30% chance the U.S. will be hit with a nuke .

This subject was brought up during the Dem. debates . They said that some experts believe that there is a 30% or better chance that the U.S. will be hit by a terrorist nuke device .
What are you doing to prepare for this ? Other than just buying some of those pills that protect your thyroid [ can't remember the name of the pills ] or building some kind of bomb shelter , if you can [ I rent so building a shelter is not an option ] . I can't think of anything I can do besides continue with my usuall preps - stocking food , water , meds and some extra ammo .
I guess there are some things that you can't prepare for .

... "30% or better chance" ...

Over what time period?

... "30% or better chance" ... in the next 24 hours is pretty scary.

... "30% or better chance" ... between now and the end of time is somewhat less than gripping.

Especially considering that a 'dirty' bomb, a radiation dispersal device that makes a mess, is by far the more likely form of "nuke device".

I figure I'm well away from any, population centers, ideological or symbolic targets. I don't consider it a major threat. Of course a simple BOB or kit likely has a pretty much what you need. A P-100 dust mask to keep particles out of your lungs and a simple disposable poncho to keep the dust off your skin are a pretty good start. Add a set of rubber gloves and boots and your set for most dirty bomb events.

Potassium iodide can help to keep your thyroid safe from radioactive iodine uptake and your certainly free to keep a supply handy for a worse case but I wouldn't think the mushroom cloud form of nuclear device is very likely. Even if it is I'm not close enough, or down wind of, any likely targets so it doesn't apply to me directly.

In the wider scale of things a natural disaster or accident is by far more likely to be your survival challenge.

A 30% chance? How soon?

I can say that there is a 100% chance that North America will be reduced to molten goo when the sun expands in it's old age.

Personally, I'm not too worried. I stay out of real cities.

My preps for that include the following:
1. Determine where a nuke would likely be set off (in my case either in the Port of Houston, the refineries/chemical plants along the ship channel, or leats likey to me - downtown Houston)

2. Figure out likely range on initial blast using the google maps nuke blast tool (do google search for link). I'm outside the range of intial blast if it occurs in any of those three locations.

3. Always try to know which way the wind is blowing. Unless we are in some weather event the wind usually blows south to north here during the day and north to south at night.

4. A bottle of potassium iodide and dosage information is on hand, though mainly beacause it was easy for me to get.

5. DW and DD1 have been taught what to do if they see a mushroom cloud (get inside, turn off AC, close all windows, etc.)

After that it falls under normal emergency preps (shelter in place or bug out depending on situation).

-Blast

Hi Blast,

A handy little fallout calculator is available at

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?formAction=297&contentId=426

Just program the location, the yield and the wind speed and direction.

Excellent! That's much more useful than the one I had used at http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html. The ability to change wind speed/direction on your link reassures me even more that a nuke set off down here we be terrible but not likely fatal to me at home.

-Blast

A 30% chance of a nuke going off on American soil... Wow... I'd like to know how they arrived at that statistic. 3.3 percent more and that's a 1 in 3 chance.

Still, I'd bet against those odds in Vegas.

And yet, I have prepared for such things. Ultimately though, my actions are going to depend on where a nuke goes off as to whether I Bug Out or In.

As for Potassium Idodide, I don't stock it. Would it be under the current harsh regulations that has hit the sale of some types of Iodine, or is it far enough removed to be unaffected?

Considering that my office overlooks Ground Xero, and DW works near Times Square, getting insdie when the mushroom cloud appears may not be an option. We just may not be able to run that fast. If you can feel the heat, you are probably within range of a shockwave. Do not run, unless you are real close, get down, find cover, NOW, and wait for two waves. Shockwaves will come in and go out. If you are this close, you are in a tough situation, but what else can you do?

What can you do???? Seems obvious to me- DON'T BE THERE! Working in NYC (or any other large city for that matter) is, in my opinion, a choice against one's own survival for many reasons.

Dirty bomb is really easy- don't worry much about it. While radioactive contamination of your person isn't a *good* thing, it's not automatically fatal. It's not even as bad as so-called-Journalists would say. They think you'll die if you look at the radioactive element in a smoke detector.... (a bio-bomb on the other hand could be a major problem)

My biggest nuke concern is a single EMP burst high overhead. Now THAT would do some widespread economic damage plus our veneer of civilized behavior would rupture and then cause physical harm.
Are your electronic survival devices stored EMP-protected???
(Unclassified sources suggest the Iranians have been practicing for an EMP strike. Makes sense- all it takes is ONE warhead to hurt us on an enormous scale.)

I'd be much more worried about the possibility of an accident when they finally start transporting all that spent fuel from around the country to yucca mt. Don't watch much television but happened to see a history channel show about the transporting of hazardous materials and that was some scary stuff.

For many living anywhere else would be a choice that also hurt their chances of survival. Deciding to do a lot of things risks your survival. Deciding not to do many of those things would be choosing to survive, and lesson the living you did while alive. And leaving in fear, that's simply not my game, and that is what certain terrorists would want me to do.

The Nuclear clock is now about 3-5 minutes til midnight.

I'm still much more worried about drunk drivers than I am Al Quaeda and any nukes.

Fear and the public's reaction to that fear is a much bigger threat than any nuke.

I've said this many times before: Al Quaeda in reality doesn't have to lift another finger against us to do damage and disrupt the US.

All they have to do is say "boo" and we'll take care of the rest. We (as a nation) will whip ourselves into a tizzy.

When the public goes bonkers, there's very little that can be done except get out of the way and that may not be an option.

One stray bullet fired in the air blocks away, or a misdirected Molotov cocktail, and most of the emergency preps are out the window.

I fear us much more than I fear Al Quaeda.

I fear terrorists, if not specifically Al Qaeda. Sooner or later one will strike, here. Unless it is something that results in massive damge, it will be forgotten in 20 years. Few in New York remember the LaGuardia bombing of 1975. Very few know anything about the Wall Street Bombing of September 16, 1920.

But, I fear us more. I fear natural disaster followed by unprepared, and soon unruly, Americans.

These "experts" are fools.

Anything brought up during the Dem or Rep debates is just someone shooting off his mouth in front of a reporter.

Our politicians are more dangerous than any delivered-by-hand-because-that's-all-they-have nuclear bomb. They've screwed up the whole world -- how can some Middle-eastern bozo beat that?

Someone probably just bought stock in a bomb shelter company...

Sue

Its interesting that Americans were suddenly thrust into a new world of terrorism on Sept. 11, 2001. The truth is the world had been like that for a long, long time, people just raised their heads and noticed it for a few minutes. World War I was started by anarchist terrorists. In 1919 a series of mail bombs in Gimbles Department store packages exploded around the country. Including bombs targeting senators and supreme court justices. Europe has been dealing with terrorist attacks nearly continuously since then, including attacks from the PLO, Red Brigade and IRA. American embassies and marine barracks were bombed. But on September, 11 the world changed. Of course it didn't we just noticed it, but only for a few minutes. By now its mostly forgotten.

At the same time, I'm not particularly afraid of terrorists. On Sept. 11 millions of people were working in office buildings around the country and approximately 3000 were killed. Millions of people flew in commercial aircraft and a few hundred were killed. It was a tremendous tragedy for those people and there families. But we need to keep the threat in proportion and not let fear run away with rational thought. I still fly commercial (although I am getting annoyed by the ramped up pettiness of security) and I'll still visit New York, Chicago and San Francisco when I get a chance. The threat just isn't big enough to warrant hiding out in the sticks.

What scares me is that all our current crop of politicians are just stuffed shirts without any solid leadership or ideas. But that's far too political for this board. What we can talk about though is threat assessments and what is and isn't worth worrying about. Right now nuclear weapons don't really make the list.

I guess that includes a "dirty bomb" - and there's no time-table, so yah, sure; 30% chance of a dirty bomb device in the next 100 years sounds feasible.

There's a free DVD movie dedicated to raising political awareness on the subject. "Last Best Chance" is an educational DVD that dramatizes the modern nuclear threat of international terrorist organizations, produced by the Nuclear Threat Initiative. The DVD is freely available through the NTI-supported website. The film stars Fred Thompson as President of the United States.: http://www.lastbestchance.org/

C-SPAN has aired a few intersting broadcasts on the subject that are available for online viewing:
On 07/18/2006 Undersecretary Joseph talked about the threat of nuclear terrorism - Topics included record of accomplishment, national strategy, network of partner nations, and transforming our diplomacy. He responded to questions from members of the audience: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/in...ighlight=threat

Joseph Cirincione is another good source who has been featured on CSPAN and has a few good books on the subject: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3756009759863502593&q=Joseph+Cirincione+cspan&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

There are many other "experts" on WMD avialable by books/online video like Hans Blicks, Graham Allison, etc... the threats real but very difficult to assess by the average Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker...

The nuclear threat is unlikely, but if it happens extremely devastating. If you look at the clean up that resuled from the poisoning for Alexander Litvinenko, see: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/30/news/spy.php, nuclear material can get spread easily once released. A dirty bomb in an area with a lot people, can have those people spreading a lot of radiation. So while the probability is low, what is at risk is a lot. With a nuclear explosion, what is at risk is even higher, but the probability is also probably lower.

An attack by a lone gunman or suicide bomber is much easier to pull off, and probably more likely. It's happened a number of times, and it is likely ot happen again. Usually, it's one of our own going off the deep end and creating havoc and carnage. Sooner or later, it may be used by Al Qaeda or a group like it. But I see anyone doing it as a terrorist, the reasons behind the attack differ, but little else does.

You could look at any kind of attack by thinking of both probability and the amount that is at risk. If you were going to calculate risk, you would use both the probability and the risk entailed when deciding what to guard against.

It seems to me that many people do not want to think about such risks, and in order to not think about them, they also choose not to think about preparing.

This board is full of people who think about risks. If you have something you've called and EDC, you think about risk. If you have a BOB, you think about risk. If you maintain a first aid kit, you think about risk.

If you have no water stored, no food stored, no way of keeoping yourself and your family warm and sheltered, not back ups of any type whatsover, then you do not like thinking about risk, and that would put you in the category with many others.

Uh… that was rather uncalled for and quite a bit over the top… especially from someone who only has three posts on this board so far. (Add to the fact that now two out of your three posts seem unnecessarily sarcastic, and that means you only have one mildly constructive post.)

I suggest sticking around for a while and getting to know the people you are among before shooting your mouth off with rude comments about them.

I wouldn't mess with IronRaven if I were you Buckshot. Playing with fire there. Although the majority of people here love to play with fire, maybe I should have phrased that differently.

1. Left click on blue-colored username at top left of a post.
2. Scroll down to "View Profile" and click.
3. Once profile pops up click on "Ignore this user"
4. Smile and whistle a happy tune.

-Blast

So........ share some of your superior knowledge then if you will bro, In the meantime relax, you may live longer. This isn't the place to be a s#$%h&#D.

[quote=unimogbert]
What can you do???? Seems obvious to me- DON'T BE THERE! Working in NYC (or any other large city for that matter) is, in my opinion, a choice against one's own survival for many reasons.
[/quote=unimogbert]

BullS*^^. Utter, total Bull%&*%^.

I live in a rural part of PA, and work in Manhattan. I'm a Lieutenant officer in the local Fire Company, and I've been in NYC during a recent emergency - when the big steam line exploded over my Grand Central terminal.

The response was instant - I mean it - instant. There was no dispatch delay, there was no waiting on responding workers.

The number and quality of emergency services in NYC surpasses ANYTHING you can imagine. The speed, competence and totality of the response, the preplaning, the sheer experience of the Urban emergency services leaves us rural folks so far behind it's not even comparable.

I've also seen the NYC response to big emergencies, starting with 9/11.

When FEMA called NYC to help on 9/11 - NYC said, "No, we can handle it". And they did.

When the lights went out for a few days in 2003, it was a bit of a party, No rioting, no looting.

I've seen stuff happening in NYC that would utterly cripple my local response capabilities - in every respect - and these events didn't even warrant any news coverage.

Before you automatically assume that cities are seething swamps ready to explode into violence at a moment's notice, I suggest that you consider that, with the exception of a few short-term localized events (Katrina, Watts, Washington Heights), our cities have always endured a crisis, and Americans have long banded together in a crisis.

Let's look to the California Wildfires as an example of how most people react in a "we're all in this together" situation.

BTW welcome to the forum.

Blitz

Well, what are we trying to say?

Me, I'm saying I live in the country, the closest city to me has less than two hundred thousand people in it- not a "real" city (sorry Matt). I'm not immediately downwind of anything worth wasting a nuke on any more. I'm not part of a response organization, I won't be going into significant fall out. So I'm not personally worried about the effects of a nuclear detonation other than the social ones, and that is pretty much the same as a large natural disaster combined with some extra paranoia. Isolate and decontaminate people bugging out, wait to see who gets sick- same as with plague or bird flu.

If there is a large scale exchange, that is different, but I honestly do not believe that any state (national, corporate or other) will lob that many nukes at the United States. Talk about it, sure, but I don't think is any more likely to happen than under whatshisname just before Gorby, it just isn't good for business to have us retaliate. That type of stupidity is largely confined to the Middle East, and India-Pakistan; real nuclear-nuts can't get a device to CONUS unless they ship it as freight.

Simply saying there is an X% probability of something happening, without mentioning the timeframe, sounds really cool in front of a television camera. But there isn't really anything there. There is a 100% probability that unless humanity figures out how to actually destroy the planet or we get run over by a baby black hole, the sun's death will reduce North America to a parking lot and blast the air and water away. But the time scale is too large to contemplate. There is a 100% probability that we will be hit with a very large comet or meteor that will radically alter the biosphere between now and then- probably several times. But again, the scale is too large to worry about. I'll go better than 30%, I'll say there is probably a 90%+ chance NYC or LA or some other major city will eventually have a nuke detonated in it. Maybe not in my life time, or our grandkids', it might happen after nukes are so obsolete that the most technical parts of the plans are in high school text books and some torqued off emo-kid builds one becuase he's annoyed that he can't buy matches to make a pipe bomb. *shrugs* Is there a real threat, sure, but the odds of the fault under the Hudson slipping are just as great and would do just as much damage as a small nuke would to NYC. But if I lived there, I wouldn't worry so much about it, just like if I was in California, I wouldn't worry about hurricanes too much.

So what are you trying to say? I'd invite you contribute your wisdom, if you have any. Or do you just have a beef?

martinfocazio - You make a good point. Rescue, relief and emergency services are about saving people. Which often means that the greatest quantity of external resources will be coming to the greatest concentration of people first. Also, because mitigation of damage is a matter of allocation of effort and resources, those places which have money, population and resources are more likely to have appropriate resources on hand.

If the situation is moderately sized, say a small dirty bomb, NYC may not be a bad place to be. They have multiple response teams with specialized training and equipment that smaller towns can't afford. They have top-rated trauma centers and some of the best specialized response units in the world.

If you get slimed in NYC there is a pretty good chance someone who knows how to handle it and the resources to do it right will be there for you. If you get slimed in Lower Podunk it takes a half-hour for the local volunteer FD to assemble. They will have little or no specialized equipment and their knowledge base will consist of a guy sounding out the big words from the wrong page in the manual. (I exaggerate a bit to make the point crystal clear. And to have some fun.) On the positive side if what you fear most is an attack by people bent on hurting the most people in a symbolic setting it is far less likely to happen in Tiny Town.

I like small town and rural life but you have to accept the limitations of the situation. Your more on your own. Response, if there is any, is going to take time getting there. Partly because it takes longer to organize and because it may be heading to the population centers. And, assuming they roll your way, if you want them to use any specialized knowledge or equipment you better bring it with you.

In example: In one rural county the fire department was using plain water to try to maintain protection on multiple homes during a wildfire. The few houses that got the gel that provided better protection only got it because a homeowner had heard about it and purchased it, and the equipment used to apply it, on his own.

Having done my tour in Manhattan, I must say there is some dichotomy of thought regarding survivability. On the one hand, there is perhaps no other place on earth with a more concentrated and robust population of emergency services personnel who are well equipped, highly trained, and eager to do their job (some more than others, but hey, that's the big apple for ya).

On the other hand, there is perhaps nowhere else on earth I've been (other than Baghdad) that I feel more like I've got a big bullseye painted on my back. Not just from enemies foreign, but also quite a few domestic nutjobs and scumbuckets as well. New York has cleaned up a lot in the last 15 years, but it is stil a place where anything can and will happen. Many were the days that I stood on the 30th floor of our office looking over the Hudson toward Lady Liberty, watching the Blackhawks cruising upriver and wondering from what avenue something wicked would that way come. In some remote recess of my mind, I almost expected to see a great flash and the ripple of an enegy wave move across the terrain below me, scouring everything in it's wake.

Then I'd go eat another slice of that glorious pizza and give thanks for how blessed I am to be able to enjoy such ambrosia.

I was running a boat a number of years ago, when one of my guys got hurt. We were right next to a Brooklyn, and I had him in a NYC Harbor Police station within five minutes. We got him to a hospital within ten or fifteen minutes, and he was treated fairly well. His wife was a nurse in a rural area of Virginia. She wanted him to be sent home for surgery and treatment. It took some talking to change her mind, but I basically asked about the surgeon who was going to do the work near his home and how many hands he operated on a year. It was fewer then the number that the New York guy did in every month and some weeks. I said after he is stablized and healing from the surgery, then you can take him home and get him some rehab. Some things here are second to none, including the pizza. Some other things, you need to accept to live here.

Do any of the pizza places deliver to the West Coast? What do you think the tip would be?

Sue

Why, yes they do...

http://www.nyflyingpizza.com/

New York Flying Pizza? Seems dubious to me.

Well, you're not going to get Grimaldi's or Lombardi's to deliver to the west coast unless you want pay "Guido's rate", which I don't think any of us here can afford. Even so, there's a lot of "not so good" pizza based on Manhattan standards that'd still be better than what you will find anywhere in the greater Seattle Metropolitan area.

Then again, no one makes anything close to a suitable clam chowder in Manhattan compared to the old Ivar's red that I used to enjoy on the ferry ride across Elliot Bay. Something about the water I think...

Of course now my tastes lean more towards a good gator tail po'boy with a side of fried oranges. Oh yeah!!!

I'm a bigger fan of DeNino's on Staten Island and DiFara's in Brooklyn. Lombardi's does not travel well at all, I've ordered it and had it delivered across town. My few years spent in Virginia in grad school lead me to appreciate NY pizza more, but I cannot get bbq or biscuits with gravy or chicken fried steak here like I could there. I've found few local delicacies travel well, and you are missing out if you do not eat them. I simply accept that my local version is not quite as good as the real thing. And I love the different regional foods on the U.S. of A., from lobster and fried clams in New England to dungeness and fish tacos on the West Coast, and almost everything in between.

I also had a friend who kind of set me straight on complaining about bad pizza. His thought was that there is no such thing. Sure, there is better and worse in a relative sense. But eat the worst piece of frozen cardboard from the grocery store, and it still tastes pretty good to me.

Try to find some good examples of a NY Oyster Stew today. It's not easy anywhere.

As with emergencies and disasters and food. Each local area has differences, and knowing the strengths and weaknesses in each is key.

Ben, please stop. You are tempting me to break a New Years resolution. :P

Flying Pizza. Interesting concept. Which brings up an interesting question. If you order a pizza delivered to your location in a another state and then there is a biological, chemical or dirty bomb attack do you eat the pizza when it arrives?

Or do you give it the once over with the radiation meter and get your kid sister to try if it first?

This all begs the question: where is all this hostility coming from? Ironraven and the other people on this forum are just names on a computer screen to you. If you feel the need to fill every post with nastiness, why are you here? Also what is your fixation with people living with their parents? I won't make any suppositions since I know next to nothing about you, but you sound like a very angry or unhappy person. Do you lash out like this all the time or are you only able to do it online?

All in all though, I just find your behavior puzzling (especially since most of your comments are such non-sequiturs) and kind of distracting. Maybe you need a punching bag, or more likely a shoulder to cry on. This forum isn't it though. It's just a website where people talk about the outdoors and preparing for emergencies.

Reading through this thread I think you have a point there AROTC.

I believe that if someone willfully annoys or disrespects you or gets the facts wrong, as you see it, you have every right to explain how you see it in a civil manner.

I think "Buckshot" has gone somewhat farther than that.

Well, -its like as if you spread 1,000 marbles out on a table. Imagine for a moment you are one of the marbles. Al Qaida dude reaches over to pick up a marble. You're darned right, -that you're 999 times more likely *not* to be so picked up, -than being that one that is picked up.

True, -you do have to worry Far More what "bump intos", -that the adjacent marbles next to you will do to you, -than what the AQ dude standing over your table will do. At least relative to you, -your sole, individual, self.

Yes, -they often just have to say Boo!, -and we'll fall into place with some measures of Tizzy. But in not getting beyond the proper dividing line, into such an overage, -I thott this was known as Preparedness.

But they've also been known to say more than just words, -Boo or otherwise. 7 years ago on September 11th, as well as on numerous enuff occassions before and since. They even publicly vollunteer credit for such.

So they operate on both the "Boo!", -and "Land in a Blow", -options.

Moral of the Story, -The more we Sleep!, -Fall on Back to Sleep!, -as we were on Sept 10th and before, (and increasingly anymore, later), the more we Enliken and Enable their Landing again a Blow! The more we Stay on the Ever-Alert!, -the more likely they can and will only land Words our way, -Boo or otherwise.

So Be Prepared, -with more than just standard things like stocking up on Gear. Be Prepared by exercising the requisite Awareness and all that it takes!, -to Lessen and Prevent such possibilities in the first place.

I'd rather have them reduced more into the Boo saying direction, -over the Landing a Blow sort of one.

For when or if one of em does reach over, -to pick up one of our Fellow Marbles, -Sure!, -it very well and likely won't be you.

But it would in that case be some marble, -somebody.

We very much are to run our own Lives, Business, and Affairs, -but to a certain extent, -we are also our "Fellow American's Keeper". And just maybe, -any individual "you" among us, -could be that marble so picked up. That marble then would understandably expect, -a due amount of "Keepage" from its fellow marbles.

Lets encourage and enliken their reduction to just saying Boo!

At that point, -Lets then take your advice, -and not over-react to that Boo.

But until then and throughout, -Lets not let our Preparedness Guard down as well!

For as with earlier US / Soviet MAD preps for war, -actually Dampened and Discouraged such war, -counterintuitive and ironic as that may seem. And moments of weakness on our parts conversely Enlikened and Encouraged such war, -the same now holds true with such a new adversary.

Your Advice is good up to a point. But beyond that point, -by our Softening Up and taking your advice Too Far, -Blows from this Foe increase over their just saying Boo!

I Agree with you substantially up to that Point! But I Strongly Caution against a "Guard Weakening Up" going beyond that point!

Your Points notwithstanding, -Nuclear stuff from they or any other Foe would kill and injure far more than just 3,000 in one (actually 2) of our buildings, -or a few hundred in but a few aircraft. As you've made mention to.

They've more than a few times, -have publicly claimed to aim to get some Millions of us, -in another go.

I guess your point holds, that thats still a minority, -next to our 300 million population. But thats still Far More than the 3,000 and 300(?) that you give via example. Even you, -via your own Reasoning, -have to be at least that much more concerned over it! And hopefully at least that much more Mentally (I mean "Giving Thought to") and Materially Prepared for such possibilities, -however Near or Remote.

Yes, -someone who's only education was learning their Holy Book by Heart, -isn't gonna know all the Fine Complexities involved in creating, and then setting a nuclear device off.

But on the Flip Side of that very same coin, -I Remind and Caution of Factors such as the following,-

) The often Astonishing Ease of getting Nuclear Materials and other WMD out of the former Soviet Union, -just a lttle to their north.

) Iran's longstanding actual and active pursuit of such things. And moreover, Iran is certainly in "their general league and club". And even if one beleives a newer "intelligence" report to the contrary, -Fact remains they wer longtime, and bigtime, -working on it! That Nuclear Material and Know How, -didn't just majically disappear into thin air!

) saadam's longtime Nuclear and other WMD pursuit just to Iran's west. These too didn't just majically disappear off! Sure, many weren't ultimately found, -But that doesn't mean that they were never there! One can always hide, transfer, or destroy them, -"while the Inspector Cat's away!". if transferred, -who may they have been transferred to?! Perhaps to some among the very groups we're speaking of here! As with the way that everything ends up in a flea market or liquidation, -such things can end up in Wrong Hands as we speak of here, as well. Israel didn't just strike a baby milk factory or something, -as long ago as 81 or 82. But a genuine, "Bomb Capable", Nuclear Reactor.

) Pakistan, also from among their "Cultural Camp", to say a least, Definitely *Has* not only Nuclear Materials, -but the Bomb itself! And to boot, -this is the country that OBL and his entourage, are beleived to be most likely hiding in! and there's suppossedly not some increased liklihood of Transfer or Theft here!?...

) North Korea, and their Nuclear Shennanigans.

) The list need not end here!

These "Limited Dopes" sure learned how to fly an Airliner!

Given enuff time and hidden "cavework", -they *can* conceivably Achieve such a Complexity! From the Brainwork of others, -if not all their own. As a saying should perhaps go, "If you can't Pull it Off yourself, -then go Take it Off from others!" Others that can!

I Strongly Advise, -that such Real Factors as I mention, -be put in people's Pipes, and Smoked on, -for awhile! Before just dismissing them out of hand. And that by a look at only your side of the Coin! No!, -also look on that *Other* side as I mention, as well!

Not to invoke the label of "conspiracy theorist", but I have to think that if those in power really wanted the threat to be gone, we have all the means and methods necessary to effect such desire into a reality in fairly short order. I don't think the establishment is as interested in making the world a safer place to live as it is to maintain a venue whereby they can justify certain activities for "the ever diligent and greater good" of our society.

I just can't accept, given what I know about our own capabilities, that we really are unable to neutralize any threat swiftly and completely if we really wanted to. If there was a real will to stop the terrorists, or the invasion of America, or the proliferation of nuclear arms, then it would happen and happen rather quickly.

It makes much more sense that we maintain this "threat level" as justification for ongoing funding of certain programs, generalized increased scrutiny of the masses, and securing ever increasing levels of tyranny. Who 10 years ago would ever have thought we would be standing in security lines for hours just to go from Seattle to Portland, and not be allowed to bring a book of matches or a bottle of water with you? Yet they can't(won't) stop anyone from just walking into this country as they please?

We are moving towards PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. in leaps and bounds these days. I never thought being a citizen would be such a debtriment in my lifetime.

As a retired military veteran,, I completely agree with you, Benjammin

Benajmmin and wildman800...ditto

USAF Retired

Benajmmin -

Maybe I need to start smokin'...cigars...to achieve the same clarity of thought. Seriously, well put.

I have gone over this before and I have refrained (from spouting the same ole storyline) until now BUT the same ole subject and question keeps arising, so I'll say it again (sorry if I bore anybody).

The nuclear problem is not that difficult of a problem if one knows what they are dealing with. To survive, the following is needed:

1) The farther away from ground zero, the better. Trying to shelter from blast effects can be difficult without 24-48 hrs notice.

2) A shelter has to provide the following: Food, water, toilet facility, garbage/sewage storage/disposal, AIR, and CARBON DIOXIDE removal, a light source.

3) Nice to haves: A way to heat up food (CARBON MONOXIDE removal if a flame is lighted), board games/cards/text books, passive communications (AM/FM/UHF/satellite/scanner radio and T.V, cellphones), a method to generate electrical power, etc.

4) Radioactive particles decay on a Bell Curve. Most Gamma Ray emitting particles will go up a few miles of altitude and will stay aloft until after they have decayed and become Isotopes. Any fallout particles from the blast forced horizontally outward, at ground level, pose a serious problem until it has rained several times and washed them into the creeks, streams, rivers, etc. and/or washed them deep into the soil. Again, the farther away from Ground Zero that one is, the better. The Alpha and Beta particles are easily shielded against. Neutron radioactive particles have twice the penetration of Gamma Particles but the chances of having to deal with Neutron particles is very slight and of limited blast range and decay within 36 hours. If Neutron particles are in your neighborhood, chances are you will die quickly and quietly because distance from a potential Nuke Target is critical for survival, at any rate.

5) Gamma Particles have a range of 100-300 feet from the particle. It takes 14 Half-Life Shield thicknesses to protect one from Gamma radiation.

6) Neutron Particles have a classified range from the particle but the effective range of the weapon is destruction out 1-3 miles and radiation out to 30-35 miles. It takes 28 Half-Life Shield thicknesses to protect one from Neutron radiation. (derived from a Nursing Manual; can you believe it?)

7) Beta Particles have a range of 10-30 feet from the particle. It takes tightly woven clothing to block Beta radiation.

8) Alpha Particles have a range of 1-3 inches from the particle. It takes paper to block Alpha radiation.

9) Air intake can be achieved with a simple hand-operated cyclinder pump made from plywood with rubber trimming and axle grease and by using rubber flapper valves to control the intake and outtakes.

10) CO2 (& Carbon Monoxide) removal can be achieved with a 2" PVC pipe that runs from a 1/4" off of the deck to the exterior. A rubber flapper valve attached to the top rim of the pipe, outside of the shelter, will allow the gases to escape when air is forced into the shelter and close off as air is sucked into the shelter, by the hand-operated pump.

11) A porta-potty will collect sewage and short trips can be made to the toilet to dump the holding tank when it is full, providing that one is sheltering inside of their home.

12) Potable water can be stored inside of the area chosen to be a shelter in various ways. Non-potable water (for the toilet reservoir) can be stored in any container in or outside of the shelter.

13) Possible shelter spaces within the home (providing you are far enough away from Ground Zero to start with) can be a bathroom (the larger the better) or a garage (have to seal off around the doors and windows) and be able to run piping for air intake, CO2 out take, and conduit for power (?) and external antennas (if you have communications capabilities).

14) Great sources of info:
www.standeyo.com www.daretoprepare.com

and place the following into a search engine: What to Do If Nuclear Attack Or Disaster Is Imminent; and Nuclear War Survival Skills.

15) The knowledge of the threat and actively planning & preparing for that event will have one prepared for just about any natural or man made disaster and allows one to sleep very well at night.

16) IMHO!

I forgot to mention the following:

9a) You can use the air breather assembly from your car, connected to the air intake piping. Wrap a new flannel shirt around the air filter element and you should be good to go for cleaned air.