Concerning the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”

As far as we can tell, definition means “honest description”. There are many creative and intelligent ways to phrase honest descriptions. One of our definitions for the phrase “survival kit”, and one which we feel quite reasonable, is “a kit containing the items necessary to ensure survival is a distinct possibility in basic worst-case (life-threatening) scenarios”. And yet, subpar definitions seem to be all the rage these days.
A currently popular definition of “survival kit” seems to be “to increase the likelihood of successfully performing certain tasks which might or might not be part and parcel to the livability of an ideally anticipated survival situation.” Definitions such as these are easily thought of as the design criteria for many popular “survival kits” that include such things as travel sewing kits, pencil and paper, and of course fishhooks. The one that comes immediately to mind is the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”. Kits such as these do not adequately address the needs of many basic survival situations, such as amputation, snakebite, hypothermia, dehydration, self-defense, etc. Our thinking would have our survival kit address the most fundamental survival concepts, ensuring that immediate basic life-saving first-aid needs and immediate subsistence needs can be met.
On the other hand, we do not feel that the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit” has no place in society. Instead we believe that in order for the charm of the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit” to survive in this highly competitive and ever-changing world, it is necessary to understand that if such kits are to serve any real purpose at all, they must serve as nothing more than the idea-goal for what we all think would make an ideal kit. The space constraint is obviously the number one priority for this hypothetical design challenge, as it “must” fit into an average sized shirt or pants pocket. This priority assumes that the kit is also lightweight, and lightweight is necessarily implied as the number two priority. Imagine that, a survival kit that fits in a shirt pocket! Wow! Hold on. Remember that this representation, this “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”, does greatly rely upon compromise with regards to our definition of “survival kit”. Simply stated, we do not at this time possess the miniaturization technology necessary to fit all the items necessary to a true survival kit inside of an Altoids Tin. Maybe when the year 3058 rolls around, our inventiveness will give us the ability to create boxes lined with energy fields to the effect that all things placed within them suddenly shrink down to 1/20th of their original size. But as of course we all know and realize full well, as of today, a truly viable “Altoids Tin Survival Kit” remains but a sci-fi fantasy. Thus, the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit” cannot be thought of as able to serve our purposes with regards to our definition(s) of “survival kit”.
So, we have arrived at the professional opinion, that is, it is our opinion here at TQS, that since an Altoids tin cannot possibly be lair to the basic items we feel are necessary to provide for immediate basic life-saving first aid needs and immediate subsistence needs, the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit”, should more honestly be described as being the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit Design Challenge for a Sci-Fi Inspired Future”. Blah, blah, blah...
I’m not just kidding! I have a little survival kit dream of my own. I actually wanted to tell you all that I could have woken up this morning to find that my left thumbnail might actually be hinged and I thought that if I discover the mechanism, I will lift it to find it reveals a slight hollow containing all my survival essentials neatly organized in a color-coded manner, and to my joy I will realize that all the extra survival kit I need to carry in a pocket, or better yet, around a short length of paracord around my neck, are the fine-point tweezers necessary to grasp the tiny items when needed. Ha, ha, ha!!!

Does this mean you intend to carry more than just a knife?

Sue

i think of the "Altoids Tin Kit" as a Lost Kit and not
survival..unless you take survival down to it's lowest
possible meaning--like huddling by a fire untill the
rescue team hears you blowing the whistle--days later--
which of course is better that the dogs sniffing you out
weeks later..

Sue,
Despite your very keen insight into the machismo of my ideal caveman thong and stone knife setup, yes, I do plan on having more than just a knife in my survival kit. I would like to carry only my midget, but she doesn't come with a cellphone or a personal locator beacon, so I'll have to elaborate quite a bit to effectualize my kit to keep with real-world ambitions.

Sure, I'd rather have my daypack with me, but given the choice, I'd rather have my Altoids tin than nothing. I suspect it's the "nothing" that could be the killer.

Of course, if I could, a fully-equipped, packed to the roof SUV would be better than the daypack. But, like it or not, sometimes we just have to draw the line somewhere.

Sue

Reading your post twice, I concluded somebody took a multitool and indeed bent your fingernail back.A rosary does not a Cathedral make, but it is every bit as valid an expression of faith in a catholic's salvation. That Altoid kit assembled with agonised consideration and search for peer approval and validation on multiple survial forums is our rosary. And like the one cell amoeba in microcosm duplicating the macrocosm of the universe it is in and of itself complete and whole and functional. You just have to face Nature and her fellow critics and remind them " I am big. It's the pictures that got small. then shove Bear aside and tell Mr DeMille your ready for your closeup.

Along the lines of the thumbnail idea:
Galton in his victorian book 'the art of travel' recommends having a doctor sew some diamonds under your skin. Then when you are lost in Africa you can buy your way out of anything.
simon

I carry a kel-tec .32 caliber on me most all the time. It weighs 6.6 ounces empty and just under ten ounces fully loaded. I often think it would be nice to have a .45 the same size, but I know "it ain't happenin". I would like to have a lot more on me if a difficult situation arose, but that is often times not possible. Yes, I have kits in my car, probably enough to start my own town, much less make it through the night, but the concept I have settled on is "can I make it home" with what I have on me. I commute 52 miles one way and have often thought could I walk home from work if I had to? I attend and am very active in a church 17 miles from home and again same thought.
The "can I make it home" concept made the biggest difference in planning a psk or altoids kit. When I started reading the forum several years ago (I recently, finally joined) I was overwhelmed with the contents of so many kits and so many ideas on preparedness. I could not narrow it down to one small kit. Now I feel confident that I could "make it home" with what I have on me. Yes, depending on the scenario, that could change, but if I decided to just get out and "hoof it" then I know I would see my wife and daughter in a couple of days.

The main failings of the 'Altoids Tin Survival Kit' is that they have no means of supplying a dose of common sense. DR's survival instructions go a long way to help though.

Lets take each Survival Situation you've mentioned.

Amputation - Why would you want to cut one of your appendages off unless your suffering from apotemnophilia (minefields and IEDs aside).

Snakebite - You haven't been looking where you are going but again the simple medical kit in the 'Altoids Tin Survival Kit' could help save your life i.e. razor or sugical blade, sewing kit, cordage, painkillers and antibiotics.

Hypothermia - There is no such thing as bad weather only the wrong type of clothing although the ability to light a fire can compensate somewhat. i.e matches, firesteel etc. A wire saw can also help provide a means to build a shelter along with a good knife.

Dehydration - To go unprepared into Desert or the Arctic regions shows a real lack of preperation, which itself is should supplement the dose of common sense (not supplied with any 'Altoids Tin Survival Kit'). The 'Altoids Tin Survival Kit' should provide a means of carrying and sterilising water. i.e Condoms etc.

Self Defence - In the wilderness, self defence is not really an issue.

Self-amputation is something that happens. Just look at the story of Aron Ralston.

Cutting into a snake bite or applying a tourniquet are two of the 'what not to do' things in the case of a snake bite...I have no idea what you'd need a sewing kit for in regards to a snake bite.

I agree. A fire is about the best thing you're going to get out of a kit like this...hopefully you're not the one with hypothermia or it could be hard to saw wood for a fire.

Again I agree.

Unless you get jumped by a Cougar...

Sorry to play devils advocate.

"...having a doctor sew some diamonds under your skin..."

Bad guys can read too (at least some of them). I am not keen on the idea of having some local decide to remove my under the skin hideout with a rusty machete...

Regardless of the size of your "survival Kit" it is not to ensure your survival nothing can do that. A "Survival Kit's" purpose is to supplement your edc and survival skills and knowledge. A small kit will give a knowledgeable person an edge that he or she would other wise not have. My only concern is one that I have previously voiced which is that I have noticed a pattern with people they have a tendency to rely to heavily rely on equipment rather than skills.

Raydarkhorse, spot on!

how many folks buy a kit and never practice with it. There is a false sense of security. they feel if they have a kit they're GTG. simply having a paperclip, alluminum foil, and chewing gum doesn't make one Macgyver.

Alan

It doesn't? Even if I buy one of these?

1) If you're an Aron Ralston type of person, you're probably a Darwin Awards poster child, anyway, so why drag out the inevitable?

2) For snakebite, you mainly need to get to a hospital. And where you get bitten makes a difference, too. In a vein? Bye-bye!

3) If you have a means of making fire and don't do so, waiting until you're hypothermic, see #1 above.

4) Dehydration can happen in more places than the desert. Lack of a container can be a really big issue if you find water, and then have no way to transport it. All the water is frozen? Again you would need a fire and a container.

5) Most animal predators don't like fire. Start several fires and sit in the middle, or make a couple with your back to a really big rock.

So, for the situations listed, a Altoids tin with a lighter, an oven roasting bag, and a leg of pantyhose would help you survive.

And they give you a mindset that you CAN do something to help yourself, rather than just wandering around like an idiot, crying in the wilderness.

Sue, Devil's Advocate and SideKick, 3rd Grade

So how do they fit MacGyver into that little box?

Sue

Hacksaw, that is a brilliant reply. I damn near fell over!

Your post very accurately points out the risk of being too smug about any small PSK.

That being said, I think in most of the scenerios we can imagine, a few useful items in one's pocket can take survival from a mere possibility to an actual probability.

Frank2135

An interesting video is available here at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCkFhafk26A

It deals with an attack by a tiger, an amputated leg and the calm medical response of a British Army Doctor in South Africa.

Interesting essay. I'm in favor of 'checking our thinking' often.

An Altiods kit has several assumptions, among them that:
1) You'll have it
2) Some stuff is better than no stuff and
3. You have some knowledge/ training

I agree that its not enough for every situation, but it is an excellent collection of useful gear that fits in a tin.

an alternate suggestion -- lets call it an altiods tin kit*

(* best when supplemented by appropriate gear.)

teacher

The "Altoid" type kits are the children of the old WWII survival tins used especially by the SAS. The kit was designed to have bare essentials, tools and materials to make an escape, evade and survive. It is a bare minimum not to replace a rucksack full of gear.
In today's application the Altoid kit or pocket survival kit is again a bare minimum to supplement other gear in say a backpack. If one were to lose or get separated from their pack/gear the survival tin would supply items to replace ones in the pack and cover at least some basics.
In the case of many PSKs fire and tools are these basics. So yes a PSK is not a be all end all survival kit but it is a bare bones everything else has failed or been lost survival kit.
Go check out or reread Doug's great articles. He describes many layers of survival gear a pilot (he is a pilot..) should have and what is in his pockets (EDC) is the very last and thinnest layer.

For others their last layer may be a lighter and a knife. For others it is a whole lot more. The Altoid tin is for the whole lot more aspect.
Bill

Sigh.

Look what MacGyver could do with a paperclip!

My regular Altoids tin (2.5x3.5x.75" ID) can hold
* 100 paperclips (the large ones, just under 2") (And YES, I did just count them!)
* a flat Brand-X lighter
* 6 quarters
* Some TinderQuik
* A single-edge razor blade
* 3 BandAids
* 2 safety pins
* 6 fishhooks & a swivel

And it even CLOSES!

Now, if you can't survive a cold night in the mountains, amputate your leg from the cougar attack, dowse for water, and signal for help with all that gear, you're just plain hopeless, and you know what you're going to be nominated for, don't you!!!

And don't whine that you can't practice amputations... there isn't a family alive that can't spare a couple of relatives -- you've all got some meth junkies, "funny" uncles, nasty aunts, not to mention a sibling or two you wouldn't miss. And if you really don't (I mean REALLY), I've got a sister you can have. (Silent bidding, cash only, small denominations.)

Sheesh! What wimps!

Sue

Large constricting snakes can give very servere lacerations when they bite, the sewing kit and scalpel blade would be useful in tidying and sewing up the wound.

Cordage would be useful in the process of Pressure immobilisation

From Wikipedia

Painkillers are useful to control pain and therefore reduce stress in the casualty making it easier to determine if the bite was dry or not and antibiotics are useful to fight infection caused by bacteria being introduced sub dermally due to deep puncture wounds.

"...100 paperclips (the large ones, just under 2") (And YES, I did just count them!)..."

Sue, Sue, Sue, you've gotta get a life

As with most actors, he is a little guy. Probably left handed too...

First, I love the use of the royal we. People think I'm arrogant, but you might have just taken the lead. That's just down right pompous.

Second, I don't think anyone ever accused a PSK of being a fully equipped kit unless they are intentionally trying to dismiss something whose role they don't understand. It is not intended as a full kit, but as a supplement, in much the way a pocket knife can not replace a fixed blade of robust design. Anything that can fit in the pocket or miniaturised, be is a pocket knife, a pocket calculator, a laptop computer or a PSK, is a compromise favoring the skill of the user. Forgetting that, or forcing a tool to be more than it is, is not a negative reflection on the tool or it's designer, but it's user.

By your reasoning and requirements we can not fit "all the items necessary to a true survival kit" into any portable package, as you seem to be implying that a kit should also contain a sufficiency of air, water, gravity, fuel, shelter, food, medical support (with trained medical staff), et al. Where would you draw the limit? A PSK is at the top end about 20 cubic inches; at the other end, I don't bother with packs over 3500 cubic inches. You carry the gear that you can fit within the limits of what you are willing to carry. Personally, I find the claim that a PSK is too little to be a very interesting statement from someone who once said that most PSKs had too many items.

Which is it? Too many items, or not enough? You can't have both.

It's been raining, and I'm waiting for someone to call to tell me when I start training on my new job.

Yes, I could be doing housework, but then I would have to do it all over again next year, so why bother? Besides, I don't want to wear out the vacuum.

Sue

Who is "We". Voices?

Call it whatever you want, you have to admit: Something is better than nothing.

While I haven't played around with the Altoids Tin Kits in few years, I have to agree with people who think they can be useful. After all, a button compass, mini-bic, wire saw, whistle, and small locking pocket knife (like the GERBER SLT for instance) will easily fit in an Altoids Tin. Right there it gives the potential for navigation, shelter, fire and signalling. I won't even fall back on "its better then nothing", simply put you'll always have it on you and it increases your chances for survival exponentially. Does it serve all survival needs, no, but with five very small tools, being hypothermic and lost are admirably taken care of. And that, more then anything, is the basics of most survival situations.

My pocket kit is essentially an Altoid tin kit without the Altoid tin..but I don't refer to my kit as a 'survival kit'. It's just my pocket kit. I think that's appropriate seeing how I use my kit on a regular basis but rarely for survival situations.

The irony is that I usually use mine to help others who are completely unprepared for everyday life rather than myself.

How about we just use the practical survival kit definition “a kit designed to make an emergency survival situation easier”? Under this definition, the kit could be as small as a keyring or large as a steel storage container.


Altoids tin kits are not designed to address every possible survival situation. In fact, I do not think you could address every possible survival situation even with the space of a steel storage container. Altoids kits are designed for one thing: to supplement other EDC gear in serving as an interim replacement in case you get separated from the primary pack/gear/kit you had with you. If you thought your life was saved by an Altoids tin from the get go, you grossly missed the point.

This idea, as well as the whole Altoids Tin Kit debate reminds me of something I read once about ninja. Whether this is legend or fact, I like the concept of "roku gu", tools for traveling. It was a set of 6 or 7 items that were often carried when traveling. Each one served a purpose and most served several purposes. The only tool I remember was a stone stylus used to leave inconspicuous, but necessary messages for other friendlies that would follow behind. I guess reading about that inspired me to start my EDC habits.

I used to talk about the psychological boost of having kit. Even a few choice items at hand can remind someone that they have a modicum of control in an out of control situation. No, not every want can be met, but most vital needs (at least in the short term). I think often some people interchange the concepts of "survival" and "comfortable temporary displacement". Sure, I'd rather have a Heatsheets Bivy on a cold night outside, but a well built fire will more times than not stave off hypothermia. My teeth my chatter all night long, but at least I'm less likely to freeze to death. The bivy would help and be more comfortable, but the fire will get the job done.

It's like the concept of hollowing out a toothpick and storing three yards of dental floss in it. The chase for the ideal and smallest kit is fun for some of us. The challenge of putting together a kit that has the smallest (useful) and fewest number of items to get by is fun, but it's also a good thinking exercise. It encourages me to think of how many different needs can be met with one tool. It's a way of "thinking outside the tin". And that, as most of us agree, is the most important survival tool...a knowledgeable, adaptable and creative mind.

My EDC is constantly changing. I carry some items I think will be useful, go months without ever using them, so I ditch them and try something else...or nothing else. EDC, survival/comfort kits will never be perfect. Murphy's Law will almost always find a way to poke a hole in your best laid plans (and best planned kits). But the important thing is that we...and I think I can safely say "we", have decided that we will not let the unexpected catch us unprepared. We choose to assert as much control as we can. And we will not go gently into that dark night.

I think i am going to try that. That way I can buy a truck and take it with me everywhere, increasing pollution, which in turn will increase the likelihood of me actually being able to use my stuff, if I can find it among the stuff for alien invasions, tornadoes, and the ocean drying up.

-Jace

Go with a van and save space by combining the Alien Invasion gear with the Zombie Uprising gear.

Yes, the van is better than the truck, as you don't have to go outside and expose yourself to zombies, acid fog, and taser attacks.

This fact came to me one dark night when I had to leave a campground in my pajamas. I climbed into the seat, turned the key that was already in the ignition, turned on the headlights and left.

Sue

I blame Doug Ritter.
He fubar'd big time when he designed the RSK Mk1-3 without a built in time/space warp for us to stash the rest of the kit in.

Seriously:

To me an Altoids tin kit is the equivalent of a hollow handled knife kit.

In mine I have:
5 needles (assorted)
2 plasters.
1 Silva S.E.R.E. compass (luminous).
1 single edged razor.
Assorted split-shot.
6' cord.
1 spark-lite.
13 tinder-quick as 10 bagged and 3 loose (ready use).
10' high strength sewing thread.
1 ultrasound probe cover (unlubricated condom).
2 sheets rite-in-the-rain paper.
9 MP-1 tablets.
4' wire.
24 hooks of various sizes.
1 rubber jig lure.
20' 12kg fishing line.
36' of fly-fishing backing line.

I tend to have other things around me like:
Knife,
Multi-tool.
2-6 15' lengths of 550 cord.
E.D.C. ring.

Clothing as dictated by the weather. Mostly cold and wet.
Other tools and kit.

One thing that I do disagree about is the appropriateness of a fishing kit. Some people think that you don't need one. I don't completely agree with that.

Given that hooks can be used to catch birds etc as well as fish I tend towards the attitude that you should consider carefully before leaving them out. If you do carry them, carry a lot. Most effective methods of fishing (trot lines etc) require at least 5 hooks per set up. And you want to set 3 or 4 lines.

The main complaint here is that micro-kits are not capable of handling major emergencies and long-term survival. The other point the plural-speaking topic maker makes seems to be...These kits would work better in a Bradbudy-esque future world?

The goal of an 'Altoids' kit as the slang goes, is to provide an on-body back-up system to items usually found in a pack or otherwise found on the body. A hiking pack is, when you look at the categories it contains and the contents, a survival kit one relies on for living outside of society. It just doesn't have that fancy emergency purpose. The beauty of those tin-kits is that it gives you an extra layer of gear if all else fails. It is by nature the last thing keeping you from having to 'Go Macgyver' with nothing but your brain and the environment. Can the tin function as a mobile emergency room? No, even a loaded ambulance is an inferior care system, as is some major hospitals when faced with the worst case.

A compass can keep some one from making a giant circle, wandering with no direction or orientation.
A tiny LED can allow for movement and functioning at night, makes signaling and emergency response much, much easier.
A lighter or matches creates fire, ultimate source of heat, a powerful signaling tool, and a psychological boost of security and component of food preparation, even water purification.
A knife creates shelter, food, tools, and tasks in general easier.
A whistle is a near-ideal signaling tool, emergency device, and animal deterrent.

I just pulled these survival basics, out of a cinnamon Altoids tin I had lying around on my desk. If all I had were the clothes on my back, this kit, and my brain...I'd still be able to come home.
How are these micro-kits comical, again? Besides the fact they're candy tins, of course.

Yes, but which aliens. *stroking beard* Some are actually hives of specialized spores, similiar in concept to a portugeuse man of war or coral, held together by static charge- bullets won't bother them, but an air compressor and a good bottle will ruin their day, or a leaf blower or large fan. So will dryer sheets, if you have to go hand to hand.

But who would be that prepared? Firearms, flamethrower, crossbow, swords and axes, oaken stakes, paintballs filled with everything from holy water to olive oil to bread mold, those are all common items in the survival arsenal. But no one includes dryer sheets.

*grins*

I don't use an Altoids tin, but use a small Tupperware container about 1/2 larger than an Altoids tin. I keep about a dozen items in it to cover fire starting, small pocket knife, fishing kit, water purification, needles and carpet thread, 10' of strong multipurpose cordage, emergency whistle, signal mirror, button compass, AAA flashlight, fine point tweezer, minibic and waterproof matches, flint and steel. It's handy, fits in cargo pocket, backpack, etc.

I'm frequently in the woods hiking and fishing, so I like to be prepared. I also keep a few food items and diabetes testing kit and extra medication in my backpack. It wouldn't do to have a diabetic episode in the woods alone.

My kit can handle all of the primary needs. I have read too many stories about people who get themselves in trouble or hurt without so much as a pack of matches in their pocket.
I almost never go anywhere without an Arcteryx daypack, which also holds a substantial first aid and trauma kit. I am a former medic and have many items most people would not have in a kit. Too many people rely on small bandaides and that's all.

And I'm never without a substantial folding knife or fixed blade nearby that can create a shelter.

The bottom line is knowing that I have a small pocket kit I can rely on while the man on the tv is trying to ceate a fish hook out of a piece glass he found.

Of course, some of us know how to make our own dryer sheets on the spur of the moment...

-Blast

You are a better man than I. I gave up about halfway through the nonsense.

To me, an Altoids kit (I currently use tobacco tins, but am in process of moving to BCB Mini-mess-tins!) are "Better than nothing" kits.
You could even carry a tin with a knife & firelighting kit in it & that would be better than nothing.

Im sure many of us carry most (if not ALL) of the items that youd find in a kit, anyway, so the kit is just an emergency duplication.

My own kit(s) are geared towards staying warm & dry & being found, so, as well as the ubiquitous knife, several methods of firelighting, shelter (space blanket/paracord/bin liner), & signalling (mirror & whistle) feature heavily.

Admittedly, I DO carry a small fishing kit (Ive NEVER, EVER caught a fish, even with a fishing rod!), but I doubt if Id ever be in a survival situation that would need it.
Aluminium foil, & a cpl of stock cubes to make a warming drink would be of far more use in the (more likely in the UK) sceanario of a night in the hills after a fall or injury.

My priorities are PROTECTION, LOCATION, WATER, FOOD.

I usually have three tins packed at any one time, 2 carried on various jaunts & one that I call my "training tin", the trainer is slightly bigger, not as nicely packed as the kit is used regularly to practice firelighting, shelter building etc.

You begin by defining the word "definition." Your implication is that people are not being "honest" with themselves or others when they refer to the accumulated gear in an Altoids tin as a "survival kit" because it cannot encompass all survival situations. With all due respect, the word (not the phrase) you really needed to define was "survival."

From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary - survival: 1 a: the act or fact of living or continuing longer than another person or thing b: the continuation of life or existence.

The long lists of gear on the pages preceding this response, and the careful thought and consideration that has been put into the assembly of that gear, would seem to me to provide an individual with a better chance of "living longer than another person or thing" in adverse conditions. Accordingly, your conclusion that "the “Altoids Tin Survival Kit” has no place in society" is faulty. The real conclusion should be that the Altoids Tin Survival Kit cannot ensure an individual's survival in every instance, but it can increase a person's chances of survival.

By the way, I enjoy the agitators on this board (very much including you TQS). The conversation never gets stagnant and everyone is pushed to reevaluate and rethink what they "already know."

Bingo!

Who would be that prepared?
Well, as it happens............
And a T-Shirt that says "Earth is mine. Go home."

Duckear,

Nonsense is as nonsense was.

Gee, I uh...I dunno. Maybe there is more to it than I originally thought. You sound upset, and my intention was not to upset, but merely to share that I think the size of the vessel must be determined by its contents, (rosary or otherwise, I guess, as I'm not Catholic, or of any other religion, as I do not seek Christ in religion, but in Christ), not the other way around.
My survival kit is my belt kit, and nothing will separate me from that. It has a sheath knife with a sharpener in the sheath pouch, a canteen w/ cup with water tablets in the canteen pouch, and a belt pouch with the other items necessary to ensure survival is a distinct possibility. I chose the size of the pouch after I assembled all the items with a little extra room to keep things loose enough for ease of accessibility in an emergency.
My backpack is my expedition kit, and carries nothing essential to survival, unless geography specific items are necessary that won't fit in my belt pouch, such as extra water in the desert, or an axe in the north woods. Barring the last exception, my expedition kit (backpack) exists only to further my enjoyment of the outdoors, as all basic survival situations are covered by my belt kit (survival kit).
Bear...? DeMille..? I don't know these people. I'm only an Earthling.

A large animal skin, a large stick, a sharp rock, and their brains.

If our ancestors could survive the ice age with these items, then anyone with any experience outdoors could figure out how to survive with the contents of an altoid kit if they had to.

The key is to have the basic knowledge that'll allow you to utilize what you have. No amount of gear will save you if you don't know how to use it.

Very true. With a little common sense, and knowledge, a Altoids Tin Kit, or the AMK PSK; along with a good knife can go a long way to keeping someone alive.

IMHO...

I hope I'm not stepping on toes here... but if your "Altoid Kit" can't provide for you in an emergency, then you need to change what you put in the kit!

If you think about the "Rules of 3" You can (with a minimal amount of knowledge and training (which I assume most here have or are gaining) get along with only a few items. These are the things that your kit should provide for you.

#1 - A Good folding knife
#2 - A small photon light
#3 - A Incendiary device (best would be a spark thrower like a Couglan or Doan's Magnesium/Ferro Rod.
#4 - Something to carry water in (A condom or smallish trash bag) I personally carry a quart breast milk bag which rolls up very small and is far stronger than either of the other options mentioned.
#5 - Some kind of "cordage" for quick fixes.
#6 - A few fish hooks and 40 foot of heavy line. It weighs nothing and doesn't take up any space. It certainly can be beneficial.
#7 - A few good antibiotic band-aids.


That's all you HAVE to have to survive. With these items you can do most anything necessary. Anything else is redundant, which is ok if you have the room, but definitely not necessary. For example, you don't need a razor blade if you have a good sharp knife. Needles probably won't be needed in a true "survival situation" but if they were, they could be replaced by a straightened fishhook. You wouldn't really need snare wire, since in all likelihood you aren;t going to be lost long enough to starve (and you can catch fish with the hooks in the kit). Most people can figure out how to stay dry in a downpour, but if it makes you feel more comfortable carry 1 or 2 large Garbage bags (I personally do). You probably won't need a compass in a true "survival situation" since you probably won't have a map of the area and basic directions are all that you will need. I could go on, but I think you get the drift.

Again, with the items listed above, you can meet all your emergency needs (Shelter, Water, & Fire). And in my opinion that is the purpose of a micro kit. Many people put things in their kits because others do. But remember, kits are highly personal. Only put in it what YOU need, and what YOU know how to utilize. And as the old adage says, don't include it if it doesn't fulfil at least 2 or 3 purposes.

- Soarn

Quite a few people feel that a mag/ferro bar is less than adequate for fire starting. I personally have had mixed results. A strong wind blowing, for example, will have those shavings of magnesium scattered everywhere. But better than nothing for sure...

I think that most people imagine "their" survival situation as being one that will not pose that much of a real threat to their life. I'm not sure why people do this. Maybe it is because they feel or believe that if it is in their kit then they will have to use it, and so they somehow avoid the more serious situations by carrying band-aids instead of an emergency field pressure dressing, for example. I can honestly tell you that if it only requires a band-aid, it is not life-threatening, and should not be considered a survival situation, and that is why there are none in my survival kit. I know there are execptions to every "rule", but for the most part what I am saying rings true. As far as I can remember, band-aids are to keep children screaming "Mommy!" from thinking they are going to bleed to death from their first minor bleeder or scratch, and they are effective at that. The infection issue is not something that concerns me since I will anticipate my survival situation as probably being typical in that I will be rescued or find my way "out" in less than a week, and not forgetting, it is only a scratch, so even if it does get infected, I know it won't kill me. Ha Ha Ha!

I guess the next obvious question is for me to ask, "How do you know what YOU need?" As far as I can tell, I don't exactly know, as I can't always "see" the future. Well, this means that I am not going to assume that my next survival situation is going to be an "ideal" situation requiring a mere band-aid. I don't think any true survival situation is.
So, I will include items that address immediate life-saving first aid needs, rescue, and immediate subsistence needs, in that order.
If I find that I have survived the car-crash off the road in the mountains, but that my arm is bleeding heavily, I will be glad that I am conscious due to the fact that I wore my seatbelt, and also that I have a field dressing in my "Altoids Tin". Oh, wait, I forgot, those don't fit in Altoids Tins. I guess I better not bring one then, as I'm sure my band-aid will suffice. Ha Ha Ha!

I have found the shavings to be useful, but a lot of work comparatively. I would rather spend that energy preparing a finer tinder. Firecraft is all about prep work. There are no short-cuts, even though "it" always seems to suggest otherwise.
Although, the magnesium shavings can be kept from blowing away if you remember to build a decent windshield. The reflector that is part of every campfire that functions at maximum efficiency should suffice.
I personally believe that magnesium shavings are an insult to expert firecrafting, but their usefulness in a dire situation will always be debated, remembering that "insult is always preferable to injury."

Bmo,
You wrote, "With all due respect, the word (not the phrase) you really needed to define was "survival.""

I respond by sharing the first part of the first paragraph of my book that I have been working on intermittently for the past decade, and which will probably take that much longer to finish. I am no "expert", nor do I consider my opinions to be necessarily true for anyone but myself, but since you expressed an interest in what my definition of survival might otherwise be, I will share this much:

(This is of course only a rough draft)

SURVIVAL

Survival: [(sur- < Fr. < L. super- = above, beyond, more than, over, upon,) + (viv < L. vivus = alive, life, living) + (-al < L. = action of, belonging to, characterized by, like, of the kind of, pertaining to, process of, relating to)].

Survival is that systematic state of mind and body that is expressive of a state of existence that is one step beyond death. An individual is alive because that individual has survived up until the present moment, and is not presently accompanied or influenced by any known factor that is sure to result in that individual’s death. Survival is usually thought of as a state of being that is base and temporary and exists only until all the basic physical and mental needs have been met to the point that other activities that are usually associated with “living” can begin.

OBG...

I never use the shavings.. so I wouldn't know about that... I prefer Cattail, Milkweed, Goatsbeard, or other "natural fluff", cotton (which I carry), or punk wood easily found that will readily accept the spark.

TQS...

We are talking here about an Altoid Tin...

I didn't say that you shouldn't carry more. However, in order to prepare for every possible thing that could happen you would have to tow a tractor trailer behind you. That's why I teach.. and stated above that you have to know how to use what you have. And you need to own your skills.

You're "scenario" above is quite possible. So it might be good to answer your dilemna. If ALL that I had was my "Altoid Tin" and you had your altoid tin and a field dressing.. we are both in about the same boat. If severely bleeding, as you posted, you have probably severed the brachial artery, or a branch thereof. Of course my bandaid won't stop the bleeding... Neither will your field dressing. If you notice in my above post I stated that I carry antibiotic bandaids. Thus I have a wee bit of protection in them once i stop the bleeding.

Now obviously, I would pull out my full field FAK. But we weren't talking about that. And since we weren't talking about mini or maxi kits (which are also in my car right next to me) I won't use my bandanas as compression dressings. I will, instead, think outside the box. I was not driving naked to the local nudist colony, so I have a cotton T-Shirt on, and probably another pullover or button down over it. So I will take out my neck knife, which thankfully hasn't opened in the crash and skewered my heart (Or I would have had to use the other band-aid) I cut the cotton T-Shirt into a strip and roll it into a compression bandage. Since it is long I can tie it around my arm and effectively stop (or at least slow the bleeding for the time being)... How am I doing?

I think you get my point. We were talking about micro kits.. not full fledged field kits. Obviously I wouldn't purposely go into a possible "situation" without more unless I desired to. And for the "band-aid" record... I don't use them for most cuts (Unless it is on my 3 or 5 year old). Rather... for something deep that won't stop bleeding (severe knife cut.. etc) I would cut them into 3 lengthwise pieces (So instead of 2 or 3 bandaids I have 9 or 10 "butterfly closures").

Hope that clears up any misunderstanding

- Soarn

Mugwort is one of my favorite tinders. It works beautifully with friction fires, such as the hand drill and the bow drill.

I'm not trying to prepare for every situation, just the very basics (immediate basic life-saving first aid needs, rescue, and immediate subsistence needs). I don't need a trailer for those, only a belt pouch that is about 10x the size of an Altoids Tin. It really isn't all that big comparatively. I'm not talking about carrying road flare firestarters, heart defibrillators, and SBCA CBRN respirators.

With regards to the bleeding scenario, we just have a differing opinion concerning materials effectiveness and importance placed on timing.

TQS...

Thanks for your kind reply And I doubt that we have much, if any, difference of opinion.

I absolutely agree with you friend. I don't carry an "Altoid Tin" since I ALWAYS carry my mini with me EVERYWHERE that I go. It is never more than 100 yards from me... EVER (100 yrds would mean that I am in the back of Wally World perusing the newest Gerber or Shrade blade)

You can find my "Mini Roll" on the "Ditch Kit" thread. Weighing less than 6 pounds total (2 kits.. I only showed one.. the other is a military field kit bag with some FAK and other preps) it isn't too hard to keep by my side.

As for fire capabilities.. I am a pyro... I am extremely proficient at bow drill (less than 15 secs to coal), proficient at hand drill (4 to 5 passes) (my fav hand drill is "Equinus Canadensis" (locally called "Horseweed") on Cedar or Sycamore), Extremely profient at Flint/Spark throwing, Extremely proficient at Magnifying glass (usually less than 5-10 seconds to flame once the tinder is prepared). And... I can also use a lighter But here at the base camp (home) I have a fire going almost all the time. IF I lose my coal (such as in the heavy rain we had last night) my favorite "wilderness" firestarting method is to lay out my wood... Pour a 1/2 cup gas (unleaded type) on the wood, and throw a match from 10 foot Works every time! For the record for those not familiar with this technique.. NEVER throw gas on an already lit fire!!!

- Soarn

An Altoid tin can't contain bulky items such as a shelter, food and drink. Part of the idea is that the tin provides tools to help you acquire those things from the environment.

The emphasis is on items which are hard to improvise. For example, there's no real substitute for light, and if it's pitch dark it's hard to improvise a torch from found materials, or to do anything else, really. Hence a small photon light in the PSK. There should also be a knife, cordage, something to start a fire, and means to carry water, because those things, while possible to improvise in the wild, can be really tricky or time consuming.

True. But I often fold a space blanket or disposable poncho up - and guess what - they fit in a pocket that would take an altoids tin. And wrapping yourself in a space blanket is a lot easier than trying to whip up a lean-to under pressure.

Shelter is the big short coming in most psks, but actually, the bare minimum is easy to take.

(As an aside - I use my edc odds and ends all the time - not to survive airplane crashes or teotwawki, but the more usual mini-crises that plague us - a snapped bootlace out walking or a gashed knuckle at work. Survival doesn't have to mean disasters, and a stitch in time....)