to walk away from the renovation as well.

Why not? It's free!

If you're not happy with it, you can have fun sinkin it! LOL

Who built her and when? Is it a name you can google and get a clue about reputation? Is it big enough to truly live aboard or will it get old quick?

If all the present owner is doing is cosmetic, he probably thought the hull was solid or why bother with cosmetics. Then again, why is he walking away?

Having a survey done is a good idea. Those guys will find problems and potential problems. She may have some "issues" that can be easily remedied, the survey will let you know.

Free only means you have no up-front expenses. Operation, maintenance, et al are not necessarily cheap.

Take a digital camera with you when you look at it and post the pictures here.

This sounds like a great opportunity!!!! Which also raises "Red Flags" as to why this opportunity has presented itself.

It sounds like it is worth looking at as long as you will look at it from a "buyer's point of view"!!!

It may be a great alternative as you have been thinking of irt a living/bug out asset. Just be critcal while you're inspecting and then you can make an informed decision. If the boat is drydocked, who will pay to put it into the water ($$$)?

"...you can have fun sinkin it..."

After insuring it heavily. Oh wait, that's illegal...

I think you need more info. Even something free can cost you something to dispose of. I once received a free volkswagen 1500 and thank goodness I only lost about 8 hours of time. The kicker will be when they sign their name on the line and can prove there is no lien on it. Like you said, the economy in your area ain't so good.

Your situation may be different, but time isn't something I like to lose.

On the other hand, I know a guy who got a great deal on a clean alfa romeo convertible because it was in the wifes name and she was divorcing the husband who drove it. "Get here within 45 minutes and you can have it for $1000" was what she said. Too much skepticism can be a bad thing.

Um, journalling here... but you need a lot more info.

Just a thought... have you considered living in a motor home instead of a boat? Or a trailer behind your vehicle instead of a boat? This way you can go from camp ground to camp ground... some free, some non-camp grounds.? Just another thought that can be cheap.

Yes, I have even joined a couple Yahoo boondocking groups. My original sailboat choice is highly trailerable to get the best of several worlds.

How would you boondock in a sailboat? I’m not a sailboat person, but don’t they all have a big long fin that sticks down? Traveling and driving under an overpass could make things interesting.


Does anyone boondock in any boat?

That's what makes trailer-sailers interesting: their keel swings up into a "trunk" inside the hull. With the keel retracted they can safely beach, and sit in a very low profile on a trailer. MacGregors and a few others feature water ballast that is drained at the ramp when the boats come out to lighten them for trailering.


They also have a relativley quick way to take the mast down and trailer it fastened to the top of the boat.

Well that's a nice idea

It's called "Gunk Holing".

"Gunk Holing" is the practice of taking a small vest pocket cruiser via trailer to remote lakes and/or rivers and exploring the areas. Vest Pocket Cruisers are usually too small for comfortable sleeping arrangements but they have plenty of storage capacity (volume and weight) for the 1 or 2 person crew to store all of the camping equipment, food, water, and miscellaneous equipment onboard for a 2-7 day trip back into the boonies.

The fins on smaller sailboats (many of them) are easily removable by hand.

Some trailerable sailboats have a short keel fin and a deep keel that is heavily ballasted and runs from the stem to the stern. These type designs are primarily meant to be both more easily trailerable and have a shallow water (3 ft draft) capability that the Deep Finned (8-9 ft draft) boats don't.

The Hunter 26 & 29 (*I have no affiliation*) have a hybrid hull design that will take up to a 150 hp outboard engine on the transom and have a removable fin. These boats also have a mast that can easily be mounted or dismounted by 2 people or 1 person if they buy the kit that helps. They have a galley (alcohol stove and sink, with space reserved for an ice chest), combined with a salon, will sleep about 4-5 persons, a small head with toilet, sink, and shower), as well as a small closet for hanging clothes.

It's the Hunter 29 that my DW and I are planning to use in our retirement job.

Off tomorrow early to see what might be my new hole-in-the-water-in-which-to-throw-money. The timing is wretched of course. Will report.

Edit: So much for that plan. No sailboat inspection until at least next Tuesday.

Long talk with the saiilboat owner by phone. Confirmed the boat is a give-away; he explained that he had moved and just wasn't using the boat enough to justify the $600+ per month it was costing him to berth, insure, etc.

Turns out he and I grew up in the same town, and the boat was made in our hometown by a world class boat maker that is still in the luxury boat business. Had what seemed to me a candid conversation about what the boat needs to get "up to snuff."

We'll see what the inspection next Tuesday reveals.

Sounds like you may have found a great deal. Good luck.

Wish someone was giving away a nice Chrysler/Mercedes sprinter van...

John E

Me, too!

$600.00 a month, is that going to fit in with your plans if you take over possession and also the expenses?

That boat sounds like it may be too good and yet still true -- good luck, hope it works out.

I'm still waiting for that free AR-15 to come my way.

(YoDuh, you paying attention here???)

As long as it isn't pointed your way.

Hopefully he hasn't figured out the safety yet...

Current owner has it berthed in San Francico Bay. I would be bringing it into the low rent Delta about a days sail upstream / east.

OK, $600.00 sounds like a lot.

I have lined up an escort boat that can do some towing / pushing to get the sailboat out of / into marinas if the motor or sails fail.

I will have boat insurance and tow assist insurance in place.

I will have both a couple of guest docks spots along the route and at least a temporary marina home for the boat close to where I hope to "permanently" berth it.

I am going to bring a charged 12-volt battery,long leads and hoses, and a bilge pump set up in case the bilge pump on the boat fails or is inadequate (the boat has been in the water at berth for a couple years supposedly without taking on any significant water).

The VHF radio on board supposedly works. We will be in cell phone territory the whole way.

I will pick a time when the tide and wind are both pushing inland.

I already have maps and charts of the route - most of which which I actually know pretty well already.

What else am I forgetting that can make bringing home the boat a little safer?

Thanks.

Edit: Better check the Coast Guard equipment. I will bring a couple extra fire extinguishers.

I should be able to cut that at least in half.

$300.00 sounds a lot better. Does that include dockside electricity?

If not I would think about solar and wind power with a battery bank and an inverter.

Probably does not include electricity. Solar and wind power systems are being researched. The boat has a main-engine-powered generator and very large house batteries.

Good luck, dweste. I hope it works out for you.

Take a look at this site, the guy shows how he built a wind generator for a low price.

http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html

"...What else am I forgetting..."

Not for getting there, but a can/bottle of your favorite adult beverage to celebrate your arrival?

Have a fun sail, be sure to wave at all those bikini clad gals on the way...

After inspecting the boat yesterday, things are getting more serious. Pending a satisfactory marine survey and at least one sea trial with the owner to shake out each sail and get some idea how she handles, I think we are going to do business.

The lines of hull and cabin, the cabinet-maker quality woodwork and carving here and there, the ridiculously serviceable heavy brass hardware - well, I have never seen anything quite like it.

On the other hand, the decking has taken a beating and will take a lot of work. The cockpit has a couple cracked hatch covers to storage lockers, and it looks like one cover was replaced with a modern plastic thing that will just have to go. I suspect the sails are a bit tired. The standing and running rigging looks suprisingly good - but appearances may be deceiving.

Looks like a lot of paint is coming off. I suspect most of the topside paint and all the hull paint will have to be removed and replaced.

The electrical stuff will probably want a complete overhaul, but somebody qualified will have to do a complete inspection. I worry about the engine. Because of work being done on an electric bilge pump, it was not possible to open the door to evaluate the head, but through the four inch opening I could see what looked like a sink and marine head.

There appear to be three bilge pumps: one electric pump on a manual swithch, one electric pump set up on an automatic switch, and a manual pump with what looks like a very new diaphram/bellows. Only tested the manual pump and it worked well.

More later as things develop.

Sounds good, hope it works out!!

-Todd

Looks like it may work out for you, yea there will be obstacles to work through. It’s like anything in life, you keep at it and work through all the problems and you end up with something you want.


Keep us posted, do some before and after pictures. I’m sure a lot of us would like to see it.

Started requesting quotes for a pre-purchase marine survey.

Checked the vessel in the USCG registry - it matches what the owner told me and what I saw in documents on the boat.

Located one good berth option; looking for others.

Owner emailed for permission for haulout, marine and engine surveys. Two haulout places recommended by potentiol surveyor investigated online for rates.

Worried a bit about moving the boat from saltwater to freshwater.

Couple of friends are set to pay for haulout and surveys, buy the boat, and let me rent it. Saying some prayers about angels.

Good luck with your journey

Why would they need to buy it (and you pay rent) if it’s a free boat?

Someone has to take title, that is, "buy" it for the purpose of registration, insurances, etc. The system doesn't understand gifts.

The "free" boat cannot be insured unless it is hauled out and surveyed, traditionally by the prospective buyer. The boat cannot be berthed without insurance that names the marina as an additional insured. All this is paid by the "buyer."

So "free" really just means less expensive.

Given my financial collapse, that may still involve bankruptcy, I cannot front these costs nor would it make sense to put my name on title if I could. So, my friends will "buy" the boat if it passes survey and I will be a tenant on the boat paying rent sufficient to at least cover monthly berthing, utilities, etc.

Together we will figure out maintenance and repair responsibilities; a sailing schedule, etc. My friends also want to sail and learn improved sailing skills.

If I recover financially and my friends want to sell, perhaps I can buy the boat in the future. If not, my friends will not be in too deep. In any event I get relatively inexpensive living quarters for a while and the opportunity to live on and sail the boat.

OK just wondering.


Did you look at that RV site http://www.cheaprvliving.com/
It may give you more options.

Yes, thanks. I was looking at an rv or van before the sailboat idea seemed viable, had joined some discussion forums, and was directed to that site. Some good ideas for living wherever.

I can see why you must do it this way. But if you have to do a lot of work (maintenance, repairs, etc) on the boat, thereby increasing its resale value, are you going to get any of that back, or do they just get to make more money when they sell???

I would think a van or RV would be a better choice in your situation. It’s going to be a lot less expensive.


Lots of large motor homes and RVs are for sale right now for a good price because of the gas priced. Park one in an RV park and you can live inexpensively.

"... Park one in an RV park and you can live inexpensively..."

Being a full time RV'r, and not a sailor of any kind, I would have to agree with you. But there are RV parks, and then there are RV parks. The less expensive one are often full of "trailer trash," those with their RVs anchored to the ground with spiderwebs and supported by the stack of empty beer cans and bottles, loud screaming and yelling going on 24/7. Those without such problems often do not have a monthly rate, making them very expensive. And prices of course vary around the country. Friends were recently workampering at a place in Florida, got fed up with their boss, and quit. Then they discovered that the monthly rate for a site in that area was $800. They really had to scramble to find another "home." Many KOA's (which we avoid like the plague) cost upwards of $50 a night!!!

In my area berthing will run about $250 per month plus electricity. For a little more, like about $25 per month, you can join a yacht / sailing club, get beter security, and get lots of shore amenities and privileges. That's less than $10 per day.

My parents have a friend that lives in an RV and have it parked in a campground I go camping in a lot, it an OK place, it’s kept up nice but not the active place most campgrounds are. It’s owned by a church group and they also allow anyone to camp there. It’s strange but I have only seen any church camping group use it 2-times in the last 5-years. They do use the rental hall for meetings about twice a month, but that is 200-yards away from where I camp and they are gone by 1:00 in the afternoon and are very nice people. It has no store, no card games every night. But it does have a nice shower / bathroom building and a pond with canoes, row boats and those paddle boats (all free to use. And a large in-ground pool. It’s $850.00 for a year for a site. It is out in the country, but of all the campgrounds in this area my son and I like it the most.

I agree with you on avoiding KOAs, they are overpriced.

Looks like we are going down Monday to do an impeller and oil change on the boat engine, after which the owner will motor us out into the bay for an informal sea trial.

Awesome!!

Hope you stay afloat

Post a picture of the boat.

Yeah! Post a lot of pictures, engine compartment, the marina it's at, what slip #, maybe where the wood is rotting and where you store your hammers

Guys, I am keeping most of the details under my hat until we sign the deal. Then I will probably bore you with detail and pictures.

Come to think of it, even if we do not proceed I will detail why this was not be the survival bug-in, bug-out boat for me.

So I am trying to find an impeller for a Gray Marine 4-cylinder, 4-stroke motor - no can find in Stockton on Saturday morning. No one has a clue about part numbers or anything that could lead to selecting the proper impeller, oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, etc.

There are plenty of online places that will sell manuals, but I cannot find a manual or parts list online. And I did learn the name and place where they are still repairing and rebuilding Gray Marine engines in Stockton - on weekdays.

Well, maybe on Monday the engine wil purr like a kitten right away without any TLC.

Yet another reason I have always prefered to have my days off during the week...

First impression: if a boat is "documented" with the Coast Guard it does not have to be registered with the California DMV. Coast Guard documentation means the USCG has issued a marine certificate.

How the heck did DMV let this one go? Must have been forced by the feds.

Info from another online forum:

"Between 1939 and 1958 Gray Marine produced eight different four cylinder marine engines.

All engines used SAE 30 weight oil.

The Gray Marine manual shows two types of water pumps, a fresh water pump with a cast-iron impeller and a raw water pump with a six fin Sherwood neoprene impeller. For the neoprene impeller just compare the size/configuration of your impeller with the outlines shown on page 702-703 of the 2008 West Marine catalog. Any marine supply store will have a similar chart."

If I had to guess, USCG documentation could make one assume that the vessel would be operated in the ocean, not inland waterways. But that is just an early morning WAG...

Usually banks require the vessel to be documented vice state registered if they are to be financed. I have been told that documenting a vessel makes it a quasi "US citizen". Basically, if the vessel is impounded by a forgein government, the US government can exert some diplomatic pressure. Not the same if it is state registered. Good luck and hope it helps.

The US government protects you from foreign governments (probably not that well as us tax payers are low priority outside election time) but who protects us from the US government?

Back on the boat today with the owner and a couple of my friends.
Lots of gear in the dock box and onboard protected by nothing I could see. The owner does not know any of his neighbors.

Of course "the bloom is off the rose" as far as his feelings about the boat and its gear, and he has never considered being a livaboard. His ex- squashed the cruise dream, apparently.

We are negotiating for a period of time to have the exclusive right to buy, so my brain trust would be willing to pay for a haul out and survey.

Bringing the boat back will take work, money, and time. Some of the effort will be to add security.

So now we have an exclusive right to buy through October 2008, plus a tentative agreement to pay engine repair / service (not survey) cost 50/50 now - with reimbursement to the seller if we buy.

Now to try to coordinate engine survey-repair-service, haulout, marine survey, insurance, etc.

If all goes well, we would like to motor / sail the boat the 60 or so miles upriver to Stockton by mid-October so we can secure the boat for the rainy season.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Buy? Thought this was a freebie?

Whatcha gonna buy?

John E

$1 price for the books.

I can tell you tht the boat is a 1959 Stephens Brothers mahogany-hulled racer-cruiser known as a Farallon Clipper 38. She was made in my hometown, Stockton, California. A classic woden boat, teak decking, lots of custom woodwork, etc. She is in rough shape.

Here is an article about Stephen’s Brothers:

http://www.elegantmagazine.com/webapp/articles/?c_id=24&i_id=5

Here is a site covering a Master Mariner’s race that has two photos of what look very much like this boat (foreground of the start photo and two closest boats with Golden Gate in background):

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-05-28&dayid=119

Two Farallon Clipper 38's apparently sail this race every year.

My work now is to coordinate engine repair/service/evaluation to be able to both test sail the boat and get it to a boatyard for survey and haulout. My secondary effort is to compile a no-go list of conditions/ reasons to not go through with the acquisition.