Another attempt at a kid's hiking kit.

Well, here's my latest try to put together a decent kid's hiking kit. As you'll see from the picture, I've put everything into a $10 fanny pack, and it barely fits. Any advice on presenting this to an 8-year old? We're going camping tomorrow night and I plan to go through the kit and explain it to him then.

Small towel.
Small bubble compass and thermometer attached to pack zipper.
MXZ folding saw I picked up at BJ's (Like Costco).
The whistle we bought him at the Columbus OH American Whistle Co.
A Swedish Firesteel Scout. (Should I add some kind of tinder?)
A Gerber Clutch mini-tool.
Emergency Poncho.
Hand warmer packet.
Mylar emergency blanket.

FAK contains Moleskin, small roll duct tape, the other usuals, but
I added (3) chewable Benedryl and an Albuteryl inhaler (he has asthma).

A Nite-Ize-modified Mini-Maglite.
25' of paracord.

Unfortunately the fanny pack is full, but I will also try to squeeze in a granola bar. He also has a Petzl LED headlamp and a 32oz Nalgene drink bottle he'll be carrying, and I expect he'll have his camera on his belt also. Are Micropur tablets too dangerous for him to carry? How do I explain that he has to treat or boil any water he comes across?

Thanks in advance. -Gary

I suppose a lot of it has to do with what he knows how to do. For example, what do you intend for him to do with the paracord? It's useful stuff, but I wouldn't expect him to be able to build a shelter or rappel down a cliff in an emergency at his age. I'd say extra food would be a higher priority. Tell him not to snack on his emergency rations (vbg).

Ditto the saw and the firesteel. He can break small stuff with his hands and feet, so he doesn't really need the saw. And a Bic lighter is easier for anyone to start a fire with. Your idea of adding tinder is a good one.

I'd add spare batteries for the flashlight. Make sure he wears a hat with a brim. Also, depending on the weather you may want to add a small tube of sunscreen. I'd think he's old enough to learn not to eat the Micropur tabs. Other than that they're safe. After all, you're supposed to drink them. He can probably also understand about the nasty bugs in the water.

I've never really carried a towel hiking. I do carry a bandana, though. You might save some space by substituting.

If there's any spare room, an extra pair of socks are very, very important.

Sounds like a great trip. You guys have fun.

Kevin B.

I'd say lose the MXZ saw, unless both of you have tried to cut wood with it an found it acceptable. I'd also replace both space blanket and emergency poncho with one better quality poncho. The higher quality poncho will be a much better/longer lasting/warmer shelter than the space blanket and cheap poncho.

-Blast

Digimark...

Awesome Kit for an 8 Yr old! I think you have thought it out well and put it together nicely.

I do, however, agree with Kevin on a few points.

#1 - Lose the saw. It is too dangerous. If it slips while he is using it he will probably get hurt. At 8, however, he could probably begin to use and carry a small knife.

#2 - The thermometer and compass, while nice, are probably not a necessity. If you DO decide to keep them, I would put them inside the pack. You and I understand equipment, but an 8 yr old will throw his pack down and break them quickly.

#3 - If he isn't proficient with the fire steel (ie: can find wild tinder, throw the spark, and get it to flame 3 times out of 4), exchange it for a lighter or windproof matches. If he is old enough to use fire I would add a "Pink Lady Candle" where the saw used to be. Light, security, warmth.

#4 - I would love to see a laminated "cheat sheet" on what to do and how to use the kit. Especially on the usage of the meds included. Remember, in an emergency sometimes it is hard to think clearly.

#5 - A family picture... This would give comfort and encouragement in an emergency. Write "We Love you" on the picture and laminate it.

#6 - I would drop the towel and add a white, yellow, or orange bandana. We teach our own children and younger students that if lost.. they should tie the bandana/ or their T-Shirt to a long stick, hoist it in the air, and sit down under the nearest tree (preferrably coniferous). The towel (yellow I see) could be used the same, but the bandana would be easier to tie on and would take less space. They should then blow their whistle 3 times every few mins. This is imparative advice for any youngster lost in the "Woods".

Above all things Gary, make sure that you take the time to explain all of the items and their usage to your son. Make that one of the goals of your trip. You sound like an awesome dad, and I am sure you will both have a wonderful time!

- Soarn

I think the kit looks good, and I'd agree with the advice I've seen so far.

My first suggestion would be to find out what you can about the Hug-a-Tree program. Hug-a-Tree page
They've been working on updating their program for more than a year now, and to the best of my knowledge, they don't yet have the new version up and running, but the basics are very simple to acquaint yourself with. Google searches will come up with other sites with a better overview of the program.

Basically, they tell the child that when you realize you're lost, you should stop, find a nice tree (or boulder, other large unmoving object), and stay there. Shelter yourself as needed, use your whistle to blow series of three blasts, answer when you hear people calling for you. Stay in place. You have hundreds of friends looking for you, and no one will be mad you got lost. Grownups get lost every day. Stay in place.

For gear, they go very simple. They suggest a large garbage bag or two, and a whistle. Stop hypothermia, get found. Water is a good step, a flashlight too.

Some additional suggestions. Many have noted how frequently adults deceive themselves and rationalize to avoid admitting they are lost. Cody Lundin had a great way to explain to a child how you know you're lost. He said, "You should tell Junior, 'if you look up and you realize that you want to come back to mommy or daddy, and you don't know how to do that, that means you're lost.' "

Fear of being alone is totally natural, even among adults. Lundin went on to say "I think it's psychologically important for a kid to know that he's going to have people looking for him -- not at the end of the three-day camping trip, but that night, before it's dark, and that it's been agreed upon by the family."

Another suggestion from Lundin (and Doug Ritter) is to let children know that when they're in the woods and need help, the usual "stranger danger" rules do not apply. Even adults lost in the woods can get disoriented and frightened, and there are examples of adults not responding to searchers, and even hiding from them out of fear. If children hear their name being called, they should respond.

I think the fact that you've talked this over with your son, and hopefully practiced, put him way ahead of the curve. Reinforcing that he will be found and that he has a job to do to help it happen helps keep him focused. On a recent camping trip, my 5-year-old's first, I had him carrying a very similar fanny pack, his "Hug-a-Tree Pack." The pack stayed on a short branch near the fire pit, and his job was to put it on every time he was walking away from the central fire pit area. Repetition made it a habit for him.

Have a great trip

Dave

First thoughts:

The MXZ saw has received less than wonderful reviews, particularly in wood. If you're going to give him a saw, let him have a real one, not one that makes adults cry and stomp and say naughty words. (Or in the case of my brother, take it to the firing range for summery execution.)

He's eight? Does he know how to safely start a fire? Learning that should be rewarded with the firesteel. Red poncho + whistle + heat pack should get him found fast enough.

Water tablets and little kids... Not knowing him, I'll err on the side of caution and say that this is one of the few times were one of the filter straws might come in handy. Or better, set him up with one of the bottles with the filter built into it.

And from the way you said it, the whistle is probably special to him. So I'm going to reluctantly go into ogre mode, and say that he should have something pealess.

If you have the time and the green, the mylar sheet upgrades well to a Heatsheet. Normally I'd recommend the bivy version, but it doesn't breath so well if he curls up at the bottom of it.

A family picture, with names, address and telephone number on the back of it.

Also, do you know how the buttpack rides on him? Does it feel comfortable, and not migrate to his ankles? A small day pack might be better.

When I put together the kits for the 4H group that we started, I used a small kids sized backpack instead of a fanny pack. The kids were 5 when they were presented to them, and they have used it for almost 1 1/2 to 2 years now. They "personalize" it by adding their own stuff and you may find the fanny pack might not expand with their needs.

I agree with my fellow ETSers. I purposely left out all chemicals and meds and left the for the parents of each child to deal with. I also left out fire starting materials.

If I may, I would suggest a signal mirror in addition to the whistle. For sharps, I gave them each a rounded tip scissors and a nail clipper. I have found that the kids use the flashlight, magnifying glass, and pen & pad the most plus the personal stuff they take. The second tier usage items have been the first aid kit, hand cleaner, sun screen, compass, bandana and whistle. They have used the poncho once or twice. And I agree with Blast, get something better. I went the cheap route because I was outfitting a group and trying not to go broke. For our group, they each have a little illustrated instruction booklet that also has each parents' names and phone numbers on it.

In my opinion, it is more important to teach them the right stuff than to give them the right stuff, but both are good. Congratulations on your efforts so far and good luck on the never ending quest to improve your kit (and knowledge).

I do agree with other's comments about removing the saw and firesteel (except if he really knows how to use it to make a fire ; then add tinder !);
AFAIK, the main idea when a kid gets lost is for him to STAY PUT !
Then he will need whistle and possibly mirror to signal his position and shelter to stay warm while waiting for rescue. IMHO, a cheap poncho and a cheap space blanket do not fit the bill.
I second Ironraven idea to replace the space blanket by a Heatsheet blanket or Bivvy (hope he is old enough to use it correctly and not suffocate inside it !).

Hi Gary,

Here's a link to our children's survival kit with some commentary and instruction in the right column. Many of the items and concepts have already been brought up but you still might find something useful.

Children's Survival Kit

The pack strikes me as more appropriate for an adult (or at least a teenager). I would eliminate the paracord, compass/thermometer, fire starter, and multi-tool, and focus on the basics: water, food, warmth. Paracord just doesn't seem like something that should be on the must list for an eight year old's small waistpack.

I would pack:
Water.
Food (when my son was small we packed his waistpack with a couple of kid's snack bars, a package of peanut butter crackers or a packet of nuts, and some comfort food such as gummy bears)
Warmth: fleece cap, poncho or the ever reliable large plastic bag, and gloves if there is room
Light: flashlight
Whistle

The idea of laminating some "Hug-a-Tree" directions and adding a family photo with "We love you" is great.

I agree with the above posts --more 'basics,' fewer tools.

You might start with a kid sized pack (w reflective tape!) wpacked ith a light jacket and room for a 1/2 sized water bottle. Then attach the whistle permantely to the zipper fob, ditto with a coin cell type flashlight.

Warmth : you may add disposable Hand warmers ....

Thanks for the advice, everyone. We came back from our camping trip. The firesteel worked amazingly well -- my son got the the hang of it and started our campfire with it. (Although it does make a difference if you strike using the UP side of the metal drag. Nor sure why.) So that was an unqualified success. Even my wife is telling her friends how well that worked. We used the campsite fire ring, so we still have to practice using an "in-the-forest" made-up fire pit, so he'll know not to burn the forest down.

The original items I picked were definitely more appropriate for an adult than a child. I was thinking this would be something he could grow into, but of course there's no reason not to add to or supplement as he gets older and more capable. D'oh.

The MKZ "saw" sucked. It made great sawdust powder, but it took ten minutes for them to cut down about 1 1/2" and they gave up before I had to tell them to. I guess it would be better than nothing if you had no other choice, but just barely, and not for a kid. Gone even before I read your advice.

Here's what I'm taking away from your advice:

1. I've visited the Hug-A-Tree page and the Childrens Survival kit page and will incorporate those ideas.

2. The paracord, saw, space blanket and most of the FAK is gone. From the FAK, I'm leaving some bandaids, bug bite wipes, the ointment and the Benedryl/inhaler I added. And I'll put some MP1 tabs in, but we're going to try them first. The stuff I'm taking out can always be added back later if desired.

3. I'm adding the tinder (he knew to look in his pockets for lint -- we had watched Survivorman together. How's that for impressive?!) and the bandanna. I'll work on an instruction card and laminate our picture to the other side of it.

4. The reflective tape is a neat idea.

5. In hindsight a small backpack would be more useful. I'll stick with the fanny packs for now just because we already have them. He wore his seemingly OK but if it were lighter/less full, I'm certain he'd be happier about it.

6. Put food in.

I'll write back with a picture of the results and the instruction card writings asap.

Thanks for the after-action report. Good to see what worked and what didn't.

If you're looking for something to replace your saw, I've had really good luck with the Gerber/Fiskars Sport Saw. I got several of these years ago, and have one in each car and one in the garage.

Gerber Fiskars Sports Saw

Very aggressive teeth, stores well inside the very hard plastic/resin handle, and it's a very handy size. Only weak points I see to it is that you use that orange nut to tighten the blade into place feels like it may someday fail to snug down, or perhaps strip threads if used too roughly, and I take care about bending/flexing the blade too much when I'm sawing. That said, it goes right through branches in the 3-4 inch diameter range, and I've gone through bigger stuff when large branches were downed in my back yard by cutting at an angle to get a wedge out, then sawing straight through the remainder.

Anyway, thanks again for the update, and would love to hear how well the changes work out.

Dave

First draft at a kid's instruction sheet. It doesn't show it in the posting, but all caps and the first line of each numbered paragraph are bolded. Also, I haven't formatted this into a card yet -- I want to get the wording right first. Comments please. -Gary

---------------------------------------------------------------

FROM Mommy & Daddy, if you need it…

1. STOP. Sit down. DON’T PANIC. If you don’t know where we are, and you don’t know where you are, you’re lost. It’s OK – it happens. We wish you weren’t, but you are, and now you have to think and do things to help us get you home safe. FIRST THINGS FIRST: STAY WHERE YOU ARE. Moving around will only get you more lost. WE WILL COME TO FIND YOU. STAY THERE.
2. THINK. Don’t do anything until you’ve thought it through.
3. OBSERVE (LOOK AROUND). How long before it gets dark? Is it cold, hot, or OK? Are you thirsty or hungry? What do you have with you that you can use?
4. PLAN. Until we come to find you, what can you do to help wait? Without walking around, what can you do to help us hear and see you?
5. Am you hurt? Use band-aids, wipes and ointment to clean and cover cuts and scrapes.
6. If it’s cold, stay warm. Put on your hat, gloves and jacket – whatever you may have. But don’t let yourself sweat – sweat can make you colder. Use the poncho and hand warmer to cover up and keep warm.
7. Blow on your whistle. Three shorts blows – WHISTLE WHISTLE WHISTLE tells anyone that hears, that you’re lost and need help. (Don’t blow three whistles unless you’re lost!)
8. If it’s sunny, use the signal mirror. Aim through the hole so that the flash "dances" on the plane in the sky or off in the distance.
9. Save your food and water for as long as you can. Once its gone, you won’t have any more until we find you, so try to make it last.
10. If there is water nearby, you must not drink it unless you know its clean. Fill your water bottle up and then put ONE water pill in it. WAIT AT LEAST ONE HOUR BEFORE YOU DRINK IT.
11. If it begins to rain, cover yourself with your rain poncho. Zip up your clothes, and try to get under as much cover as you can to stay dry. But if you do get wet, don’t worry -- you’ll be OK, You can dry off afterward.
12. We may not find you until after it gets dark. If that happens, you’ll have to stay where you are in the dark. It’s OK. Stay covered under your poncho, as warm as possible. If you’re still cold, you can stuff leaves into your jacket and pants to add more insulation. Noises you hear are just that – noises. So try not to let them spook you. And you might want to make a fire…
13. How to make a fire:
a. Clear a flat area of ground. Take all the branches, leaves, rocks, everything away so nothing will burn unless you want it to. We don’t want to start a forest fire! Look up to make sure there are no low-hanging tree limbs.
b. If you can find some rocks nearby, gather them and make a fire ring in the center of the cleared area. Try not to use wet rocks – the heat can make them explode!
c. Gather as many dead branches and fallen pieces of wood as you can, at least two arm-loads. Don’t pull branches off the trees unless you have to. You’ll need two types – stuff like dry brown leaves that you can use to get the fire going, and heavier, thicker branches that will keep the fire going for a while.
d. Build it into a pile in the middle of your fire ring. Push some of your tinder under the pile, and use your firesteel to start the fire. Slowly feed it wood. Once you’ve run out, you won’t have a fire until you can find more wood, so do your best to keep it going as long as possible. You may have to gather
10 to 12 armloads of branches to last the night. It doesn’t have to be bright and super-hot to be a good fire.
e. Don’t breathe in the smoke. Be careful not to dangle your clothes too close to the fire – you don’t want them to catch on fire.
f. When it’s light again, make sure the fire’s out as best you can.
g. AND ALWAYS – DON’T FORGET – IF YOU"RE NOT CAREFUL YOU CAN GET BURNED. So BE CAREFUL!
14. Keep looking at our family picture. WE ARE COMING TO FIND YOU. Don’t lose hope, and stay safe.

digi -- nice start. My first impression is that its way too lon. You are trying to teach on this card - instead you should be trying to get the kid not to panic and stay in one place. That's it.

teacher

My rough edit below


STOP. Sit down. .

STAY WHERE YOU ARE.

WE WILL COME TO FIND YOU. STAY THERE.


6. If it’s cold, stay warm. Put on your hat, gloves and jacket – whatever you may have. But don’t let yourself sweat – sweat can make you colder. Use the poncho and hand warmer to cover up and keep warm.

7. Blow on your whistle. Three shorts blows – WHISTLE WHISTLE WHISTLE tells anyone that hears, that you’re lost and need help. (Don’t blow three whistles unless you’re lost!)


11. If it begins to rain, cover yourself with your rain poncho. Zip up your clothes, and try to get under as much cover < my note : 'what does 'cover ' mean to an 8 year old? what you mean to say is ' gst under a tree'>
as you can to stay dry.

Keep looking at our family picture. WE ARE COMING TO FIND YOU. stay right where you are..

love mom & dad ( and barkley the dog)

I'm with teacher. The whole kit that we made up was to encourage the child to stay put, drink water, not get too hot or too cold, and to give them something to do while staying put including actively signally with their whistle, mirror, flashlight, etc.

I also have told our kids since they usually do outdoor stuff in a group that if they get lost, to take turns signalling while they wait in one spot.

Oh yeah, we also tell them to stay put on the trail unless it is dangerous to do so.

I'm working on some cheap kits Aloha, and I read through your previous thread for ideas as well. I've searched and searched, checked my bookmarks and for the life of me can't find this... I'm looking for the $1 LED coin-cell keychain flashlights. They look like a cheapo Photon, but for my purposes, that's plenty. I seem to recall them being sold in lots of 10. Does anyone remember these and have a link?

Thanks!

Check eBay. Many offers like 13 for $10 shipped. Just bought such a lot for presents. Very good quality, continuous and momentary modes.

CountyComm had them.

What Raven said. I got mine from countycomm.com.

I figured I would post this up. This was my brother's pack from when he was around 8 years old and we were working on outdoor skills.



Pack itself is an old platypus style bag I had. There's a few feet of braided rope on the outside.



The front part kept his water bottle (and snacks). The flashlight and the "My First Victorinox" knife went in his pocket, but afterwards they would go in his pack for storage.



In the back part was a ziplock bag with his emergency/practice gear:



A big black trashbag in s ziplock bag, a "Pocket Medic" first aid kid, two MP-1 tabs, two bandannas, a compass, and a poncho. As well as a SAK classic SD, mag-block, and whistle on a chain.

[He liked the mag bar better than a firesteel, said it was easier for him to hold. He never used the magnesium part of it though. Also, I added Dougs whistle in place of what was in there, since it seems to have gone missing.]

-------
It wasn't really perfect, but he picked most of the stuff out himself and he felt comfortable using it, so I thought that was more important to start.

Right off the bat, I would have added a signal mirror, a metal cup (to boil water), another light with spare batteries, some kind of tinder material (maybe a candle as well), and maybe some gloves (he usually had a hat)

Anyway, by the time he could use everything in there effectively he was already changing things out on his own, trying new stuff, stealing my stuff, ect. At that point I was just making sure he was adding equel or better stuff and still had the basics covered. I know, for me, part of the fun of learning was trying out new things on my own and seeing what I did and didn't like.

Now I don't even need to help him, he's pretty good at picking out his own gear. Unfortunately, he likes borrowing mine better most of the time. Now that it's getting cold out he's become a "video game hermit", but I'll get him outside again when I come home for spring/summer.

Perfect... and for whatever reason, that's the only site I don't have bookmarked! www.countycomm.com Thanks guys!

I would replace the firesteel with a lighter. Far easier to use. Use the best technology to do the job.
cheers