Why do you need a survival gun?

I've been trying to think of how to pose this question, but there are very few situations which might become survival situations where I'd consider a firearm to be seriously important as survival gear. Outside of concealed carry handguns, when do you carry a firearm as survival gear? Do you carry it, or is it a home in case of a wider scale disaster? If you are carrying a "survival gun", why? Dangerous animals? Hunting? If hunting, what kind of game do you expect to be hunting? And finally, where do you live, work or recreate that you carry your survival weapon?

I've been thinking about this for myself and even here in Wyoming, I don't feel sufficiently threatened by bear or moose to carry a weapon for protection. I might if I was further north or west near Yellowstone and definitely would if I was in Alaska. And I don't really see myself being in a situation where I would need to hunt to eat. Unless seriously injured I can pretty easily walk to a road in a day or two, and if I am seriously injured I don't know that I could hunt. That said, I do occasionally carry a 9mm pistol and quite often a .22 pistol. But while they are both definitely options in a survival situation, I don't specifically carry them as survival gear. The 9mm is my concealed carry weapon and the .22 is for plinking.

I certainly don't think there is an ideal survival weapon. Against bear or moose a high powered rifle or 12 shotgun would top my list. For short term hunting a .22 rifle or pistol since I have to consider weight. Shotguns are versatile, but the ammo and weapon are heavy especially if you're lucky enough to be carrying a tent, sleeping bag and cooking gear(and if you're carrying a shotgun why wouldn't you be?). For protection in a break down of civil order I'd probably choose a combination of compact pistol and a semi-auto AK variant with a folding stock.

While plinking isn’t a survival goal, self-defense sure as hell is. The goal of defending yourself is to survive, isn’t it?


Oh, there are ideal weapons for certain survival situations, such as self-defense, but there is no blanket weapon that serves ideally for everything. (The shotgun comes close, and would be ideal if only small enough to carry everywhere.) Your weapon of choice is just like any other piece of gear… it should be suited to the situation(s) you have evaluated and find most probably of putting you in danger. The choice of proper gear always starts with a risk assessment.

I too have been thinking about this one a lot. Being Canadian my options are much more limited due to federal law. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that I don't need to carry a firearm for survival. For every situation I can think of where I could use one, I can think of a better, cheaper, easier way to do things.

Kind of like you said, it would seem to depend on where you live.

Are you expecting urban upheaval? Do you live in dense forests?

My Granddad grew up in Eastern Montana and talked to the old timers
who were the first to settle there. Few could afford or make use of
a shotgun or a pistol. Wide open prairies dictated a rifle if
they expected to hunt for food.

Locally a vigilante group went after some Indians in one of the
last battles between whites and natives. Hundreds of people on both sides.

The whites were easily run off and killed cause they came to the fight armed with old military revolvers and shotguns, while the Indians had repeating rifles.

A firearm is somewhat a multi-use item. From the main uses of hunting and self-defense (from animals two legged and four), to possible uses like fire starting, signaling, and whatever else you can think of. Not as multi-use as, say, a knife; but it can do certain things that would be tough to accomplish without it.

Like many said though, what use you have for a firearm depends on what you're planning for and what your environment is like.

If you're only planning for a best case scenario, say spending a day or two in the Pine Barrens until you can make your way to safety (or get rescued), you're probably not going to need a firearm. If you're planning on doing a three week trek through Alaska, or you're planning on making your way out of Newark during a riot (like my grandfather in '67), it becomes a more important piece of kit.

I think the reason most people consider taking a firearm as part of their gear, is that it's very traditional when it comes to outdoor living. Just like no early American settler, trapper, or cowboy would be caught without their knife, their firearm(s) wouldn't be far behind. It was useful then, so it could be just as useful now.

In thirty plus years of playing on the woods I have never needed a survival gun, there were times when I wanted one but never needed one. I continue to make firearms part of my survival plans mainly because of the two legged type animals. In my main kit I keep a Ruger 10/22 along with several magazines it and for my EDC Colt 1911 as well as ammo for both. My 10/22 can be used for defense as well as hunting while my .45 is primarily for defense. As stated in several post I have been in several man made and natural disasters and the one thing they all had in common was that those with the will and means preyed upon those without the means or will to defend themselves.

I'll tell you the best reason why I have a gun - peace of mind. Like the saying goes:

"I would rather have my gun and not need it, than need my gun and not have it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopLg4SqzpA

The reason I didn't include self-defense is because the questions involved there have been pretty well gone over on any number of forums and in any number of books. Plenty of people carry for self-defense on a regular basis and their reasons for doing so are well documented. The question of other survival situations I don't think has been dealt with as thoroughly.

For sure, to carry a pistol in Canada legally would require an act of God, unless you are a police officer. This eliminates it altogether as a survival tool in all except home defence situations, for all law abiding citizens anyway. There are some very nifty combo rifles that chamber .22 cal as well as .410 bore and are very compact and light. I find them a little inaccurate and clumsy personally. They actually are sold as survival guns though.(check out the Springfield Armory M-6 Scout). My survival gun which I carry in the field for backpacking is the trusty old Ruger 10/22 in stainless and synthetic. I use an Eberlestock J104 backpack which has an incorporated scabbard for a rifle. This allows me free use of both hands while keeping my rifle safe and out of my way unless I need it. After big game and Goose hunting seasons are over I like to combine hiking with rabbit hunting just to have something to hunt in the off season, especially late in winter when you can add ice fishing in there as an added bonus. For this reason I probably have had my Ruger in the field more than any of my other guns. I feel a hell of a lot better with it than without it because I will not lie to you fine people, but even with 11 years in the Army I have been turned around in a storm and "geographically embarrassed" more than once looking for my truck. In northern Canada in winter the temp can drop to -50 deg cel. The only food you get besides ice fishing will be what you already have, what you shoot, or what you snare. Good luck looking for berries like you can do in warmer places. Every place has different things to consider when lost. In Alberta during winter my immediate need in a bad situation is shelter and fire, fast. I could live for weeks without food, and in Canada you can close your eyes and walk 50 feet in any direction to find water in most places. But I will freeze to death very fast. In all honesty, I do not NEED a survival rifle. I just very much ENJOY having a trusty firearm at my side in the woods.

I don't classify any particular gun as a "survival gun" simply because just as I do with all tools, I will grab whatever gun is required for the situation at hand. Most of my guns are part of contingency plans and most of those involve sheltering in rather than bugging out.

I grew up on the gulf coast and still have family scattered along the gulf coast and at times when there are hurricanes, etc and I am going to help them recover/evacuate I will grab a shotgun and a rifle to take with me along with my EDC handgun but those are mainly in case of looters or significant civil unrest that may develop in the area.

Guns are simply mechanical tools and whatever the situation I'm in, I would rather have the tool and not need it than need it and not have it.

Here's a good discussion on an ideal survival weapon.

It's geared toward the more common event that a high powered weapon is required- zombie attacks. Very informative.


J

My BOB or other "survival kit" that I might has put together doesn't routinely contain a firearm ....well ...at least until I can figure out how to keep it locked up to prevent theft.
But given the option of evacuating from my home I will defintely carry a weapon...probably more than one.
I have not been molested in my camping or forays in the woods, but the adage about having a gun and not needing it rather than not having one and wanting one is very appropriate.
To me ..its about being prepared. Sure my kits all have knives ...and I could use them. But the potential to be vulnerable to idiots and criminal elements during a disaster scenario is more likely than not in my mind. Given that the police confiscated firearms after Katrina is clear evidence to me that having a gun is warranted in any disaster scenario.
Bare bones ...would be a .22 and a .45 ACP .... An AR-7 and or 10/22 are preferred candidates for the .22 as well as Browning Buckmark or Ruger MkI, II, or III. While the nod goes to any 1911 etc, type pistol. Kit size would help decide... and walking vs use of my truck (or other vehicle) would dictate volumes of ammo and weapon duplication. Preference would be at least 100 rds of 45 ACP ...failing that, the gun w/6 xtra loaded mags would be good start. Can't see getting out without at least a couple hundred 22's though ... space and weight being so much smaller.
Owning guns but not taking them seems idiotic to me. Though admittedly .. given my work an inability to carry in my vehicle on a daily basis I can see myself with out them if I can't get home first.
I seriously doubt that after a disaster things will be the same as they are now ...look at all the looting etc that happens just when there's an extended power outage ... rioting after the Rodney King trial in the 90's...imagine that on a larger scale.
Sure ...its OK to object to firearms on moral grounds ...I'm OK with personal choice... but my choice is to own guns ...and I'm bringing in mine with me if at all possible. And with any luck ...I'll never need one.

*looks around for a pitchfork and torch bearing mob*

*whispers* Because you can.

That's the answer for 90% of what we put in our kits anyway. *laughs* And you are right, there is no "perfect survival gun"- all guns are "survival" guns from the right perspective. If I had to pick the closest to ideal, it would be either a .357 or .44 with a 6" barrel, a similiarly chambered carbine, or a combo gun in 12ga/.30-30 or .30-06 with some sub-caliber adapters for a small game round.

For me, the why has a lot to do with feral dogs- not dumped pets, but true ferals, second or third generation. They are wild animals, but they are close enough to domesticated ones that they don't fear humans. Attacks have been rare, but I'd rather not be on the wrong end of one- almost once was close enough. Rabies has also been an issue around here, and while a rabid feral isn't something I've heard of, there is just the factor of mercy. If I was some place with catamounts, boar or aggressive bear populations (or bigfeet) I would carry something on the large side. Down south, I might carry something loaded with snake shot, so that if I do get bit I can hand the doc the dead snake so he can give me the right stuff. (And so I can eat it later- I hold a grudge, and as Man-the-Toolmaker, I win.)

In a longer term situation, hunting can be a part of it.

For bugging out, the main reason I'm bringing my Garand with me is becuase it is a family heirloom. I'm not leaving it behind if I have to evac, just like some people can't leave behind wedding pictures.

I spent a lot of time trying to decide between a Ruger GP100 (.357 mag, 6" barrel) or a Ruger Super Redhawk (.44 mag). I kept being drawn to the higher power Super Redhawk, but in the end I chose the more versatile GP100. Not only does it shoot .357 but it will also shoot cheaper .38 special.

When you factor in the price of ammo, target practice with my GP100 is dramatically cheaper than what I would be paying if I had the Super Redhawk.

Why do I think a survival gun is good to have?

Because I firmly believe that the best thing for folks to get through a disaster/survival situation is for a group of commonly minded people to work together for the common good.

Unfortunately, there are a few "folks" that feel otherwise, and the chaos that can follow in the wake of emergency situations seems be the starter pistol that brings them slithering out of their holes.

More true words have not been spoken. If I put everything into my pack that I'd like to (and I've tried to make this work many times), the pack weighs over 70 lbs with food and water.

My kitchen table hasn't been able to be used in 2 weeks because it's all spread out systematically so I can try to figure out just where everything needs to go and what I can do without.

With that in mind I couldn't imagine adding another 8 lbs for something I won't use.

I have several firearms in my kit, both short and long, because they add a amount of mental comfort to me. I feel best to have and not want, than want and not have. Saying that, my BOB is a BOY (Bug Out GMC Yukon). Due to injuries, I CAN NOT effectively run, and therefore can't employ the "feet don't fail me now" approach. If all else fails and I am attacked by 4 or 2 legged creatures, I've little choice but to stand and fight.
My long gun is either a .22/20ga or a .22/.410 Savage 24 combo. Being on th e East Coast, either cartridge will work well for hunting, and not much will argue with a 20ga Slug.

I carry some type of gun wherever I legally can. In my state that is darn near everywhere. I carry one mainly for defense against human or (far less likely) animal attacks, primarily dogs, cougar, or bear. When I bowhunt (for deer) I carry a revolver, usually a .44 mag. On other hunts I may be carrying a rifle (elk), shotgun (grouse), or the aforementioned Savage 24 combo (rabbits.) In the city it's either a Keltec P3AT, a Sig Sauer 239, or a 1911 (rarely).

I have no quarrel with people who decide they don't need to carry a gun, as long as they don't thereupon decide that I don't need to carry one. After all, who am I to decide what's best for them? I am however firmly convinced that everyone should know how to use one. it is just one more survival skill to have. It may never be used, but then again....

For the same reasons I have other emergency equipment. I pray I never "have to" depend on it but I believe it's foolish not to be prepared. I may be able to fend off a wild/feral animal attack (as unlikely as that may seem) with a spear or club but I'd feel a lot more confident with a firearm.

Utility aside, there is something extremely satisfying about packing a trail gun in a quality piece of gunleather. Come to think about it there's something extremely satisfying about the phrase "trail gun" - at least in my mind.

That's reason enough for me.

As far as wilderness situations go I'm not likely to be anywhere where a gun would help against wild animals. At best it is a noisemaker. Stranded in the rare 'wilderness' in the SE I wouldn't be doing much hunting or fishing. Taking time to hunt would just detract from my primary task of getting rescued, if I couldn't walk out, or walking out.

Down here in Florida we have black bears, panthers and gators. Black bears are invariably shy unless cornered or surprised. Panthers are pretty much extinct. I would feel privileged to see one. Gators lay in wait and attack so swiftly that even with a loaded gun in your hands with the safety off odds are you still get bit. Gators are notoriously numb to damage so you have to hit a vital spot. Good luck.

A fellow hiker pointed out the threat of wild dogs, hogs and snakes. Right. Never had a problem with wild hogs or dogs. They sniff around. You yell. They flee. And the best tool for dealing with a snake is still a stick. You could beat it but I generally just flip it out of my path. Not a big problem.

For the far more likely urban or suburban situation a gun has only one use: To renegotiate a power imbalance. Even then it is always left concealed and the last resort. A lot of gun people lead with the gun and neglect their skills in human relations. IMO 99% of the situation you can fake, talk, bluster or negotiate your way out of a confrontation faster, easier and with better results that what you get if you pull a gun.

For that rare 1% a .357 revolver with a 3 or 4" barrel and 15 rounds comes in handy. You not fighting a war. Your negotiating the peace. Keep it well under wraps but not so buried that you can't get to it or discreetly let someone know that your not defenseless. No need to bring it out into the open or wave it around.

A shotgun would IMHO be ideal because of its reputation and visual impact but it is both heavy and bulky. A simple pistol is likely to be more than enough to deal with your average street thug, waylayer or bully. IMHO a .357 revolver is the sweet spot between bulk and weight and effectiveness.

Just remember not to shame anyone or make it personal. Be polite and be prepared to take an insult and look less dominate. Even while protecting yourself. A public display of subordination combined with a private understanding that if attacked the lead guy gets shot can be a powerful combination. This allows the other guy to look magnanimous letting you go. He gets to preserve his reputation for not backing down and you slide on through. Your looking to get out of a situation and advance toward safety not get into a feud or clash of wills.

Funny we talk about wild dogs. A few years back we were loading up our snowmobiles on the side of a trail and we got attacked by a pack of straggly looking dogs. If we weren't already all loaded up and able to hop into the truck I don't know what we would have done. They were mean as hell and honking the horn didn't even phase them. I don't think any of them were rabid, but you never know. I definitely wouldn't want to meet up with them alone in the woods, at least not without a bit of firepower.