SoCal - The Anti-Katrina

What a difference money makes.

The vast majority, dare I say ALL of the people evacuating from the fires have cars, money and insurance.

I spotted this tidbit in the news:

" SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- The wildfires in California have forced an exodus of estimated 950,000 people from their homes. But where have they all gone?

The American Red Cross reported Wednesday that only a small fraction of the nearly 1 million evacuees have been spending the past few nights at dozens of designated shelters stretching from San Diego County to Los Angeles County."

They are staying in Hotels and with friends.

1 MILLION PEOPLE DISPLACED.
I'm so sorry to disappoint all of those who expect the total collapse of society after a major disaster, however, once again, evidence is showing that people - even ill-equipped people - will try to help in the majority of bad situations. Katrina was a bad situation, but an exception caused, I think, by a presumption that virtually every can do what the people in California did - jump in the car and GO. I'm sure as this all winds down, we'll hear more about it, but this affirms my firm conviction that with a little leadership and a little planning, people pull together in a crisis.

Cars, most likely. Money and insurance? Probably not all have the money to spare, and I doubt enough have insurance. If they did, why would the feds be declaring it a disaster and spending money on them?

One good thing about SoCal is the huge numbers of hotels and motels. Being tourist-country has some advantages apparently. Maybe some of the displaced went back to their country of origin?(yup, I went there!) Apparently the INS has been pulling agents off the border due to the danger of them being cut off from escape by fires.

On the good news front, some areas are allowing folks back home.

May we please send our remaining +100,000 Katrina evacuees to SoCal?

-Blast in Houston

From what I've seen on TV, seems like a lot of people have been driving just far enough to be out of the immediate evacuation areas and then just hanging out in their cars rather than driving to a shelter or to homes of friends or family. I have no idea what proportion of evacuees are doing this, but you see plenty of them on the local news very close to the fire line. I suppose this is only possible because life still goes on fairly normally just outside the evacuation zones. You can eat in a restaurant, use the bathroom, buy groceries, etc. Very different from evacuating from a hurricane where everyone is going somewhere.

I was just watching some TV during my lunch break. I'm a bit surprised that all of the TV programming has reverted to normal programming already. CNN was the only channel I flipped through just now that was showing fire related news. The skies above me are filled with smoke and we're supposed to watch soaps and Divorce Court?

Keep in mind the difference in the situation was the lack of planning on the part of the City of New Orleans. Officials instructed the people to go to the Superdome as a shelter. It was not equiped for the disaster. Once all those people were there it was too late.

Seems to me the folks in California had a pretty good plan in place. Thats a massive amount of people to move as fast as they did.

Over two years later and New Orleans is poised for another disaster.

Obviously none of us should expect any government to keep us safe in a disaster

Self-determination and willingness to help each other out seems also to have played a big part. I guess it also helped that thugs weren't shooting at the rescue workers from concealed sniper positions. Thank you California for showing the rest of us how its done. Prayers for the families that have suffered losses.

Craig.

I think a lot of people in CA actually learned a lesson from Katrina: you take care of it, or it isn't getting taken care of. There are a lot of people who actually WILL learn if you bash them in the face a few times. Also, arrangements have been made for pets in this disaster, far more than has ever been made elsewhere, IIRC. The DelMar racetrack and a shopping mall is accepting horses. Some shelters are accepting dogs and cats.


Also, doesn't declaring a Federal Disaster Area just provide low-interest LOANS for repair and reconstruction to the affected areas? I have never understood it to be just free money.

I've been out of the insurance buriness for quite a while, but here is my memory of how property insurance and losses work:

Your property can be insured for the A) initial cost of the house or manufactured home (MH); B) the current value of the home (Replacement Cost); or C) future replacement cost, the actual cost it would take to replace your house just like it was before the fire (etc).

Of course A is cheaper, but you're really going to be left holding a bag of ashes if you've got it.

B is probably most common, but you would probably find that the actual financial replacement of your house would end up being more than the insurance company says it's worth, or will pay.

C is the most expensive, and a lot of people can't afford it.

Think of property insurance like auto insurance: You get hit, your car is totaled, the ins. co. pays off the remainder of the loan to the bank, and you have to pay for a new car out of your own pocket, and the guy that hit you just gets a rate increase. You're insured, but you still lose.

How many of you actually KNOW what kind of coverage you've got, and exactly what it covers? Maybe you'd better READ your policy and see what you've got... and haven't. Call your agent for explanations.

Insurance is a contract and nothing else. The company will pay what they're forced to pay, and not a penny more. As a friend of mine says, "Insurance companies are in the premium-collecting business, NOT the claim-paying business".

A REMINDER: Any time you have any kind of a claim, and the adjuster says you aren't covered and you've read your policy and think you are (even if there might be a gray area), immediately contact your State Insurance Commissioner (SIC). [Do this before you call an attorney, as they're free and working for you.]

Call and tell the receptionist the very bare bones (no details, she doesn't care), but she will send out a form where you can put every single detail, date, conversation, name of person you spoke to, what they said, etc. (You DID take notes, right?)

The SIC will review your information, then ask the ins. co. what they have to say. The SIC is the Big Gun in your state's insurance. The companies either play nicely with them and the insureds, or they can get booted out of the state, which they absolutely DO NOT want. Insurance companies will sneer at attorneys, but fear the SIC.

If you were anywhere near being right, your insurance company will likely call or write you and be VERY sweet and polite, saying that obviously a mistake was made and they will fix it, and (as in my sister's medical case) all you have to pay is $22.61.

SIC first, attorney later.

Sue

Sue,

That was great advice. Great enough in fact to print out and include in my emergency binder.

-Blast

sure, what's another 100,000 more!

NO WAY! We're pretty full here, I'd actually like to send some of the transplanted Texans back to Texas! j/k Blast, you're always welcome here....to visit

To be honest, it's probably not a fair comparison between New Orleans and the California fires. The amount of destruction is probably an order of magnitude difference. While the media has been busy reporting the fires 24/7 for the last week and making it appear that all of Southern California is on fire, I think the current count is about 1100 homes destroyed. 1100 homes in Soutern California is probably equivilent to 1 housing tract. I haven't been following all of the news lately (a little burned out from the coverage, haha) but a lot of the homes affected are in wealthier areas. Since more affluent people like to live in the hills overlooking all us peons, and the wildfires normally occur in the mountains, it's probably not representative of most of California.

Money does play an important part in preparations. Short of a complete worldwide breakdown of society, you can pretty much buy your way out of any short term problem. That's probably why you dont' see the same problems that Katrina had. Even though I'd like to attribute it to Californians being smarter, or more prepared, it's probably just the fact that the fires aren't as big of a disaster as Katrina, plus many of the evacuees probably have more cash on hand than the trapped New Orleans residents. A family with a car and very generous bank account, and you won't see them in an evacuation shelter waiting for governement supplies, they're just gonna be at a hotel outside the fire area eating out everyday.

this was a slowly growing evacuation - as opposed to everyone all at once.

i think the dense smoke in front of the fires prodded and made believers out of the non-believers.

as did the news flow - which is now fading fast.

katrina memory played a part.

here in socal you need a car - but not everyone drives a late model escalade, no matter what tv says. it's minimum specs in our far flung area of the country to have wheels. and people could travel at will.

as mentioned above, you could retreat close by the area and still have services of daily living.

I live hear and would like everyone to know that at the largest evacuation center (Qualcom Stadium) there are nearly 1 volunteer to 1 evacuee, that is a pretty good ratio. Also there are bands playing and it looks like if I can talk my parents in to driving me (unlikely) that I may volunteer, but the only other thing hindering me is that they have to turn volunteers away.

-Jace

Like Blast said, excellent advice. Thanks, Susan!

Just so happens I'll be in Anaheim for a conference next month. Try and have everything cleaned up by then, okay?

-Blast, who goes to California fairly often but prefers freedom

I'm not sure why everyone thinks these fires are merely inconveniencing rich people. I'm out here and I'm pretty darned familiar with the area. I own a horse ranch in Riverside County a stone's throw from the San Diego County border. I'm not a rich hobbyist. This is what I do for a living. If you've heard of the Rosa or Rice Canyon fires, we can see the flames. The 2003 fires burned our place. I have friends with smaller ranches and horses in the evacuation zones that I haven't heard from since the fires started. I have no idea whether they or their animals are OK, let alone their ranches. We're keeping some evacuated horses at our ranch.

Sure, a few expensive neighborhoods got burned out - Malibu, Poway, Rancho Bernardo. But remember how huge California is, and 7 counties are affected. San Diego County itself is huge, bigger than a lot of states, and it's mostly working class. So are LA, San Bernardino, Ventura, Orange, etc., on the average.

Things have gone moderately well, though I still don't know why those air tankers weren't sitting on the runways fueled, loaded and engines running Sunday morning. It's Wednesday evening and some of them are just showing up. The state was warning of a huge fire danger a week ahead of time.

But it's not like Katrina was a complete surprise, either. Nor the fact that the levees were going to collapse. I think the lesson is, you don't wait until the storm surge hits or your house is on fire before you decide to evacuate. It's just stuff. Grab your family and get the heck out of Dodge.

Kevin B.

Navy/Marine Corps had helo's ready to go early on but they weren't used due to unavailable observers. Who's fault is that? The aircrew's are trained. We went through the same thing in the 2003 Cedar Fire, helo's and crews weren't used effectively there either.

Billion $ Disaster

First I saw them this year was at Pendleton today, looked fairly effective to me. Still, this was supposed to have been a lesson learned from the Cedar Fire and yet it wasn't really learned, lip service.

The planning is one of the two key parts. The second is, rather than asking what does hit SoCal, it might be easier to ask what doesn't. California and it's people have had a lot of practice at dealing with disasters and crisis, so they know what parts of their plans didn't work last time.

There is another thing that I think is being overlooked. If you say it fast enough, a million people sounds huge. Normally, a crowd of a million IS huge. But what percentage of the effected counties is that?

Oh, I like that, thanks Susan!

And no, not all the money is given by the govt as low interest loans. Some of it is grant money, some of it is free services provided, or free rent, or free food, water, clothing, sundries, etc.

In the big picture of things, it makes sense that the local, state, and federal governments would invest some funding towards community support to mitigate the social chaos and subsequent costs of restraining/controlling the inevitable anarchist fallout. By keeping order through providing for people's basics during and after a major disaster, they headoff a much more expensive outcome. It seems, though that our leaders go too far when there are other mechanisms in place that aren't being utilized fully.

Well said, but unfortunately this is rarely if ever a political priority at any level. Some of this might be mitigated by spreading the message of ETS at the local and community level. Apart from economic and demographic factors (i.e. the effects of poverty and a high crime rate), one of the major lessons that the NO/Katrina fiasco provided was that local and state governments can be extremely inept in handling large scale disasters. Citizens must look out for themselves and each other in order to not simply survive, but also overcome these events.

"Citizens must look out for themselves and each other in order to not simply survive, but also overcome these events."

That was a recognized fact during the Overland Migration to Calif and OR back in the middle of the 1800s.

The pioneers consisted of people from every walk of life in America. Some didn't have enough horses or oxen for the trip, so they tried to cut down on weight (like food). Some didn't have the experience, and had to learn the hard way or die.

But overall, most recognized that they had to take care of themselves. They would work together to get something done, such as getting wagons across the rivers, and pulling stuck wagons out of sloughs, but they really were dependent on themselves and their immediate families.

There were mentions in diaries of one 12-year-old girl who found a baby amid a family dead of cholera. She picked it up and carried it the rest of the way (OR, I think). At every stop, she would go through the people, find a nursing mother, and ask if she would please nurse the baby. NOT ONCE, they say, was she refused.

Sue

I wonder if that being earthquake country had anything to do with preparation?

Maybe the, "Can't happen here" attitude was not as bad because of the frequent reminders from the ground about who is really in charge.

Patrick

More likely it's past fires that serve as the reminder. The Cedar Fire here was devastating and is still current history in San Diego. We've seen these before and anyone who thinks it can't happen here is an idiot.

I'm surprised that so many here appeared to have been caught short and had to pack in literally 10 minutes. When I smelled the smoke Sunday I finished my workout and then went home to finish packing. We never got the evac call.

Thats sounds like good thinking on your part. The fire threat seems really scary to me. Seems like it could be a serious danger in a very short time period.

Here on the Gulf Coast you know when the hurricanes are coming and a general idea of the potential damage.

I am really impressed with the way you folks handled the situation and all pulled together. I havent seen anyone on TV blaming anyone else; or at least the citizen on the street.

I think this is a cynical and shortsighted perspective. The idea that a primary reason for NOLA's Katrina woes was "they wuz jus po' folks so nobody cares" is wrong, IMO.

There are a number of very important differences between the SoCal and NOLA disaster responses, the least of which is "money":

1) SoCal obviously has LEADERSHIP. NOLA was betrayed ultimately by their incompetent mayor and governor, not the eeeeevil Federal government ("George Bush hates po' peoples!").

2) SoCal had planning and a sense that "the big one" really could happen, due to their experiences w/ earthquakes and previous fires. Despite the warnings of a few Cassandras, few thought that NOLA would ever really get hit w/ the big one. Year after year the big storms had veered away, inducing complacency.

3) The NOLA residents most affected by Katrina had adopted a culture of dependency and living off the government teat. This is the ultimate result of the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. policies of the "war on poverty", which (adjusted for inflation & per-capita) really hasn't helped poor people in a statistically significant way. While there is certainly an element of this in SoCal, not everyone there has been infected with the same PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. disease suffered by the majority of the California legislature.

4) The state and Federal agencies learned from NOLA's experience and did a better job this time around. Now they get criticized anyway, as being more interested in "rich" people. It's a no-win situation for them: if they don't do better in SoCal, they get ragged for not learning from past mistakes; if they do better in SoCal, they get ragged for catering to "rich" people.

Personal story: a couple my wife and I know had moved to the Mississippi coast a couple years before the Katrina disaster. The woman got a good job there so they moved. When Katrina happened, they evaced in time and came back here (Atlantic coast) to stay for a while and regroup.

This couple is very liberal politically and they ravaged the "evil" George Bush for his obvious hatred of po' folks. I asked them how they managed to escape. They said "we got in the car and left when things looked bad". I showed them the photos of swamped, unused buses in NOLA and said "the local leaders kept those buses parked and ordered everyone to the dome. Stop being ruled by your emotional politics and embrace reality. Inciting class warfare will only get you so far".

I only half agree with you. Money wasn't the only difference between these two, but it's far from the least important.

First of all, the two disasters aren't really comparable in terms of the amount of destruction and the number of people affected. But given the exact same type of disaster in both areas, I'm sure these California residents affected by the fire would still fare better than the New Orleans residents. I'm not saying that everyone in California is rich, but I would guess that the average California evacuee is probably better off than the average New Orleans resident that was stranded in Katrina. And in this particular type of disaster, money opens up a lot of options that probably weren't available to the NOLA residents. If you think about it, why did the NOLA residents end up in the superdome in the first place? People with the means to leave and the money to get a hotel room probably did so. It's only the stragglers that didn't have that option that ended up in the superdome.

This isn't the huge, widespread EOTW type of event that has people bartering for food and trading ammo, it's just small (relative to Katrina) wildfire where life is still normal for most people. And in everday life, cash is still king.

And to bring up your other points:

1) Socal has leadership - I have not seen any outstanding example of leadership during these fires. Maybe from the fire crews, but what has the government done so far?

2) Socal had planning - We knew the Santa Ana's were coming, just like they do every year, just like NOLA knew katrina was coming. I don't think most people took any extraordinary precautions, and we aren't any better prepared than any other state. If anything, we're probably a little worse than most, because we haven't had a "big one" in a long time. People tend to forget the dangers unless it recurrs every year.

3) NOLA residents were dependent - Yes, they lacked money, was supported by the government. Where was most of the middle class during Katrina? Probably in some other state, far away from the Superdome.

4) Government learned from NOLA - As I said in the first point, I haven't seen any oustanding examples of leadership. There are still complaints of wasted resources, tankers sitting on the ground instead of fighting the fires, crews not communicating. I think Katrina was just too big for anybody to handle, I seriously doubt if another Katrina happened here, they'd be any better prepared than they were before.

Some additional factors for differences between the Katrina and SoCal fires (I agree with most of the other factors identified)/

1. Major highways: There are only one East-West interstate (10/12) and 3 North-South (49, 55 and 55) leading from the NOLA area. And once you get out of the NOLA - Baton Rouge area they're all 4 lanes.

2. Distance to safety/shelter: Katrina evacuees had to go 50+ miles to seek shelter (most had to go 100+ miles).

3. Area/Infrastructure Affected: The fires affect a relatively limited area and infrastructure outside of the immediate areas is not affected. After Katrina, areas a far as 20 miles inland were devastated and infrastructure was damaged in areas more than 200 miles inland. (I live 120 miles from the MS gulf coast and my power was out for 5 days - some nearby areas didn't have power restored for 2 weeks.) Fuel here was in short supply for more than a month after landfall.

4. Leadership (Applies to LA only, MS did and is doing a pretty good job): What can one say about Ray Nagin that hasn't already been said (except why did they re-elect him???). Gov. Kathleen Blanco was a "deer in the headlights" for a week while the feds were asking her to ask for their help (States MUST request assistance from the FedGov - its a Constitutional issue and I agree with it) (and she has lost her re-election campaign). The LA Emergency Management Agency was no where to be seen and I don't know if it's really been seen since. Then there's Congressman William Jefferson, whose district includes the 9th ward, commandeering a National Guard 5-ton truck to save his personal belongings while the water was still rising (the FBI found the $90K in his freezer later) (yeah, they re-elected him, too!).

Access has a lot to do with it. It's fairly easy to move in any directon in SoCal. But if SoCal topography was a bowl with limited escape routes and the fire cut off most escape routes, the end result would have been totally different.

Never mind the poor folks, never mind the poor government of NOLA. New Orleans sits in a river delta, it's built on thousands of feet of soft sand, silt, and clay, it's between six and ten feet under sea level, it's sinking at the approximate rate of three feet every 100 years, and half the population lived in the part that would normally be underwater.

And people on this forum are sneering at rebuilding in CALIFORNIA???

Sue

Very well written AND VERY accurate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although you covered the fact that we have the best politicians that money can buy,,it distresses me that you have overlooked the fine tradition of duty displayed by the NOPD during the Katrina Emergency that once again proved that we have got the best police that money can buy.

It's hard to find anything to be proud of as a Lousy-anna state resident when we are at the bottom (49th or 50th) of every list that ranks states from the best (#1) to the worse (#50)!!!!!

I think building below sea level is foolish. I also think living in a tinder box is foolish. But you can take active steps to reduce the risks in the latter.

Now if only the tinder box would keep from slipping down the hill.... This thing isn't over yet, no matter how much cheering people want to do. Wait until spring.

Thats true about being able to mitigate some of the dangers of living a tinder box. Has anyone heard of "Shelter in Place Communities"? They're (admittedly very expensive) subdivisions with all mason/concrete house exteriors with tile roofs, golf course/fire break around the out side and several other mitigating factors. From what I've heard of these communities, they survived pretty well with the exception of a few houses that were built at the top of draws or other reasonably preventable mistakes. Sounds like a sound idea if you live in the area (and have the money to build your own house).

One thing not often reported about Katrina is that the citizens actually did a pretty good job of evacuating. They probably had a higher percentage leave than you'd see on Texas or Florida. It was the government officials who did nothing and apparently made no preparations - the large majority of the citizens did the right thing, and managed to do it in time.

The result of this is that there was a selection effect: those who remained behind were those unable to care for themselves, or those too trusting of advice from local officials. These are the people who appeared in the news reports.

And SoCal people complaining about lack of leadership there simply don't understand Louisiana, or the fine examples the Mayor and Governor. There are things that could have been done better - why not schedule a call-up of air crews a week earlier when the wind storm was forecast? - but in no way does the official behavior appear to have been as clueless and inept as the Blanco and Nagin show.

+1 , dead on target.