Gas Prices

I would like to share this email I recently got:

THIS IS NOT THE 'DON'T BUY' GAS FOR ONE DAY, BUT IT WILL SHOW YOU HOW WE CAN GET GAS BACK DOWN TO $1.30 PER GALLON.

This was sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. If you are tired of the gas prices going up AND they will continue to rise this summer, take time to read this please.

Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May!
It's worth your consideration. Join the resistance!!!!

I hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down?

We need to take some intelligent, united action. The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas.

It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can Really work. Please read on and join with us!

By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $2.00 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.98 for regular unleaded in my town.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace...not sellers.

With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action.

The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas.

But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL.

If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) .. and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers.
If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all!

(If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am . so trust me on this one.

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!
Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $2.00 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK.


Keep it going

I personally would like to avoid Shell as well.

Why this doesn't work.

-Blast

Thanks Blast,
I'll pass that link on to who sent me the email.

Consider yourself lucky, I live where most of the oil in Canada is and gas is predicted to go up to $1.50- $1.75 PER L as opposed to per GAL.

I may need to trade in the Ram for a smart car soon.

Just done a quick convertion.

I pay 1.57 euro's a litre for diesel. Which works out at about $9.25 a gallon.

Going to work by car is starting to hurt.

I guess it all comes down to:
What is the "correct" price for gas?

The answer is:
Whatever people will pay to get it.

If gas is $4/gallon and you are still buying it, then it must be worth that much to you.

I hate "chain mail" in general. Most of the stuff sent around is false or misleading anyway. Actually, the misleading ones are the worst because there is a certain logic to them that can snare people.

I was going to begin one of my customarily long-winded posts, but I checked Blast's link and that Snopes webpage basically says what I was going to say. Particularly here in California, there are few refineries producing the California-specific blend of gas, so everyone buys from the same limited pool of refineries.

If gas consumption is a zero-sum game and you're just shifting around where you buy the gas but keep the overall demand at the same level, there's no way you can drive down the price overall. As consumers, the only effective thing we can do is to consistently reduce demand, either by driving less, less often, or driving significantly more fuel efficient cars.

I doubt that any executive level manager would be so naive and ignorant of basic economics to actually come up with such a plan for price reduction.

I'm not sure about the US but I'm fairly certain that in Canada, the major fuel manufacturers have a deal to share pipelines anyhow. By boycotting one all you're doing is hurting the guy who runs that station.

A far healthier world...filled with really cranky people.

-Blast

"If gas is $4/gallon and you are still buying it, then it must be worth that much to you."

IOW, stop going to work, stop going to the doctor, stop going to the grocery store, right?

Or did you have something specific in mind?

Sue

I'm sure anybody who cared about the price of fuel would easily reduce their usage by not buying the expensive gas if they could but it's easier said than done.

...Like Susan pointed out.

Our society runs on oil so to reduce fuel usage by not buying any isn't always possible...New, fuel effecient cars cost money and people need to be able to get from point A to point B. I take the bus to work...or walk...but not everybody is so lucky to have the option.

IMO there are other ways to reduce the uses of fuel than to stop driving.

Some others I can think of are:

• Buy products which are made/grown locally. The farther away something has to come to get to you, the more fuel it takes to get it there. Buy local produce at the very least...typically that's the easiest. I only buy locally made honey and try to hit the farmers market as often as I can for my veggies and cheese.
• Buy products and services from 'green' companies. Many companies have started being more and more environmentally friendly...while this is usually in the form of a 'carbon footprint', it can also result in less fuel being consumed during the manufacture and delivery of their products.
• Work from home. Not always an option I know but more and more companies are embracing the work from home philosophy.
• Have your groceries delivered. It's a service that many major cities have. It's going to take way less gas for a dude in a station wagon to deliver groceries to 5 families than it is for each of those familys to pile into the minivan and drive to Safeway for their milk and eggs.

(I guess my last two ARE by stopping driving...but you get the point )

OK, how's this? I'll send an email around asking everyone to stop driving to the gym. That'll bring the oil companies to their knees!

Actually, if everyone just stopped going to work it would solve alot. No customers to buy gas because they have no money. Companies would go out of business, thereby saving even more energy.

Its not that it's worth so much. It's that there's no other choice. They(the big corporations) got everyone buy the b***s and they know it. It's like smoking. A while ago here in Canada tobacco prices went through the roof and the govt said it was as a deterent to get people to quit. They didn't want people to quit, they just knew that people would pay no matter the price.

As For gas prices, people will whine and complain(myself included) but at the end of the day I dont see many people I know deciding to just walk to work to save money. I love my 4x4 HEMI and I wont trade it in or stop driving it even if gas hits $1.75 per L (and they know I won't so they got me at a checkmate)

IMHO anyway

The winter before last I stopped driving and rode my bicycle to work 14km each way every day. I started because my car broke down and kept doing it because of the FU factor.

In other words, if you are willing to pay $4 a gallon to get to work, then I'm forced to assume getting to work is worth at least $4 a gallon to you.

It costs me about $7 a day for gas to get to get to work and back. A day's pay is somewhat more than that (not as much more as I'd like). If it goes up to $9 a day, its still worth it.

I'm not saying I like it, but I have no more right than anyone else to say that a price is "too high".

here in so cal i just paid $3.799/gal for regular - 87 proof.

worth it? nah, just a necessary evil for which i currently have no other options.

Ok, I probably will get some arrows in the back on this one, but, I just don't see the gas prices as a big deal, with any kind of perspective.

In the last 30 years or so, gas has gone up a little more than triple, but, then again, so has household income. (In the US anyway)

The average house cost has gone from about $54,000 back then to, well, you pick a price, but, it's certainly tripled.

A stamp was 13 cents, next months first class stamp is 42 cents.

Eggs were 48 cents, now they're $2.18.

If you were invested, the DJIA closed 1978 at: 805, it's well over 12,000 now. (That's a lot more than triple)

I guess the comparisons could go on and on, but, the difference between the gas prices and the other things is that for a long time, we've been pretty lucky/spoiled in the US with energy that was cheaper than most of the rest of the developed world. I remember travelling through Europe in the 80's and 90's and thinking just that, and they had already shrunk their vehicles into little toy cars by then. (I always hated to rent one of those little deathtraps over there and then be surrounded by folks driving like they were Mario Andretti.)

It was nice while it lasted here in the good ole US of A, but, the recent increases just bring the price more in line with other price increases over time. It has come in a much shorter time than other things, so it's more noticible, and so you get a lot of, well, crying about it. Gas has done this before, and got a lot of notice then too. Gas doubled between 1978 and 1980, from about 65 cents to $1.25+/gallon. That was fun, we had cars back then that got under 10 miles/gallon. The good news is, we had unemployment at almost 7% back then, and inflation was out of control. At least some things have come down since then.

Ok, just figured somebody had to say it. Go back to your regularly scheduled rant

PS: We did have some great things that came out of 1978, for example: The Deer Hunter, Animal House, The Rockford Files, Charlies Angels (the original...you know, Farah, Jacqueline, and the smart one)

and in comparison, gas is cheaper by the gallon than milk or water.

we're paying what the euros have been paying for years.

don't like it, don't buy any.

simple.

That's a pretty good point. We can complain, or plot and scheme, but in the end, if you feel you're spending too much on gas, the only thing you really can do is buy less. By whatever means you find available to do that. On the other hand, it may be worth it to you to drive the vehicle you want, as much as you want, however much you want, price be damned. We all have to make choices, money spent one place can't be spent another (no matter what congress seems to think about its spending). And to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, the first and most important right is the right to take responsibility for our actions.

Here's my strategy, and it's pretty simple. Keep doing whatever I have to to make my income increase faster than the cost of living. Otherwise, make do with less. It is simple economics to me.

Starting from nothing, you can still manage to find an equilibrium to exist within, so then you trade off desire, convenience, freedom for opportunity. Capitalize on the opportunity, and look for more. Get out ahead of the crowd and stay there. Be willing to do what others are not, and always be in a position to negotiate a better deal.

I don't care if gas prices go to $10 a gallon. I will just use that as yet another point to ask for more with the next opportunity, or I will learn to make do with less.

That's life. Prices only go down in the long term due to obsolesence. Everything else is always going to cost more tomorrow. There are no exceptions. It is a vicious cycle of illusion. The work I am doing today is of no greater value than that which my father did 30 years ago, it's just the money I am paid with is worth a lot less, and will continue to devalue so long as greedy people believe they can still get something for nothing.

Kate Jackson..always my favorite..loved her raspy voice.

You are born, you spend just about every dime, you die...How's that for simple?

I'm with you. Evaluate, Adapt, Morph, Re-evaluate.

That's about it, you can squeeze the peach soft, and get just a few drops of juice, or you can squeeze it real hard, and wring out about as much as the peach holds. You only get the one peach, and it may not be the same as anyone else's, but it is still up to you to decide how much of it you get to enjoy, or not. Either way ends up in the pits, so might as well get what you can out of it.

For those rooting for an alternative to fossil fuel-powered cars, high gas prices do tend to encourage R&D into alternatives and makes them more cost-comparable.

The really frustrating thig is that I've heard that the original Model T got about 25 mpg. Also, until the internal combustion engine got cheap and relatively reliable, there were electric cars competing with early models.

So it's taken us a hundred years of "R&D," to use it loosely, to make cars that's less fuel efficient and environmentally unfriendly that we originally started with.

If work hadn't had to move across town I'd be tempted to try biking it a couple days a week. With the distance and the traffic on the roads I'd have to travel now there's no way, no how, not on your life.

It's almost tripled in the last five or so years & my income hasn't come anywhere near to that. In 01/01/02 the average for regular here was about $1.24. Today the average is $3.09 with the companies making record profits. I don't have a problem with companies making a decent profit but I do with record profits and near record (after adjusting 70's prices for inflation) prices at the same time.

edit: fixed date & added source

"...high gas prices do tend to encourage R&D into alternatives and makes them more cost-comparable."

Where on earth did you get that??? There was a 'gas shortage' in the 70s, and prices went up fast and stayed there. America's response to this was to produce a lot of big, heavy, gas-guzzling SUVs, motor homes and Hummers.

If, during that time, anyone came up with a good idea on how to improve efficiency very much, the oil companies must have bought all the rights and stored them in the same warehouse with the Lost Ark of the Covenant.

For me, gas prices have gone up from $0.25 to $3.50, 14 times. Is there a word for that?

The current level of the stock market is a sign of inflation. The high prices of everyday necessities are a sign of inflation. Inflation is a sign of bad management and an inflated money supply, NOT the natural order of things.

It has been said that the economy of the Roman Empire was a "plunder economy", based on looting existing resources rather than producing anything new. Does this sound at all familiar?

Just wait.

Sue

"...Is there a word for that?..."

Yes there is, and if I said it, I would be deleted, and have to wash my mouth out with soap...

The CHP recently responded to an early morning 'collision' on the Ronald Reagan Freeway. Officers on scene found a large truck and SUV on fire with both drivers DOA. There were no witnesses, in fact the freeway was virtually free of traffic at the early hour. My local CHiP friend can only speculate it was a case of road rage between two very large vehicles going in excess of 90 MPh when they collided.Ironically, one vehicle sported a yellow ribbon 'Support our troops.' Now, it seems to me if you want to reduce your gas bill, dependence on foriegn, and often hostile oil producers any patriotic american with half a brain would try soomething VERY RADICAL, like slow down.Every vehicle, regardless of design has to essentially push air out of the way to move. You increase your speed and you increase air resistance and need more power exponentially over 65 MPH at a rapidly diminished fuel economy.

Actually, the high gas prices in the seventies did spark a wave of R&D. Several high efficiency experimental designs were developed because of the price of gas. My dad was able a 4x4 Ford truck in 1974 for about 60% of the sticker price because car manufacturers and lots couldn't shift large, inefficient vehicles (He was going to Alaska and thought he needed that type of vehicle, his next car was a SAAB sedan. We all learn as we grow). However, there wasn't really a gas shortage in the 1970's, there was a monopoly on oil production. OPEC tightened down the valves and gas prices sky rocketed. Right after that though, in the eighties the price of gas dropped to extremely low prices. Partly as a result of increased production from OPEC and partly a result of increased exploration. It wasn't too long after that that prices dropped almost to ten dollars a barrel. The American public (which has been through this sort of boom bust cycle in the oil industry several times) blew off the warnings of potential problems and went back to buying big cars and houses tens of miles from where they work. On another variable in the equation, food prices are artificially low because of the way US farm policy and support shifted in the seventies. The cost of food is so far hidden that the average consumer doesn't realize how expensive their food actually is in terms of subsidies and collateral damage. The price corn is sold at is typically about a dollar less then the cost of production, with the difference being made up in the form of government subsidies. The result is that people have become used to exceptional levels of energy and food plenty and normalcy when it returns is going to burn.

Our new diesel hog truck has a gizmo that tells what your fuel mileage is at any given moment, apparently based on the current fuel flow. The difference between 55 mph and 75 mph (and before you jump on me, that is the max on interstates in AZ) is amazing. Takes a little longer to get from here to there, but at current diesel prices we feel that it is worth it. Besides, less stress, more time to enjoy the desert views, etc etc etc...

Well, I guess I ain't following you down the road then. I can only imagine what it'd be like driving from Yuma to Phoenix behind a truck full of hogs, in that heat. The smell would be so thick you could probably taste it.

I think we need questions about driving speed and fuel consumption on the written test to get a driver's license so we make sure that people really understand how speed affects their fuel consumption.

Just did some quick calculations. Speeding up from 55 to 75 mph is a 35% increase in speed. But it's an 85% increase in air resistance! A lot of people routinely drive 80 mph on the freeway. Compared to 55 mph, that's 110% more air resistance--more than double the resistance that your engine has to push through the air.

Maybe we should outlaw windshields so everyone can feel for themselves how much wind resistance they're trying to overcome when they stomp on the gas pedal.

It's easy to forget how much of a difference speed can make when you're on the highway being overtaken by everybody doing 30 over the limit. Everytime I drive through a national park and the speeds are 70km/h to 90km/h max while the highway around can be 100km/h to 110km/h I'm reminded how good my Jeep can be on gas when you set the cruise at 70km/h and go for a few hours.

Using cruise helps a ton as well. Many people are pedal pumpers and maintain speed by continuously speeding up and coasting...very hard on gas.

At the projected price(by this summer) it will cost me 210 bucks per fill up. At once a week this is 840 bucks a month(not including the wifes Nitro)

I hate to pay that much, But I will be cold and dead before I trade in my Ram. The thought of me driving anything besides a truck is blasphemy. I will simply have to cut corners somewhere else. Thats life

Maybe I will stop buying so many guns.........

As speeds increase, so does wind resistance. Rolling resistance is, IIRC, pretty constant for all speeds. However, we can also get better mileage in hgiher gears. So, generally, the best mileage should be when you are in the tallest gear your vehicle has, fifth gear when you have a five speed transmission for example, and are travelling at about the slowest speed at which the engine seems to be comfortable, not lugging it.

The other thing that sves mileage when driving, not using the pedal that purposefully slows the car down. brakes are bad for gas mileage, although use of them may be good for your health and the body of your car.

Well, what about a decent Harley or BMW bike once in a while?

Oh, please, please don't infect this forum with this spam.

First of all, the gas you buy in your car comes from oil sold in the the commodities market. There's not a hose labeled "Exxon Oil" that you can trace back to the wellhead, it's all dumped into the same massive tank farms. Drilling & Extrication is not refining is not distribution is not delivery is not retail.

The point is that if you stop buying at the retail channel from ExxonMobile, well then Exxon sells crude to Citgo and Shell.

There's ample speculation in fuel markets, that's a factor too - as long as there's someone to contract West Texas sweet at $112/bbl and there's someone willing to enter into that contract, you'll see gas prices where they are. Spreads and such in that market are all just people playing financial games to rake in the bucks.

The declining value of the dollar is a factor. You want to see expensive gas? If they drop the dollar and price oil in Euros, and then you'll see some SERIOUS price bumps as there is currency arbitrage in effect.

Finally, it's basic economics as the lowest level; if you don't stop buying at $3.50, then they price it at $3.75. If you don't stop buying at $3.75, they price it at $4.00. The market will bear what the market will bear, and until we see double-digit reductions in consumption, there's absolutely no reason for the retail price to drop. The vendor is largely irrelevant, the price of gas is the price of gas, and the market pays what it will.

If you've ever spent much time outside the USA, we've had cheap gas for decades. Gas in the UK is about $8.00 a gallon. Really. Whining about how "expensive" it is isn't going to drop prices.

"...outlaw windshields so everyone can feel for themselves how much wind resistance..."

We'd all look like the AFLAC duck, jowls flapping in the wind!!!

"Pigpen, you wanna back off a few miles, them hogs are gettin' intense up here."

Or something like that, CW McCall, Convoy...

I just remembered, I inherited some Chevron stock from my dad, so everyone please buy Chevron/Texaco, it will make me rich in no time at all...

Forcing people to slow down would probably seriously lower highway accident rates. I think that as cars get safer, people drive faster and more erratically thus accidents rates are about the same, by making cars feel less safe it would force people to drive safer.

Couple of ideas to help increase gas mileage. The first one works for any vehicle. The second one will probably only work for newer vehicles if at all. It's worth trying if you've got fuel injection. I'm managing to get about 120% of EPA mileage with them.

Anticipate stop lights/signs, etc. Let the vehicle coast to a stop as much as possible. The brake pedal cost gas & maintenance.

Turn off the engine instead of idling for any length of time.

Convoy was one of the 45s in our meager collection of vinyl growing up. We listened to that maybe a thousand times. I don't know why, as none of our crowd was particularly smitten with the concept of overland frieght services back then. I think we got it cuz dad said it was acceptable for us to listen to, go figure that one...

10-4...

There's also a very large field mapped out in northern michigan, that's a Shell Oil secret (oops!!). There are many such discoveries already made and in waiting.

The strategic plan is to use everybody else's oil first ad then start sucking up our reserves. That is from lessons learned from the long supply lines of WWII.

That supply line lesson is why the Inerstate Highway System has been built.

Shell Oil, that's a Dutch company, right? No offense to our Forum memmbers.

Just because it is in the U.S. doesn't mean it is ours.

Also, as was previously stated; oil is an international commodity. Unless the Government nationalizes the American oil industry (gosh, I hope not!!!) then we will be at the whim of the "what the market will bear" part of the equation.

Either way, it is giong to be an expensive move for me when I have to drive a moving truck from Oklahoma to Upstate New York this summer. GGGRRRR!

"Gas in the UK is about $8.00 a gallon."

Only $2.80 of that is actually the cost of gas, the rest is taxes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25tue1.html

Sue

That will make my little bitty bit of Chevron stock worth jillions! I love it!!!

Even if that were to become reality, the sad fact is that gas will likely be 1) more expensive than it is today (even adjusted for inflation) and 2) it won't change a thing for the average taxpayer. If anything, oil companies will receive huge subsidies to increase refining capacity. Sad but true. Now if you're a stockholder on the other hand...........

I will keep using my pickup and burning up 25 gallons twice a month, while I wait for the Mr. Fusion system and the comeback of the De Lorean.

Ah, the interminable wait for the perfection of the Flux Capacitor.

how does one know which station sell Exxon or Mobil gas? Canada has petro Canada. Does Petro Canada get gas from Exxon or Mobil?

Short answer: Yes
Explanation of short answer: Here (kudos to Scott Adams/Dilbert)

-Blast

I don’t think so, there is a lot of oil still in the ground all around the earth. Siberia has been an unutilized area because of the harsh weather conditions. With newer technology it will become a place that will be able to supply a wide range of resources, including oil.

I honestly think oil will be our main fuel for at least the next 100-years.
It’s not enough to just come up with a replacement fuel for autos, you have to make it less expensive then the oil, that takes a lot of time to do as all new things cost a lot at first. You also have to have an infrastructure to support it. This also will take a long time. Oil has this right now (a gas station on about every corner in America) it will cost untold billions to get this infrastructure set up with any new energy.

And the most important consumers have to want it and companies have to be able to make a profit with it. I don’t care how much government tries to force it down out throats, it’s not going to work longterm without free market policies in effect.

Don’t hold your breath expecting oil to go away anytime soon, probably not in any of our lifetimes.

I know, this is an old post but,

Today I got a BIG surprise when I filled-up the work truck at $1.26/litre for regular unleaded gas! That works out to $4.77/US Gal or $5.67/Imperial Gal.

It was over $130.00 to fill-up the truck, that hurts.

Mike

Hi IzzyJG99




Yesterday, for the day, I had a drive in a Fiat Panda and was quite amazed at its abilities considering the size of the vehicle and how cheap it was. It was quite a fun car to drive around town. I was also suprised on how roomy internally the car was also. The Fiat Panda 1.2 ltr petrol engine gives a combined 50mpg.


Fiat Panda.

I even ended up in the local Fiat showroom and the little Fiat 500 looked pretty interesting as well.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/Reviews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5468573



The 1.3 ltr Diesel engine gives a combined 67 mpg and the more sporty 1.4 ltr petrol model giving a combined 45 mpg.

For a second, I was wondering, "Is that in Canadian or US dollars?" Oh wait...it doesn't matter anymore... As an American, that hurts, too.

I wish Fiat had a presence in the U.S. or any carmaker that had those tiny diesels. I'd get one. If I need to travel on vacation or a day trip with more than one person I'll either fly or rent big and suffer short-term.

Your point? When I drive in the UK, I pay $8.00 a gallon, that's my out of pocket. That's all the matters.

that's Canadian dollar.