Whipping It Out In Public!

So today is Valentines Day, and my turn to take our 10 year old daughter to dance class.

I am standing in the lobby of the dance studio with about 10 other parents; one mother is having difficulty unwrapping a heart-shaped chocolate treat, while the child at her feet is raising a big fuss because she wants it "NOW".

I casually ask the petite woman "would you like to use my knife to help open that"; she replies, "that would be great, I got the bow off, but not the plastic".

I reach under my coat, draw my Leatherman TTi from the belt pouch and with my thumb snap open the main blade like I have done hundreds of times before. Everything went silent in the room as all the other people stopped talking and looked toward the sound, I then wished I had reached for my tiny Gerber STL 2.0 or kept my mouth shut.

I passed the woman my open Leatherman and it dwarfed her small hand; I could anticipate what was coming next so I said "be careful, that blade is really sharp, would you like me to do it for you", (the room was still quiet). Luckly the lady managed to cut the tie on the wrapper and handed me back my multi-tool (blade first), I tucked it away quickly.

The lesson I learned tonight is that many people do not have the same comfort level around edged tools as those who EDC them and that my wife should take the girls to dance class from now on!

Mike

They probably thought it was switchblade or something. Everyone knows that they equal BAD...

If they thought the Leatherman was a "switchblade" they would have called the Cops if I had of used the "Speed Safe" Kershaw Leek clipped to my left pocket. SNAP!

Mike

SwampDonkey

Nice title. Love it.

Would the scissors have been the better option? Always remember, "Nice guys finish last."

It may be a cliché but sometimes it’s true.

Nice to none,

Blitz

Anytime I loan a knife I worry more about the knife getting hurt than the person wielding it...does that make me a bad person?

LOL I have the same thought on loaning out a knife, if the person gets cut, they will heal, the knife stays broke if they screw it up, or I have to spend time redressing the blade.

In fact I don’t loan out my good knife, I have a beat-around knife (a small locking blade Buck) that I let people use. I had a small Kershaw I let others use, but one time it was at a party and I did not get it back. Lots going at the party and it slipped my mind to get it back, and the guy using it never gave it back.

Hi Blitz,

I never even thought of the scissors until just now when you mentioned them! I carried a Leathernam original PST for about 10 years (no scissors) and recently started carrying the TTi, I guess I just forgot about them, DUH.

Mike

That's why I carry my Leatherman Squirt with a Photon Freedom hooked to the key ring. It rarely draws attention in my school. I keep my ChargeTi in the briefcase or in my car because the one time I pulled it out, most of my students (all teenage girls) screamed in terror.

The funniest part of the story is that the girls who ride horses, and the handful who go backpacking/camping, came up and wanted to check the ChargeTi. They carry pocket knives during their competitions in case a horse gets tangled up in their bridles and begins to choke. Most of them prefer swiss army knives and their parents made certain that each girl knew how to use and care for their knives. Most of them also referred to the Squirt as a "sissy little toy."

Hope still exists for the next generation

IMHO some of this comes from the was the modern society has changed in the last 50 years. Used to be just about every boy got a pocket knife when he was just old enough to accept a little responsibility without getting himself killed.

Somewhere between eight and ten years-old the kid got a pocket knife for birthday or Christmas. It was something of a right of passage. Nearly every adult male, and not a few females, had a knife in their pocket. Many had a Boyscout knife or SAK and the business suit guys, worried about the suit hanging right, had a tiny pen knife.

Knives were practical tools and used nearly every day for small jobs. Knives were symbolic of getting things done, and being prepared and, a mark of having the competence to do it without slicing a vein.

This changed. Some of it may have to do with packaging. Back in the 50s most men had their shirts done at a laundry. These would come back wrapped in paper and tied with string. Meat and produce were often package the same way. Lots of every-day items were similarly packaged. You might have to spend several minutes untying these packages but with a small knife you simply cut the string.

Packaging has changed. No longer do most people pick their cuts of meat and watch as the butcher wraps them. Everything has gone to plastic shrunk on with a machine.

There is also the rise in liability and non-acceptance of the small injuries that used to be common with kids. Used to be Cub Scouts had knives. Nobody would dream of it being any other way. I was shocked the first time I heard about Boy Scouts having to get a badge before they could carry a pocket knife.

Oh well, no going back. And it is easy to overlook the fact that the 'good old days' weren't all that good. Most men stopped carrying knives but there are now blacks in Boy scouts and the voting booths, and women aren't relegated to secondary status. Fair enough trade in my book seeing as that I still carry a Leatherman.

It is still funny too see people struggle to get a CD out of it's plastic wrap. Or open many of the tri-laminate wrapped foods. Maybe pen knives could come back. Then again last I went into the courthouse they had stopped storing knives if you had one on you. I would have had had to have walked all the way back to my truck to stow my Leatherman if I hadn't noticed a friend lounging around out front. He was kind enough to hold the knife as I did my business in the courthouse.

"Whipping it out" it depends on the situation. Sometimes a quick grab and flick and then a just as fast disappearing act folding it against the leg and back in it's sheath has the desired effect. One time I saw a young buck giving a woman's purse, hanging from a chair, a long look. The tiny click of the knife locking open before I sliced an article out of the newspaper had an effect. I will never know for sure what that effect was but when he heard that tiny click he looked back and our eyes met. Might have meant nothing. Or it might have registered that he was being observed and that there was a guy who cared with a knife behind him. He straightened up visibly and a few minuted later she left taking her purse with her.

If I'm in a meeting with the sorts of people who might be startled by the sudden appearance of a sharp knife I try to make sure to announce what I'm doing ahead of time. I have sometimes asked something along the lines of: 'The meat is tough today, would anyone mind if I used a sharp knife?'.

Better to give them some warning and eliminate any idea that I'm just randomly fondling a knife under the table.

I'm with BoBS in that I do not loan out a good knife. No way. The last knife I loaned out was a serated balde that cost me less than $3 at Walmart.

Still, I got looks for having one so readily available. Not too many of them, because those present knew me enough that they were not too surprised.

Society has changed, unfortunately. And fewer people respect the knives they do have. The boning knife in my kitchen could do more damage than most of the knives I carry. But no one seems to be in fear of my owning one, even in NYC, where I bought it.

As far as the title of this thread, well, there was the one time I put on a free show . . . .

My Dad always said "A Gentleman always has a pocket knife"

When HE went to school, you were expected to carry a pen knife - they actually still taught you to sharpen a quill!! (1920s in NYC!)

I keep a Vic Classic in my change purse for public viewing -- pen knife blade, scissors and it looks innocent. It's fairly acceptable, much more so that the RSK Mk 1 I whipped out once to open a carton while in line at the grocery store. Lady behind me didn't say a thing, but she did switch lines.

Yup, sure is a sad state of affairs these days. I personally don't mind whipping it out in public, but then I gotta deal with the misses hissing "put that away" in my ear. Its why I make sure I carry my swisschamp all the time now. People are a lot less spooked by the (somewhat) familar red handle SAK. So I just take the few extra seconds to remove from the pouch and just leave the buck/strider clipped to my pocket. Keep the "average" joe/jane from having a heart attack, keeps my wife from having a hissy fit, makes my life a little less complicated.

-Bill Liptak

Likewise, I think this has much to do with it. These days (here in the U.S.) we're seeing increasingly frequent acts of violence. Just this past week: two college campuses and the regrettable incident with the psychologist. It seems to me the general public has two stages of "alertness" to their surroundings: completely oblivious, or hyper-alert, with no in between. It's the latter that I think makes many folks edgy when they see displayed what they perceive to be a weapon of some sort.

Recently, I had just returned from an outing, and still had my black-scaled SAK OHT in my pocket. A box with the super-tough strapping tape needed to be opened, so I was going to use the OHT. A couple of folks visibly shrunk back when I retrieved it from my pocket, thanks I suppose to its slightly larger size and the unfamiliar (vs. the trademark red) color. Someone spotted the SAK red/white cross logo, and says, "Oh, is that a Swiss Army knife?" — then all was well.

Edit: Bill ... your post while I was typing — echoes some of what I said regarding the SAK.

Hi Bill and Others,

I agree with you that the Swiss Army Knife is the best "low profile in public" knife and I usually carry a Vic Farmer when I am in a suit/tie. The problem is that I have not been able to find a red coloured one in Canada, the silver Alox Farmer is not as easily identified as a SAK and therefore still draws some unwanted attention.

Mike

Yep, my little classic is the first thing that comes out for the wife or female co-workers. I reserve the Wave for myself and those I know can handle it. The wife is a dedicated Klutz when it comes to knives, and I don't want her cutting on anything more than what the lil classic can handle. That's also why I do all the butchering work at home too. I let her cut bread and occasionally smaller veggies, but I do the winter squash and melons.

Sometimes I get these pitiful, almost sobbing looks from guys when I have to break out the lil classic for these women.

Other times, I get looks of admiration and gratitude from my buddies when the daughters hand me one of their full size leathermans and tell me to be careful cuz they just sharpened them.

"...when the daughters hand me one of their full size leathermans and tell me to be careful cuz they just sharpened them."

Love that!

Sue

This thread got me thinking (a dangerous thing at times) and I replaced the Vic Pioneer (silver alox) that was in my Mission Wallet with a Vic Spartan (red plastic). I do believe that will be my go-to knife in public -- it's just a Swiss Army Knife.

In the process I got a small blade, tweezers, toothpick and corkscrew; I saved all of 10 grams. I don't get the strength of the aluminum sides, but in that knife it isn't critical. The Pioneer goes to the bullpen while I think about where it would be most useful to be stashed.

In my current work environment, I am apparently the only person in an office of about 60 carrying a multitool regularly (original model Wave). I am the go to guy when a screwdriver or pliers is needed and that is just fine with me. Although the Leatherman is big and bulky, it doesn't seem to be threatening at all. It must be the pliers - it just doesn't look like something Freddy Kruger would carry.

I just can;t help myself. I'd have been tempted to unsheath a full-size Canadian Camp knife just to still their already fluttering hearts. Like my Dad used to say "You want something to cry about?"

"Here nice lady. Let's get that plastic wrap off there in record time. There's no sense pussyfooting around with some wrapping."

one of the things i like about canoeing is that you can walk
around Ely--the town at the the end of the road in Minnesota--
with a big sheath knife on and no one blinks an eye...just
another tripper back in town from the woods--

Try it sometime with a Spyderco Endura. It's big, opens fast and looks nasty with thr black handle and serated blade. Talk about freeking those around you.

Buy then again I could care less what others think.

I like the idea of a lower profile with 'just a swiss army knife' on my keys especially as I wear a suit for work unfortunately and the UK is not 'knife friendly' to begin with.

Having reviewed the Victorinox range (as an aside it seems that they offer far more products in to North American market than their native European market if the websites are to believed) I like the look of the Classic SD with Whistle in Red.

This should sit innocuously enough on my keychain; probably raising less attention than my Res-Q-Me tool in fact and has the benefit of adding a Whistle too.

So two questions before I click 'Order Now'; has anyone seen one of these, is it pealess and has anyone heard one of these, I am not expecting a replacement for my Fox40 but it needs to be better than a toy?

Hi OIMO,

I have never handled a Vic Classic with a whistle, but Doug Ritter has here http://www.equipped.org/pro_pocket_kit.htm while testing the Pocket Pro Survival Kit (note: there is a close-up photo also).

Good idea, this knife would be a useful addition to my key chain, more multi-purpose than my Fox 40.

If you get one please give it a try and report how it sounds.

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link; I did a quick google before but didn't notice Doug's page. He seems to think it is pretty good so I will order it and report back here in due course.

OIMO

I'm surprised no one said it yet...

"That's not a knife - THIS IS A KNIFE!!"

I generally start out with my SAK because it is so easily recognized. Only if I am with people that I know do I use my Leatherman.

*chuckles* at a memory..
My boss and i were at a worksite. Someone had put scotchtape on a stop tab along with a note.. We couldn't get it off with fingers due to nietgher of us having fingernails. I walk over to my backpack and pull out my lil swiss army penknife.. we get the tape off.. and I put it back into my backpack. Later on he needs a knife for something else i cannot find my little one. So I pull out my generic swiss army knife.. My boss asks what else do I carry.

i just carry a SAK Huntsman, it is big enough for most jobs, but doesn't look aggresive at all. I carry it both to work and to school. I could in fact easily carry something bigger at work, but i simply don't need it. Plenty of other guys walking around with folders and multitools on there belts here. (fire station)

If it is a legal size blade, who give a #@*! what anyone else thinks. I EDC and use my Leatherman Charge in public if a legitimate need arises.

Like I said, I don't.....but the Misses doesn't like freaking the average person out. Its easier to use a smaller knife, keep the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. calm and the Misses happy......
On a side note I still remember "losing" a cold steel voyager, 5" blade at Universal Studios Orlando.... The look at lost and found from the clerk was great I still remember describing it. When I got to the "5 inch blade" part he stopped me cold, walked to the back and returned my knife to me. His words "what the hell you need with such a large knife in here for? Hunting?" I just replied "nope, but if I wanted to its always nice to know I could"

I love being in the military where the reaction is far and away "Cool, what are you carrying" rather then "EEK! What are you carrying".

Out in public though, I carry SAK either a Tinker or Bantam and a smaller fix blade. The SAK has got to be the ultimate in fluffy feel good knives, but I just can't resist the comfort of a fix blade on my belt.

Well, you still gots to be careful. There are brandishing and affray laws on the books that make it unlawful to use just about anything short of a limp noodle to intimidate others. The rotten part is who defines the intimidation, and when someone who doesn't think the way you do goes whining to the nearest LEO that you "threatened" them with your knife by opening it and brandishing it in public, well, you can get the idea how this goes down. You might not get arrested, the LEO might not take the knife from you, but you will at least have to present him with it, deal with the hassle, do some explaining, and likely get a warning that marks you in his memory the next time he might see you. I know, it ain't right, but this is the reality of the world we live in, and the sad fact is those who don't want to control more and more those that do (fill in the blank). Such thinking is what has led us to these wonderful zero tolerance policies that our kids are stuck dealing with.

Legal length or not, you just can't walk around with an open knife of any size in your hand these days and not expect to have problems. I don't care about getting "the look", but I don't like it when the LEO has to come talk to me about it, and I don't really think they appreciate it much either.

Good point on the reaction from the LEOs.

By law and policy if someone says something about you having a knife and being worried, made uncomfortable or startled by it they have to stop what they are doing and talk to you to determine what happened and what your intentions are. They are unlikely to appreciate the waste of time that goes with most 'armed man' calls.

Point being that it pays to take others feelings and thoughts into account before too casually 'whipping it out'. Some people may be enthusiastic about seeing your knife. Others shocked and made uncomfortable. A lot of the reaction depends on how you couch it.

With a person easily worried and startled you might simply suggest that because you have to use some tools they might want to step back so they won't get hurt as you work. Politeness and courtesy are free and they pay big dividends.

Years ago a guy robbed a pair of old ladies. After the police caught him the ladies declined to press charges because he had been so polite. Even a thief can benefit from the touch of class lent by being polite and courteous.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. Need to be careful. But we cannot stop carrying and using.

If you start being afraid to carry or use it for an honorable reason, because of the kind of reaction you might get, then the person carrying it, you on the rare occasion, becomes even more unusual. And it becomes even easier to look at such a person as someone just out there to intimidate or threaten the public. When we start hiding our knives all the time, we stop being able to carry them.

First your ability to carry one thing goes, then you ability to carry something else goes too. Soon enough, picking up a stick could be looked at as criminal.

Heck, my wife was is surprised sometimes at me carrying what I do carry. Then I point out the larger knives in the kitchen.

Recently I've heard that police here are confiscating assisted opening knives like my Kershaw...good thing I can turn it off.

I've even heard of people having their knives confiscated then going back to where they bought it and demanding their money back LOL.

Has this happened to you? Has this happened to anyone reading this thread? Have any LEO's in the group had to have this conversation with someone who it turns out was using lawful pocket knife for a legit reason and just accidentally intimidated someone to a point where they called the police?

Granted. Discretion is never a bad thing when it comes to using knives.

The "click" of a Kershaw tends to draw stares. And not the admiring or inquisitive kind. The phrase 'Dumbing down' comes to mind. I'm referring to the tool of course.

Does anyone know the rules of a 13 year old like me carrieng my assisted opening SOG2?

I guess it would depend on the jurisdiction where you live? I sure would not take it to school.

Mike

I think this is an excellent observation - the point being that we, in an effort to please others (by not "scaring" them, in this case), actually precipitate the prohibition long before a law is passed that prohibits by law what was formerly legal.

Yes, unfortunately I did have to talk with a New York cop after using an SAK on the subway to trim a fingernail. I was standing on the platform minding my own business and one of the locals asks me if I have a knife with me because he got a complaint. We talked for a while, I showed him my little classic, he asked me not to have it out at the subway any more and I said okay. His attitude indicated he was not real interested with having to do this (I found that quite a few NYC LEOs are not pleased to do much of anything these days beyond their usual routine). After that, I didn't display any knife while going through the subway system, although I did use it occasionally on the NJ Metro commuter train.

Yep, that is about the size of it. I continue to be a strong advocate of keeping yourself armed/equipped as appropriate. I think it is a good idea that we be discreet when we do this, and not just so we don't scare the sheep, but also because it pays not to advertise that we have something someone else may want.

My experience has been that it depends on where you find yourself as to how open you want to be about your equipment. You have to be mindful of whose eyes are watching you, both the sheep and the wolves. In a more secure, friendly environment I have no problem breaking out the gear to do what I need, assist others, or sometimes even to show and tell, but not just anywhere.

Somebody actually dropped a dime on your Vic Classic? Incredible. My policy of staying clear of NYC is now set in concrete.

I guess it can happen anywhere. NYC subways are probably more sensitive to that sorta thing than others, image and all that. They just seem to have a low tolerance for perceived threats. Maybe whoever ratted me out thought they were doing me a favor, I dunno.

There was another time long ago when I was carrying a concealed firearm (legally) and accidently flashed it while using a latrine. That got me kicked out of the establishment, despite it being legal for me to carry at that location, just cuz the patron who saw it felt I shouldn't be there armed, and mgmt didn't want a situation or reputation I guess. I didn't feel the need to stay, so my friends and I left and never went back.

Ben: Thanks for sharing the details. I swore off mass transit long ago. But I will keep your advice in mind if I ever use mass-transit anything again.

Russ: I am with you on this one.

Let's see, man carrying gun, leaves without using weapon, when asked to do so. Seems like you were a real threat to me, NOT.

I've been asked why I feel the need to have a weapon when someone has seen my multi-tool or SAK. Usually my response is to say because it's a tool not a weapon. Of course, sometimes I add in "and because my shotgun is too difficult to carry with me all the time."

Agree with Benjamin that some discretion is needed, and I do not break out my knives often in the subway. But I do in NYC, especially around people who know me and might be shocked by it. Sometimes, it's good to make the point that these things are tools, just like a car, and are normally not harmful when used responsibly. So, yes, I do look for chances at time for an excuse to use a knife.

There are millions of guns in North America, very few of them will harm anything living, nevermind a person, today. There are millions more knives in North America, most of the harm they do to people today will be self-inflicted and in someone's kitchen.

Maybe they kicked benjammin out because he didn't wash his hands?

You've read my earlier posts about using public restrooms eh? There's a good reason why I don't, but I still practice good hygiene.

Great topic. This sort of thing happens to me all the time. My family and friends are used to it, no big deal. I come from generations of pioneers and practical people; my father, grandfather, and great-grandfather carried a sharp tool always, and I take it as a badge of honour to do the same. A tool, mind you, not a weapon. Still, in urban and professional situations, such items can be misunderstood. I'm not responsible for reforming everyone's ill-considered attitudes (thank heaven). Discretion is the way to go.

A few things I have observed:

- the sharp "snick" of a locking blade makes some people goofy; dampen the sound as you open it

- if you hand somebody a knife, let them open the blade; somehow that ritual makes things less awkward

- small, blackened blades can be opened and used very discreetly

- if you have a full-sized SWAK, use the mini blade

- anything small on a keychain is generally okay; that's where my Vic Classic lives; sometimes I switch it for an ultra-mini Gerber

- nobody freaks out over scissors unless you make a big show of it; cheap, sharp, disposable scissors are best for briefcase and office; folding scissors like the Leathermans are mostly okay too

- finally, there's a body language aspect that I can't quite figure out; the way you present the tool for use is apparently more important than the tool itself; weird but true

I've always felt that a person who carries a knife openly is usually much less dangerous than the person who hides it. But I think Dan's comments are spot on. Part of the responsibility of carrying a knife is about social interaction. Like it or not, our socio-political environments often make carrying a knife somewhat difficult, especially when traveling.

If you are courteous, not flashy, and generally don't look like a grizzled crazy, you're doing everyone who carries a knife a favor by making it appear more socially acceptable. Any time I use one in public, I'm careful to take in my surroundings and keep it calm and cool. I hope everyone else does the same.

Now, even if I, a daily knife carrier (ok - 3-4 knives at any time) see someone at McDonald's pull out a 5" blade, I'm going to take notice and keep an eye on them. There are different knives for different places and it seems that it's sort of obvious to most, but perhaps not all.

It depends on how many Zombies are around. (I hate Zombies.)

Seriously though I don't display anything unless I have to. In such a case, it is usually in the slowest most awkward way I can.

Personally I believe it's a need to know basis.

I'm not gonna wip anything out unless requested.

Blitz

i look a little crazed grizzly does that count????? I have no problem using any of my (6 or so) EDC knives at any time.

well guys, i personally carry either the old SOGwinder, or the full size tanto KA-Bar.

Carying the latter would get you some sideways looks and maybe a talking to by the local boys in blue around here even though it's not illegal.

It only takes one time to restructure that view. Hopefully it goes swimmingly.

OK, my new SAK classic with integrated Whistle arrived a few days ago. However I thought I would wait until I had some experience with it before posting.

Overall, as Doug says, it is a pretty good bit of kit. It weighs next to nothing and happily sits next to a regular door key lengthwise. The one red scale is oversized to accomodate the whistle, which is reasonable loud. Not Fox 40 level, but it is not even as large as the flat Micro version of the Fox 40 so it is pretty impressive. Overall I would recommend it, especially for people who cannot easily carry/conceal anything larger such as people that have to wear a business suit and also a first knife for kids, where the whistle is a great little addition.

It seems the Classic with Whistle is a North American model of SAK. I got mine from 7dayshop.com who I would recommend to any UK based readers as they are local and avoid the VAT by being based in the Channel Islands.

This kind of behavior pisses me off. A cop can't just "confiscate" your stuff (at least in the US). I seem to recall something written by a bunch of wig-wearing men, a few centuries back, writing that people can't be deprived of property without due process...

And you're going to stop them exactly HOW? They look at you and say "_I_ say it's a switchblade/gravity knife" (they go to flick it and touch te assist bump). Argue, you find yourself in cuffs, being arrested for carrying a switchblade, and them saying "Tell it to the judge and jury". I might win your case (that it's NOT a switchblade), but it's going to cost you, and there is a chance you'll lose too, and at least around here, a switchblade CAN get you the same amount of time as an unlicensed pistol (aka 3 years+)

Unless you are willing to escalate the issue and deal with all the hassles associated with such action, of which there will be plenty, yes they can. Like someone else said, what are you going to do about it? I gaurantee you arguing with a NYC cop about such a thing in public is only going to end up in a physical confrontation with you likely to get your head knuckled. You think zero tolerance is just at public schools, try taking your knife back from a uniformed cop at a subway stop in Manhattan. I gaurantee you a bad day then.

I don't like it anymore than the next guy, and I've already had my run in with them over my little SAK classic. Believe me, it is worth it just to let him have his way and walk down to the luggage store and pick up another for $20. Once he's made up his mind, you are not going to change it, but you might give him a good reason to take out his stress and frustration.

The principle ideal is a sound. Our rights ought not be infringed, but the reality is it just isn't worth the effort. It is the way things work now, and it is not going to accomodate our rights that way any more.

Don't use it unless you really need to, and be prepared to give it up to The Man unless things go all heck and it's every man for himself then.

If a cop is confiscating your knife and letting you go, let him have it, then consider getting some help to sue the city from a knife rights group.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Spouting off Constitutional Law to a cop will pretty much earn you a glazed over look. But you can bet I'd be in court raising a stink over it. And demanding some sort of ID that he took it.

I can well understand your convictions on the matter. I too feel that such treatment from LE is unfair and in violation of my rights to peacably enjoy my life while securing my own welfare without encroaching on others.

I long ago gave up demanding anything from a cop. I've come to understand that taking such a confrontational tone with them doesn't have the effect I want, nor does it do anything to resolve my issue. If he has a badge and a name, I will make a quiet note of both and should I really feel the need to pursue any issue after the fact, I will use that information to assert my claim to the proper channels at the right time. If it is something I really feel I can not afford to do without, such as an heirloom (in which case I am already likely mad at myself for taking such a risk with something of such value) then I will try to reconcile with the department and the officer under more hospitable conditions where discussion is more germaine. Most likely, I will simply drop the issue and not repeat the mistake again.

You can, if you so desire, fight the good fight, just for the principle of the whole thing. I don't have that kind of time or money, so if it's something I can readily replace for a whole lot less time and effort, I will choose discretion and leave the other part of valour for another more worthy fight.

Should you pursue a more confrontational position, even at a later time and under more diplomatic conditions, be advised that cops can have a long memory about things that make them unhappy. They also like to point out to other cops those who seem to make trouble for them. At some point, you may end up asking yourself if upsetting this guy was really worth the trouble you now find yourself in, however unwarranted such trouble may be. I personally don't like to be such a mark for those whom my welfare may depend on. Sicking the dogs on his department isn't going to win him or his buddies over as friends either. When the advocacy groups leave after the court case is resolved and you are left with your pocketknife and a sense of vindication, what do you suppose the cop's going to think the next time he sees you?

I'm not saying you should just roll over and take it. I merely suggest you think about how these sort of things can go in the long term. If you feel it is imperative to do the right thing, then go with your convictions, just be prepared for an outcome you may not have previously anticipated. Learn from my experiences if you can; they came at a high enough price.

Chances are, unless the cop really is crooked, following up later in a respectable manner may get you your knife back and preserve or promote a better relationship with a guy we are paying to get in harm's way anyways.

Just a thought. There is always another time when "after prying it from my cold dead fingers" will be the correct response.

From what I understand of it, if there's not a "release button" it's not a switchblade because it's not automatic. An automatic stores energy and instantly opens the knife after that energy is released. An assisted opener is just that, it uses leverage/gearing to make the opening easier and faster, but the user still has to apply force throughout the open. If your assisted opener is spring loaded or otherwise opens with an instant release, you may be treading on thin ice.

At the very least, I would ask the officer in a calm and professional manner "why" it's being confiscated, if for nothing else than future reference. You could even ask where it's posted so you know all of the rules.

If you are taking it into a prohibited area, ask if you can ship it to yourself or leave and drop it back in your car, etc. If it's a $20 knife, then yeah... maybe it's not worth the hassle. At the very least, ask what precinct you can go to to pick it up after his shift is over or where you can get it as it is YOUR property. If they have no such facility in place, I guess you start writing letters - after the fact. Of course, if you are willing to fight and stand up and put up with all the crap, you could fight this tooth and nail all through the courts. Just pick your battles well. :-)

At my local airport they give you the option of shipping back an item to yourself for $5 (the price has probably gone up) and I took advantage of it when I once forgot my LMWave was in my laptop bag. Totally worth it for such an item.

That's exactly what's happening here. The law is specific in saying that it can't be an automatic knife and defines one by indicating that it has a release button. With assisted openers, the effect is similar but there's no button...very grey. Local police don't seem to think so.

The best solution I've found so far is to just not put yourself in a situation where a LEO is going to ask to see in your pockets

I never really understood the desire for an assisted opener. I played with one once in a store. One of the Kershaws (a Chive?) Anyway, that thing went off with such a flourish that it startled/scared me. I said I wouldn't want one in my pocket where it could accidentally get pressed by a keyring and go off. The salesman said it had a safety lock on it. Which pretty much defeats the purpose of the high speed assist, if you have to first take off the safety. I've never had any circumstance where I couldn't manually flip open a Spyderco (or any other folder with a thumb stud/hole) fast enough.

I'm all for gun and knife rights, but honestly, I have to agree that these assisted opening things are only a small step away from a switchblade. They're probably handier than a switchblade - just as fast, but better made and more durable. I don't necessarily agree that switchblades need to be banned, but since they are, it's not that far-fetched for some people to consider assisted openers the same as switchblades.

Hey,

I have a Kershaw Leek "Speed-safe" knife and I like it, but I usually open it with the conventional thumb-stub in public, just to keep the shock factor down. It does really open with a quick and loud "snap" so it draws attention. I recently purchased the Leatherman TTi and have been carrying the Kershaw less. The kershaw also has a shiny silver pocket clip that tends to stand-out against my dark pants and draws unwanted attention. Kershaw Leek: http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=3

I have had problems with the Kershaw opening when I did not want it to. It has never opened in my pocket but I have dropped it and had it spring open. I did not like the extra action of removing the rear blade lock and sometimes it would slide on by itself, so I tightened it down in the off position.

When I first got the Leek folder I forgot to take it out of my left front pants pocket once and I ran it through the wash. The washing machine was no problem but the knife opened in the dryer and poked holes in a load of clothes; my DW was REALLY not impressed with me or my new fancy knife!

Mike

I have the full sized Kershaw Cyclone AND I have stubby thumbs...there's no way it would ever open one handed without the assist. I also have a Gerber EZ-Out (my former pocket knife). I'm not sure how they get off calling that a one handed opening knife but the Kershaw was a Godsend when I discovered it.

If the safety on the Leek you mention is the same as mine Mike, it's not a safety, it's a switch that allows you to turn the assist off...basically just disengages the torsion spring.

Also, you need to have the blade pretty far open before it 'assists' and the spring holds the blade closed when it's closed past the assist point. I've been carrying mine nearly every day since October and it's never felt anything but safe. The lugs aren't sharp and don't catch on stuff...same with the index trigger (my preferred method).

Hi ya Hacksaw,

My Kershaw Leek has a small sliding type button on the rear that blocks the tip of the blade from moving from the closed position; it is like a rifle safety button that locks the trigger and bolt. The Speedsafe system does help keep the blade in the closed position but a slight touch on the rear post and the blade ficks open quickly.

My past EDC knife was also a Gerber E-Z-Out, partly serrated blade (could we be brothers seperated at birth?), I must have larger hands because I can open it using the thumb-hole but I am really thinking of ordering a Ritter RSK Mk1 for EDC for the increased quality. My Birthday is coming soon, and I have been good lately, I think I deserve it; now I just have to convince the DW.

Mike

Tonight I was dining at a nice restaurant (Rafferty's in Knoxville, TN) and i ordered the prime rib. While they bring a knife (if you can call the full serrated bad handled piece of steel a knife) with my steak I much rather preferred to use my own as it cut much better and the serrated one tears the meat more than it cuts it. As far as I know no one noticed me cutting my steak with my RSK and everything was fine. I also made a point of opening it slowly and using it like any other tool. If you open a knife with a fluorish and make it attention getting all you are doing is asking for trouble.

You are, of course, right. But it falls under the "the nub of the blade is a button""No it's not, the courts have ruled it's not" "Tell it to the judge" (as he slips on the nice stainless steel jewelry on your wrists

I own one - I wish it wasn't an assisted opener, but for a 230V small knife, in a blade shape I wanted (spear point) it was my ONLY choice - if offered in a NON assisted opener, I would have bought that

I have a SOG Twitch II That I EDC. I love it. It is an AO. I especially love it when I'm hanging around, exhausted, needing to strip some wire or ream out a hole and using 2 hands will quickly lead to my death. My only complaint is the blade has about 1mm of play.

Whipping a knife out in public has never been a problem for me. If I have a real need to pull my knife out then I do. Maybe because The blade is under 3"? Maybe it's because I do it with authority! (LOL) Maybe I look trustworthy? Really if you are using it for a legit purpose folks do not pay it any mind. Anyway's that has been my experience around the DFW metroplex.


-JRJ

FWIW My DW and I flew to St. Louis last week and she forgot she had a Cabelas "mini-tool" and so they asked her to put it in her checked luggage or mail it home which is what she chose to do, $5.10 later it is in the "hands" of TSA headed home. I (we) thought anything under 3" was acceptable to carry on the plane guess not.

Mike

I had the same response from co-workers at work when I whip out my leatherman Ti tool. I want to use the screw driver to secure the laptop screws.

co-workers thought I am some hard core fanatic survivalist. They stared at me for few seconds.

Tis a sad indictment of the day and age in which we find ourselves, that good people willing to take responsibility for themselves and render aid to those in need should be first regarded as fanatics or extremists.

I'll paraphrase Teddy's advice some to fit the case: Walk softly, and carry a sharp knife.

I get those same looks, and frankly, I kind of revel in them.

I might even let them know I enjoy pulling the trigger on a firearm, which often gets me a look, from another New Yorker, like I just sprouted my fourth head.

I also them may preach a little about how a knife is a tool, that one should never be without, and in this day and age, if you are going to carry one thing with you all the time, besides your wallet keys and cell phone, a good multi-tool should be it.

My confession would be that I am only rarely willing to wear my multitool on my belt, as that is often asking for attention.

And the only thing I have ever been able to bring on a plane, in the past five years, that is anything like a knife is a P-51 can opener, which recently has made in through the metal detectors in at least one courthouse and two airports.

My small first aid kit I carry has a pari of bandage scissors that have a 1inch blade and total length of 4 inches, it pass fine. I also have a knockoff P-51 with a spoon on it that is in the first aid kit as well they may look but I get on the plane with all my stuff. Thouhg my wife was depresssed because they took here suntan lotion, guess I didn't pay attention to her packing.
Cheers

My daughter went to college last year and the best thing she said she had was a Mora knive and a rolle of duct tape. She has a PSK she carries in here Camelback and it is alway handy when she goes hiking or snowboarding. She also has a old Gerber she carries in her purse, just has to remember to pack it in check baggage.
cheers

This is why I treat my Al Mar Sere the same way I do my CC. Nobody sees it unless it's a real emergency.

I have a Kershaw Scallion that is (was) assisted opening. I don't need the extra speed or any hassles from LEOs about it being a switchblade so I just took out the spring and removed the safety. Problem solved.

Wow, I just had a weird feeling today. I was in the office talking to our Head of Security (an ex-RCMP cop) discussing panic alarms in some our buildings. I showed him a panic alarm button that gets attached to a Customer Service workstation and he wanted to open it up and take the battery out. He tried with his letter opener but didn't work. Without hesitation, I took out my Spyderco and clicked it open! It took me a couple of seconds to open the case (but I really don't like using the knife as a pry!)

The guy never even flinched. It wasn't until I was putting the knife back on my pants that I realized that if there was anybody in the company to not "flick" my knife in front of, the Head of Security would be it. But he didn't give it a second thought - thankfully for me, there are other people in this world besides me who think carrying a pocket knife is just a regular thing.

However, I'm not a "total doughnut head" - I am going on a tour of a newly renovated and occupied Correctional Centre (min. security) next week. The first thing I thought of was that I should probably empty my pockets of all my goodies before going on the tour, lest any of the items become "lost"!

The head of security probably knows a simple pocket knife isn't a threat. I've known a lot of people who needed a screwdriver, scissors, etc that I've used my leatherman for and they have never cared or probably didn't even know it had a knife.

Years ago I was a simple pc repair guy and had to enter a correntional facility to fix the library pc. I emptied my pockets and the gaurd said you can't take that in, take it back to your car. So I picked up my pocket knife to take it back out and he said no, you can take that, you can't take the cell phone.

i opened a box of printer paper once at the school i work for, and a student noticed my knife and said, "I didn't know you IT guys were armed." To me, a knife is a tool first... i've never been in a situation where i've needed a knife as a weapon (unless you count filleting fish?)