Fenix flashlights?

Anybody have any experience with Fenix brand LED flashlights? What did you think of them? http://www.fenix-store.com/

Jeff

I keep three AA lights available, a 4xAA UK eLED, a 1xAA Gerber Infinity Ultra and a Fenix L2D CE, one of the new Fenix lights using Cree LED's. It's a quality light, with multiple settings from low(9 lumens) to really high(135 lumens), SOS and strobe. The Fenix could probably do the job of either of the other two lights although the Gerber is smaller and the UK has a great runtime with its 4 AA batteries. The Fenix is a great light though. For the money I'd buy the Gerber in a 1xAA size. Once you size up to the 2xAA the Fenix gets more worthy of the price tag. YMMV

I got an L2D-CE, and an E1 and love them both. If you feel like spending the money they're hard to beat. The best part in my opinion is that most of their lights use common AA and AAA batteries. There's a gazillion threads on CPF forums on fenix lights. Hope that helps.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/

Fenix makes the L2D in single AA. They also sell just the body tube. IIRC its about $12 for the body. Its about the same diameter as the Infinity before Gerber got hold of the design & a little longer. It will handle the job of both of the other two and also replace a Surefire E2 on normal high. Run time for the L1 is advertised as 25 hrs on low.

I thought the L1D CE was the 1xAA version. My point is that in that size the Gerber Infinity Ultra at $21.95 is a better buy than the Fenix L1D CE at $55.50. Considering that the L2D CE is only $1 more, the L1D is overpriced IMO. YMMV

I have one (L0D, I think), it runs on the CR 123 batteries that Surefire does. Since I have an E1 Surefire as well, I feel the Fenix is a more versatile light, and fairly robust. More variation with lighting options, longer battery life, brighter. But, on hi power, the Fenix does heat up quite a bit, so the point where you could probably use it in a pinch to ward off some frostbite

I am thinking about picking up a Fenix P2D Premium, max light is supposedly 185 lumens, six times my Surefire E2L which cost me double. Seems like an excellent deal.

I want to get a Fenix Digital L2D CE to replace my Pelican M6 LED. I really like the idea of moving from CR 123s to AA cells and from a 1watt to the variable output cree .I've read so many great things about Fenix Lights on cnadlepower forums it seems like the right move.

I have an L2D-CE and an L1T/L2T. They are solid lights, in my opinion. Good battery life (esp. the Cree LED ... amazing). They like NiMH rechargeables. And the multi-mode options let me switch from "max batt life and preserve my night vision" to "pocket blowtorch to identify the unknown animal in my yard" in half a second.

CandlePowerForums.com is a good source of information. So is FlashlightReviews.com, even though they are only semi-active now.

The finish on the Fenix lights is slippery. Wrap some friction tape around the center; you'll be glad you did. Also note that the pocket clips from a MiniMagLite will fit on the AA versions, though it takes some doing to get them on.

First I'll point out that Fenix is a Chinese company, not US. It matters to some people.

Also, I don't think Fenix-Store is affiliated with Fenix - I think it's a retailer that just picked that name. But, they do have a good reputation. http://www.lighthound.com/ is another good retailer.

The Fenix lights have good output and reliability for the price. My biggest concern from an "emergency" or ETS perspective is waterproofing an durability/ruggedness. An emergency light needs to work, even if it's cold & rainy, even if it gets dropped on concrete, even if it gets dropped in a puddle. And it may need to work even if you've forgotten to change batteries in a couple of years in your kit.

Probably the best small emergency light today is the NovaTac. Waterproof to 100' as I recall, and a proven rugged design based on the HDS EDC. Probably the only downside is that it uses a single CR123 battery and changing the battery in a wet environment (emergency at sea) might require some inventiveness. But that's true for any battery and light.

Keep in mind that LED flashlights vary considerably in beam shape even if they use the same LED. Some are "throw" specialists that can light up targets 100' feet away but have such a narrow beam as to be useless when looking for a screw dropped on the ground. Others have a broad "spot" and considerable "spill", great for walking a trail but not much help beyond 50'.

The 1 watt, 3 watt and 5 watt Luxeon LEDs work fine but are older technology and not efficient. Cree and SCC are newer and much more efficient - a Cree or SSC at 3 watts is putting out more light than a Luxeon 5 watt. The new kid on the block is the Luxeon Rebel LED which is the most efficient as I write this. Efficiency means longer run times as well as brighter output.

I would select an emergency/ETS light based on what you want it to do. Does it need to have a runtime that supports reading or trail walking all night on one set of batteries? Are you going to have to search for trail markers at a distance? Will you be on water, or in an extreme cold environment? Are you caving or such where failure of all light is catastrophic?

My pocket light is a NovaTac 120P. All of my emergency lights are Surefire, with a C3 & 1 watt LED in the car and a couple of G2 incandescents in the house. I keep a pack of a dozen spare CR123 batteries in the car and in the house. I have a couple of Fenix lights as workbench lights.

PS. For extreme cold environments keep in mind that AA batteries generally perform poorly (except perhaps Lithium AA). If the light needs to work reliably below 0F consider a light using CR123 batteries or some other Lithium battery.

Good points, James. It's important to identify the most extreme situation you will reasonably face, and match your light to it.

Fenix lights are "dunk proof" and that's about it. I wash them in the sink, but wouldn't rely on one for life raft use.

I also think that, in a critical situation, a backup light is always a good idea.

BTW: In my experience, AA lights that use LEDs are surprisingly useful, even in very cold temperatures. The output drops, of course; but snow is very reflective, and even a low-output LED does a remarkable job. It helps to keep the light in a protected inner pocket when not in use. (It's also quite a shock when you return it to that pocket after a stint in the cold -- yikes.)

I'll second most of what James V A said. The ability to use lithium batteries is important if you're going to depend on the flashlight. They'll work in hot and cold extremes that will kill a regular battery. The looooong shelf life is another plus.

I'll also second the NovaTac recommendation. I have an HDS U60 that is one of my favorite lights. I use it regularly (5 to 10 minutes 5 days a week) and get 6 to 8 months out of a single battery.

Something else to keep in mind is the wild lumen claims from most flashlight manufacturers. Surefire, Arc, and Novatac (that I can think of right now) are the only lights that are rated with lumens out the front. If you have a Surefire that claims it's putting out 60 lumens, it's putting out 60 lumens that you're seeing after exiting the lens. Most everybody elses lumen claims are at the peak efficiency of the LED before transmission losses through the lens and an extra pinch of exaggeration. An example is my Arc AAA-P that is rated for 5.5 lumens that is slightly brighter than another light I have that claims 20 lumens and as bright as one that claims 25 lumens.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I ended up ordering a 1AAA Rebel and a IAA Rebel with an extra 2AA tube.

Jeff

One thing I forgot to mention. At Target, there's a Rock River Light that's claiming 30-40 lumens on the package. Runs on one AA, seems fairly robust for $20. As much as I use it, I wish I'd bought it instead of my Surefire. Carried well, it's in my go-bag right now, though it might get moved. I don't normally EDC a light except on a Photon on my keychain, but this is probably one I would, due to brightness and ease of battery replacement.

I've never heard of the Rebel flashlights, do you have a link?

Edit: Found it, I assume you bought Fenix L0D and L1D lights with Rebel LEDs. Nice lights.

Good choices. Between AA and AAA, the battery tubes, and the multiple output of these lights, you have a flexible lighting system there with easily obtainable batteries. Fenix is an established brand among the flashlight crowd, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Fenix light for general purpose use. And you're on the cutting edge of flashlight technology with these models that use the Rebel emitter. Enjoy your new lights!

i personally still got mine original L1P, which i have been carring for over 2 years now on mine belt. It has got wet, dirty, dropped, even the finish is starting to show a little wear, but it has always worked.

I have had flashlights with selectible mode's, CREE led's, even a Luxeon Rebel led, but i somehow still keep on carrying and using mine L1p.

I have the Fenix P1D CE LED flashlight that uses a single CR123A lithium battery. Its light output is simply stunning, especially compared to its small size.

I never could have imagined I'd spend $65 for a flashlight, but the reviews for this light were so positive I had to see one for myself. It absolutely blows my EDC Arc Premium single AAA flightlight away.

I liked it so much that I bought a second one to go on our barn keychain that we use when going to and from our barn. My wife is often out there in the dark - kind of nervous about it - and this tiny flashlight sends an impressive beam of light. It has got to be tough to withstand the abuse it gets on that keychain.

I bought both of them from http://www.brightguy.com , but they say the light is currently out of stock.

For me the Fenix is a backup light as my primary light is a Princeton Tec EOS headlamp - another mighty impressive light that I HIGHLY recommend. Its currently on sale at brightguy.com for $27.50.

Ken K.

I still like the simplicity of the Peak and Arc 1xAAA LED lights and Gerber Ultra Infinity 1xAA -- On/Off is nice, no need to think about it.

The Gerber Ultra Infinity is what I usually go to because it's small and convenient; the UK 4AAeLED is available if I need more output. The UK (Underwater Kinetics) is waterproof to 10' and is UL Class I Div 2 rated for use in hazardous locations. These lights together cost less than the Fenix.

The Fenix L2D CE I bought sits in my EDC backpack virtually unused.

I've got a Fenix L1D-CE. I'd take a Fenix over a SureFire anyday..

So would I, but none of the lights I mentioned are Surefire.

I know. It was just a general comment, not specifically to your reply.

Cool. Surefire makes good tactical lights, but not the best for long term survival applications. Standard batteries, LED bulbs and lower power settings are needed much more than a blinding light.

I've got the M6 in incandescent. You will like the difference. Being able to change the brightness is nice. It also has a slightly smaller form factor. I've been looking for the right light for about 10 years, especially after they started putting good LEDs in them. Surefire, Pelican, Maglights, Photons, & knock-offs of all these lost to the Fenix. Unless I find one with MSHA approval or need to put a light somewhere (dome light in the trunk of the car) I've quit looking after getting the L2D CE Fenix and a 1 AA body to go with it. If I need more than dunkable from it, I can always wrap with electrical or duct tape.

Alkaline AA vs. Lithium CR123 batteries:

For daily use Alkaline AA batteries are cheaper than Lithium CR123 and most people will be better off with AA if their Every-Day-Carry light is also their emergency light.

But I do not agree that “standard batteries” are an advantage for long term survival applications. If you can stop by the store and pick up more batteries you're not in a survival situation. Alkaline AAs are a compromise to save money, not a functional improvement.

If a separate emergency kit with a light is maintained then Lithium CR123 is a better choice. Lights using CR123 can be smaller and lighter than AA lights. But the big factor is performance: a CR123 light will still have 80% of capacity after 10 years, and a CR123 self-discharges far slower than Alkaline AA batteries in heat and retains much higher capacity in cold environments. A CR123 light will also generally be brighter than an Alkaline AA since a CR123 supplies twice the voltage and much more power than an Alkaline AA.

I recommend that any dedicated emergency flashlight use CR123 batteries in order to be sure it will work (and will not have leaked!) when needed, even if your kit is years overdue for inspection & replenishment, even if your kit is stored in an extremely hostile thermal environment such as a car.

Fenix vs. Surefire:

Fenix has a better brightness per dollar cost ratio than Surefire and Fenix does make some AA lights. But I don't think there's any real debate after handling both that Surefire is more rugged and dependable in harsh environments and under rough handling (I have and use several examples of both brands).

My philosophy is that emergency gear must take care of itself. Normally when I drop a light outdoors I pick it right up and wipe off any moisture. But if a light falls out of my pocket into a puddle during an emergency it may have to stay there a long time while I deal with other more-pressing problems ... and it had better work when I do get back to it. I'm not going to be able to spend the time and attention coddling gear that I might normally do at home even though it's much more important that nothing fails in an emergency.

Fenix makes more sense for most people to use as a daily light. But for a dedicated emergency light that might face rough/poor handling I believe Surefire is a better choice when the budget allows. And for institutions with a “Buy American” preference Fenix is Chinese and Surefire is American.

Other:

The Streamlight 4AA has MSHA approval for use in gassy (methane only) mine environments. Their “Survivor” will likely too at some point given the obvious design goals but it isn't listed yet. Pelican may also have MSHA-approved lights.

The Surefire M6 is the most powerful handheld light I know of short of a HID and is top quality. I was testing one last night against some cutting-edge Q5 Cree lights and none were close to touching it. That may change next year once the S-bin Cree LED ships: LEDs will then have the throw of an M6 and a 3-LED light will have the overall power. But right now the M6 is the king (and costs a king's ransom!).

I think that the Surefire M6 with the standard MN20 lamp assembly with give around 250 Lumen for around 1 hr using 6 CR123s. The replacement MN21 (not sure whether this is a Xe or HID lamp assembly) will give 500 Lumen for 20 minutes again using up 6 CR123s. The brightest Fenix is currently the P3D using a Lumileds Rebel giving 200 Lumen for 1.8 Hours using up 2 CR123s. The Fenix is 4 time more efficient is also 10 times cheaper and quarter the size and weight of the M6.

Or how about the Microfire Warrior III K3500R giving 3500 Lumen for over 50 minutes using a rechargable lithium ion cell. It is only slightly larger and heavier (12 oz) than the Surefire M6 and not that much more expensive. This will beat the Surefire M6 hands down.

Around here I have lights by Surefire and a dozen CR123 batteries, in a drawer, never used. The one Surefire light that isn't stored is the X-200 LED weaponlight that stays in my range bag with the Glock.

By standard batteries I mean size, not chemistry; chemistry is always improving performance. For my AA flashlights and radios I picked up a sleeve of 36 AA coppertops at Cosco to supplement my NiMH rechargeable batteries. Needs change though so I use the alkalines and save the cycles on the NiMH for when they're needed. I have a couple solar battery chargers, but why use them now in suburbia with the electricity still flowing.

The dozen or so lithium AA's I bought are still in their packaging. I bought them for extreme environments and have a set in my kits with the flashlights they'll go in. Meanwhile, those flashlights are loaded with alkalines because the temps here are not extreme.

I think the point I'm making is that standard batteries come in different chemistries with different capabilities. The NiMH are for when the supplies stop and I switch to the sun.

The three AA lights (Fenix L2D CE, UK 4xAA eLED and the Gerber Ultra Infinity) are all regulated. Small voltage differences between the different battery types is accounted for and they can all run all three types of AA batteries. The UK light loses its UL rating when loaded with lithiums, but unless the casing is cracked and I'm in a hazardous/flammable environment it doesn't matter. So what I have are lights that run on batteries readily available on a supermarket shelf.

As for Surefires being more rugged, that's probably true, however even in their LED format they have fairly short runtimes with a set of batteries because they are primarily tactical lights. If Surefire would sell an LED light that had the output flexibility of the Fenix L2D CE it would be a winner. I'd buy one and even stock more CR123's to keep it running. If you compare the light output/runtime of a Surefire L-2 ( scroll down for L-2 runtime plots) and a Fenix L2D CE, ( scroll down to L2D CE runtime plots) you'll see why the L2D CE is a great flashlight compared to even the Surefire L-2. Notice how flat the Fenix plot is? That's great voltage regulation. 22 lumens from an Ultra Infinity is plenty for many applications and it can run 25 hours on a single AA alkaline.

Bottom line is that the flashlights I find useful run on AA's.

Comparing CR123's to Alkaline AA's is comparing apples to bananas. CR123's to Lithium AA's would be a much better matchup.

For enlightenment:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/


Cheers, TR

Folks over on CPF rave over them. Maybe I got two duds but I bought two (one for my wife and another for me). They both went down in a couple of weeks. I sent an email to the company and was given a fix for the problem. A week later it went down again. I threw it in a box and have not touched it since.

Bisc.

I have a P2D Premium. What an awesome light. The only problem that I can see is that this thing is so small, it could be easy to lose, though it comes with a nice wrist-strap. This is not a belt light. It's definitely a pocket light.

Yes, as I said Fenix has a better brightness per cost ratio. But, the M6 has far output than even that Fenix in my testing. Should an M6 be part of any emergency kit? No, but I can see it being in the rescuer's kit in some cases (when someone else pays the bills).

Also keep in mind that “lumens” can't be compared between Surefire and Fenix since they are measuring different things: it's apples to oranges. That Fenix is about 160 lumens per Surefire's methods and the M6 would be over 700 lumens per Fenix's methods (Fenix doesn't actually measure output but rather computes it from LED and power supply specs). Nothing wrong with either method; just noting that they are quite different.


Not if it doesn't work when you need it. My experience with HIDs is that they are relatively fragile and need careful handling compared to other emergency gear. You can't drop a HID 3' onto rock and expect it to work (Surefire Beast is an exception). There are a lot of other variables between HIDs that are relevant to emergency use; it's harder to analyze HIDs for this use than it is other lights.

I can't pull up the Microfire K3500R web page right now – I just get a page of Chinese glyphs that appear to be an error message. Last I heard this light wasn't actually out yet?

I have a Wolf-Eyes Boxer 10W/123 which I keep in my car's glove compartment when not in use. It is all of 6.3”(!) long and uses “standard” CR123 batteries (“standard” meaning the same as my other lights and the same as my emergency battery stash). Another interesting HID I've owned is that Underwater Kinetics LC-100, a 10W HID dive-light that works in air too. It uses eight C cells and has other disadvantages but I can see some people might have a use for it in as a lake emergency light.


I agree this is reasonable. Another possibility might be the Sanyo Eneloop NiHM - rechargeable yet a long shelf life (over a year). I'm not familiar with them.


I was interpreting other's comments in the context of Alkaline cells. That may not have been a good assumption.


I haven't noticed any trend in posted problems with Fenix, other than the tail switch. Most of their problems seem to be in the switch. Overall they don't seem better or worse than other manufacturers.

To give background to my opinions, I'm not impressed by lumens any more. Anyone can build a bright flashlight. If that's the goal then I'd go to Hong Kong retailers like http://www.dealextreme.com/ or http://www.kaidomain.com/ and get the same lumens as Fenix for half the price. It's things other than lumens that seem to separate the good from the bad these days, especially in terms of emergency use.

For emergency use my priority is having a light I can trust. That simple UK 4xAAeLED (the old design w/o zoom) gives a nice flood which provides plenty of light over a long period. It uses the old luxeon LED which UK chose to underdrive -- longer life, less heat, easier on batteries. I have one in each kit.

Thanks again for all the input. My flashlights arrived [L0D AAAx1 with Rebel LED, in natural; L1D AAx1 with Rebel LED, in black; spare L2D body tube; L2D belt holster; white diffuser cap; and red lens filter] and I'd like to share a few unscientific impressions:

Overall fit, finish and construction quality are excellent. They both 1ook and feel well-made. Aesthetically, I personally prefer the "natural" over the black finish. Needless to say, both are very bright. This makes the multiple dimming options nearly essential. The rapid strobe is a real attention-getter, but the gimmicky SOS mode flashes so slowly as to be unrecognizable.

Fenix holsters are an open top, cordura-type with elastic side panels and a closed slide-on belt loop of about 2" or so. I'd prefer a closing flap, but I have to admit they do retain the flashlight very well, at least with new elastic.

The diffuser works well to make the flashlight a reading or small-area light. The red filter fits well and doesn't dim the light much, which is a good thing.

Jeff

Thanks for the info on the diffuser & filter. Those & the Rebel LED came out after I go the L2D CREE.